Is Willie Cauley-Stein still an option at center for Sacramento Kings?

[KingsFanSince85]

Sometimes getting rid off that type of attitude from the locker room is worth mora than the assets you might get from a team in a sign and trade.

Let’s be honest here. Leading to the trade deadline there have been reports that Kings have been shopping WCS.

I tend to agree with you. But I don’t think the KINGS are in that situation yet. WCS seems to get along with his teammates for the most part. We don’t hear the same level of negativity we heard about Boogie, for example, in terms of demeanor, attitude and player/coach resentment. Most of all, WCS isn’t the team’s best player or their leader. So they can afford to play poker and hold on to him.

I think much of this is posturing. If the KINGS decide to extend the qualifying offer, I don’t see it becoming a gigantic issue. And if it somehow does, then disciplining and/or benching him won’t hurt so much given the small salary. IMO retaining him and trading or releasing him on your own terms — not on his terms — sends a loud and clear message to all other players that don the purple, silver, black and white under this regime. They won’t be manipulated or bullied. They’ll do what’s best for the franchise.

As for not trading him yet, we don’t know what type of discussions, if any, that have go on behind the scenes. WCS does fit the teams style of play and was Vlade’s first draft selection. Perhaps he’s been reluctant to trade him and has balked at what he’s considered low ball offers? Who knows.

I personally have little concern whether the KINGS could find a taker or not. If nothing else, his expiring could prove valuable in a deal centered around another player.

 

[The Effort Police]

Yeah, this is addition by subtraction. The moment Willie opened his mouth on this is the moment Willie started to hold negative value to this franchise. Losing him for nothing is the superior option than walking into next season with him on the roster, let alone expecting him to be a rotation player.

This is easily the sort of thing that can fester like an open wound. It would be a different story if he were a pro's pro who leaves everything on the court but clearly that is not who he is.

 

[206Fan]

“We’ve kind of hoped that things would change over the years and Willie would get a chance to expand his game, get a chance to get some consistency there in terms of the roster turnover and the coaching turnover and the things that have not been steady there,” Montgomery said. “That being said, I’m hopeful they will not even give Willie his qualifying offer so Willie can be an unrestricted free agent.”

Let's look at his year by year breakdown. He's been through a ton of adversity that only extremely good players like Cousins could pull through.

Rookie Year: George Karl and Cousins Drama. In his rookie year he went through the entire George Karl-DeMarcus Cousins fiasco. There are veterans from that team who have been quoted saying that they've never experienced anything like that in the locker room.. yet we're supposed to think our 22 year old rookie center would be immune from all the drama that went down? This was the year that was supposed to be our playoff year when Vlade did the infamous Philly trade to end up signing Rajon Rondo, Marco Belinelli, Kosta Koufos, and Seth Curry. Our all-in playoff push failed with the firing of George Karl.

Sophomore Year: Cousins traded and Papagiannis draft. We acquired a new coach in Dave Joerger. In his sophomore year we also tried to push for the playoffs through FA(Lawson, Temple, Afflalo, Barnes, and Tolliver). Another attempt to push for the playoffs by giving Cousins shooters. With Cousins, WCS, and Koufos on the roster all at C, we decided to draft 2 more centers in Papagiannis and Skal in the first round.. take that however you will, but if you're WCS, how would you take it? Especically if they just drafted you the previous year at #5 overall. Past mid-way through the season, we decided to trade Cousins and tank. Complete 360 from playoff push to rebuild. Change of plans

Junior Year: 1st year of Rebuild. We signed a lot of veteran help in George Hill, Zach Randolph, and Vince Carter. We also got Bogie and drafted Fox, JJ, and Giles. A lot more consistency this year, probably the most of any season with it being relatively drama-free.

