Buddy and Bogdan’s extension?

[Cojc]

I do understand his thinking but hey we cannot give everyone a big contract and still not make the playoffs.
He has to be weighing what happened to the guy we traded him for. On the other hand can he think his value can drop with poor production and crying about getting paid.

I say if he would take a contract in the 4 year 70mil range with year 4 a team option I would be for it.
Other wise let’s see how we do and how much he contributes to winning and how Bogi’s season looks.

We cannot pay big dollars to two players that play the same position so let’s see where we stand around the new year.
I want to keep them both but one just may need to be packaged for a trade that benefits us.

 

[chief bromden]

Whatever gets done (or not done) before the season starts, I can only hope that Hield and his camp are on the same page with the Kings FO. This is an important season for this core roster, and it'd be nice to have Hield happy and motivated to continue his path.

 

[Cojc]

Whatever gets done (or not done) before the season starts, I can only hope that Hield and his camp are on the same page with the Kings FO. This is an important season for this core roster, and it'd be nice to have Hield happy and motivated to continue his path.

I totally agree and if it doesn’t get done before the deadline it will tell us plenty about his character. Does he go all out and raise his NBA stock or does he mail it in and complain and cause problems on the floor.

I think signing Bogi early will pay dividends as long as he is reasonable. I do not want to lose Buddy for nothing at the end of the season but we just may have to make a big decision in the next couple of weeks.

 

[steelevt]

I don't see where Buddy said he wanted a max. Buddy said he wanted to get a deal done. He's a great shooter, he's not a max player, I'm sure everybody on both sides recognizes that, so let's get some sort of deal done and start planning for Fox and Bagley.

Per Jason Jones, he would accept an offer less than max as long as it’s not an insulting offer.

 

[bajaden]

Dude wants that max.

Actually Jason Jones wrote in The Athletic that Buddy was willing to take less than the max, but hoped the Kings didn't make an offer that was insulting. I'm not sure where good ends and insulting begins, but I sure the Kings and Buddy's agent have been talking. What I like about Buddy is that, not only can he score 20 plus points a game, but he's very efficient. To me, that's what separates him from someone like Booker, who gets a lot of press, but when you look at his stats, he's not as an efficient player as Buddy.

I don't have the exact stats in front of me, but Booker scored around 26 pts a game on around 20 shots while shooting 32% from the three. Buddy scored 20 pt's a game while taking just over 16 shots a game and shooting 42% from the three. The big difference between them in points came at the free throw line, where Booker went to the ling a little over 7 times a game to Buddy's 2.4 times a game. Give Buddy a few more shots, and if he can get to the line around 5 times a game, and you'll have a 26 pt per game player.

 

[VF21]

I have the utmost faith in Vlade being able to make a deal that makes everybody happy. Remember how we got Buddy in the first place.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Yeah, unfortunately "not insulting" isn't terribly informative. Honestly, I hope that something in the 4/$95M range wouldn't count as insulting - that's $10M more than Barnes got, and if we max frontload it. If we can get Buddy for that, and Bogdan for a bit less, it would actually be plausible to go into '22-'23 with Fox(max)/Buddy/Bogdan/Barnes/Bagley(max) and be filling in around those guys without going into the tax - or perhaps going into the tax a bit to keep Giles as well so long as he pans out. (I do assume we'd have a bit of a discount on Giles due to the knees being a ticking time bomb.) Then the question is whether that's going to be a lineup that competes for a title. Buddy isn't going to forget how to shoot. If Fox and Bagley meet their potential, and we draft/trade well over the next few years that could be a lineup worth going into the tax for - especially if Giles pans out.

So, I'd be willing to go at least that high (4/$95M) on Buddy. Is that insulting? I just don't know.

 

[SLAB]

4/95 is perfect. He’s worth more than Barnes. He isn’t a max player. So there we go.

 

[Agent23]

Yeah, unfortunately "not insulting" isn't terribly informative. Honestly, I hope that something in the 4/$95M range wouldn't count as insulting - that's $10M more than Barnes got, and if we max frontload it. If we can get Buddy for that, and Bogdan for a bit less, it would actually be plausible to go into '22-'23 with Fox(max)/Buddy/Bogdan/Barnes/Bagley(max) and be filling in around those guys without going into the tax - or perhaps going into the tax a bit to keep Giles as well so long as he pans out. (I do assume we'd have a bit of a discount on Giles due to the knees being a ticking time bomb.) Then the question is whether that's going to be a lineup that competes for a title. Buddy isn't going to forget how to shoot. If Fox and Bagley meet their potential, and we draft/trade well over the next few years that could be a lineup worth going into the tax for - especially if Giles pans out.

