The Wrestling Thread~
- Thread starter SLAB
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Ok that is awesome. MJF is also a top notch heel. Not entirely sure the point of denying either or are tops at what they do. Just calling him the Burberry Bozo means he is doing something right. He's the smug prick and she's the cold blooded assassin. And both manage to avoid the "cool heel" tropes that plague post-NWO wrestling.
Anyways, Slim, aside from Shayna getting the booking that Ronda should have gotten, Ronda is reasonably hot and looked like a cartoon character by the end of her run while Shayna looks like a serial killer. So that helps.
Anyways, Slim, aside from Shayna getting the booking that Ronda should have gotten, Ronda is reasonably hot and looked like a cartoon character by the end of her run while Shayna looks like a serial killer. So that helps.
You two may have misinterpreted my post as wondering why Ronda got pushed; I know why Ronda got pushed. It just strikes me as humorous that Shayna is so much better at this. I wouldn't have predicted that, based on what I saw of the two of them in MMA. As far as her appearance, all that may be true but, even then, there are women in WWE who are just as, if not more (objectively) attractive, who have also put in more time, and paid more dues, that haven't been given half the chances Ronda has.
And, again, credit to Mercedes, as well as Nicole Savoy. Working with the two of them on the indies definitely helped Shayna raise her game.
And, again, credit to Mercedes, as well as Nicole Savoy. Working with the two of them on the indies definitely helped Shayna raise her game.
Hey sorry - I fell asleep on Monday and never got to the computer.
What I meant was that if Ronda had been booked the way that Shayna is she may have come off the way Shayna has. There is absolutely no doubt that Ronda quite quickly took to the in-ring aspect of the WWE and did very well for someone so green. But she was given the babyface vs. authority treatment that really didn't do her any favors, and for whatever reason they put her on the mic when it was clear she wasn't suited for it. A lot of folks thought that she should have basically come in and destroyed a few people, maybe broke some arms of enhancement talent or even put out one of the mid-card women, been given a kayfabe suspension and come back even more badass. Also if they had put her with Shayna and the other horsewomen the way Shayna got them it would have added to her cred.
Shayna basically got the fantasy booking that people wanted for Ronda and it really catapulted her beyond where I thought she could go. And I do think Ronda would have been well suited to that role. But I also think that Ronda has more money and opportunity out there where working a WWE schedule is not going to make her happy whereas Shayna this is her big break. And good for her for seizing it.
What I meant was that if Ronda had been booked the way that Shayna is she may have come off the way Shayna has. There is absolutely no doubt that Ronda quite quickly took to the in-ring aspect of the WWE and did very well for someone so green. But she was given the babyface vs. authority treatment that really didn't do her any favors, and for whatever reason they put her on the mic when it was clear she wasn't suited for it. A lot of folks thought that she should have basically come in and destroyed a few people, maybe broke some arms of enhancement talent or even put out one of the mid-card women, been given a kayfabe suspension and come back even more badass. Also if they had put her with Shayna and the other horsewomen the way Shayna got them it would have added to her cred.
Shayna basically got the fantasy booking that people wanted for Ronda and it really catapulted her beyond where I thought she could go. And I do think Ronda would have been well suited to that role. But I also think that Ronda has more money and opportunity out there where working a WWE schedule is not going to make her happy whereas Shayna this is her big break. And good for her for seizing it.
I'm going to have to beg to differ: Ronda may have the presence that she could have sold it on the mic, but she couldn't have sold it in the ring. YMMV, but I have been unimpressed by Ronda's ring work, and don't think she can be an effective heel, because she can't lead a match, yet. Even during her feud with Becky, she was getting booed, but she wasn't getting booked like a heel.
Shayna is a better pro wrassler. Even relative to their respective stages of their careers, Shayna was much better in the ring when she was at the point that Ronda was at by Wrestlemania. And, you know, being a workrate mark, that's all that matters to me.
Shayna is a better pro wrassler. Even relative to their respective stages of their careers, Shayna was much better in the ring when she was at the point that Ronda was at by Wrestlemania. And, you know, being a workrate mark, that's all that matters to me.
Ronda got hot-shotted because of her appeal outside the WWE universe but I think if she had been allowed to develop she could be where Shayna is. I guess the reality is that she could never be allowed to simmer and stew because she was so high profile. But I do think that she would have worked better as a heel, she wouldn't have to lead matches if she started off squashing enhancement talent.
I know her final two UFC matches didn't go so well but this is a person who was making quick work of most of her opponents and so there was no reason for her to start off trying to work in a fashion that appeals to workrate marks. And since when was that ever a concern of Vince? He's always been about the attraction.
I know her final two UFC matches didn't go so well but this is a person who was making quick work of most of her opponents and so there was no reason for her to start off trying to work in a fashion that appeals to workrate marks. And since when was that ever a concern of Vince? He's always been about the attraction.
Unashmed of it. He’s probably on my Mount Rushmore of GOATs.
He and Jericho were my first two favorite wrestlers when I jumped into the crazy world of wrestling somewhere around my jr high years.
Saw him from a tag guy, to a KotR winner
and then his ascent from IC mainstay to one of the best heels in the business. I grew up with him, and I love his heel work. Can’t wait until he takes the returning hero face pops and effortlessly turns it into vicious booing.
He and Jericho were my first two favorite wrestlers when I jumped into the crazy world of wrestling somewhere around my jr high years.
Saw him from a tag guy, to a KotR winner
my first memory of being shocked was Christian turning on him and the one man con-chair-to
Slim's assessment is pretty harsh for a guy who was a good worker and had some innovative AE matches but I never really saw him as a main event guy. I can't really say if I lapsed because these guys were on top or not, but I just wasn't really into it. It is hard for me to imagine him not being up there without the event Slim referenced, which is uncool but also making lemons into lemonade kinda situation.
It’s not like former friend didn’t have his chance to also capitalize off the real life drama. Instead he tanked it so badly (“I hope you die in a car crash!”) that _______ ran away with the push for the next decade.
Also... wasn’t he already in the main event/world championship scene by the time the drama went down? Why would his career have been over in 2006?
Also... wasn’t he already in the main event/world championship scene by the time the drama went down? Why would his career have been over in 2006?
Disagree. Edge was one of the most effective heels of the last 15 years. Crowds genuinely hated him and he played it perfectly as the sleazy "ultimate opportunist". Edge was solid in the ring and had a unique look. His promo skills really weren't that good but he made up for it with facial expressions (an under-utilized skill).
Also Matt Hardy wasn't his "best friend". He was a friend but everyone knows Christian has always been his best friend. Edge was also very close with Eddy and Benoit.
Also Matt Hardy wasn't his "best friend". He was a friend but everyone knows Christian has always been his best friend. Edge was also very close with Eddy and Benoit.
If there is a signature Edge match that can't be attributed to a better wrestler, I haven't seen it. Not saying that he was bad, per se, but he was probably the second-weakest member of the Smackdown Six, in-ring wise. His moveset was weak as hell, an his finishing move, the spear, was ****; one of the worst in the history of wrestling.
He was; he also wasn't any kind of draw. Also, by saying, "all intents and purposes," I thought it was understood that I didn't mean he was going to literally be out of wrestling, or even out of WWE. But before news of the affair broke out, he was on his way back to permanent midcard, and to becoming the Cesaro of his generation.
The best run of Edge's career was a direct result of his being rewarded for his and Lita's affair. That doesn't sit right with me.
I stand corrected: Matt was only about his fourth or fifth-best friend. I guess that makes it okay, then.
He was; he also wasn't any kind of draw. Also, by saying, "all intents and purposes," I thought it was understood that I didn't mean he was going to literally be out of wrestling, or even out of WWE. But before news of the affair broke out, he was on his way back to permanent midcard, and to becoming the Cesaro of his generation.
The best run of Edge's career was a direct result of his being rewarded for his and Lita's affair. That doesn't sit right with me.
I stand corrected: Matt was only about his fourth or fifth-best friend. I guess that makes it okay, then.
All the TLC stuff with the Hardys and Dudleys I considered them all more or less equal. I've always been a more story/psychology guy and so all of them were all either big pop opening match guys or mid-card for me. He was fun in the Aki games but yeah, his spear was lame. Never been a huge fan of the spear as finisher but at least with a Roman or Goldberg you've got a huge football lineman type guy doing it not a graduate from the cruiserweights where they regularly no-sold the best finishers from the late 80s and early 90s.
So yeah, I'm not quite as down as you are but it's a total non-needle mover for me. Like I completely loved Kurt Angle but his return did nothing for me.
So yeah, I'm not quite as down as you are but it's a total non-needle mover for me. Like I completely loved Kurt Angle but his return did nothing for me.
Matt Hardy was never as over as Edge, at any point of his career, but he's a much better wrestler. Better worker, better at pacing a match, better at making his opponents look good, better at match psychology. Also, for all his faults, Bubba is lowkey brilliant at match psychology, too. I would say that they carried the TLC matches the three teams were involved in. Christian is also a lowkey better wrestler than Edge but, like Matt, never as over.
Edge is a better wrestler than Jeff Hardy, but Jeff had the sort of effortless charisma that Edge only thinks he had. Edge benefited enormously from having the right look, and the right people supporting him, not unlike Shawn Michaels. Only the difference between Edge and Shawn is that Shawn, much as I hated him, was legitimately a good worker.
Edge is a better wrestler than Jeff Hardy, but Jeff had the sort of effortless charisma that Edge only thinks he had. Edge benefited enormously from having the right look, and the right people supporting him, not unlike Shawn Michaels. Only the difference between Edge and Shawn is that Shawn, much as I hated him, was legitimately a good worker.