Harry Giles thread back on track ;)

[gunks]

As others have mentioned, despite his much needed energy and the usual flashes of brilliance on offense, Giles still looked lost on D.

Joerger is going to limit his minutes until he figures it out. He has a method to developing players. We all remember how frustrating it was seeing Fox and Buddy get benched for long periods of time last season, but look at them now. It should hopefully pan out the same way with Giles.

I do agree that the DNPs are frustrating, but we may end up seeing less of those in the near future if Giles continues to improve!

 

[jcassio]

I think he is hearing from management. I don’t think Joeger is fully on board yet. If he doesn’t get on board it could come down to Giles or Joeger.

Oh boy, another conspiracy theory!

 

[macadocious]

Well we all know Grant is the mouthpiece of management and DJ got fired from Memphis because he couldn’t get on the same page with management... let’s hope Dave doesn’t stubborn himself out the door.

So are you saying the rosy picture that Joerger and Vlade is painting about their relationship and how they feel about the roster is false? Or are you saying someone else (Cantenella or Vivek) is not aligned with Joerger?

 

[dude12]

As others have mentioned, despite his much needed energy and the usual flashes of brilliance on offense, Giles still looked lost on D.

Joerger is going to limit his minutes until he figures it out. He has a method to developing players. We all remember how frustrating it was seeing Fox and Buddy get benched for long periods of time last season, but look at them now. It should hopefully pan out the same way with Giles.

I do agree that the DNPs are frustrating, but we may end up seeing less of those in the near future if Giles continues to improve!

Glad there are others that see it too. There was one or two instances where I think he got in the way on offense in the last game. His potential is exciting. Joerger and staff does a fairly good job and bringing guys along and when it’s time for more minutes, they get more minutes. Harry just has to know what and where to go at all times and minutes will pick up significantly.

We’ve seen this play out already with previous guys. Seems like this is what is going on instead of these wild conspiracy theories. Didn’t we just go through all these wild theories a few weeks ago?

 

[dude12]

I think the exciting thing to look forward to is Giles and Bagley with a few years under their belt paired up with our guards. Exciting times but it’s going to get so much better.

 

[Blob]

Grant Napear just came out and said that Giles needs to be in the regular rotation. Hemmed and hawed like he usually does saying he respects Joerger and that Joerger just wants to win, but said that Giles is part of the core going into next year and as such needs the pt. Also said that "we don't know if WCS is going to be with the team next year." Christie chimed in and said essentially that looking forward to next year and trying to win this year are not mutually exclusive. As Giles showed last night, he can contribute to winning now.

The upshot for me is that this supports my idea of last night being a mini-watershed moment for Giles, and Napear is just adding onto to that with his comments. In my experience, most of the time (not all) Napear pipes up like this you will see what he wants reflected on the floor, not because he's directing the chorus, but my guess is he's hearing things from management and maybe coaching and he's just indirectly relaying that to the fans.

He speaks to Vlade "off the record" I would think. But even if he didn't it is not hard to conclude Willie's future with the team is in serious jeopardy. As I said in the other thread, if I could not trade him by the deadline I would rescind his qualifying offer. I don't want him back at any price. Skal has been a big disappointment too, but I am not so sure if he was given every minute that Willie has been given, his performance would not be equal or better.

 

[Kingsfan2002]

Giles still looked lost on D.
!

did you see that stat that WCS only "contested" 3 shots the whole last game? that was good for 3rd worst with Justin Jackson and 1 other with 2 attempts at contesting a shot. lol! WCS doesn't just look lost. he is lost, he's been lost. and its pathetic.

WCS is one of the worst defensive 5's in the league, and he should with his talent and skills be one of the best.

Im sorry but its about being FOCUSED and having a good MOTOR. with that guys with talent will eventually succeed, Giles at least has those 2 things WCS will never get it.

 

[Blob]

No, it doesn't. But the proof is in the pudding, which in this case is tonight's Denver game. If Giles is sitting on the bench all night then I just don't know what to tell you, other than Joerger is much more conservative than I am when it comes to injecting new blood into the lineup. It did take him quite a long while to get Yogi into the lineup, and as far as I know it remains a mystery why that was the case. It seems pretty clear that he errs on the side of stability and non-tinkering with the lineup, not so much on changing lineups.

