Is Willie Cauley-Stein still an option at center for Sacramento Kings?

[Kings_of_California]

You know what? I can't say that I even care that much anymore. Don't wanna be here? Then go. It's not like we're head over heels for you or losing HOF level talent like Cousins. So, if you don't want to play on this exciting team anymore and/or if you're playing mind games then fine, go away. I don't need this, the fans don't need this and frankly the Sac Kings don't need your low IQ, inconsistent and lazy effort on a nightly basis.

Agent talk or not, I'm done with this. I want players who want to play for this organization and be a part of the turnaround.

 

[SacTownKid]

“I really think Willie needs a fresh start,” Montgomery reportedly said in the statement. “Based on how things have gone for him there in Sacramento, I just think it’s time for Willie to move on and we’d really like him to move on.”

Of course his agent states this - money in his pocket if an increase - like a real estate shark.

Well, and it's kind of true. They tried turning the potential next Tyson Chandler into a post up machine, from the high and low post. He needs a team where he can be what he is. Until then he'll never have a shot to be what he can be as a higher echelon role player.

 

[kingsfan1984]

You know what? I can't say that I even care that much anymore. Don't wanna be here? Then go. It's not like we're head over heels for you or losing HOF level talent like Cousins. So, if you don't want to play on this exciting team anymore and/or if you're playing mind games then fine, go away. I don't need this, the fans don't need this and frankly the Sac Kings don't need your low IQ, inconsistent and lazy effort on a nightly basis.

Agent talk or not, I'm done with this. I want players who want to play for this organization and be a part of the turnaround.

He just wants as much money as he can get. Having the qualifying offer attached to him lowers his value. Not a big surprise. Kings dont owe him a thing though. Put the qualifying offer on him and if we get him cheap and he is disgruntled, then we can trade him for value

 

[kingsfan1984]

We're going to extend the QO and we're going to match any low-ball deal he signs if nobody else wants to work a sign and trade. But he won't be here for long. He's a role player in this league and instead of honing that craft he has spent 4 years trying to be something else. And still all he had to do was retain the focus he had for the first 10-15 games of the season in his contract year but he couldn't do that. He was given every chance with this team that one could ask so any beef at this point is just him making excuses for his own lack of focus.

Hits the nail on the head

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Maybe there were more than 8 that wanted willie to stay, but not after he pulled this cr4p

I don’t disagree with you here. These comments certainly don’t sit well with me. But I still wouldn’t let him walk for nothing.

 

[Section 101]

I don’t disagree with you here. These comments certainly don’t sit well with me. But I still wouldn’t let him walk for nothing.

Then they should have traded him last year. It's pretty much too late now. The only reason for a sign and trade is if the team trading for him doesnt have the cap space.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

He cant be traded if he signs the QO. If they match he can't be traded till Dec/Jan depending on when he signs an offer sheet. And he cant be traded to the team that made the offer for 1 year which maybe the only team that wants him at that price.

There’s an easy solution to all this.

The KINGS extend the QO making him restricted. Teams then know that it’ll take an ‘overpay’ to acquire him outright.

Assuming no team would be willing to overpay, the KINGS can then negotiate a sign and trade with an interested party — which would involve rescinding the QO once they work out the new contract and trade parameters.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Then they should have traded him last year. It's pretty much too late now. The only reason for a sign and trade is if the team trading for him doesnt have the cap space.

Or they don’t want to overpay to acquire a restricted FA, knowing the team can match any offer.

In this case, teams will be aware the KINGS would be willing to part with their restricted FA but that it will take some form of compensation to do so. A low ball offer won’t work because the KINGS will match. So the only options for other teams is to overpay or workout a mutually beneficial deal.

 

[Kingster]

Then they should have traded him last year. It's pretty much too late now. The only reason for a sign and trade is if the team trading for him doesnt have the cap space.

There are several teams that don't have cap space. The question really is: Do teams really want WCS enough to give up *something* for him?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

There are several teams that don't have cap space. The question really is: Do teams really want WCS enough to give up *something* for him?

If the price is right, sure. My guess is that there's no high end market for him and the reason for this posturing is because he's realistically staring at the Kings getting him on the QO. If a team in cap hell with a need can get some relief and send us a player of value and maybe a mid-range pick? Why not.