So, I'd be willing to go at least that high (4/$95M) on Buddy. Is that insulting? I just don't know.

For him, it might be. You gotta be thinking he’s looking at his peers around the league and he feels he should be making what they are making.

 

[MizzouKing]

I'm not sure where good ends and insulting begins, but I sure the Kings and Buddy's agent have been talking.

Exactly. We're still in the posturing phase of negotiation, with each party striving to move that "good/insult" marker closer to their preferred terms. In the end I expect two things: (1) Team Vlade will safeguard our future by not overpaying, and (2) Team Buddy will balance his perceived value with the security of a known situation where he's successful, connected, and having fun. To me, all the back and forth is just noise.

 

[Kingster]

Whether we like it or not, a player will get paid relative to others with similar skill sets. Which to be honest, isn't always fair because some team will overpay and thus up the overall percentages of the best players. Yes, I'm referring to one Andrew Wiggins who is due to make 27.5 mil this coming season. The worse example is Nicolas Batum, who is due 25.5 mil. An offer of 15 to 17 mil for Buddy would be hard to swallow when he looks at those two salaries.

The major question should be, who in the league at the SG position is better than Buddy. It's a somewhat subjective question and someone somewhere will argue for some player one way or the other. I went around the league and looked at the starting SG on every team and listed his points per game, rebounds per game, and his 3pt%. Obviously some are better passers or defenders. But I have better things to do with my time than dive into the stats of every player.

I start with the best players and how much their going to make this coming season, unless that player is still on his rookie salary, which would make it irrelevant. To be honest, it was hard to tell who the starting SG on some teams was.

James Harden: 36.1 ppg - 6.6 rpg - 38.0% 3pp - 38.1 million due this season.

Klay Thompson: 21.5 ppg - 3.8 rpg - 40.2% 3pp - 32.7 million due this season.

Jimmy Butler: 18.7 ppg - 5.3 rpg - 33.8% 3pp - 32.7 million due this season.

Andrew Wiggins: 18.1 ppg - 4.8 rpg - 33.9% 3pp - 27.5 million due this season.

C. J. McCollum: 21.0 ppg - 4.0 rpg - 37.5% 3pp - 27.5 million due this season.

Devin Booker: 26.6 ppg - 4.1 rpg - 37.5% 3pp - 27.2 million due this season.

Bradley Beal: 25.6 ppg - 5.0 rpg - 35.1% 3pp - 27.0 million due this season.

Nicolas Batum: 9.3 ppg - 5.2 rpg - 38.9% 3pp - 25.5 million due this season.

Victor Oladipo: 18.8 ppg - 5.6 rpg - 34.3% 3pp - 21.0 million due this season.

Zach Lavine: 23.7 ppg - 4.7 rpg - 37.4% 3pp - 19.5 million due this season.

Gary Harris: 12.9 ppg - 2.8 rpg - 33.9% 3pp - 17.8 million due this season.

Evan Fournier: - 15.1 ppg - 3.2 rpg - 34.0% 3pp - 17.1 million due this season.

Danny Green: 10.3 ppg - 3.5 rpg - 45.5% 3pp - 14.6 mil due this season.

Josh Richardson: 16.6 ppg - 3.6 rpg - 35.7% 3pp - 10.1 mil due this season.

Then there are those still on their rookie salaries who are in the same situation as Buddy, or will be a year later.

Donovan Mitchell: 23.8 ppg - 4.1 rpg - 36.2% 3pp - Still on rookie salary.

Buddy Hield: 20.7 ppg - 5.0 rpg - 42.7% 3pp - Still on rookie salary.

Jaylen Brown: 13.0 ppg - 4.2 rpg - 34.4% 3pp - Still on rookie salary.

Landry Shamet: 9.1 ppg - 1.7 rpg - 40.4% 3pp - Still on rookie salary.

Luke Kennard: 9.7 ppg - 2.9 rpg - 39.4% 3pp - Still on rookie salary.

The rest are players that have bounced around the league for a while. One could argue that some are underpaid, but in many cases it's due their age. Like Lou Williams who is 32 years old, or J.J. Redick who is 35 years old.

