Nice list of potentials. With a little bit of luck and smart positioning in free agency the Kings might be able to snap up one of these guys at an affordable price. although I would probably take the zinger off the list not because he doesn't fit but because between personal problems and the likely price tag he doesn't feel like a likely candidate.
C/PF off season discussion
- Thread starter Showtime
- Start date
MOD NOTE: I just did some clean-up. Warnings were issued and posts were edited. This apparent need by some to make things personal, attacking other's for their ignorance, their childishness, their failure to understand the game of basketball, etc. stop now. This board has managed to have incredibly in-depth discussions about almost everything (with the obvious exceptions of the taboo topics) without personal attacks, insults, etc. Look at the Walton allegation thread, for example. Please guys. Don't make things personal and don't make comments that require the mods to take action. Thanks.
VF21,
I can understand and appreciate the need for the clean up, including my post to a certain poster who sometimes lacks maturity and lashes out at the whole forum. But I hope you have warned that specific poster about their habit of attacking the whole forum. That cannot be tolerated any more than individual attacks deemed as personal are not allowed.
Thank you for all you do.
I can understand and appreciate the need for the clean up, including my post to a certain poster who sometimes lacks maturity and lashes out at the whole forum. But I hope you have warned that specific poster about their habit of attacking the whole forum. That cannot be tolerated any more than individual attacks deemed as personal are not allowed.
Thank you for all you do.
Yeah, he likely isn’t gettable. Especially since I’d like to hold onto Fox, Hield, and Bagley.
Sabonis is likely a more gettable target but his shotblocking and shooting ability doesn’t make him an ideal fit in my book. I think his shooting is promising. His %s are good but his volume is minuscule from 3pt%. But he’s shooting 34% for his career on ~200 attempts and has increased that % each year. His career FT% is 72% and he’s shot 40% from 16ft-3pt line in his career. I think he has what it takes to get to be a good floor spacer but he’s not there quite yet.
I don’t ever see him being a rim protector though but he is a good defender in other areas. He’s pretty quick laterally and seems to be good in the pick and roll. Not to mention his rebounding is stellar which will help end defensive possessions. His DRAPM is an impressive 1.15 (77th in the league). His DRPM is 0.96 (131st in the league). And his defensive on/off is -2.6 which is impressive considering he is replacing someone like Turner the majority of the time. Again, he just doesn’t bring the shot blocking that I think would be needed at C next to Bagley. However, I think there are a lot worse long terms fits out there other than Sabonis.
Sabonis is likely a more gettable target but his shotblocking and shooting ability doesn’t make him an ideal fit in my book. I think his shooting is promising. His %s are good but his volume is minuscule from 3pt%. But he’s shooting 34% for his career on ~200 attempts and has increased that % each year. His career FT% is 72% and he’s shot 40% from 16ft-3pt line in his career. I think he has what it takes to get to be a good floor spacer but he’s not there quite yet.
I don’t ever see him being a rim protector though but he is a good defender in other areas. He’s pretty quick laterally and seems to be good in the pick and roll. Not to mention his rebounding is stellar which will help end defensive possessions. His DRAPM is an impressive 1.15 (77th in the league). His DRPM is 0.96 (131st in the league). And his defensive on/off is -2.6 which is impressive considering he is replacing someone like Turner the majority of the time. Again, he just doesn’t bring the shot blocking that I think would be needed at C next to Bagley. However, I think there are a lot worse long terms fits out there other than Sabonis.
I'd really like a high energy guy in our post. I'm so tired of seeing the lack of energy from Willie. I would really like Montrezl Harrel but that's kinda impossible.
Since Bagley/Giles are gonna play a lot of C, we also don't really need the best big man available. That's where I believe Kenneth Faried could help us. He has great energy, is still young and is a free agent.
Since Bagley/Giles are gonna play a lot of C, we also don't really need the best big man available. That's where I believe Kenneth Faried could help us. He has great energy, is still young and is a free agent.
I guess where I differ from a lot of people is that I don't see center as Bagleys position. Not saying he can't play there, but that I think he can play multiple positions. I don't like locking him into one position. Anthony Davis can play center, but I think he's better at PF. What position does Durant play? There are times when he plays SF, PF, and even Center. Early in his career he played SG. He has the skill level and the size to fit almost anywhere. That's how I see Bagley in the future.
