UPDATE: Bulls match offer sheet for Zach LaVine (NEW Poll)

[ESP47]

But in regards to other FA’s, do you take a flyer on a Hezonja who can’t even get to the LaVine level on offense, Take a flyer on Parker who has been proven not able to play SF or take LaVine who we know can create his offense?

I’m not opposed to adding talent and I believe that Joerger can dial LaVine back on O, Bogi can play SF. We can put a quick team on the floor but defense would have to be addressed as a whole.....that’s where the coaching staff comes in.

Then again, like one post said, this may be the agent drumming up value.

One thing that bugs me lately and this isn't a shot at you or anything, is everyone's penchant to want to put together a team that's good in transition. The Kings average 10.4ppg in transition. Warriors lead the league at 18.8 with the Lakers 2nd at 17.5. Portland is last in the league at 8.4 and there are other playoff teams down at the bottom like San Antonio, Miami, Boston and Minnesota. Most teams are in the 10-15ppg range.

Basically people are wanting to build a team around 10-15% of the teams offensive output. It doesn't make sense to me. Foregoing half court offense, half court defense and transition defense to score 10-15ppg. I don't think it correlates to winning basketball in one way or another. We all know that the majority of the game is played in the half court and if you don't build a team that can score and defend in the half court, you don't win basketball games.

I know it's a very unpopular opinion but it's why I'm not a huge fan of Fox up until this point. He is elite at 10-15% of the game but is downright bad at 85-90% of the rest of it. Taking on more guys who are good for transition points isn't going to lead the team to wins. You need guys who can hold down the fort in the half court because that's where the overwhelmingly majority of the game is played.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Just no.

He’s bad post injury

Worse than both SGs we have, who both need to start as is

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Signing a guy who was 471 out of 521 in real plus minus in a career year...

Had a true shooting percentage < 50%...

Doesn't play any defense...

And has an injury history...

But signs him because he scored 34 on us, is such a Kings move. I believe that's called pulling a Mikki Moore.

 

[dude12]

One thing that bugs me lately and this isn't a shot at you or anything, is everyone's penchant to want to put together a team that's good in transition. The Kings average 10.4ppg in transition. Warriors lead the league at 18.8 with the Lakers 2nd at 17.5. Portland is last in the league at 8.4 and there are other playoff teams down at the bottom like San Antonio, Miami, Boston and Minnesota. Most teams are in the 10-15ppg range.

Basically people are wanting to build a team around 10-15% of the teams offensive output. It doesn't make sense to me. Foregoing half court offense, half court defense and transition defense to score 10-15ppg. I don't think it correlates to winning basketball in one way or another. We all know that the majority of the game is played in the half court and if you don't build a team that can score and defend in the half court, you don't win basketball games.

I know it's a very unpopular opinion but it's why I'm not a huge fan of Fox up until this point. He is elite at 10-15% of the game but is downright bad at 85-90% of the rest of it. Taking on more guys who are good for transition points isn't going to lead the team to wins. You need guys who can hold down the fort in the half court because that's where the overwhelmingly majority of the game is played.

Ok....so are we better at everything you listed by taking on a Hezonja or LaVine or neither? And I’m not necessarily saying we are going to be an elite team at running because we added another quick guy but on the contrary, we could become a very good half court offense with more weapons on the floor. I think we do that by adding guys who can handle and attack. We can say, let’s just go with Temple at the 2 because he’s good at defense but we know offensively we will not be very good.

And another point, and not picking on your comment, but I don’t necessarily agree with your breakdown with Fox as we saw Joerger put him in a learning situation most of the year with his half court offense and eventuallly added more pick and roll later in the year. I think we see a more open offense this year.

I think a LaVine makes us better offensively with more threats on the floor for 48 minutes. How many times did we have Buddy on the floor and he is the only offensive threat on the floor? I do agree with the comments on the defensive side but we would improve our offensive side in transition and HC I think.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Signing a guy who was 471 out of 521 in real plus minus in a career year...