I like Joerger. I hope he's around for many years to come. But I do sense from the last post-game interview that the guy is under a lot of pressure. Two games that got away doesn't make him a happy camper. You've got to wonder what message he's getting from management. Does he feel that his job is on the line if he doesn't make the playoffs? (Did they really move the goal post that much?) Does he feel that his job is on the line if he doesn't get more minutes for Giles in addition to Bagley when he comes back? Joerger has to juggle a lot of things with a young team that a coach with an experienced team doesn't have to juggle - winning at least enough to keep morale at a decent level, developing young players, incorporating young players into the lineup over time if warranted, and retaining team chemistry in the process. Now Joerger may feel that he has to add a playoff spot to the list. It's a lot to ask. I hope it works out that Giles and Bagley get a lot of playing time, that there isn't acrimony from vets because of it, and that the Kings get to the playoffs. But that's a pretty big objective and if Joerger doesn't quite get there I hope management is reasonable in their expectations.

Joerger is stubborn. He showed his stubbornness with Z-Bo last year. He stuck with him 1-2 months after many coaches would have seen enough. Part of his thought process I think is that he has invested a lot in Jackson and if he pulls him from the rotation, which I would have done long ago, he will shatter his already fragile confidence. If Giles is going to play back-up 4, it is likely going to come at the expense of Jackson minutes. Up to now Joerger is intent upon DNP-CD Giles unless the team is playing poorly. Then when the game is unraveling he throws him in to try to get the momentum flipped. And besides what does he have to lose when a loss seems imminent anyway? That is his mindset and that is what he did vs Blazers when we were down 14. He wasn't planning on playing Giles but we were stinking up the joint. Joerger may be so stubborn as to go into tonight's game with similar mindset. I think this is the wrong mindset to have, I would put Giles in first off the bench with Bogs, but I think this is how he thinks / strategizes.

 

[sactowndog]

So are you saying the rosy picture that Joerger and Vlade is painting about their relationship and how they feel about the roster is false? Or are you saying someone else (Cantenella or Vivek) is not aligned with Joerger?

All I will say is if the collective front office feels Giles we be very good, they see flashes in games to confirm their thinking and as the coach you disagree and refuse to give him minutes then something has to change.

Grant’s not saying what he is saying by accident. He is the mouth piece of the organization.

 

[sactowndog]

Glad there are others that see it too. There was one or two instances where I think he got in the way on offense in the last game. His potential is exciting. Joerger and staff does a fairly good job and bringing guys along and when it’s time for more minutes, they get more minutes. Harry just has to know what and where to go at all times and minutes will pick up significantly.

We’ve seen this play out already with previous guys. Seems like this is what is going on instead of these wild conspiracy theories. Didn’t we just go through all these wild theories a few weeks ago?

I don’t think anyone is saying Giles doesn’t have to improve. But you rarely improve with a DNP-CD.

 

[sactowndog]

did you see that stat that WCS only "contested" 3 shots the whole last game? that was good for 3rd worst with Justin Jackson and 1 other with 2 attempts at contesting a shot. lol! WCS doesn't just look lost. he is lost, he's been lost. and its pathetic.

WCS is one of the worst defensive 5's in the league, and he should with his talent and skills be one of the best.

Im sorry but its about being FOCUSED and having a good MOTOR. with that guys with talent will eventually succeed, Giles at least has those 2 things WCS will never get it.

Just to be clear. I think people are pro Giles and not neccisarily anti WCS. WCS’s future may well depend on the contract he is offered by other teams.

 

[gunks]

did you see that stat that WCS only "contested" 3 shots the whole last game? that was good for 3rd worst with Justin Jackson and 1 other with 2 attempts at contesting a shot. lol! WCS doesn't just look lost. he is lost, he's been lost. and its pathetic.

WCS is one of the worst defensive 5's in the league, and he should with his talent and skills be one of the best.

Im sorry but its about being FOCUSED and having a good MOTOR. with that guys with talent will eventually succeed, Giles at least has those 2 things WCS will never get it.

Well, WCS being a terrible interior defender doesn't automatically make Giles a good one. They can both suck.

I totally agree with the bolded. Giles is going to be fun as hell once he "gets it"!

For the record, I'm 100 percent rooting for the kid. I get pumped when he hits the floor. I just think some of you guys are getting a little impatient. This team has big plans for Giles. Baby steps.