Also not sure the rules but possibly something can be worked out with the Celtics if we're in the Horford market.

I am sure that the fact that even though people have blown smoke, the Kings have been linked to Vuc, Adams and Horford in the last 10 days and we have Giles and Bagley in the wings, WCS knows what's up. If he is forced to the QO and becomes the 4th big he ain't getting paid in 2 years either.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don’t disagree with you here. These comments certainly don’t sit well with me. But I still wouldn’t let him walk for nothing.

I think this is a case where the RFA rules are working as intended. It may have taken 4-5 years for this to come to fruition thanks to that stupid bump in 2016 but now that teams are being judicious with their funds nobody is going to max Willie to see if we blink.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

There are several teams that don't have cap space. The question really is: Do teams really want WCS enough to give up *something* for him?

I’d be ok with a 2nd rounder if that’s all they could get. That’s preferable to allowing him to walk for nothing.

Besides, he doesn’t have to be the centerpiece of a trade. If they extended the QO and no team wanted to trade for him, the KINGS would still have the ability to include him in another deal (after December) leading up to the trade deadline wherein his contract helps balance salaries.

Or, teams might be willing to trade for him not because they want him but because it’s an expiring contract. Teams are always looking to shed $$ for various reasons.

 

[Kingster]

I’d be ok with a 2nd rounder if that’s all they could get. That’s preferable to allowing him to walk for nothing.

Besides, he doesn’t have to be the centerpiece of a trade. If they extended the QO and no team wanted to trade for him, the KINGS would still have the ability to include him in another deal (after December) leading up to the trade deadline wherein his contract helps balance salaries.

Or, teams might be willing to trade for him not because they want him but because it’s an expiring contract. Teams are always looking to shed $$ for various reasons.

I understand that, but I just want to get something for him now, not sit him on the end of the bench until a mid-season deal finally transpires. Ideally, it would be nice if the Kings could send him to a G league affiliate in Nome, Alaska until such a deal possibly happens, but unfortunately that can't happen.

P.S. I also would be ok with a 2nd rounder.

 

[Kingster]

If the price is right, sure. My guess is that there's no high end market for him and the reason for this posturing is because he's realistically staring at the Kings getting him on the QO. If a team in cap hell with a need can get some relief and send us a player of value and maybe a mid-range pick? Why not.

Also not sure the rules but possibly something can be worked out with the Celtics if we're in the Horford market.

I am sure that the fact that even though people have blown smoke, the Kings have been linked to Vuc, Adams and Horford in the last 10 days and we have Giles and Bagley in the wings, WCS knows what's up. If he is forced to the QO and becomes the 4th big he ain't getting paid in 2 years either.

You are an optimist. I need to spend more time with people like you.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I understand that, but I just want to get something for him now, not sit him on the end of the bench until a mid-season deal finally transpires. Ideally, it would be nice if the Kings could send him to a G league affiliate in Nome, Alaska until such a deal possibly happens, but unfortunately that can't happen.

P.S. I also would be ok with a 2nd rounder.

I understand. And I agree that having him sulk for half a season wouldn’t be a great situation and finding a new home for him sooner rather than later is ideal. I’m just one to prepare for the worst case scenario. To me, getting something for him is worth the downside of having stick around a bit longer. But I realize not everyone feels that way.

Judging by how Vlade has dealt with unhappy employees, I find it highly probable he won’t have him around much longer.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Does a part of this worth include rebounding better, or is that only part of another tier ?

 

[Chupacabra]

Yeah. I guess a starting role, 28 minutes a game, and essentially a green light was too restrictive for him.

I was just being coy about saying "free Willie".

 

[The_Jamal]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can he be used a trade chip for teams over the cap? So like OKC for example, say he agreed to a 4 yr/40 mil deal with them and we got Steven Adams back. Would they actually need the cap space available to make that happen? Since they aren't technically "signing" him, we are.

 

[CVKingsfan]

"Hippie Like A Hacky Sack"

Its not that I agree or disagree that this description applies to Willie, but I thought it was funny. It is used by the first Dallas fan commenting after reading this:

https://thesmokingcuban.com/2019/06...ley-stein-reportedly-wants-out-of-sacramento/

 

[VF21]

Bottom line for me is that Vlade is building a group of players with the "band of brothers" mentality, similar to the mindset present in the Good Times. Players who love the game, who are hungry for success, who value each other's games as much as their own and who are willing to put it all out there on the court every single night. WCS has shown none of those qualities IMHO. I really wanted him to reach his full potential but I don't think he ever will. He just doesn't live for the game; he lives for what the game can give him.