Had a true shooting percentage < 50%...

Doesn't play any defense...

And has an injury history...

But signs him because he scored 34 on us, is such a Kings move. I believe that's called pulling a Mikki Moore.

But, but he was slam dunk champion and had hype pre injury...

I’m seriously questioning the assessment of some of the forum that their thinking doesn’t supersede that

Even if we didn’t have two solid SGs already, .... ?, you still wouldn’t fork over our cap to a player who may never be solid again

 

[Kingsfan23]

Ok....so are we better at everything you listed by taking on a Hezonja or LaVine or neither? And I’m not necessarily saying we are going to be an elite team at running because we added another quick guy but on the contrary, we could become a very good half court offense with more weapons on the floor. I think we do that by adding guys who can handle and attack. We can say, let’s just go with Temple at the 2 because he’s good at defense but we know offensively we will not be very good.

And another point, and not picking on your comment, but I don’t necessarily agree with your breakdown with Fox as we saw Joerger put him in a learning situation most of the year with his half court offense and eventuallly added more pick and roll later in the year. I think we see a more open offense this year.

I think a LaVine makes us better offensively with more threats on the floor for 48 minutes. How many times did we have Buddy on the floor and he is the only offensive threat on the floor? I do agree with the comments on the defensive side but we would improve our offensive side in transition and HC I think.

He’s been bad on offense post injury. Post injury he’s bad.

Buddy needs to start as is. There is no way to have Fox/Buddy/Bogi/Lavine on the floor

 

[midtowner]

He’s not a winner. It is not a position of need. He’s expensive. No thanks.

 

[Kingster]

I think LaVine is gold! LaVine has 1000x more talent than WCS. He's an outstanding defender when he puts his mind to it. I remember when he just shut down Collison (PG) like he was a scrub. And that was not an aberration. I've also seen him shut down Hood (SF), a good player in his own right. He has All Star potential. He would be a big upgrade at the SG for the Kings. All of that of course depends on if he's healthy. But if he is, then it's not even a close call of whether you want him or not. Of course you want him.

 

[Hansel]

Oh God, what's wrong with this franchise? One step forward, three steps back.

 

[Hallama]

I think LaVine is gold! LaVine has 1000x more talent than WCS. He's an outstanding defender when he puts his mind to it. I remember when he just shut down Collison (PG) like he was a scrub. And that was not an aberration. I've also seen him shut down Hood (SF), a good player in his own right. He has All Star potential. He would be a big upgrade at the SG for the Kings. All of that of course depends on if he's healthy. But if he is, then it's not even a close call of whether you want him or not. Of course you want him.

Adding talent sans the draft or trades is always a plus. If the Kings are targeting LaVine, Parker, or Hez I'm all for it even with risks. Kings have cap space this year and next so it's not that big of a gamble really.

I like those guys because they are all players that can make a leap, albeit Hez doesn't have as much overall potential as Parker and LaVine who are riskier but have some star potential.

Kings need wings and scorers. Do it.

 

[Jkbiker]

So GT opts in, 18.7 mil offer sheet to LeVine, by the time Chicago matches, Hezonja signs with Nets, Chandler and a pick goes to another team, and all we have left is bad contracts for a 2019 pick which never comes, and we end up with crap veteran for one year to get us to min salary

Typical Kings FA season

 

[Hallama]

Kings can waive and stretch Shump if they want some more cap. If JKbiker's prophecy comes through (above) then the Kings always have plan B of absorbing contracts for picks or whatever, but I'm dubious about that with this FO. They never seem to see the quarter behind the nickel.

 

[Blob]

I think LaVine is gold! LaVine has 1000x more talent than WCS. He's an outstanding defender when he puts his mind to it. I remember when he just shut down Collison (PG) like he was a scrub. And that was not an aberration. I've also seen him shut down Hood (SF), a good player in his own right. He has All Star potential. He would be a big upgrade at the SG for the Kings. All of that of course depends on if he's healthy. But if he is, then it's not even a close call of whether you want him or not. Of course you want him.