 

[Kingsfan2002]

Just to be clear. I think people are pro Giles and not neccisarily anti WCS. WCS’s future may well depend on the contract he is offered by other teams.

I think that with every game there are less pro WCS people in general. its past ridiculous how bad he is other than catching lobs

 

[Kingster]

Napear just double-downed by saying that he doesn't think Giles is going to be seeing the G league anymore. He thinks he's going to be playing every game for the Kings. "Just my prediction," he says.

 

[Kingster]

Joerger is stubborn. He showed his stubbornness with Z-Bo last year. He stuck with him 1-2 months after many coaches would have seen enough. Part of his thought process I think is that he has invested a lot in Jackson and if he pulls him from the rotation, which I would have done long ago, he will shatter his already fragile confidence. If Giles is going to play back-up 4, it is likely going to come at the expense of Jackson minutes. Up to now Joerger is intent upon DNP-CD Giles unless the team is playing poorly. Then when the game is unraveling he throws him in to try to get the momentum flipped. And besides what does he have to lose when a loss seems imminent anyway? That is his mindset and that is what he did vs Blazers when we were down 14. He wasn't planning on playing Giles but we were stinking up the joint. Joerger may be so stubborn as to go into tonight's game with similar mindset. I think this is the wrong mindset to have, I would put Giles in first off the bench with Bogs, but I think this is how he thinks / strategizes.

I definitely think that Jackson is a factor. And maybe Bjelica's minutes could also be in jeopardy, which Joerger thinks could affect his play. There's definitely a domino effect that Joerger is considering.

 

[sactowndog]

Napear just double-downed by saying that he doesn't think Giles is going to be seeing the G league anymore. He thinks he's going to be playing every game for the Kings. "Just my prediction," he says.

Very interesting the disparity in comments between Dave and what your hear Grant say.

 

[The Effort Police]

Joerger is stubborn. He showed his stubbornness with Z-Bo last year. He stuck with him 1-2 months after many coaches would have seen enough. Part of his thought process I think is that he has invested a lot in Jackson and if he pulls him from the rotation, which I would have done long ago, he will shatter his already fragile confidence. If Giles is going to play back-up 4, it is likely going to come at the expense of Jackson minutes. Up to now Joerger is intent upon DNP-CD Giles unless the team is playing poorly. Then when the game is unraveling he throws him in to try to get the momentum flipped. And besides what does he have to lose when a loss seems imminent anyway? That is his mindset and that is what he did vs Blazers when we were down 14. He wasn't planning on playing Giles but we were stinking up the joint. Joerger may be so stubborn as to go into tonight's game with similar mindset. I think this is the wrong mindset to have, I would put Giles in first off the bench with Bogs, but I think this is how he thinks / strategizes.

I would argue that it's WCS Joerger is more invested in than anyone. He talked up WCS in the offseason like he was our most important player after Fox, talking about fitting in Bjelica as someone who will help WCS' offense. Which is right after we drafted a big at #2 and hyped up Giles to hell and back. The other night he was rather crusty in his interview after what was a big watershed moment for WCS; I think his pride was wounded by what WCS did (or didn't do). My guess is he's still thinking in terms of how a guy like Bagley (and Giles) fit with WCS, and not the other way around.

Not to say he isn't invested in Jackson because he is, but I think he's going with what he thinks works. Ironically Koufos' obvious regression from something that wasn't even all that in the first place and Ben McLemore-Justin Jackson small ball is going to torpedo our chances even more.

 

[Section 101]

I would argue that it's WCS Joerger is more invested in than anyone. He talked up WCS in the offseason like he was our most important player after Fox, talking about fitting in Bjelica as someone who will help WCS' offense. Which is right after we drafted a big at #2 and hyped up Giles to hell and back. The other night he was rather crusty in his interview after what was a big watershed moment for WCS; I think his pride was wounded by what WCS did (or didn't do). My guess is he's still thinking in terms of how a guy like Bagley (and Giles) fit with WCS, and not the other way around.

Not to say he isn't invested in Jackson because he is, but I think he's going with what he thinks works. Ironically Koufos' obvious regression from something that wasn't even all that in the first place and Ben McLemore-Justin Jackson small ball is going to torpedo our chances even more.

Coaching staff wants WCS gone.

 

[macadocious]

Coaching staff wants WCS gone.

Is this a statement or an assumption?