Contract Year: Joerger and Brandon Williams beef along with best season since 2006 lmao. Things seemed to be going extremely well for the Kings under Dave Joerger. An unexpected playoff push. However, things were going way too good...just to have our newly hired assisted GM leak rumors about our head coach and publicly wanting him out, saying he will get fired. Nothing dysfunctional about this right? Joerger gets fired at the end of the season after leading the Kings to their best record since 2006!!! 13 years!!!!!! We bring in Luke Walton.

For the Kings, as soon as it looked like we were actually turning the corner... BAM! HA HA WE THE KANGZ.

I mean jesus, I know all the inconsistent effort and motor is on WCS and nobody else, but to act like he didn't get dealt a raw hand here is downplaying his entire stay in Sacramento. Nothing was pretty about his tenure here except the 39 wins that quickly vanished as reality hit when we missed the playoffs and fired our coach. Give the guy a break. This franchise deserves to get crapped on and I don't blame him one bit for wanting out. He might be delusional about improving his offense as I thought he had a ton of opportunity under Dave Joerger, but that's on him. He's been our scapegoat ever since he arrived in Sacramento. Twitter hated WCS more than they hated Spence Hawes..which should never happened. He got so much hate from KINGS FANS, AND GEEEE, I wonder why he wants to move on?? WE ARE SO WELCOMING AND NICE. Bogdan is already taking over as the Kings 2nd scapegoat. Buddy and Fox better watch out next year if they start to regress or underperform. They say that NY fans are bad, but I don't know if they've met Kings fans. Losing has done some serious stuff to this fanbase and I don't like it. For the love of god, fans freaked out over 2nd round picks!!! SECOND ROUND PICKS! A GM should never have to explain himself to fans for 2nd round selections. I know we're all hungry and ready to get over this terrible losing streak, but turning unwarranted hate to our players isn't the way to go.

My very biased and optimistic side tells me things are changing for the better, but it's unfortunate Willie doesn't want to be a part of it. He probably doesn't read this board, but if he does, thanks for the 4 years.

 

[jcassio]

If you think that the WCS defenders, and not the WCS detractors, were the primary culprits of repetitive posting, you might want to go back and read this year's games threads - or for that matter, the last few pages of *this* thread - again.

I wasn’t making such a judgement. My comment was more in response to how some posters just repeatedly make the same argument. I know that’s part of social media, by that’s the part I most dislike.

 

[Kingz19]

I still think there is a high chance Willie is back but this will only make him more polarizing among fans. It’s really a boneheaded play when you’re still technically under team control and the scare away offers just aren’t going to be out there.

His team seems to know Willie isn’t going to demand a number on the open market that the Kings won’t just decide to match but the Kings statement was more of “we’re going to do what we think is best and that’s that”.

Willie played 3 of his 4 years under one coach Dave Joerger and the most significant roster shake up he experienced was the one that opened the door for him to be a full time starter and “expand” his game. He has been given the opportunity to be a rim runner, a high post player, a low post player, a mid range shooter and he has been given an opportunity to take 15-18 shots in a game and he couldnt keep up.

Somehow, I think Willie believes he won’t get his relatively big contract(he’ll get paid well) because he only averaged 12 and 8 instead of him not realizing his defensive potential on a consistent basis. Nobody cares about the Kevin Durant lurking inside Willie and there isn’t a team out there that will pay for him to try to realize his offensive superstar dream. There must be SOMEBODY close to him that knows this.

Willie is right that the days of tinkering(expanding) with his offensive game are over with the Kings and the hope is that he bears down and focuses on the thing that is his and nobody else’s. His ridiculous speed and length for his size and defense. His ability to be the perfect defensive center in the modern NBA. We’ve seen it change games when he’s properly in to it. That’s where Willie will earn his fresh start and that coveted bag for his third contract.

 

[joemama]

There’s more than 8, make no mistake) don’t agree with you.

