Tobias Harris
- Thread starter Ozymandias
- Start date
Harris at the max and Barnes making $17 mil next year with 8% raises (average of $19 mil/season), would give us ~$11 mil in cap space still.
You could probably go out and sign Dedmon or Thomas Bryant with the remaining cap to give you a bigger C option to help Bagley in certain matchups.
PG - Fox (32 min) / Ferrell (16 min)
SG - Hield (32 min) / Bogdanovic (16 min)
SF - Barnes (30 min) / Harris (6 min) / Bogdanovic (12 min)
PF - Harris (26 min) / Giles (8 min) / Bagley (14 min)
C - Bagley (16 min) / Dedmon (24 min) / Giles (8 min)
Fox - 32 min
Hield - 32 min
Harris - 32 min
Barnes - 30 min
Bagley - 30 min
Bogdanovic - 28 min
Dedmon - 24 min
Ferrell - 16 min
Giles - 16 min
If you're wanting to win now, I'd probably swap Giles' minutes with Bjelica.
You could probably go out and sign Dedmon or Thomas Bryant with the remaining cap to give you a bigger C option to help Bagley in certain matchups.
PG - Fox (32 min) / Ferrell (16 min)
SG - Hield (32 min) / Bogdanovic (16 min)
SF - Barnes (30 min) / Harris (6 min) / Bogdanovic (12 min)
PF - Harris (26 min) / Giles (8 min) / Bagley (14 min)
C - Bagley (16 min) / Dedmon (24 min) / Giles (8 min)
Fox - 32 min
Hield - 32 min
Harris - 32 min
Barnes - 30 min
Bagley - 30 min
Bogdanovic - 28 min
Dedmon - 24 min
Ferrell - 16 min
Giles - 16 min
If you're wanting to win now, I'd probably swap Giles' minutes with Bjelica.
I'd prefer it over Vucevic.
He's 26 years old and younger than Barnes, 1 month older than Bogdanovic, and 6 months older than Hield. Vucevic is 28.
Most teams close games with smaller lineups too. This would play right into that. Fox/Hield/Barnes/Hield/Bagley would be a terrific closing lineup, and would be hard to lockdown in crunch time with all that shooting and athleticism.
Bagley would struggle against the bigger Cs initially. It may take him a couple more seasons to really add the strength needed to hold down the spot, but a lot of the potential as a team is going to be dependent on Bagley being able to handle the C spot (sort of like how Davis can handle it now) considering he’s best operating in the paint, and whether he can become a good defensive player. He seems to have the instincts and athleticism to be at least an adequate rim protector. He just needs to keep working on it.
He's 26 years old and younger than Barnes, 1 month older than Bogdanovic, and 6 months older than Hield. Vucevic is 28.
Most teams close games with smaller lineups too. This would play right into that. Fox/Hield/Barnes/Hield/Bagley would be a terrific closing lineup, and would be hard to lockdown in crunch time with all that shooting and athleticism.
Bagley would struggle against the bigger Cs initially. It may take him a couple more seasons to really add the strength needed to hold down the spot, but a lot of the potential as a team is going to be dependent on Bagley being able to handle the C spot (sort of like how Davis can handle it now) considering he’s best operating in the paint, and whether he can become a good defensive player. He seems to have the instincts and athleticism to be at least an adequate rim protector. He just needs to keep working on it.
If Harris were to come here, he would be Option 1 for scoring. That's for sure. He would also close all games.
I am sure that is the pre req for him signing with any team. That he is the primary scorer and ball handler.
He will have a lot of suitors. If he doesn't get what he wants, he will move on to the next interview. Why else would he leave a great situation in Philly. Besides Money, To be the Man.
I am sure that is the pre req for him signing with any team. That he is the primary scorer and ball handler.
He will have a lot of suitors. If he doesn't get what he wants, he will move on to the next interview. Why else would he leave a great situation in Philly. Besides Money, To be the Man.