I kind of liken LaVine to Devin Booker. Young super confident scorer who hasn't put it all together yet to lead a a team anywhere but has moments that tantalize. Can be part of something special with more maturity and focus. When I see a player like Bagley who can destroy opponents on one end I know he has it in him to play capable defense on the other end. The same case could be made for LaVine. The argument against LaVine is he's a SG and we don't need another one. Perhaps but he looks long enough to play SF to me. The game that I broke down earlier in this thread he did not seem to have much issue going up against Wiggins and Butler. It is not like he was dwarfed out there. He filled out during his rehab looks 10-15 pounds heavier. I haven't seen the defensive prowess you cite but I'll take your word for it.

 

[206Fan]

One thing that bugs me lately and this isn't a shot at you or anything, is everyone's penchant to want to put together a team that's good in transition. The Kings average 10.4ppg in transition. Warriors lead the league at 18.8 with the Lakers 2nd at 17.5. Portland is last in the league at 8.4 and there are other playoff teams down at the bottom like San Antonio, Miami, Boston and Minnesota. Most teams are in the 10-15ppg range.

Basically people are wanting to build a team around 10-15% of the teams offensive output. It doesn't make sense to me. Foregoing half court offense, half court defense and transition defense to score 10-15ppg. I don't think it correlates to winning basketball in one way or another. We all know that the majority of the game is played in the half court and if you don't build a team that can score and defend in the half court, you don't win basketball games.

I know it's a very unpopular opinion but it's why I'm not a huge fan of Fox up until this point. He is elite at 10-15% of the game but is downright bad at 85-90% of the rest of it. Taking on more guys who are good for transition points isn't going to lead the team to wins. You need guys who can hold down the fort in the half court because that's where the overwhelmingly majority of the game is played.

I get that you wouldn't be a big fan of signing LaVine, so I won't try to convince you otherwise, but one of the biggest reasons I covet him so highly is because of his ability to score in the 1/2 court. His slashing ability seems to be underrated by many, but he's got the ball handling and first-step to get all the way to the rim, something we lack from Buddy and Bogdan.

Signing a guy who was 471 out of 521 in real plus minus in a career year...

Had a true shooting percentage < 50%...

Doesn't play any defense...

And has an injury history...

But signs him because he scored 34 on us, is such a Kings move. I believe that's called pulling a Mikki Moore.

LaVine has a TS% <50? huh? oh you mean this year when he played only 24 games and was recovering from injury... His TS% was at 49.9%? He has a career TS% of 54%.

Fox is ranked 503/521 in RPM. What does that say about him?

 

[Hallama]

Elephant in the room is maybe the Kings FO and Joeger may not have Hield in the longterm plan here. Or maybe rather, Hield is looking for a bigger role than the Kings think he can handle.

 

[Blob]

One thing that bugs me lately and this isn't a shot at you or anything, is everyone's penchant to want to put together a team that's good in transition. The Kings average 10.4ppg in transition. Warriors lead the league at 18.8 with the Lakers 2nd at 17.5. Portland is last in the league at 8.4 and there are other playoff teams down at the bottom like San Antonio, Miami, Boston and Minnesota. Most teams are in the 10-15ppg range.

Basically people are wanting to build a team around 10-15% of the teams offensive output. It doesn't make sense to me. Foregoing half court offense, half court defense and transition defense to score 10-15ppg. I don't think it correlates to winning basketball in one way or another. We all know that the majority of the game is played in the half court and if you don't build a team that can score and defend in the half court, you don't win basketball games.

I know it's a very unpopular opinion but it's why I'm not a huge fan of Fox up until this point. He is elite at 10-15% of the game but is downright bad at 85-90% of the rest of it. Taking on more guys who are good for transition points isn't going to lead the team to wins. You need guys who can hold down the fort in the half court because that's where the overwhelmingly majority of the game is played.