Maybe there were more than 8 that wanted willie to stay, but not after he pulled this cr4p

 

[Jkbiker]

Tell his agent to convince Rockets to agree to a sign and trade WCS at 2 year 10 mil, 2 future 2nds for Capella
Houston saves 74 over 4 yrs pays 20 mil for a prove it contract, still has the Lob target as before
WCS gets a new fast paced team that likes to shoot, new chance with new team, a little more money
that the kings will not match
Kings get an upgrade at C , better defense, better rebounding and still has a lob target

Win,Win and Win

 

[TaxMan]

Puts him around the top 40 salaries in the NBA. and the top 10 center salaries. That's out of 30 teams. Last year he had an all-pro year - 1 in 8 seasons. I don't think its ALOT more. He's had that 1 All-Star appearance, and 2 less than stellar playoff appearances. I'm more inclined to think 1 hit wonder ie - last season could be as good as he gets performance-wise. He'll be 29 yro this coming season. If on this Kings team he'd at best be a number 3 option on offense behind Hield and Bagley at this point if signed, maybe even 4 behind Fox.. 22.5MM is overpaying already. It's all star money for 4 seasons for 1 all-star appearance track-record.

What he should get is different than what he will get. Lot of teams with cap space, desperately to make something happen.

 

[kingdivac]

I totally agree with you. As someone that was on board with drafting Willie, but sometimes defended him against the unreasonable while also being among many frustrated by his lack of consistency — he and his agent have lost me with this recent attitude and comments.

I mean, WCS was one of the KINGS standout players and reasons for their hot start to the season. And that’s becuase he took advantage of the opportunity the coach gave him. But then the production fell off. Not because of the coach, but because WCS wasn’t playing as well. So then his minutes and opportunities took a hit. That’s on him. And been the story of his 4 year career.

As you said, he’s been given more opportunity on offense in SAC than likely most others would have trusted him with. While he’s still been a good switch defender, his shot blocking and rim protection has never been what it could or should be.

I remember someone on this board making the point that once WCS hurt his hand a few seasons back, he’s been reluctant to play as aggressively on that end and really go for it. I agree with that. IMO, that’s been the most disappointing part of his game.

Whatever he does offensively is a bonus. He’s often surprised me with his passing and ability to score off the dribble and from 15-20 feet. I think he’s progressed well considering what he showed on that end before entering the NBA.

But the defense end was always his calling card and what was gonna make him super valuable. And he’s regressed on in that regard. I’ve been one to forgive the rebounding because he’s often asked to guard guys out on the perimeter and isn’t always camped near the basket.

To me, the 8.4 rpg he averaged last season is adequate considering the factor above and that facet has never been a strength of his game. So I wont rail him on that. It’s far better than the 4.5 and 5 the first two seasons. But the defense and consistency isn’t something to be overlooked as easily. Not 4 years into a career.

Now top it all off with these comments and attitude? Nope. Can’t buy into it.

That all said, I don’t want Vlade to let him go for nothing just because he doesn’t want to be here anymore. That doesn’t help the team. Regardless how the overly negative detractors feel, Willie has value. I’d rather see Vlade exercise the option and then try to work some kind of deal to trade him to a team that believes they can utilize his skill set. If that can’t be accomplished with only a 6+ million contract, then let him go at season’s end.

But I think it’s be a mistake to let him go for nothing now.

I understand snake-bite with injury, Hand injuries hurt but they're not much on ankles or knees. Yes jumping is where you put yourself most at risk. However, if I'm receiving millions of dollars, I would put my ankles and knees at risk. It's what you're being paid absurd amounts of money for. Someone at league minimum after taxes is making $6000 watching a game every night An average player who's playing some minutes would make $36,500/game or if playing 20 min a game $1825/minute after taxes ($6million average salary). In 2 games they make more than the average US salary for a year, and that's likely a role player.

 

[Jkbiker]

As for the Kings, they have little incentive not to extend a qualifying offer. Despite his struggles with consistency (hilariously the same thing his agent complains about with the Kings), rebounding, and rim protection, Willie is coming off his best NBA season and fits the Kings offensive style. There’s no incentive for them to let Willie walk for nothing.
Extending a qualifying offer should be a foregone conclusion. The Kings can rescind the offer at any time if they need the cap space. If Willie gets offered a reasonable contract, the Kings could match and could always trade him later. If the offer is too rich, the Kings could attempt a sign-and-trade or simply allow Willie to peace unmatched.
The Kings hold all the leverage. Willie’s camp is asking the Kings to release that leverage. There’s no reason to expect the Kings to do so

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/willie-cauley-stein-wants-out/ar-AADiIGB

 

[kingdivac]

What he should get is different than what he will get. Lot of teams with cap space, desperately to make something happen.

Maybe, , maybe not. That's how GMs lose their jobs.

 

[KingsSelecao]

Extend the Qualifying offer. Kings hold the cards. To rescind, trade, etc. WCS will soon discover he’s not in demand by most of the NBA teams. WCS always had the tools. He just never made the effort in using them. Hope he gets his act together somewhere else.

 

[HndsmCelt]

As for the Kings, they have little incentive not to extend a qualifying offer. Despite his struggles with consistency (hilariously the same thing his agent complains about with the Kings), rebounding, and rim protection, Willie is coming off his best NBA season and fits the Kings offensive style. There’s no incentive for them to let Willie walk for nothing.
Extending a qualifying offer should be a foregone conclusion. The Kings can rescind the offer at any time if they need the cap space. If Willie gets offered a reasonable contract, the Kings could match and could always trade him later. If the offer is too rich, the Kings could attempt a sign-and-trade or simply allow Willie to peace unmatched.
The Kings hold all the leverage. Willie’s camp is asking the Kings to release that leverage. There’s no reason to expect the Kings to do so

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/willie-cauley-stein-wants-out/ar-AADiIGB

I disagree. Flawed as his game may be Willie is an asset, if you let him walk for nothing you have to ask yourself can you do better with the money? Let him go field offers come back and forced a sign and trade and get assets for him or decide if you're going to just let him walk. At this point the Kings have 60 million in cap space and they can always clear more space if they had to buy revoking an offer to Willy.

 

[Chupacabra]

is he an option? Not according to the latest yahoo sports article in the Kings News Links forum. Willie wants to be free.

 

[HndsmCelt]

is he an option? Not according to the latest yahoo sports article in the Kings News Links forum. Willie wants to be free.

He's a restricted free agent. He goes when the Kings say he can go.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

is he an option? Not according to the latest yahoo sports article in the Kings News Links forum. Willie wants to be free.

Yeah. I guess a starting role, 28 minutes a game, and essentially a green light was too restrictive for him.

 

[Kingz19]

is he an option? Not according to the latest yahoo sports article in the Kings News Links forum. Willie wants to be free.

That doesn’t mean he isn’t an option. Kings especially aren’t new to the whole “I want out” card and you can’t operate a team like that. Especially in Sacramento.

It’s about what they control and what’s best for the team. Willie is merely playing an angle preciseley because they know the big money isn’t coming their way. Maybe as UFA he can find a shorter term offer for maybe less money(one year maybe) with any team he thinks he would individually shine better with. Either perhaps a lower level unstructured team that will let him take a bunch of shots or a contender that will make him look better by getting him easier baskets or masking certain inconsistencies. Maybe get to that third contract quicker and get the money he wants.

I think the Kings understand this angle and if Willie is brought back it’s not something that will be a thing with the team. I don’t think it will affect their decision.

Fans on the other hand won’t forget it. Perhaps that’s part of the angle to make Willie so unliked amongst the fans with whom he was already a polarizing guy with that the decision of whether or not to retain him becomes less about basketball.

 

[kingdivac]

That doesn’t mean he isn’t an option. Kings especially aren’t new to the whole “I want out” card and you can’t operate a team like that. Especially in Sacramento.

It’s about what they control and what’s best for the team. Willie is merely playing an angle preciseley because they know the big money isn’t coming their way. Maybe as UFA he can find a shorter term offer for maybe less money(one year maybe) with any team he thinks he would individually shine better with. Either perhaps a lower level unstructured team that will let him take a bunch of shots or a contender that will make him look better by getting him easier baskets or masking certain inconsistencies. Maybe get to that third contract quicker and get the money he wants.

I think the Kings understand this angle and if Willie is brought back it’s not something that will be a thing with the team. I don’t think it will affect their decision.

Fans on the other hand won’t forget it. Perhaps that’s part of the angle to make Willie so unliked amongst the fans with whom he was already a polarizing guy with that the decision of whether or not to retain him becomes less about basketball.

Yes, business first.

 

[Kingster]

The qualify offer/restricted FA/unrestricted FA conundrum makes my head hurt a little. Obviously, I'd like to get some value for this 4-year investment. But I know one thing - I don't want the "I just want to hoop freely" WCS sitting at the end of the Kings bench next year. When you have an ex-starter on your bench who just doesn't care a whit about your team's objective - winning - it can be detrimental to the entire team's mindset. Even if a guy is not actively undermining the culture of your team, he can still be undermining it by his passivity and his "it's only a job" approach to the team. If the Kings are in the stretch run for the playoffs next year I don't want him there to console his teammates after a loss, saying, "It's just a job, bro, don't worry about it."

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We're going to extend the QO and we're going to match any low-ball deal he signs if nobody else wants to work a sign and trade. But he won't be here for long. He's a role player in this league and instead of honing that craft he has spent 4 years trying to be something else. And still all he had to do was retain the focus he had for the first 10-15 games of the season in his contract year but he couldn't do that. He was given every chance with this team that one could ask so any beef at this point is just him making excuses for his own lack of focus.

 

[Iced Espresso]

The qualify offer/restricted FA/unrestricted FA conundrum makes my head hurt a little. Obviously, I'd like to get some value for this 4-year investment. But I know one thing - I don't want the "I just want to hoop freely" WCS sitting at the end of the Kings bench next year. When you have an ex-starter on your bench who just doesn't care a whit about your team's objective - winning - it can be detrimental to the entire team's mindset. Even if a guy is not actively undermining the culture of your team, he can still be undermining it by his passivity and his "it's only a job" approach to the team. If the Kings are in the stretch run for the playoffs next year I don't want him there to console his teammates after a loss, saying, "It's just a job, bro, don't worry about it."

Do you really think he signs the qualifying offer?

 

[kingdivac]

“I really think Willie needs a fresh start,” Montgomery reportedly said in the statement. “Based on how things have gone for him there in Sacramento, I just think it’s time for Willie to move on and we’d really like him to move on.”

Of course his agent states this - money in his pocket if an increase - like a real estate shark.

 

[Kingster]

Do you really think he signs the qualifying offer?

WCS has no choice in the matter. By extending the offer, the Kings instantly make him a restricted FA and are then are able to match, or more importantly, trade to another team. If they match then, whoopee, the ex-starting center could end up sitting at the end of the bench, waiting, waiting, waiting for a possible trade. My hope is that the Kings can get some value for the guy - now. A bag of Fritos? A second round pick? Just give me something for four years of watching the non-competitive WCS's trip to nowhere.

 

[NME]

Sign and trades happen because teams are capped out and can't sign a player outright. For the team trading the player, it allows them to take back a contract of similar size when they don't otherwise have cap space and will lose the salary slot if they don't resign their own player. Lots of teams have cap space right now, as do we, so neither of these motivations are in place. WCS can just go and sign an offer lots of places and at that point we can only match or let him go, no trade is allowed. Likewise, we can absorb contracts from teams looking to clear space in exchange for some asset. There's no reason to expect these two things to happen in conjunction, unless one of the capped out teams is the one that really wants WCS for some reason. Don't forget that WCS has to have a reason to go along with a sign and trade rather than just signing an offer sheet to establish his value.

Sign and trades hardly happen anymore and the RFA aspect only makes it more complicated. The most likely scenario is with two teams over the cap where one is signing and trading their own UFA using bird rights and the trading team is helping that player get more than they could by signing somewhere outright.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

WCS can just go and sign an offer lots of places and at that point we can only match or let him go, no trade is allowed.

I may be wrong but aren't we allowed to work a S&T with a different team if he signs an offer? Just not the one that signed the offer.

Anyhow, he is free to bring back a deal he has to us rather than sign to work a S&T - I think the reality is the Kings are going to give him the QO and it's very realistic that he has no other options. If he were unrestricted he might be able to get a few extra million per. There just isn't a huge market for a guy who doesn't show up for all 82 games in his contract year. That's how mid-tier players get paid and Willie didn't do it.

 

[NME]

I may be wrong but aren't we allowed to work a S&T with a different team if he signs an offer? Just not the one that signed the offer.

It makes the scenario even more remote. You need one team that wanted to give him an offer that could sign him outright and then another comes along that would like him for the same value but doesn't have the space and is willing to give the Kings something of value that the Kings want. All for a player that does not appear to be highly coveted. It would take a perfect storm of team motivations all for the hope that we get an extra 2nd rounder that we will blow off when the time comes anyway.

 

[kingdivac]

I may be wrong but aren't we allowed to work a S&T with a different team if he signs an offer? Just not the one that signed the offer.

Anyhow, he is free to bring back a deal he has to us rather than sign to work a S&T - I think the reality is the Kings are going to give him the QO and it's very realistic that he has no other options. If he were unrestricted he might be able to get a few extra million per. There just isn't a huge market for a guy who doesn't show up for all 82 games in his contract year. That's how mid-tier players get paid and Willie didn't do it.

Show a highlight reel of Stein to other fans/teams and they won't pay attention to the "inconsistencies" as much. They will mostly see potential improvement - the half-full glass. I think his FT deficiency alone has lost him several million dollars at least. 80% is the goal; but I'd take 75% for a center or power forward. I could live with the poor FT shooting if he gave consistent defensive effort, but not the other way around. It would probably be ok if he gave as much effort as say Barnes.

 

[NME]

Are there fans of other teams hoping they end up with WCS? I haven't seen it.

 

[Section 101]

WCS has no choice in the matter. By extending the offer, the Kings instantly make him a restricted FA and are then are able to match, or more importantly, trade to another team. If they match then, whoopee, the ex-starting center could end up sitting at the end of the bench, waiting, waiting, waiting for a possible trade. My hope is that the Kings can get some value for the guy - now. A bag of Fritos? A second round pick? Just give me something for four years of watching the non-competitive WCS's trip to nowhere.

He cant be traded if he signs the QO. If they match he can't be traded till Dec/Jan depending on when he signs an offer sheet. And he cant be traded to the team that made the offer for 1 year which maybe the only team that wants him at that price.

 

[kingdivac]

Are there fans of other teams hoping they end up with WCS? I haven't seen it.

I dont follow individual players very much in the NBA - dont have the time., so quite a few of the good-but-not-great or even star players I haven't seen enough of to form opinions. Case in point, I'd not watched Giannis play closely until these playoffs. A long while ago with the glory Kings days I had league pass and breathed basketball, now I come in and out of here and try to follow the Kings. 1 team is enough. I guess to squash out a highlight reel, maybe you'd need a low-light reel, but you don't see those too often, unless there's a vendetta. You can also be an optimist and never see or always minimize fault or cause/effect. Especially with the new iffy publicity I think Stein is closer to being elsewhere next season. It wasn't much of a professional move, and I'm surprised his agent rolled it out.