There's enough versatility with that roster for it to work. Barnes and Harris are 3/4 switchable and Bagley is 4/5 switchable. We did see him play center last season. If you are to take his individual matchups with Deandre Ayton as potential I'd say he has as much chance as Ayton does. Ayton was defended by Bagley more than a few times and the Suns tried to stay away from Ayton being on him on the other end. That's a good sign for the Kings. Bigger players gave him some trouble but I liked what we saw from Bagley against those bigger players. He appeared willing to front and be a pest on post entries. That's another good sign. Hey, if a team want's to exploit a Marc Gasol or a Brook Lopez on a Bagley and think that will get them the W, good luck. I'd take that bet.
Vlade better not think for one second that replacing Barnes with Harris is anything more than a lateral move. I doubt Vlade is looking at lateral this summer. In a perfect world Bagley is willing to come off the bench for one more year and they sign someone with size to play center. Bogdan and Bagley off the bench last year was one of the things Joerger did right. That bench duo will keep teams up the night before the game. Even so, that small ball lineup is probably top 3 in terms of talent depth from day 1. And the right kind of modern NBA depth to boot.
Its pretty clear that Vlade sees Bagley as a 4 and even said that in time he could play some 3. We also drafted Giles who the front office is pretty high on and see those two as the future front court duo.
They are not going to go away from that just because they brought in a new coach. I mean part of Joerger's undoing as a coach is that his vision of some players did not align with the front office (e.g. FO get Barnes to address the SF need and Joerger plays him at PF). If the coach sees Bagley as a primarily a 5, there is more than a fair chance that he won't see out his tenure with the Kings.
They are not going to go away from that just because they brought in a new coach. I mean part of Joerger's undoing as a coach is that his vision of some players did not align with the front office (e.g. FO get Barnes to address the SF need and Joerger plays him at PF). If the coach sees Bagley as a primarily a 5, there is more than a fair chance that he won't see out his tenure with the Kings.
No chance in hell of Bagley coming off the bench this year. I was absolutely all for it last year. All for it for a number of reasons.
Not in his second year when he has shown that he is more than capable of being a starter (with another off-season of work). There is 3 certainties heading into next season, barring injuries, Fox, Buddy and Bagley will start. The rest is currently fluid.
Bagley spent some time at 5 last season but the organization does not see him as a full time starting 5. They see him as a 4. Now that might change but it has not to this point (that we know of)
Not in his second year when he has shown that he is more than capable of being a starter (with another off-season of work). There is 3 certainties heading into next season, barring injuries, Fox, Buddy and Bagley will start. The rest is currently fluid.
Bagley spent some time at 5 last season but the organization does not see him as a full time starting 5. They see him as a 4. Now that might change but it has not to this point (that we know of)
The same things were said about Manu, it's about who finishes too. Look, long term it's not a solution but if you can have a willing 6th man like Bagley on your team you might be stronger for it. This is also under the assumption that he can't play C. I don't personally believe that but if so, it's probably the more simple option so a Barnes/Harris pairing works to full effectiveness.
It means neither really as both could easily be true. All indications are that Barnes is most likely to come back and Tobias Harris is someone that we have shown interest in the past as a stretch 4, granted that was before we drafted Bagley but as you said, we are pretty unpredictable with these things.
If Shams is reporting this, then there is some legs to it. If we have decided that Marvin is our C heading forward, then this move makes so much sense.
Marvin in the low post with shooter from every other position. He will struggle against bigger Cs next season but that is where you sign a solid veteran C that can come in and guard those types.
If Harris is our #1 target then bringing Kosta back or getting someone like Kosta becomes pretty important for us. Harris, Barnes, Joseph.....that could be a pretty darn solid off-season with a lot of flexibility in terms of positions.
Marvin in the low post with shooter from every other position. He will struggle against bigger Cs next season but that is where you sign a solid veteran C that can come in and guard those types.
If Harris is our #1 target then bringing Kosta back or getting someone like Kosta becomes pretty important for us. Harris, Barnes, Joseph.....that could be a pretty darn solid off-season with a lot of flexibility in terms of positions.