You are misinterpreting stats. Just because a team generates around 10-15% of offense from fast breaks does not mean speed is unimportant 85-90% of the time. It is such a silly perspective I don't even want to entertain it. Basketball is a game of speed and strength and execution (fundamentals). Speed and strength are foundational aspects to success because they enable a player to get to advantageous spots on the floor. It is simple. If you are strong and quick you beat your man to desired spot to score or keep him from scoring. You take lanes yourself and you take lanes away from him. You deny him where you want to go and you get to where you want to go with speed and strength to command your space on the floor. So speed is NOT just an relevant variable on fast breaks. It is important everywhere in every situation. When you effectively say Fox is fast but "so what" it only counts 10-15% of the time you don't seem to understand the nature of the sport. Fox needs to stronger to command his space better on the floor. Thats where his growth is going to occur. It is not "speed is overrated." it is "superior speed and strength (with fundamentals) is devastating". This is the realistic perspective. Fast twitch athletes have an advantage. Fast twitch strong athletes have a massive advantage. Fast twitch strong athletes with the fundamentals mastered are the best in the league.

 

[Reverend]

I kind of liken LaVine to Devin Booker. Young super confident scorer who hasn't put it all together yet to lead a a team anywhere but has moments that tantalize. Can be part of something special with more maturity and focus. When I see a player like Bagley who can destroy opponents on one end I know he has it in him to play capable defense on the other end. The same case could be made for LaVine. The argument against LaVine is he's a SG and we don't need another one. Perhaps but he looks long enough to play SF to me. The game that I broke down earlier in this thread he did not seem to have much issue going up against Wiggins and Butler. It is not like he was dwarfed out there. He filled out during his rehab looks 10-15 pounds heavier. I haven't seen the defensive prowess you cite but I'll take your word for it.

I was thinking the same about him playing 3. It might be possible to use Bogie and LaVine switch between 2 and 3 depending on the matchup. I think LaVine has the athleticism to cover up what Bogie lacks and Bogie the strength and height/length to balance eachother out defensively. Would definitely make our team super athletic and exciting to watch get up and down the court between Fox-LaVine-Bagley

 

[Kingsfan23]

I get that you wouldn't be a big fan of signing LaVine, so I won't try to convince you otherwise, but one of the biggest reasons I covet him so highly is because of his ability to score in the 1/2 court. His slashing ability seems to be underrated by many, but he's got the ball handling and first-step to get all the way to the rim, something we lack from Buddy and Bogdan.


LaVine has a TS% <50? huh? oh you mean this year when he played only 24 games and was recovering from injury... His TS% was at 49.9%? He has a career TS% of 54%.

Fox is ranked 503/521 in RPM. What does that say about him?

That’s what he means, because that is what we have to go by, post injury.

 

[206Fan]

That’s what he means, because that is what we have to go by, post injury.

It was a 24 game sample size though. Plus, we have to take those stats with the assumption that he was still rusty from not playing basketball for a year. Career stats are more telling. 49.99999% isn't >50%, but that's just completely nitpicking.

 

[Kingster]

I kind of liken LaVine to Devin Booker. Young super confident scorer who hasn't put it all together yet to lead a a team anywhere but has moments that tantalize. Can be part of something special with more maturity and focus. When I see a player like Bagley who can destroy opponents on one end I know he has it in him to play capable defense on the other end. The same case could be made for LaVine. The argument against LaVine is he's a SG and we don't need another one. Perhaps but he looks long enough to play SF to me. The game that I broke down earlier in this thread he did not seem to have much issue going up against Wiggins and Butler. It is not like he was dwarfed out there. He filled out during his rehab looks 10-15 pounds heavier. I haven't seen the defensive prowess you cite but I'll take your word for it.