Giles is a different story. He's not as athletic, so I can see him spending time at the center position, and maybe at some point, starting at that position. In the meantime, it would be nice to have a young developmental player with athleticism and legit length at that position. Of course if we end up resigning Willie, then it becomes a moot point. I'm critical of Willie's lack of consistency, but I think his defense is underrated. It amazes me that everyone wants to criticize Willie's defense, but there's no criticism for anyone else on the team defensively. Especially when Willie has the best defensive rating on the team!
I'd love to have Harrell on the team, but he's not a center, if that's what your looking for. He's more of a PF, and an undersized one at that, at least in height. Harrell is almost an improved second generation version of Faried, who will be 30 years old this coming year. Ask yourself what kind of team are the Kings trying to build, and does a player like Faried fit that build. I would say that in general, no, but as a specific spot player, yes! Does he bring enough to use a roster spot on him, or would it be better served used on a younger developmental player?
Never lose sight of the kind of team the Kings are trying to build. Fit is important!! They want athletic players that can run the floor, share the ball, pass the ball, and can for the most part, shoot the ball. They want to space the floor in the half court and get open shots early in the clock. Faried fits some of that, but not all of that. Ditto Harrell! The main difference between Harrell and Faried is age, and that I think Harrell has a better skill set at the same point in time. The chances of acquiring Harrell, at least right now are none and zero.
If I were going to target a player on the Clippers, it would be Patrick Beverly, who I think is very attainable. Or maybe Zubac, who played much better after being traded to the Clippers, although he'll be a restricted freeagent.
Giles is a different story. He's not as athletic, so I can see him spending time at the center position, and maybe at some point, starting at that position. In the meantime, it would be nice to have a young developmental player with athleticism and legit length at that position. Of course if we end up resigning Willie, then it becomes a moot point. I'm critical of Willie's lack of consistency, but I think his defense is underrated. It amazes me that everyone wants to criticize Willie's defense, but there's no criticism for anyone else on the team defensively. Especially when Willie has the best defensive rating on the team!
I'd love to have Harrell on the team, but he's not a center, if that's what your looking for. He's more of a PF, and an undersized one at that, at least in height. Harrell is almost an improved second generation version of Faried, who will be 30 years old this coming year. Ask yourself what kind of team are the Kings trying to build, and does a player like Faried fit that build. I would say that in general, no, but as a specific spot player, yes! Does he bring enough to use a roster spot on him, or would it be better served used on a younger developmental player?
Never lose sight of the kind of team the Kings are trying to build. Fit is important!! They want athletic players that can run the floor, share the ball, pass the ball, and can for the most part, shoot the ball. They want to space the floor in the half court and get open shots early in the clock. Faried fits some of that, but not all of that. Ditto Harrell! The main difference between Harrell and Faried is age, and that I think Harrell has a better skill set at the same point in time. The chances of acquiring Harrell, at least right now are none and zero.
If I were going to target a player on the Clippers, it would be Patrick Beverly, who I think is very attainable. Or maybe Zubac, who played much better after being traded to the Clippers, although he'll be a restricted freeagent.
Rumors are pretty rampant right now. It could be a sign that Orlando is really moving on from Vucevic or just Orlando posturing so that other teams offer him a lower contract (thinking that Orlando is not interested) and then Orlando can re-sign him to a lower contract in the end.
Also, I read somewhere that a Max Contract for Vucevic would be something around 4 years for $140 million ($35 mil/yr). I don't think Vucevic is worth that contract and I sure hope the Kings don't offer that contract to Vuc. Vuc for $35 mil per year would be a big mistake, if someone gives him that big of a contract.
Now, if the Kings could get him around a $20+ mil/year contract, then I think he would be worth it for the Kings in their push for the playoffs.
We really won't know what rumor is real and what is not until July 1st.
Also, I read somewhere that a Max Contract for Vucevic would be something around 4 years for $140 million ($35 mil/yr). I don't think Vucevic is worth that contract and I sure hope the Kings don't offer that contract to Vuc. Vuc for $35 mil per year would be a big mistake, if someone gives him that big of a contract.
Now, if the Kings could get him around a $20+ mil/year contract, then I think he would be worth it for the Kings in their push for the playoffs.
We really won't know what rumor is real and what is not until July 1st.
Last edited:
Where do you get that Beverly is attainable? what source? Why would he leave a team that's plausibly going to be Top 4 in the West next year for the Kings. Please put down the drink. Beverly won't be going anywhere.
Clips are not only better than the Kings now. But, after they finish signing 1-2 max players they will be miles ahead of the Kings in terms of overall talent and a championship contender.
Unless, the Kings was to pay Beverly the max. Good luck thinking he's leaving.
If the Clips sign Kawhi, game over. If they sign 2 max players. Expect them to be in the WCF next year.
I did read that Jerry West had his contract extended. From the moment the Logo got involved with the Clips things began to change. All 3 of their Stars were moved or moved on. Players that bring it on both ends of the court were brought in.
Beverly and Harrell can be had, but it would involve large overpays in trade or signing.
Beverly and Harrell can be had, but it would involve large overpays in trade or signing.
I can see Beverly as our backup PG - adding some toughness to the team. I trust that I would like him as a King; as I do not like him as an opponent.
Harrell I would overpay for, but not to the point of ridiculousness. However, the guy feasts on the Kings, which probably gives Kings fans an exaggerated sense of his overall value.
Harrell I would overpay for, but not to the point of ridiculousness. However, the guy feasts on the Kings, which probably gives Kings fans an exaggerated sense of his overall value.
I don't think that the Clips will allow Harrell to slip away. He's almost a prototype of what West wants on the team, he's young, and he's still under contract for another year. Beverly is a different story. I think he's very acquirable. The Clips have their PG of the future in Shai Alexander, and I think they see Landry Shamet as his future backup. Shamet is also a good defender who can shoot it, and has better size at 6'5" than Beverly. No, he's not yet the defender that Beverly is, but remember the Clips also have Lou Williams. How many PG's can a team carry?
When you add in that the Clips are clearing capspace in order to acquire a couple of big name players, it's unlikely they'll pony up and match any significant offer to Beverly, especially considering Beverly's age, and if the contract has more than a couple of years on it. Hey, I could be wrong, but logic tells me that it's unlikely that Beverly will be a Clipper next season. He is by the way at the top my list of players to acquire.
Another ex-Clipper is up there as well and that's Tobias Harris. Yeah, I know. We don't need another PF, and while that's true, Harris would make our team better, and would certainly delegate Bjelica a backup position. Plus Harris can play some SF if needed. And, if we were to let Willie walk, then Bagley becomes our starting center, barring the signing of one. I could live with a starting lineup of:
Center: Bagley (Dedmon, Giles
PF: Harris ( Giles, Bjelica, Bagley)
SF: Barnes (Harris, Brewer, Roby maybe Windler)
SG: Hield (Bogdanovic, Jeremy Lamb)
PG: Fox (Beverly, Yogi)
Or of course we could go the more costly route of acquiring Vucevic, which would move Bagley to the starting PF position. I mention Harris because I like him, and I believe he'll come cheaper than Vucevic, but I have no problem with acquiring Vucevic.
When you add in that the Clips are clearing capspace in order to acquire a couple of big name players, it's unlikely they'll pony up and match any significant offer to Beverly, especially considering Beverly's age, and if the contract has more than a couple of years on it. Hey, I could be wrong, but logic tells me that it's unlikely that Beverly will be a Clipper next season. He is by the way at the top my list of players to acquire.
Another ex-Clipper is up there as well and that's Tobias Harris. Yeah, I know. We don't need another PF, and while that's true, Harris would make our team better, and would certainly delegate Bjelica a backup position. Plus Harris can play some SF if needed. And, if we were to let Willie walk, then Bagley becomes our starting center, barring the signing of one. I could live with a starting lineup of:
Center: Bagley (Dedmon, Giles
PF: Harris ( Giles, Bjelica, Bagley)
SF: Barnes (Harris, Brewer, Roby maybe Windler)
SG: Hield (Bogdanovic, Jeremy Lamb)
PG: Fox (Beverly, Yogi)
Or of course we could go the more costly route of acquiring Vucevic, which would move Bagley to the starting PF position. I mention Harris because I like him, and I believe he'll come cheaper than Vucevic, but I have no problem with acquiring Vucevic.
Good reasoning and points. I like Beverly and think he is attainable now too.
I'm wondering what is your take on Austin Rivers. He is a younger established point guard and likely won't re-sign with a Luxury tax strapped Houston team. He has the defensive prowess of Beverly, but with a little more offense.
I'm thinking Rivers may be a good younger backup point guard, if he we can sign him to a decent contract.
I'm wondering what is your take on Austin Rivers. He is a younger established point guard and likely won't re-sign with a Luxury tax strapped Houston team. He has the defensive prowess of Beverly, but with a little more offense.