Lou Williams: 20.0 ppg - 3.0 rpg - 36.1% 3pp - 8 mil due this season. Clips are certainly getting a lot of bang for their bucks.

J. J. Redick: 18.1 ppg - 2.4 rpg - 39.7% 3pp - 13.2 mil due this season. Another bargain signing.

Joe Harris: 13.7 ppg - 3.8 rpg - 47.4% 3pp - 7.6 mil due this season. Harris is one of the best 3 pt shooters in the NBA. last year of his contract.

So the question is, how many of these players are better than Buddy, and how much are those players getting paid. Buddy has gotten better every year in the league, and because he's a tireless worker, I have to assume he'll take another step forward this season. He's always in top shape, and is seldom injured. Those two things alone are worth something. He increased his freethrow attempts last season, and if he can get those attempts up to 5 or 6 a game, your looking at a very efficient 25 pts a game scorer.

Oladipo and Brogdan are better than Buddy and both are getting around $21 mill/yr. The absolute ceiling for Buddy should be $21 mill/yr. Anything over that and the Kings are overpaying.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Oladipo and Brogdan are better than Buddy and both are getting around $21 mill/yr. The absolute ceiling for Buddy should be $21 mill/yr. Anything over that and the Kings are overpaying.

If I’m Buddy, I’m not buying either of those comps. Oladipo’s deal was signed three years ago, and before he made his latest leap. Brogdon’s is more recent, but he was just coming off of a foot injury that caused him to miss almost two months. I’m using the Barnes contract as a starting point at least, and then asking you why you think the centerpiece of the Demarcus Cousins deal should get less than a guy the team got for Justin Jackson.

 

[jellyfish]

If I’m Buddy, I’m not buying either of those comps. Oladipo’s deal was signed three years ago, and before he made his latest leap. Brogdon’s is more recent, but he was just coming off of a foot injury that caused him to miss almost two months. I’m using the Barnes contract as a starting point at least, and then asking you why you think the centerpiece of the Demarcus Cousins deal should get less than a guy the team got for Justin Jackson.

Overpaying for Barnes does not mean we should overpay for anyone else, one mistake is better than two or more.

 

[VF21]

For him, it might be. You gotta be thinking he’s looking at his peers around the league and he feels he should be making what they are making.

I don't believe that's necessarily the sum total of what Buddy might be thinking.

 

[Agent23]

Overpaying for Barnes does not mean we should overpay for anyone else, one mistake is better than two or more.

So what do you do? Let him walk for nothing? Trade him for less value in return due to his impending RFA status? Can’t continually let talent walk away from this team because of the perception of overpaying a player. This is Sacramento. You have to pay extra every darn time.

 

[VF21]

Overpaying for Barnes does not mean we should overpay for anyone else, one mistake is better than two or more.

Great argument but it's a straw man. We did not overpay for Barnes. We paid what we needed to pay to get a player we felt we really needed.

 

[Kingster]

If I’m Buddy, I’m not buying either of those comps. Oladipo’s deal was signed three years ago, and before he made his latest leap. Brogdon’s is more recent, but he was just coming off of a foot injury that caused him to miss almost two months. I’m using the Barnes contract as a starting point at least, and then asking you why you think the centerpiece of the Demarcus Cousins deal should get less than a guy the team got for Justin Jackson.

Apples to oranges. Two different positions.

 

[BigVirg]

4 year 100 mill for a guy like Buddy's in the today's NBA economy is by no means an overpay and honestly I think he will get more than that. Does anyone know if we can offer him a 5 year deal if we don't pay him the max?

 

[Jkbiker]

I think Buddy's agent needs to have him take 100m for 4 years even if he thinks he is worth 120m

1. Injury risk - he would need to play harder in a contract year, If he gets injured? Big Cuz, IT both lost their Big money
Secure your family's future Buddy - take the 100m

2. China risk - potential to impact salary cap - If worse case senario happens and Salary Cap drops 15% from the projected $116 million to $98.6 million, Hield would be eligible for a four-year deal worth up to about $111.1 mil plus fewer teams would be under the cap to make an offer sheet

Yes Kings don't want to insult you, but dont be stupid

its like that game show where they go for the jackpot, but risk everything they won already

 

[Peja]

According to Serbian media Bogdan decided to "bet on himself" and he won't be signing anything till the end of the season. Some media even says the reason behind this is that he believes he could have an awesome season and then get bigger contract outside of Sacramento, but I personally think that's not the case.

