Joerger Status. (He’s Fired)

[KestrelKing]

So when will Divac hold himself accountable? He said if the team didn't make the playoffs by this season that he would resign. Good way to shift the blame, Vlade.

At this point, the Kings don't have any great player, just a bunch of decent young role player really. A couple of them may develop to be good players down the line but it takes time.

Vlade said no such thing. He said the “team will be better”. He made no mention of playoffs.

 

[NewArena]

Now just get rid of WCS please

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Ok, thats basically what the national media is saying and I agree. So does it make sense for Vlade to fire someone that just coached the team into such an improvement? I'm not going at you, just an open question.

I'm not 100% sold on the move. I don't know who we will get that's better. It's a bold choice that has paid off for the Warriors and Raptors in recent memory. I am sure there are other teams that missed their windows because they stuck with an average coach. And there are some that have competed at a higher level because of a better than average coach.

I think Joerger got a lot out of the kids. He also frequently left a lot to be desired during the season. He doesn't seem to make adjustments well, and the Barnes trade exhibited that. Finding the next guy is going to be a big task. I hope we get it right.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Vlade said no such thing. He said the “team will be better”. He made no mention of playoffs.

I went back to the original main interview and he said "better off". Though I do seem to remember a non formal interview around that time where he was asked to elaborate and said it means the goal was to make the playoffs in 2 years. I can't find the clip now but there are others on the forum back in the days that saw that too and was discussed within the threads. Maybe someone still has a link.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

I'm not 100% sold on the move. I don't know who we will get that's better. It's a bold choice that has paid off for the Warriors and Raptors in recent memory. I am sure there are other teams that missed their windows because they stuck with an average coach. And there are some that have competed at a higher level because of a better than average coach.

I think Joerger got a lot out of the kids. He also frequently left a lot to be desired during the season. He doesn't seem to make adjustments well, and the Barnes trade exhibited that. Finding the next guy is going to be a big task. I hope we get it right.

We will see. But the list of guys on the potential replacement list on the other thread is not promising. Barnes is just not that good of a player. He is really just a good role player but paid max money at that time because Cuban was desperate for a win at that time.

 

[Livinthedream]

If I'm a GM of a plus .500 team and I make a couple of trades and make the roster stronger and the team gets worse, I'm going to look at the coach. If I'm a GM and I think one of our biggest holes is at the SF, and I trade a young developing SF for a seasoned vet SF, and the coach proceeds to play the new SF at the PF position, I'm going to think there is a disconnect. Could see this coming from a mile away.

 

[Ozymandias]

Grant’s scathing takes aren’t nearly as scathing as expected.

Basically he loves and respects Joerger and thinks he’ll get another job in the future. Thinks last night had nothing to do with what happened today.

If last night is the reason we fired Joerger, then we have MAJOR issues... Luckily that is not what happened, at-all..

That is honestly just one of those hot-takes that people throw around, that wasnt thought out too well. prisoner of the moment type thing..

Joerger was fired for the full body of his work. It seems like there was legit communication issues too.

 

[SLAB]

“I CANT HELP BUT THINK YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS GRANT NAPEAR!”

“You got me. I traded DeMarcus Cousins. I traded Chris Webber to Philadelphia. I traded Doug Christie. You got me.”

 

[Ozymandias]

I am all for Ettore Messina!!!!


According to The Athletic's Sam Amick, Messina "would definitely want the job"


It's been many years his names been thrown around for vacancies, and this young Kings team we have here.... what more could he ask for???


The Kings vacancy at head coach is a spot these other coaches would love to get offered... That chair on our bench is PRIME REAL ESTATE...

 

[ppine]

Sad day in Muddville. The Kings have a revolving door for coaches. They got rid of Malone way too soon. Young players need some consistency. Patience is a virtue in basketball and in life. I don't believe you should punish people for being successful.

 

[sactowndog]

“We have to believe in our young pieces.”

Yes look at Giles shooting at Stockton versus the Kings. Did you ever see Giles run a pick and pop? This issue wasn’t just our post all-star collapse but that collapse certainly didn’t help.

 

[Sac.1989]

Sad day in Muddville. The Kings have a revolving door for coaches. They got rid of Malone way too soon. Young players need some consistency. Patience is a virtue in basketball and in life. I don't believe you should punish people for being successful.