I'm thinking Rivers may be a good younger backup point guard, if he we can sign him to a decent contract.
He's more of a 2 guard. Less of a point guard than Ferrell is. He's basically kind of the same player, maybe even a bit inferior to Yogi. We saw how badly the 2nd unit struggled with scoring when Bogi and Yogi played together. I think we need a better facilitator as the backup PG. Beverly is a half click above those guys when it comes to running a team but he's a reliable knock down shooter and a terrific defender obviously.
Yeah, I sort of agree with ESP47 that Rivers is more of a combo guard. I wasn't originally that high on him, but I have to give him his due. His game has improved over the last few years, and I wouldn't be opposed to having him on the team. He's just not at the top of my list. I also agree with ESP47 that the 2nd unit sort of went as Bog's went, meaning that if he was hitting his shots, all was fine, but if he was having a bad shooting night, the whole unit seemed ineffective.
Personally I think some of that had to do with Joerger's rotations. I like to always keep one of my main guys on the floor at all times. Joerger had this habit of having the entire second unit out there at the same time, and too often, he left them out there too long. I understand that he did have ulterior motives, like managing the younger players minutes etc. But I think that had a lot to do with the 2nd unit not performing well.
Willie and Buddy were usually the first one's to the bench, and then a bit latter Fox. I think when Fox comes off the floor, then Buddy should go back in, Barnes comes out, and Bog's slides over to the SF spot. Anyway, you get the idea. Always keep one of your best scorers on the floor. Barnes could slide back and forth between being the 4th option, to the 1st or 2nd option depending on who he's on the floor with.
Personally I think some of that had to do with Joerger's rotations. I like to always keep one of my main guys on the floor at all times. Joerger had this habit of having the entire second unit out there at the same time, and too often, he left them out there too long. I understand that he did have ulterior motives, like managing the younger players minutes etc. But I think that had a lot to do with the 2nd unit not performing well.
Willie and Buddy were usually the first one's to the bench, and then a bit latter Fox. I think when Fox comes off the floor, then Buddy should go back in, Barnes comes out, and Bog's slides over to the SF spot. Anyway, you get the idea. Always keep one of your best scorers on the floor. Barnes could slide back and forth between being the 4th option, to the 1st or 2nd option depending on who he's on the floor with.
That always bugged me about Joerger's rotations too. D'Antoni always has either Paul or Harden on the floor. You never get a break from them.
Only defense for Joerger I can think of is on the defensive side of the ball. You're either playing Bogie at PG/SF or Buddy at SF if you put Buddy back in as soon as you pull Fox.
Adding Pat Bev fixes all that.
Only defense for Joerger I can think of is on the defensive side of the ball. You're either playing Bogie at PG/SF or Buddy at SF if you put Buddy back in as soon as you pull Fox.
Adding Pat Bev fixes all that.
Powell just declined his $10 mil team option for Dallas. Sign me all the way up.
For some reason, Dallas never figured out this dude is legitimately good. He's on the "Richaun Holmes" list of guys where if you gave him consistent 30+ MPG, he's going to put up numbers that make people think he broke out and came from nowhere. Like him a lot more for us because we can flex him at the 4 and the 5. Super athletic, really skilled around the rim, knows his role as an offensive player, all is produce when he's on the floor. Just showed a 22 game stint as a starter with a 17, 7.5, 2.4 in 30 MPG with a 74% TS (like wut) to end the season.
Love the fit in the PnR with Fox/Bogie and he'd be someone we could flex to the bench without much issue when Giles is ready to go.
For some reason, Dallas never figured out this dude is legitimately good. He's on the "Richaun Holmes" list of guys where if you gave him consistent 30+ MPG, he's going to put up numbers that make people think he broke out and came from nowhere. Like him a lot more for us because we can flex him at the 4 and the 5. Super athletic, really skilled around the rim, knows his role as an offensive player, all is produce when he's on the floor. Just showed a 22 game stint as a starter with a 17, 7.5, 2.4 in 30 MPG with a 74% TS (like wut) to end the season.
Love the fit in the PnR with Fox/Bogie and he'd be someone we could flex to the bench without much issue when Giles is ready to go.
Both Gorgeous-Alexander & Shamet will likey be getting more playing time next season. They can play both guard positions. They also have Lou Williams coming off the bench and he can't guard SGs. Beverly was a big part of that team this season, but I see him having as big of a role next season. Oh, they also have Jerome Robinson who they drafted last year.