Considering that Bogdan is not signing now, we need to make sure to seal the deal with Hield. Otherwise, we'll have unhappy Hield and Bogdan who's future with the team is uncertain. Buddy needs to take into account his role on the team as well as the Kings development path at this moment. If 100+ million is his ultimate goal regardless of the situation, he should seek that elsewhere (Phoenix, Memphis, etc.).

 

[LPKingsFan]

According to Serbian media Bogdan decided to "bet on himself" and he won't be signing anything till the end of the season. Some media even says the reason behind this is that he believes he could have an awesome season and then get bigger contract outside of Sacramento, but I personally think that's not the case.

Considering that Bogdan is not signing now, we need to make sure to seal the deal with Hield. Otherwise, we'll have unhappy Hield and Bogdan who's future with the team is uncertain. Buddy needs to take into account his role on the team as well as the Kings development path at this moment. If 100+ million is his ultimate goal regardless of the situation, he should seek that elsewhere (Phoenix, Memphis, etc.).

Unlike Buddy, Bogdan’s extension max is quite limited, and I think it’s fair to say it would be below market. Do you think that’s what the article was taking about—that he’d get a better deal re-signing next summer rather than extending now, not that he’d get a better deal from a different team? I realize sometimes things can get lost in translation.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Apples to oranges. Two different positions.

Come on, twos and threes are more like apples to pears!

 

[NewArena]

Actually Jason Jones wrote in The Athletic that Buddy was willing to take less than the max, but hoped the Kings didn't make an offer that was insulting. I'm not sure where good ends and insulting begins, but I sure the Kings and Buddy's agent have been talking. What I like about Buddy is that, not only can he score 20 plus points a game, but he's very efficient. To me, that's what separates him from someone like Booker, who gets a lot of press, but when you look at his stats, he's not as an efficient player as Buddy.

I don't have the exact stats in front of me, but Booker scored around 26 pts a game on around 20 shots while shooting 32% from the three. Buddy scored 20 pt's a game while taking just over 16 shots a game and shooting 42% from the three. The big difference between them in points came at the free throw line, where Booker went to the ling a little over 7 times a game to Buddy's 2.4 times a game. Give Buddy a few more shots, and if he can get to the line around 5 times a game, and you'll have a 26 pt per game player.

Buddy and Fox getting to the line a lot more will literally put us in the playoffs

we got screwed out of a lot of FT attempts, but they also can both stand to be a lot more aggressive as well

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, unfortunately "not insulting" isn't terribly informative. Honestly, I hope that something in the 4/$95M range wouldn't count as insulting - that's $10M more than Barnes got, and if we max frontload it. If we can get Buddy for that, and Bogdan for a bit less, it would actually be plausible to go into '22-'23 with Fox(max)/Buddy/Bogdan/Barnes/Bagley(max) and be filling in around those guys without going into the tax - or perhaps going into the tax a bit to keep Giles as well so long as he pans out. (I do assume we'd have a bit of a discount on Giles due to the knees being a ticking time bomb.) Then the question is whether that's going to be a lineup that competes for a title. Buddy isn't going to forget how to shoot. If Fox and Bagley meet their potential, and we draft/trade well over the next few years that could be a lineup worth going into the tax for - especially if Giles pans out.

So, I'd be willing to go at least that high (4/$95M) on Buddy. Is that insulting? I just don't know.

Personally I was thinking four years at 100 mil, but were close and I'd be happy with either deal.

 

[bajaden]

Unlike Buddy, Bogdan’s extension max is quite limited, and I think it’s fair to say it would be below market. Do you think that’s what the article was taking about—that he’d get a better deal re-signing next summer rather than extending now, not that he’d get a better deal from a different team? I realize sometimes things can get lost in translation.

Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The Kings are limited in how much they can pay Bogi with an extension right now, but if they let it go to the end of the year, making him a restricted freeagent, then they can either match any offer, or make a better offer. So yeah, things could have gotten lost in translation.

 

[twslam07]

Brogdon just signed for 4/85. I can’t see how/why Hield would make more.