Well the picture vlade is painting is that we didnt fulfill our potential under Dave particularly post all star break.

I agree with that completely. We didnt and we had the tools to be much more

 

[LPKingsFan]

So how many wins next year will be needed to know if this was the right move?

Playoffs or bust.

 

[SLAB]

Yes look at Giles shooting at Stockton versus the Kings. Did you ever see Giles run a pick and pop? This issue wasn’t just our post all-star collapse but that collapse certainly didn’t help.

Yup... Giles was pretty clearly handcuffed on the main roster.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

What is dysfunctional about making a change that may be necessary?

Exactly right. These moves are designed to remove the dysfunction. That’s why he did it. People are crazy if they think Vlade is dumb enough to fire a coach after a 12-game improvement if there’s no underlying problems with said coach. But there were underlying problems with both DJ and Williams.

But the Nat’l media doesn’t know because they barely cover the team and don’t care about getting the real truth anyway. Furthermore, Vlade isn’t going to throw those guys under the bus and really tell the truth. He’s being political about it. Understandably so.

 

[fansinceday1]

Yes look at Giles shooting at Stockton versus the Kings. Did you ever see Giles run a pick and pop? This issue wasn’t just our post all-star collapse but that collapse certainly didn’t help.

Im sure the kings inability to deal with the zone didn't help one bit. The kings looked completely lost when the opposing team instituted the zone defense.

 

[ppine]

The Kings changed their playing style. They went from the 30th fastest team in the League to 2nd. That caught a lot of teams off guard, giving up 125 points, but scoring 130. By the All-Star Break, this was no secret. Good teams adjust. The Kings are young and they played a lot of 4th quarters like it. For awhile they had a secret weapon named Shumpert. He oozed confidence. He walked like he had it, he talked like he had it and played like he had it. Confidence can be contagious with young guys. Good luck next year winning 40 games with a new coach.

The Kings gave up an average of around 125 points a game against the best teams in the Western Conference, the ones that made the playoffs. That is way too many. We got outrebounded a lot. That needs to change. Otherwise next year the Kings will still not be able to beat any playoff bound teams not named San Antonio.

 

[sactowndog]

If I'm a GM of a plus .500 team and I make a couple of trades and make the roster stronger and the team gets worse, I'm going to look at the coach. If I'm a GM and I think one of our biggest holes is at the SF, and I trade a young developing SF for a seasoned vet SF, and the coach proceeds to play the new SF at the PF position, I'm going to think there is a disconnect. Could see this coming from a mile away.

Not to mention the trade for Burks. Like it or not Vlade and Dave were not on the same page and haven’t been for a while. For the organization to be successful they need to be. Dave made a number of decisions that made no sense. Not playing Giles even in blowouts, benching Beli and playing Barnes at PF. Vlade really has no choice. It was either his teams or Dave’s.


Vlade made the call as was his right. As Kings fans let’s all hope he is.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

I am all for Ettore Messina!!!!


According to The Athletic's Sam Amick, Messina "would definitely want the job"


It's been many years his names been thrown around for vacancies, and this young Kings team we have here.... what more could he ask for???


The Kings vacancy at head coach is a spot these other coaches would love to get offered... That chair on our bench is PRIME REAL ESTATE...

My only issue with Messina is would he connect well with our young players?

 

[ockingsfan]

I am all for Ettore Messina!!!!


According to The Athletic's Sam Amick, Messina "would definitely want the job"


It's been many years his names been thrown around for vacancies, and this young Kings team we have here.... what more could he ask for???


The Kings vacancy at head coach is a spot these other coaches would love to get offered... That chair on our bench is PRIME REAL ESTATE...

It seems you have a beat on Messina as a coach.

Do you know what type of coach he is? Is he a players coach or a hard ass? Would he be able to connect to this young team? Is he uptempo or half court? I hear is he an excellent X and O's coach.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

This is certainly news to me.

Grant said on radio in terms of the hiring of Joerger in 2016, that Vlade gave the OK for Joerger, insinuating he wasn’t the one who actually hired him.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Well the picture vlade is painting is that we didnt fulfill our potential under Dave particularly post all star break.

I agree with that completely. We didnt and we had the tools to be much more

It really does come down to post all star break. I hate to say it but we upgraded talent and he couldn't utilize it.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Idk if we’re a playoff team. The second half of this season put a pretty huge damper on my once sky high expectations.