I don't buy the "we don't need him because we have our SGs" excuse. Last time I checked we weren't stacked with All Stars at that position. We get a couple of solid two guards and we put the brakes on getting better at the position? What's up with that? When LaVine was in college I called him "Superboy." Unfortunately, the injury derailed him from becoming Superman. If healthy, he can guard many small forwards in this league (sans LBJ and Durant of course), and two guards, and point guards. I haven't just seen him defend players, I've seen him stop players. I don't know where this opinion came from about him not being able to defend. Probably because he turns it on more at the end of games rather than throughout the game. Maybe there is a commitment problem. But if healthy, I can assure you, there is no capability problem. On offense he's an absolute flier. You put him at the wing with Fox and it's get ready for liftoff. If I'm the GM, the only question I have about him is his health. The injury was serious and has to be taken very seriously in the evaluation.

 

[LA King Fan II]

Seen him play a lot, and put me solidly in the Lavine "yes" group. I think he has star talent and would be fun to watch. I don't think he's a selfish player either.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Winning ball to me is playing team basketball and team defense while knowing your role in the team. I belive Hezonja can do that LaVine on the other hand is a shot happy non defender.

Also how would he even fit whose gonna play SF Bogdan shouldn’t be doing that for more than 15-20mpg

I agree with your definition about winning basketball.

 

[Blob]

I don't buy the "we don't need him because we have our SGs" excuse. Last time I checked we weren't stacked with All Stars at that position. We get a couple of solid two guards and we put the brakes on getting better at the position? What's up with that? When LaVine was in college I called him "Superboy." Unfortunately, the injury derailed him from becoming Superman. If healthy, he can guard many small forwards in this league (sans LBJ and Durant of course), and two guards, and point guards. I haven't just seen him defend players, I've seen him stop players. I don't know where this opinion came from about him not being able to defend. Probably because he turns it on more at the end of games rather than throughout the game. Maybe there is a commitment problem. But if healthy, I can assure you, there is no capability problem. On offense he's an absolute flier. You put him at the wing with Fox and it's get ready for liftoff. If I'm the GM, the only question I have about him is his health. The injury was serious and has to be taken very seriously in the evaluation.

One reason I was very happy with our draft is we now have two superior athletes (Fox, Bagley) to go with two average athletes with superior skill (Boggy, Buddy). If we added another average athlete (Luka) to our core would have become more susceptible to half court and propensity of the preferred style of the coach. Now he has to adjust his ways or be replaced. He has no choice but to install a system dedicated to pace. Add to this core other superior athletes who happen to be able to play the game like Mario and LaVine and you can see the vision for this team taking shape. Our draft was a justified vote of confidence for De'Aaron Fox. Free agency should be no different.

LaVine has appeal to take pressure off of Bagley to become a 20 PPG guy right away. He takes shots away from Willie trying to razzle and dazzle and throw up trash. Shot distribution can never be perfected but if your offense is demanding Willie and Giles to be consistent low post threats, or Fox or Bagley to be 20 PPG from Day One, you are asking for trouble. The Kings have yet to define their dominant scorer. That may be Bagley. But if you can give him help with LaVine the collective burden is decreased. The dominant scoring option can emerge organically.

There's philosophy the most precious commodity in the NBA is being able to generate your own offense. The most difficult thing to do is score efficiently and indirectly help your teammates to do the same. Ascribe to this theory then go get guys you envision can do this. At some point you can have too many scorers. When you add a high usage player to a team with a high usage player (like the Thunder did with Melo), you ask for trouble. The Kings are not there yet. In this context LaVine makes sense.