I've always been hesitant for Bagley to play the 5 because I don't think he can guard them at all. But I've really re-thought about it. The natural center is becoming a dying bread. Look at the top scoring centers in the league:
1. Embiid: 27.5ppg, MVP caliber
2. KAT: 24.4ppg, All-Star
3. Vucevic: 20.8ppg, All-Star (not really though..)
4. Jokic: 20.1ppg, All-Star
5. Drummond: 17.3ppg, (see Vucevic)
6. Capela: 16.6ppg, starter
7. Ayton: 16.3ppg, starter
8. Gobert: 16ppg, DPOY
9. Nurkic: 15.6ppg, starter
10. Adams: 13.9ppg, starter
...
15. Turner: 13.3ppg, DPOY candidate
Of the four 20ppg scorers, 2 of them aren't in our conference. How often will we have to face a bruiser? I think it's perfectly fine if we start Bagley at center, but sign a legitimate center who can actually defend in those match ups. You really don't want to put Bagley in foul trouble either.
Rebounding would be a legitimate concern on our front, although Tobias is an solid rebounder. Fox an Barnes aren't very good rebounder.
1. Embiid: 27.5ppg, MVP caliber
2. KAT: 24.4ppg, All-Star
3. Vucevic: 20.8ppg, All-Star (not really though..)
4. Jokic: 20.1ppg, All-Star
5. Drummond: 17.3ppg, (see Vucevic)
6. Capela: 16.6ppg, starter
7. Ayton: 16.3ppg, starter
8. Gobert: 16ppg, DPOY
9. Nurkic: 15.6ppg, starter
10. Adams: 13.9ppg, starter
...
15. Turner: 13.3ppg, DPOY candidate
Of the four 20ppg scorers, 2 of them aren't in our conference. How often will we have to face a bruiser? I think it's perfectly fine if we start Bagley at center, but sign a legitimate center who can actually defend in those match ups. You really don't want to put Bagley in foul trouble either.
Rebounding would be a legitimate concern on our front, although Tobias is an solid rebounder. Fox an Barnes aren't very good rebounder.
Aminu would also be a great addition as a small-ball PF who is a great rebounder to help with Bagley manning the 5.
For example, a lineup of Fox/Hield/Harris/Aminu/Bagley would still probably be very strong on the boards:
Fox = 4.3 REB per36
Hield = 5.7 REB per36
Harris = 8.2 REB per36
Aminu = 9.6 REB per36
Bagley = 10.8 REB per36
That would allow us to be more athletic & have more shooting than other teams while still holding our own on the glass.
For example, a lineup of Fox/Hield/Harris/Aminu/Bagley would still probably be very strong on the boards:
Fox = 4.3 REB per36
Hield = 5.7 REB per36
Harris = 8.2 REB per36
Aminu = 9.6 REB per36
Bagley = 10.8 REB per36
That would allow us to be more athletic & have more shooting than other teams while still holding our own on the glass.
Still not huge on a max guy, but Tobias would actually be embracing modern principles and we're basically locking up his prime along with Bogi and Buddy. There's a lot of flexibility with Barnes/Tobi/Bagley/Giles that would allow us to play match-ups and we'd be insanely good offensively with that core.
Capela costs you the future 1st. Love Horford, but the age is a major concern. Vuc is a great offensive focal point that would fix our rebounding concerns, but he's average on defense and a "lumbering" C that are starting to get exposed in the playoffs against great PnR guards.
Capela costs you the future 1st. Love Horford, but the age is a major concern. Vuc is a great offensive focal point that would fix our rebounding concerns, but he's average on defense and a "lumbering" C that are starting to get exposed in the playoffs against great PnR guards.
If Tobias were to join us, you let Barnes go. They are just too redundant. Start Tobias at 3 with bagley and go after Dedmon. All of a sudden we go from a small team and unable to rebound team to quite capable. Use remaining money to shore up backup PG and some bench scoring and call it an offseason.