[Game] Kings v. Timberwolves - Thursday, Dec. 26 - 7PT/10ET
- Thread starter VF21
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This Kings team and organization is utterly pathetic:
- Vlade is inept;
- Walton is clueless;
- There is no winning leadership;
- Barnes, Hield, and Dedmon are all overpaid stiffs;
- Bagley gets hurt rolling out of bed;
- There is no coherent offensive scheme;
- Besides Fox, Joseph, and Holmes - the team is made up of a bunch of mental weaklings.
You can forget about the playoffs, folks - this whole group, virtually top to bottom, is a disgraceful bunch of losers.
They have no concept of toughness, grit, or coming through in the clutch, because that takes GUTS and fearlessness - something this motley bunch will NEVER achieve.
In summary, it’s a disgraceful assemblage of incapable players that dishonors the loyal fans.
- Vlade is inept;
- Walton is clueless;
- There is no winning leadership;
- Barnes, Hield, and Dedmon are all overpaid stiffs;
- Bagley gets hurt rolling out of bed;
- There is no coherent offensive scheme;
- Besides Fox, Joseph, and Holmes - the team is made up of a bunch of mental weaklings.
You can forget about the playoffs, folks - this whole group, virtually top to bottom, is a disgraceful bunch of losers.
They have no concept of toughness, grit, or coming through in the clutch, because that takes GUTS and fearlessness - something this motley bunch will NEVER achieve.
In summary, it’s a disgraceful assemblage of incapable players that dishonors the loyal fans.
I don’t think Buddy will figure it out. Likeable guy and when his stroke is on it’s amazing to watch. But I’m curious if the coaches are trying to have him do stuff that’s he’s not capable of, as opposed to doing what we see BMac do with the Rockets which is 100% spot up 3s. If the coaching staff is testing to see if he can crate his own shot, I think it is 100% clear by now that he can’t. We have a very expensive Ben Mclemore
First, why do the KINGS always have the most fragile, injury prone players in the league? None of their supposed building block players can run from here to there without collapsing.
Secondly, I never want to see Buddy Hield advancing the ball up court ever again. Never.
As soon as I saw him with the ball on the last possession, I knew the game was done. One of three outcomes is bound to happen. He dribbles the clock out, turns it over because his handles suck or forces up an off balance shot trying to be the hero. It was outcome 3 tonight.
If any player is going to slowly and nonchalantly dribble the ball up court to selfishly chuck the last shot without a pass whatsoever, they better get a much better look that that.
Dude suffers from myopia and believes he’s Kobe Bryant. He just can’t be trusted to make the right play.
Great job losing at home to a team that had previously lost 11 consecutive and were w/o their best player.
For the past week or so I’ve been right back where I was after the 0-5 start — barely caring at all. This game cemented it for me. This team just can’t play. Can’t score. Can’t win consistently.
Worst of all they just aren’t any fun to watch.
Secondly, I never want to see Buddy Hield advancing the ball up court ever again. Never.
As soon as I saw him with the ball on the last possession, I knew the game was done. One of three outcomes is bound to happen. He dribbles the clock out, turns it over because his handles suck or forces up an off balance shot trying to be the hero. It was outcome 3 tonight.
If any player is going to slowly and nonchalantly dribble the ball up court to selfishly chuck the last shot without a pass whatsoever, they better get a much better look that that.
Dude suffers from myopia and believes he’s Kobe Bryant. He just can’t be trusted to make the right play.
Great job losing at home to a team that had previously lost 11 consecutive and were w/o their best player.
For the past week or so I’ve been right back where I was after the 0-5 start — barely caring at all. This game cemented it for me. This team just can’t play. Can’t score. Can’t win consistently.
Worst of all they just aren’t any fun to watch.
This game maybe the worst basketball I’ve seen, with the Spurs game not far behind. The biggest issue I see if we have no post threat that can command a double team. Barnes was that before Bagley came back, and Bagley was doing pretty well early in the game before he decided to chuck up 3s and then got hurt. Barnes is mired in a major slump and is not getting the easy baskets he used to get. This forces Hield, Bogey and Joseph to create shots. Bogey is decent at it but by and large we lack the quickness and athleticism to beat anyone off the dribble. Really difficult to watch
To be entirely fair, this is true of both of our shooting guards, who develop tunnel vision in crunch time to such a degree that they routinely froze out our best player (Fox) during crunch time last season for some reason. Bogi's bad possession at the end of regulation and Buddy's heroball three at the end of OT 2 are pretty much summations of the entire season. Generally pointing in the right direction but ending up not being that.
Yes, I was wondering why they didn't press the tempo off the momentum of the stop to drive and kick, .....and at least have a chance to crash the boards. There was more than 12 seconds left. They were 1 point behind! Typical failure in coaching for this team. Press the mfing advantage for Ch$ists Sake. Even missing and fouling would've given a 2nd opportunity.
Nonsense about going thru media about his contract. Horrible play, outrageous interviews. I'm over buddy. His team mates don't trust him. Barnes looked at buddy calling for the ball and turned the other way. It was fairly obvious, but I've seen it more and more recently.
Play JJ or make a trade. SG is beyond bad.
Fire Grant. Fire Vlade. Hire Bibby or the sign lady, I'm sure they couldn't much worse. Rite?
Play JJ or make a trade. SG is beyond bad.
Fire Grant. Fire Vlade. Hire Bibby or the sign lady, I'm sure they couldn't much worse. Rite?
His comments during the contract negotiation killed it for me, I dunno just left a bitter taste to me. Now he's at it again whining about being benched after shooting like crap for a week. Come on dude. Stars aren't supposed to act like that. (Yeah they do a lot I know)
No one can deny we looked together when marvelous Marvin and fox were out. What happened.
No one can deny we looked together when marvelous Marvin and fox were out. What happened.
it would be one thing if the guy who was in for him was playing amazing but Bogi somehow shot even worse than Buddy did though.
Bogi: 8 for 28 fg, 3 for 16 from 3 pt range.
Buddy: 6 for 20 fg, 3 for 11 3pt fg
Both dudes played like garbage but if the argument is "Buddy was shooting bad" benching him for Bogi doesn't really work.
While I agree with VF21 to never challenge it could be worse it's really hard to see how it could be. Losing Fox and Bagley (actually playing well) than to top it off with a game of legendary status between Bogie/Hield which I will not forget as long as I'm alive that was something else. Barnes has gone to being Jeff Green again which was always going to occur eventually.
I can't understand why Luke leaves arguably most clutch player in Bjelly to rot on the bench in clutch moments it's real confusing. I legit have never left as bad as I do for Holmes the guy is the only thing that keeps me watching, we would be worse than GSW without him.
Also Bjelly should have stayed signed with Philly or gone back to Europe the guy dug his own grave, it's crazy him and Holmes keep us alive (prior to Fox/Bagley returning) and now he plays half the time Ariza is getting. You only sign with the Kings when you want to rip them off e.g Buddy/Barnes/Dedmon not for peanuts like Holmes/Bjelly did big big mistake. How are you going to let a guy who gets suckered by everyone (Vlade) sucker you.....
I can't understand why Luke leaves arguably most clutch player in Bjelly to rot on the bench in clutch moments it's real confusing. I legit have never left as bad as I do for Holmes the guy is the only thing that keeps me watching, we would be worse than GSW without him.
Also Bjelly should have stayed signed with Philly or gone back to Europe the guy dug his own grave, it's crazy him and Holmes keep us alive (prior to Fox/Bagley returning) and now he plays half the time Ariza is getting. You only sign with the Kings when you want to rip them off e.g Buddy/Barnes/Dedmon not for peanuts like Holmes/Bjelly did big big mistake. How are you going to let a guy who gets suckered by everyone (Vlade) sucker you.....
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The team as constructed worked last year as a fast paced team. De Aaron Fox was the "head of the snake." His speed is elite. He controlled the tempo offensively. The Kings won most of the games they were supposed to win. They couldn't quite compete with the Warriors but their style of play was so effective it made Draymond Green "tired." He said the Kings played the fastest pace of any team "in the history of the game." He thought our team was "a force to be reckoned with" for "years to come."
This is not an accident these teams said these things about the Kings. They saw a team playing together with cohesiveness and talent. They were raw but they won games they should and almost won a number of games they shouldnt.
What changed?
1)Iman Shumpert was traded. Shumpert may not have scored 20 points a game but he made our chemistry. Our record was vastly worse without him. Some people blow off his loss but trading away a player that makes your teams identity overall is a BIG loss. I dont care if that player plays 2 min a game or 40. The creator of our identity was traded away. We have not done well since the trade and Iman is a free agent again. BTW he helped rejuvenate the Nets during his brief time there too...
2) As mentioned previously, our identity was our pace. We were designed to run teams out of the gym. We controlled the pace of the game. There were no plays off because we even ran off made baskets. Fox looked great. Buddy looked great. Bagley looked like he had at least all star potential. Luka Doncic aside....Our pace was our identity. Our team speed was our identity. We were just young. We needed to add some veterans to show us "how to win." This made sense.
3) Obviously there was the whole Brandon William's And Dave Joeger infighting. But Joeger was our coach. He had his quirks but he demanded respect. He allowed all of our players with talent to flourish. He was a proven coach who took spare parts one year in Memphis and they made the playoffs. When Joeger had actual talent he even took his teams deep into the playoffs. Joeger used a development strategy that worked. Fox was eased into his starting assignment. He earned it. Bagley wasn't quite there and in spite of his father's comments he was improving and he was going to have to earn it like Fox did. Even Buddy Hield earned it. He was never supposed to be a starter. He was a sixth man until Bogdan got injured and Buddy earned his spot too. Brandon William's fought over Bagley because its evident Bagley was his pick. He tried to make Joeger look bad when he tried to make MBIII earn it like Fox and Buddy did. Vlade was obviously duped by William's or coerced or whatever into picking Bagley over Doncic which seemed very anti Vlade at the time given his knowledge of European players and his affinity to have Euro players play for the Kings. Once Bagley was there he had to play for William's sake and also for Vlades because he picked him. But Joeger fought back and Vlade fired both of them. It was a control move. It was also the wrong move. All of the things the Kings built were based on their identity. Joeger fit his style to the personnel. He made players earn their time. Like Michael Malone he was an excellent coach.
4) Enter Luke Walton who has his own ideas of what should be done. First and foremost he wasn't going to let the team run until they did a bunch of things first like defend, execute in the half court etc. He abandoned the teams greatest strengths in favor of this methodical approach. His approach sounds good on paper but the results havent been there. Why he couldn't emphasize defense while running and pushing a fast pace is beyond my comprehension.
5)Injuries to first Bagley and then Fox and now tonight both of them. Walton did an excellent job of winning some games with "what was left." His personnel like Joseph can hang tight in the half court. He has veterans like Joseph and Ariza who are versatile. They won some games because they had adaptable veterans.
6) Injuries messed up the flow of the team. Manh new different player pairings on the court occurred. The change in pace was understandable during the time lost to injuries. But cant we play fast when Fox is playing?
7) Free Agency. We needed veterans and defenders. Vlade signed Joseph a perceived upgrade at backup point guard and an experienced veteran player. Ditto for Ariza. DeWayne Dedmon was advertised as being the "perfect fit" next to Bagley. He has underwhelmed but Richaun Holmes has been playing at near all star levels.
8)On paper we are definitely an improved team. We upgraded both the center position and backup pg positions. Ariza is a nice defender and even JJ looks like a quality 2nd round pick and excellent teammate.
9) Our identity remains in Limbo. We continue to not run or play fast or do any of the things that made us who we were last year. And now Fox and Bagley are both hurt again and may or may not fit back in for some time.
This is how we got here......
This is not an accident these teams said these things about the Kings. They saw a team playing together with cohesiveness and talent. They were raw but they won games they should and almost won a number of games they shouldnt.
What changed?
1)Iman Shumpert was traded. Shumpert may not have scored 20 points a game but he made our chemistry. Our record was vastly worse without him. Some people blow off his loss but trading away a player that makes your teams identity overall is a BIG loss. I dont care if that player plays 2 min a game or 40. The creator of our identity was traded away. We have not done well since the trade and Iman is a free agent again. BTW he helped rejuvenate the Nets during his brief time there too...
2) As mentioned previously, our identity was our pace. We were designed to run teams out of the gym. We controlled the pace of the game. There were no plays off because we even ran off made baskets. Fox looked great. Buddy looked great. Bagley looked like he had at least all star potential. Luka Doncic aside....Our pace was our identity. Our team speed was our identity. We were just young. We needed to add some veterans to show us "how to win." This made sense.