I wonder at what point the price for LaVine becomes too high for the Bulls? I hope if we have to overpay to get him we still have cap space to add Mario too. An off season of Bagley, Mario and LaVine would qualify Vlade for 2019 Executive of the Year

 

[Kingsfan23]

I don't buy the "we don't need him because we have our SGs" excuse. Last time I checked we weren't stacked with All Stars at that position. We get a couple of solid two guards and we put the brakes on getting better at the position? What's up with that? When LaVine was in college I called him "Superboy." Unfortunately, the injury derailed him from becoming Superman. If healthy, he can guard many small forwards in this league (sans LBJ and Durant of course), and two guards, and point guards. I haven't just seen him defend players, I've seen him stop players. I don't know where this opinion came from about him not being able to defend. Probably because he turns it on more at the end of games rather than throughout the game. Maybe there is a commitment problem. But if healthy, I can assure you, there is no capability problem. On offense he's an absolute flier. You put him at the wing with Fox and it's get ready for liftoff. If I'm the GM, the only question I have about him is his health. The injury was serious and has to be taken very seriously in the evaluation.

We ‘can’ get better at SG. I’m sure we could even get better at PG and maybe PF if we tried. I don’t think anyone is claiming Buddy/Bogdan to be franchise players, although they are significantly underrated I find here, but it’s more about asset location. We have a finite amount of funds, and so I think it’s natural for some to want them to go to the weakest positions. Maybe the complexion of that changes if you have more confidence than I do some of the players at the weakest positions.

But, I’m also seeing a discrepancy on how Buddy is viewed by the forum. The way he finished the season, improving rapidly on both ends and being a threat to drop 20 every night, I have the belief that he can be a 18/5/3, super efficient starting SG, arguable with even a healthy LaVine. Maybe others see it different, and in fact do just view him as a replaceable bench microwave.

There is also the notion of his health. The only thing we know, and will know upon paying him, is he was bad post injury. To gamble a healthy contract on such a question mark would not go over well if he continues to be bad, by a lot of the fan base and I’m sure to Vivek

 

[Jkbiker]

One reason I was very happy with our draft is we now have two superior athletes (Fox, Bagley) to go with two average athletes with superior skill (Boggy, Buddy). If we added another average athlete (Luka) to our core would have become more susceptible to half court and propensity of the preferred style of the coach. Now he has to adjust his ways or be replaced. He has no choice but to install a system dedicated to pace. Add to this core other superior athletes who happen to be able to play the game like Mario and LaVine and you can see the vision for this team taking shape. Our draft was a justified vote of confidence for De'Aaron Fox. Free agency should be no different.

LaVine has appeal to take pressure off of Bagley to become a 20 PPG guy right away. He takes shots away from Willie trying to razzle and dazzle and throw up trash. Shot distribution can never be perfected but if your offense is demanding Willie and Giles to be consistent low post threats, or Fox or Bagley to be 20 PPG from Day One, you are asking for trouble. The Kings have yet to define their dominant scorer. That may be Bagley. But if you can give him help with LaVine the collective burden is decreased. The dominant scoring option can emerge organically.

There's philosophy the most precious commodity in the NBA is being able to generate your own offense. The most difficult thing to do is score efficiently and indirectly help your teammates to do the same. Ascribe to this theory then go get guys you envision can do this. At some point you can have too many scorers. When you add a high usage player to a team with a high usage player (like the Thunder did with Melo), you ask for trouble. The Kings are not there yet. In this context LaVine makes sense.

I wonder at what point the price for LaVine becomes too high for the Bulls? I hope if we have to overpay to get him we still have cap space to add Mario too. An off season of Bagley, Mario and LaVine would qualify Vlade for 2019 Executive of the Year

We will find out today! If GT opts out and we take the 26.7 mil cap space and offer 20mil to Lavine and 6.7 to Mario? and get them both?
I would be doing the Happy Dance!!
Fox,Mason,15th spot min contr(Summer league)
Zach,Buddy,Shump
Mario,Bogdan,JJ
Bagley,Skal,Zbo
Giles,WCS,KK

 

[24 rick barry]

Zak, How significant is his knee injury and recovery from surgery? Quite worrisome to me.