 

[jcassio]

To the 2-3 Kingsfans posters who continue to express concerns about Giles’ athletic ability,
I watched and re-watched the last game to see how Giles moved in comparison to other players. I invite any doubters to do the same. What you’ll find is that Giles has great quickness, both in explosive bursts and end to end runs, as well as side to side movement. In one play he and Willie were both running hard and Harry matched Willie’s speed. The dude is awesomely athletic. He’s not a broken version of what he might have been.

 

[Kingster]

Very interesting the disparity in comments between Dave and what your hear Grant say.

Yes, I just heard Grant interview with Joerger and Joerger wasn't committing at this point to regular playing time for Giles. He even insinuated somewhat that Bagley is a factor in the equation.

 

[dude12]

I don’t think anyone is saying Giles doesn’t have to improve. But you rarely improve with a DNP-CD.

I’m at a point where Joerger and staff have proven they know how to develop guys. In my eyes, he/they deserve a long leash and benefit of the doubt when it comes to development. However they do it, I’m on board with the big picture. At some point, this thread goes away because Harry is in the rotation.

Last game was encouraging......for one, Harry wasn’t committing a foul a minute.

 

[sactowndog]

I’m at a point where Joerger and staff have proven they know how to develop guys. In my eyes, he/they deserve a long leash and benefit of the doubt when it comes to development. However they do it, I’m on board with the big picture. At some point, this thread goes away because Harry is in the rotation.

Last game was encouraging......for one, Harry wasn’t committing a foul a minute.

And if Vlade and Dave aren’t on the same page whom do you trust?

 

[Suicide King]

And if Vlade and Dave aren’t on the same page whom do you trust?

Is there any evidence they are not on the same page? Genuinely curious.

 

[Turgenev]

Giles is starting to make a case for more playing time. He hasn't always made that case well. Moreover, given KK and WCS may not be with the team next year, you would assume that his playing time will continue to increase at a slow but steady rate between now and the end of next season. Although maybe not as immediate as all on the internet want, this is a positive.

In defense of DJ. He is not playing Zac, not playing a low tempo offense, and has the very young team competing for a playoff spot in the west. Under his staff - we have seen clear improvement from Fox, Buddy, JJ, MBIII AND Giles. Veteran players like Shump and Belly are more productive than they have been in previous seasons under different coaching staff.

It would be nice to see Giles play more regularly. But no need for pitchforks.

 

[Turgenev]

And if Vlade and Dave aren’t on the same page whom do you trust?

They're both doing their jobs pretty well mate.

 

[macadocious]

And if Vlade and Dave aren’t on the same page whom do you trust?

Just come out and say it. You think that Dave and Vlade are not on the same page.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Let’s not forget about Joerger possibly doing what he has been doing in order to “audition” some players to potential suitors in a trade scenario. If Jackson got benched earlier in the season, no one would want him. He’s shown some signs of life now and might be interesting enough for other teams to gamble on. Same holds true for KK (the vet still has it type of thing).

I’m pretty sure the Kings as a whole love Giles, but they know he isn’t quite ready so they are bringing him up slowly. Perhaps now we will see more of him. According to Grant, we might be seeing every game... which is both suspicious and curious.

 

[sactowndog]

Giles is starting to make a case for more playing time. He hasn't always made that case well. Moreover, given KK and WCS may not be with the team next year, you would assume that his playing time will continue to increase at a slow but steady rate between now and the end of next season. Although maybe not as immediate as all on the internet want, this is a positive.

In defense of DJ. He is not playing Zac, not playing a low tempo offense, and has the very young team competing for a playoff spot in the west. Under his staff - we have seen clear improvement from Fox, Buddy, JJ, MBIII AND Giles. Veteran players like Shump and Belly are more productive than they have been in previous seasons under different coaching staff.

It would be nice to see Giles play more regularly. But no need for pitchforks.

No one is coming out with pitchforks. I have been critical of Dave not playing Giles and, in my opinion, too short a bench. But as I said before this is a message board not a Kumbaya circle. Last I checked the last perfect person died 2000 years ago.

 

[Livinthedream]

Yes, I just heard Grant interview with Joerger and Joerger wasn't committing at this point to regular playing time for Giles. He even insinuated somewhat that Bagley is a factor in the equation.

Weird. This whole Giles thing has been strange. Some behind the scenes things going on.