1. They are basically the same size. Brogdon is heavier and has a bigger wingspan but Hield’s standing reach is bigger.
2. They are the same age
3. They shot virtually the same % from three (Hield had more attempts though)
4. They are both good midrange shooters
5. Brogdon had a higher TS%
6. Brogdon had a higher FT%
7. They both get to the line at similar rates
8. They rebound at a similar level
9. Brogdon is a better ball handler
10. Brogdon is a better passer
11. Brogdon has better ball security
12. Brogdon is a better defender
13. Brogdon has a lower usage%
14. Brogdon has playoff experience

So Hield is a better shooter (and Brogdon isn’t that far behind). That’s about it. Why are we mentioning $100 mil, $110 mil, and/or max money when a better player than him that plays the same position, is the same age, and is the same size just signed for $85 mil this offseason?

If you want to factor in the cap raise, then an equivalent deal would be $90 mil for Hield but again, you’re giving him the same deal as someone better than him? You’d think his market value would be lower. Perhaps people just have it in the back of their minds that Brogdon was taken 36th while Hield was taken 6th in the 2016 draft thus Hield should get paid more, but if salaries were equal, I would rather have Brogdon over Hield.

 

[kingdivac]

[

Yeah, unfortunately "not insulting" isn't terribly informative. Honestly, I hope that something in the 4/$95M range wouldn't count as insulting - that's $10M more than Barnes got, and if we max frontload it. If we can get Buddy for that, and Bogdan for a bit less, it would actually be plausible to go into '22-'23 with Fox(max)/Buddy/Bogdan/Barnes/Bagley(max) and be filling in around those guys without going into the tax - or perhaps going into the tax a bit to keep Giles as well so long as he pans out. (I do assume we'd have a bit of a discount on Giles due to the knees being a ticking time bomb.) Then the question is whether that's going to be a lineup that competes for a title. Buddy isn't going to forget how to shoot. If Fox and Bagley meet their potential, and we draft/trade well over the next few years that could be a lineup worth going into the tax for - especially if Giles pans out.

So, I'd be willing to go at least that high (4/$95M) on Buddy. Is that insulting? I just don't know.

Right, one person's insult is another person's joke, or even meaningless.

 

[kingdivac]

Oladipo and Brogdan are better than Buddy and both are getting around $21 mill/yr. The absolute ceiling for Buddy should be $21 mill/yr. Anything over that and the Kings are overpaying.

I don't know about Brogdan being better; at least not judging from last year's playoff s losses to Raptors, where he had some poor outings and looked forgettable. But I didn't watch the Bucks much at all. Of course I don't follow regular season the way I used it, where I'd watch massive amounts of basketball. regardless of who's playing. Now I mostly keep to the Kings, and playoffs. I still binge watch NFL, but you gotta pick your battles. I'd go crazy if I followed College level closely. Too much time.

 

[kingdivac]

Overpaying for Barnes does not mean we should overpay for anyone else, one mistake is better than two or more.

Apples to oranges. Two different positions.

You could make that comparison, but you can also widen the view-plane and look at salary-to-talent in general. Anyway, I wouldn't be unhappy if the Kings overpaid for Hield. Of all the Kings *right now*,I think he's worth it. Absolutely love his hustle at both ends. Few if any of the other players give as consistent a total effort.

 

[twslam07]

I don't know about Brogdan being better; at least not judging from last year's playoff s losses to Raptors, where he had some poor outings and looked forgettable. But I didn't watch the Bucks much at all. Of course I don't follow regular season the way I used it, where I'd watch massive amounts of basketball. regardless of who's playing. Now I mostly keep to the Kings, and playoffs. I still binge watch NFL, but you gotta pick your battles. I'd go crazy if I followed College level closely. Too much time.

It's odd to me that you're holding Brogdon's playoff performance against him when Hield has never been in the playoffs, but I wouldn't say that he was poor or forgettable in the playoffs like you mentioned (and I know you only mentioned you watched him a couple of times).

He had a +7.8 On/Off in the playoffs, and he didn't even play against the 8th seed due to injury. He played 1 game against BOS & 6 games against TOR. So again, he posted a very good on/off against great playoff competition. Not to mention he had good counting stats in the playoffs as well:

.549 TS% / .449 FG% / .378 3PT% / .636 FT% / 16.5 PPG / 6.2 RPG / 4.4 APG / 0.9 SPG / 0.2 BPG / 1.8 TOPG

That's not bad against great playoff competition.


As for the comparison against Hield, see my other post above, but here is a comparison of their impact stats last year: