The ONE AND ONLY Luka Doncic discussion thread
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If Carlisle leaves him in with a 40 point lead (I'm not watching so I don't know if this has happened or not), he deserves to be fired. If Luka is the superstar all of you are convinced he is, why in the name of God would a coach risk him getting injured in MEANINGLESS minutes just to pad a stat sheet? Without Doncic the Mavs are irrelevant.
If Bagley ends up being close enough to Doncic that one could make a Jordan to Hakeem comparison (relative) than I think all Kings fans would be happy with that. As it stands now, Bagley is going to have to be a perennial all-star and fringe MVP candidate in the coming years for that to happen.
First thing Bagley has to do to achieve that is to stop getting hurt. The best ability a player can have is availability. Second thing he has to do is come back and buy into team basketball and playing defense as the rest of the team is doing right now.
First thing Bagley has to do to achieve that is to stop getting hurt. The best ability a player can have is availability. Second thing he has to do is come back and buy into team basketball and playing defense as the rest of the team is doing right now.
Yes although I wouldn't say I feel absolute that he will or won't.
So far he's shown no inclination to play team basketball on the offensive end. Even when he was at Duke it's been known that once you throw the ball into him (especially in the post) it doesn't come back out. Bagley has tunnel vision and tends to dribble or turn into traffic and force shots. I like the fact that he's aggressive and a true scorer but I think you would agree that the most effective big men are ones that can also find cutters and 3-point shooters. Could he learn this ability? Sure and I'd imagine at least to some degree he'll improve in that area but is he ever going to have the court vision of the truly great big men?
There are also some minor red flags that were raised last year in terms of Bagley feeling entitled. One of the things that I believe Jason Jones reported last spring was that Bagley expected to start from the beginning of the season and there was friction with Joerger over being forced to come off the bench for essentially the first half of the season. Now we all know Joerger is a prick but I don't really think he was in the wrong to not hand Bagley the starting job from day 1. Also in relation to that was Bagley's dad constantly trashing Joerger on social media (calling him "Yogurt", etc.) I believe Bagley could and should have put a stop to that as it's just not a good look for the father of the prized rookie to constantly be trashing the coach. Maybe Marvin couldn't stop him but more likely it's because he agreed.
So far he's shown no inclination to play team basketball on the offensive end. Even when he was at Duke it's been known that once you throw the ball into him (especially in the post) it doesn't come back out. Bagley has tunnel vision and tends to dribble or turn into traffic and force shots. I like the fact that he's aggressive and a true scorer but I think you would agree that the most effective big men are ones that can also find cutters and 3-point shooters. Could he learn this ability? Sure and I'd imagine at least to some degree he'll improve in that area but is he ever going to have the court vision of the truly great big men?
There are also some minor red flags that were raised last year in terms of Bagley feeling entitled. One of the things that I believe Jason Jones reported last spring was that Bagley expected to start from the beginning of the season and there was friction with Joerger over being forced to come off the bench for essentially the first half of the season. Now we all know Joerger is a prick but I don't really think he was in the wrong to not hand Bagley the starting job from day 1. Also in relation to that was Bagley's dad constantly trashing Joerger on social media (calling him "Yogurt", etc.) I believe Bagley could and should have put a stop to that as it's just not a good look for the father of the prized rookie to constantly be trashing the coach. Maybe Marvin couldn't stop him but more likely it's because he agreed.
Eh, I guess... My perspective regarding such things is different than yours. Not only am I generally pro-player over teams, but I personally think that the notion of making Bagley "earn" his spot is a much bigger indictment of Divac than Bagley and Doncic's respective talent levels, vis-a-vis the pick. If the second overall pick in the draft has to "earn" his spot, then you picked wrong, whether he is "entitled" or not.
You're trying too hard. I'm perfectly honest. Any coach who would leave a player of Luka's caliber in when the game is that far out of the opponent's reach is a fool, especially this early in the season when the Mavericks are cowcrap without him. If Carlisle continues to do that, it's just a matter of time until something bad happens...and that has nothing at all to do with my personal thoughts about Luka, the Kings, or anything else. It's consistent with comments I've made time and time again about leaving players in the game when they're not needed. Risk v. reward, my friend. Not bitterness.
Well a couple things.
1.) Bagley didn't play well enough at the very start of last season to truly warrant starting. This is understandable though considering he was pretty raw and just 19 years old. Joerger was also in "win now mode", so I don't think it was wrong for Joerger to make him "earn" his starting spot at the start of the season when you factor those things in. He wasn't ready to start right from Day 1 and even though I believe Vlade blew the pick, I don't think that factors in.
2.) Regardless of whether Vlade/Joerger should have started Bagley at the beginning of last season or not, it's how Bagley and his team/dad handled it that was a problem. I don't care how good of a rookie you are and how good you think you are, you still gotta show your coach some respect. You didn't see Fox's family running to social media to trash Joerger when Fox was playing behind George Hill to start his rookie season.
1.) Bagley didn't play well enough at the very start of last season to truly warrant starting. This is understandable though considering he was pretty raw and just 19 years old. Joerger was also in "win now mode", so I don't think it was wrong for Joerger to make him "earn" his starting spot at the start of the season when you factor those things in. He wasn't ready to start right from Day 1 and even though I believe Vlade blew the pick, I don't think that factors in.
2.) Regardless of whether Vlade/Joerger should have started Bagley at the beginning of last season or not, it's how Bagley and his team/dad handled it that was a problem. I don't care how good of a rookie you are and how good you think you are, you still gotta show your coach some respect. You didn't see Fox's family running to social media to trash Joerger when Fox was playing behind George Hill to start his rookie season.
Wow. You honestly don't get it, do you? Nice try with the strawman argument, however. I'll give you credit for the attempt, however futile. As I said in my response to SLAB above, it's about risk v. reward when a coach leaves a player on the court in a game where the outcome is pretty certain and said player is virtually irreplaceable to his team. What's going to happen IF Luka gets injured during the latter part of a game when he's still out there just to score more points or get another triple-double?
In all honesty, some of you are trying way too hard to assign bitterness to those of us who aren't suicidal about the draft. I don't care. I've moved on. I am Kings fan to the bone. I actually preferred Luka Doncic to Bagley and was disappointed when he wasn't picked at the #2 position. But I was also disappointed when Geoff Petrie drafted some unknown kid named Pedrag Stojakovic. I root for the team we have, not the team that might have been. I watch the Kings because they're fun to watch again; it's been a long time. I just don't understand how bemoaning a missed draft pick is more important than rooting for the team you profess to care about.
You sniping at me - or anyone else who wants to revisit that draft time and time again - doesn't phase me at all. We're living rent-free in your heads, even though we've tried to move out.
I would make the same comment whether it was about Carlisle and Luka or any other coach and any other star. Playing them when there's little reward versus high risk will never make sense to me.
In all honesty, some of you are trying way too hard to assign bitterness to those of us who aren't suicidal about the draft. I don't care. I've moved on. I am Kings fan to the bone. I actually preferred Luka Doncic to Bagley and was disappointed when he wasn't picked at the #2 position. But I was also disappointed when Geoff Petrie drafted some unknown kid named Pedrag Stojakovic. I root for the team we have, not the team that might have been. I watch the Kings because they're fun to watch again; it's been a long time. I just don't understand how bemoaning a missed draft pick is more important than rooting for the team you profess to care about.
You sniping at me - or anyone else who wants to revisit that draft time and time again - doesn't phase me at all. We're living rent-free in your heads, even though we've tried to move out.
I would make the same comment whether it was about Carlisle and Luka or any other coach and any other star. Playing them when there's little reward versus high risk will never make sense to me.
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