3) Obviously there was the whole Brandon William's And Dave Joeger infighting. But Joeger was our coach. He had his quirks but he demanded respect. He allowed all of our players with talent to flourish. He was a proven coach who took spare parts one year in Memphis and they made the playoffs. When Joeger had actual talent he even took his teams deep into the playoffs. Joeger used a development strategy that worked. Fox was eased into his starting assignment. He earned it. Bagley wasn't quite there and in spite of his father's comments he was improving and he was going to have to earn it like Fox did. Even Buddy Hield earned it. He was never supposed to be a starter. He was a sixth man until Bogdan got injured and Buddy earned his spot too. Brandon William's fought over Bagley because its evident Bagley was his pick. He tried to make Joeger look bad when he tried to make MBIII earn it like Fox and Buddy did. Vlade was obviously duped by William's or coerced or whatever into picking Bagley over Doncic which seemed very anti Vlade at the time given his knowledge of European players and his affinity to have Euro players play for the Kings. Once Bagley was there he had to play for William's sake and also for Vlades because he picked him. But Joeger fought back and Vlade fired both of them. It was a control move. It was also the wrong move. All of the things the Kings built were based on their identity. Joeger fit his style to the personnel. He made players earn their time. Like Michael Malone he was an excellent coach.
4) Enter Luke Walton who has his own ideas of what should be done. First and foremost he wasn't going to let the team run until they did a bunch of things first like defend, execute in the half court etc. He abandoned the teams greatest strengths in favor of this methodical approach. His approach sounds good on paper but the results havent been there. Why he couldn't emphasize defense while running and pushing a fast pace is beyond my comprehension.
5)Injuries to first Bagley and then Fox and now tonight both of them. Walton did an excellent job of winning some games with "what was left." His personnel like Joseph can hang tight in the half court. He has veterans like Joseph and Ariza who are versatile. They won some games because they had adaptable veterans.
6) Injuries messed up the flow of the team. Manh new different player pairings on the court occurred. The change in pace was understandable during the time lost to injuries. But cant we play fast when Fox is playing?
7) Free Agency. We needed veterans and defenders. Vlade signed Joseph a perceived upgrade at backup point guard and an experienced veteran player. Ditto for Ariza. DeWayne Dedmon was advertised as being the "perfect fit" next to Bagley. He has underwhelmed but Richaun Holmes has been playing at near all star levels.
8)On paper we are definitely an improved team. We upgraded both the center position and backup pg positions. Ariza is a nice defender and even JJ looks like a quality 2nd round pick and excellent teammate.
9) Our identity remains in Limbo. We continue to not run or play fast or do any of the things that made us who we were last year. And now Fox and Bagley are both hurt again and may or may not fit back in for some time.
This is how we got here......
Partly chemistry/identity crisis mixed with perfect storm. Teams had already kind of started to figure out the Kings play book on both ends but then putting in two new main rotation cogs into a team reliant on team system offensive and defensive schemes totally caused a set back in rhythm. In a team set on either end having even just one player being out of sorts will bring the whole thing crashing down. Now the question for the Kings is what are you? Walton has said that they are an up tempo team but he still wants them working on the half court stuff for the moment. The next question is how calm is too calm and how long do you continue to experiment while losing to some of the worst teams in the league at home? This team isn't nearly confident nor composed enough to handle too much punishment IMO.
It's been the GM/players for the past 10+ years, Malone/Joerger/Walton with a decent team would all do fine but as mentioned before we build/draft/bring in low IQ players or vets who are declining badly, Darren Collison/Bjelica/Holmes are the only above average impact signings we have made at a good price in like 10 seasons.
Exactly we literally had a thread saying how wrong some were for bashing him, literally a weak later were back to it. You can’t fix stupid that’s what Buddy is a low IQ player, Barnes is pure garbage as he’s always been dallas couldn’t wait to get rid of him for a reason he is who he is. Fox is in and out and Bagley can’t do crap and gets hurt every other week but yes blame Walton. Watch us look good again without those two and we’re back to Walton is good
I don't know if it's Buddy asking for it or the coaches trying to develop it, but they need to stop asking him to do anything but shoot. He's essentially a Kyle Korver who doesn't play within himself.
If he just accepts and focuses on being a shooter and playing smart D he will be ok. But he is not a player who should be demanding the ball and forcing shots.
If he just accepts and focuses on being a shooter and playing smart D he will be ok. But he is not a player who should be demanding the ball and forcing shots.
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