Well did we fire the coach because the team underperformed, or did the team perform to what we should expect, in which case we fired the coach for other reasons?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If last night is the reason we fired Joerger, then we have MAJOR issues... Luckily that is not what happened, at-all..

To the extent that there was cause-and-effect between last night and the firing, it was much more likely in the opposite direction. Probably Joerger (and the team?) had an inkling he was getting canned, and so he (and the team?) didn't give a crap. It's not a proper excuse for last night, but it's not really that likely that last night precipitated the firing.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Assistant coaches will still be talked to. Fate not yet officially determined.

Interesting. I’d assume any new head coach would want to bring in their own crew, but maybe if it’s an assistant from another team (Spurs?) they’d want to keep a couple familiar faces for consistency.

 

[SLAB]

Other than the one guy screaming at Grant, the fans (at least the ones accepted into Grant's show) have been incredibly okay with this move.

 

[Livinthedream]

Interesting. I’d assume any new head coach would want to bring in their own crew, but maybe if it’s an assistant from another team (Spurs?) they’d want to keep a couple familiar faces for consistency.

I would think that the FO wants to talk to the coaches face-to-face, individually. They couldn't do it before the news broke. Essentially an exit interview.

 

[SacTownKid]

If I'm a GM of a plus .500 team and I make a couple of trades and make the roster stronger and the team gets worse, I'm going to look at the coach. If I'm a GM and I think one of our biggest holes is at the SF, and I trade a young developing SF for a seasoned vet SF, and the coach proceeds to play the new SF at the PF position, I'm going to think there is a disconnect. Could see this coming from a mile away.

And more importantly if you have a constant link directly to players then it changes a lot of things to. Some coaches do not like that style of GM'ing. As for Barnes, he can play PF but the problem was that you can't go small and attempt to grind teams out in the process. It totally defeats the purpose.

Now it's time to find a pick and roll coach that can properly make the most use out of the shooting and slashing the team has at it's disposal.

 

[206Fan]

It seems you have a beat on Messina as a coach.

Do you know what type of coach he is? Is he a players coach or a hard ass? Would he be able to connect to this young team? Is he uptempo or half court? I hear is he an excellent X and O's coach.

Everyone knows Messina is a hard ass. He's a typical European coach and while not everyone was a fan of it, but he brought results there.
https://www.mensbasketballhoopscoop.com/ettore-messina-zone-offense/

Coach Messina is a strong personality and was hard on his players. His teams always found success on defense. The NBA and Euroleague are different on the defensive end. The use of zones and other rules make that aspect of the game difficult to judge. Messina’s teams play slower than most and use an efficient half court offense with the emphasis on the lower block.

Messina is best known for his development of lower block players. He values low post scorers and gets the most out of them. Coach Messina is learning from one of the best coaches in the NBA. He is taking a page from Coach Popovich’s coaching style. He is getting ready to take over his NBA team very soon.

Here's an article from 2015 on Messina (1 year into his assistant job in the NBA) https://www.denverstiffs.com/2015/3/11/8189423/coachs-resume-a-look-at-ettore-messina

European coaches are known for being authoritative and unassailable which is one of the reasons that NBA teams have shied away from looking to Europe for coaching prospects. Messina seems to be no exception. He has a strong personality and, at least in Europe, was atough coach to play for. He famously cut several of Real Madrid’s star players upon arrival, electing to go with players that he felt were more malleable.
.... Messina’s teams also play a relatively slow pace by most European standards, preferring an efficient half court offense that plays through the post.
....He also states that his teams needed a minimum of 20 FGAs per game from the post. He talks about how the team should constantly look for opportunities to get the ball to the Center, where the defense is most forced to react. Messina is known for his development of post players and it seems clear from that article that he values low post players quite a bit. That isn’t to say that he only focuses on scoring from the post. His diagrams are full of all types of plays and the emphasis on getting the ball into the post seems more like "step 1" rather than the end goal. In a separate interview while with the Lakers, he talked about the importance of floor balance and ball movement.

 

[206Fan]

LOL GG to all the people who are happy Joerger is gone and want to bring in Messina. Unless he's chilled since joining Pop's staff(I doubt it considering Pop is the same way), I don't see a difference between him and Joerger in attitude and demeanor.