 

[ParniValjak]

There are several teams that don't have cap space. The question really is: Do teams really want WCS enough to give up *something* for him?

Second question is, are the Kings even interested in what the team is offering. For example if its Toronto that was interested in sign and trade and all they are offering is next years' 2nd round pick why exactly would the Kings to it for a pick that might end up being in the 55-60 range and do your opponent a favor (let them get better without them spending anything meaningful or the Kings getting anything meaningful in return).

Sometimes getting nothing is better than getting something for the sake of getting something. WCS will not be getting any huge offers from other teams. That much is guaranteed. I could see him getting MLE or something like that from the Warriors or a team that needs a C but has no means of getting one other than the MLE. No one will come in with a big pay day for WCS. Maybe Knicks because they always do dumb stuff without a fail.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

You are an optimist. I need to spend more time with people like you.

I can see it for a guy like Adams if OKC is moving on and WCS is half the price. It's optimistic but not out of the question? But probably means letting the first batch of FA settle.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can he be used a trade chip for teams over the cap? So like OKC for example, say he agreed to a 4 yr/40 mil deal with them and we got Steven Adams back. Would they actually need the cap space available to make that happen? Since they aren't technically "signing" him, we are.

In a sign-and-trade deal, a team (in this example, OKC) simply needs to have the incoming/outgoing salary ledger legal under the normal rules. Since Adams' contract is $25.8M next year, in a sign-and-trade we could sign WCS to a contract up to $32.4M per year and still execute a legal sign and trade with OKC for Adams via the 125% rule. (That, by the way, is well over Willie's max salary of about $27M.) So there would certainly be no issues on the OKC side of a sign-and-trade if they were to send Adams back.

From the Kings' point of view, it would depend fairly heavily on how big of a contract OKC wanted to give Willie. If they wanted to get near the max, we'd have no issues with the cap since the salaries we'd be sending out and receiving would be close to equal. If they wanted to give him $10M a year as you suggest (I think that number ends up being a good bit lower than what WCS will end up getting), then we'd have to make sure we have the cap space to absorb Adams' contract. As it stands right now with Barnes having opted out, we have a pretty clear $56M of cap space whose only real encumbrance is the cap holds for Barnes ($32.7) and WCS ($14.1M). Since Adams + Barnes' cap hold makes about $58.5M, we'd have to make some sort of maneuver to make it happen coming our way (again, assuming the salary differential between WCS and Adams is big enough that we can't use the 125% rule for salary matching). The easy way would be to finalize the Barnes situation. Nobody expects him to sign for $32M, so if we just signed him to a deal at, say, $20-25M per year, we would then have the cap space to absorb Adams. Or, barring dealing with Barnes first, we could renounce his cap hold, which would give us plenty of space to absorb Adams and still leave us enough cap space after the deal (about $30M) to sign Barnes to a Barnes-size contract without having to retain his Bird Rights in the first place. If neither of those options are good, then we'd have to clear a little bit of room. Cutting Yogi's non-guaranteed money would be close to enough to bring in Adams while retaining Barnes' Bird Rights, but with cap holds for minimum roster size it would kind of be on the edge and I'm not inclined to whip out the slide rule to figure out if it actually works or not as this seems an unlikely scenario.

Bottom line is, we should be able to both re-sign Barnes and, if OKC and WCS are both game, to sign-and-trade Willie for Adams without too much crazy maneuvering.

 

[kingdivac]

Second question is, are the Kings even interested in what the team is offering. For example if its Toronto that was interested in sign and trade and all they are offering is next years' 2nd round pick why exactly would the Kings to it for a pick that might end up being in the 55-60 range and do your opponent a favor (let them get better without them spending anything meaningful or the Kings getting anything meaningful in return).

Sometimes getting nothing is better than getting something for the sake of getting something. WCS will not be getting any huge offers from other teams. That much is guaranteed. I could see him getting MLE or something like that from the Warriors or a team that needs a C but has no means of getting one other than the MLE. No one will come in with a big pay day for WCS. Maybe Knicks because they always do dumb stuff without a fail.

I've read the MLE is now $9.2MM based on salary caps. I think the Kings could match that type of offer if they don't like other options. We'll see how much of a professional Stein is.....and mainly its going to depend on what other options are and their evaluations

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What would 14m/per do for OKC if they sent us Adams? Allow them to sign someone at MLE without too big of a luxury hit?

 

[Section 101]

What would 14m/per do for OKC if they sent us Adams? Allow them to sign someone at MLE without too big of a luxury hit?

Get out of the luxury tax or on their way towards that goal.

 

[Nokidding]

I would not want him back but nor would I want Adams/Capela (unless their contracts are expiring) you don't pay these guy over 20million and win out in the end as Houston/OKC found out both of these deals are absolutely terrible because they are really solid players who play well in a limited role only and don't thrive in the playoffs. We are better of just trying for solid low paid vet e.g Dedmon/Alex Len and these types and let Bagley/Giles develop.

I would personally love Kyle O'Quinn he goes hard plays D and passes well.

 

[kingdivac]

In a sign-and-trade deal, a team (in this example, OKC) simply needs to have the incoming/outgoing salary ledger legal under the normal rules. Since Adams' contract is $25.8M next year, in a sign-and-trade we could sign WCS to a contract up to $32.4M per year and still execute a legal sign and trade with OKC for Adams via the 125% rule. (That, by the way, is well over Willie's max salary of about $27M.) So there would certainly be no issues on the OKC side of a sign-and-trade if they were to send Adams back.

From the Kings' point of view, it would depend fairly heavily on how big of a contract OKC wanted to give Willie. If they wanted to get near the max, we'd have no issues with the cap since the salaries we'd be sending out and receiving would be close to equal. If they wanted to give him $10M a year as you suggest (I think that number ends up being a good bit lower than what WCS will end up getting), then we'd have to make sure we have the cap space to absorb Adams' contract. As it stands right now with Barnes having opted out, we have a pretty clear $56M of cap space whose only real encumbrance is the cap holds for Barnes ($32.7) and WCS ($14.1M). Since Adams + Barnes' cap hold makes about $58.5M, we'd have to make some sort of maneuver to make it happen coming our way (again, assuming the salary differential between WCS and Adams is big enough that we can't use the 125% rule for salary matching). The easy way would be to finalize the Barnes situation. Nobody expects him to sign for $32M, so if we just signed him to a deal at, say, $20-25M per year, we would then have the cap space to absorb Adams. Or, barring dealing with Barnes first, we could renounce his cap hold, which would give us plenty of space to absorb Adams and still leave us enough cap space after the deal (about $30M) to sign Barnes to a Barnes-size contract without having to retain his Bird Rights in the first place. If neither of those options are good, then we'd have to clear a little bit of room. Cutting Yogi's non-guaranteed money would be close to enough to bring in Adams while retaining Barnes' Bird Rights, but with cap holds for minimum roster size it would kind of be on the edge and I'm not inclined to whip out the slide rule to figure out if it actually works or not as this seems an unlikely scenario.

Bottom line is, we should be able to both re-sign Barnes and, if OKC and WCS are both game, to sign-and-trade Willie for Adams without too much crazy maneuvering.

Why go for Adams, when they could be going for Valanciunas and get similar level talent for less cap space.

 

[burekijogurt]

And yet there are numerous FA Cs that do at least 2/3 of those things.

WCS does zero of those things.

It should be easy to replace him then. You just go to the numerous FAs buffet, choose the one with the best combination of attributes, and voila!

 

[Kingster]

Second question is, are the Kings even interested in what the team is offering. For example if its Toronto that was interested in sign and trade and all they are offering is next years' 2nd round pick why exactly would the Kings to it for a pick that might end up being in the 55-60 range and do your opponent a favor (let them get better without them spending anything meaningful or the Kings getting anything meaningful in return).

Sometimes getting nothing is better than getting something for the sake of getting something. WCS will not be getting any huge offers from other teams. That much is guaranteed. I could see him getting MLE or something like that from the Warriors or a team that needs a C but has no means of getting one other than the MLE. No one will come in with a big pay day for WCS. Maybe Knicks because they always do dumb stuff without a fail.

Good point.