Though not under consideration since we have so many more needs plus we have some good players there. Buddy can light it up. Has a quick release too. He just needs a little daylight. Boggie is more than adequate too. This is not our problem. Rather, we need a 3 and a 5 and we only can hope that one of the young cast of 4's can be a feared 3 point shooter.

 

[ESP47]

Ok....so are we better at everything you listed by taking on a Hezonja or LaVine or neither? And I’m not necessarily saying we are going to be an elite team at running because we added another quick guy but on the contrary, we could become a very good half court offense with more weapons on the floor. I think we do that by adding guys who can handle and attack. We can say, let’s just go with Temple at the 2 because he’s good at defense but we know offensively we will not be very good.

And another point, and not picking on your comment, but I don’t necessarily agree with your breakdown with Fox as we saw Joerger put him in a learning situation most of the year with his half court offense and eventuallly added more pick and roll later in the year. I think we see a more open offense this year.

I think a LaVine makes us better offensively with more threats on the floor for 48 minutes. How many times did we have Buddy on the floor and he is the only offensive threat on the floor? I do agree with the comments on the defensive side but we would improve our offensive side in transition and HC I think.

I don't disagree at all that LaVine will go out and score. He's proven that he can put points on the board in a hurry. I just don't like the fact that he's had a breakout year and that breakout year was Wiggins like as far as how much it helped win games. Realistically, how much further up do you think he can improve from that, post ACL? I'm not necessarily pro Hezonja but I can make an argument for him. Basically Hezonja hasn't had a break out year and he may not ever have one either. But if Hezonja can put up 12ppg and get his 3pt% to around 38% and improve his defense a little bit from where he's at, he will more than likely statistically be able to contribute to wins at the same level or better than a 19, 3 and 3 year from LaVine will. Personally I don't think that's asking for a lot from Hezonja but there is no guarantee he can do that. What it also does is fill a hole in the roster at SF while still allowing our two SGs to play at SG while sharing time at SF against backup SFs...which should have much better matchups for them since they will be playing out of position. Not to mention Hezonja will command less money and less years in case it doesn't work out.

I get exactly where you're coming from with LaVine giving us another threat and dimension on offense but I don't like the fact that he needs the ball in his hands a lot, he plays about as bad of defense as you can get and he plays a redundant position for us. With LaVine you'll now have to either cut Buddy/Bogdan's minutes short or you'll have to play them out of position at SF. Some people want to play LaVine at SF so now you're taking one of the worst defending SGs and playing him at a position he will be even worse at defending. At some point, someone has to be able to play some defense out on the perimeter.

I get that you wouldn't be a big fan of signing LaVine, so I won't try to convince you otherwise, but one of the biggest reasons I covet him so highly is because of his ability to score in the 1/2 court. His slashing ability seems to be underrated by many, but he's got the ball handling and first-step to get all the way to the rim, something we lack from Buddy and Bogdan.


LaVine has a TS% <50? huh? oh you mean this year when he played only 24 games and was recovering from injury... His TS% was at 49.9%? He has a career TS% of 54%.

Fox is ranked 503/521 in RPM. What does that say about him?

He absolutely can slash in the half court and that's one of my favorite things about his game but it doesn't make up for his weaknesses IMO.

You are misinterpreting stats. Just because a team generates around 10-15% of offense from fast breaks does not mean speed is unimportant 85-90% of the time. It is such a silly perspective I don't even want to entertain it. Basketball is a game of speed and strength and execution (fundamentals). Speed and strength are foundational aspects to success because they enable a player to get to advantageous spots on the floor. It is simple. If you are strong and quick you beat your man to desired spot to score or keep him from scoring. You take lanes yourself and you take lanes away from him. You deny him where you want to go and you get to where you want to go with speed and strength to command your space on the floor. So speed is NOT just an relevant variable on fast breaks. It is important everywhere in every situation. When you effectively say Fox is fast but "so what" it only counts 10-15% of the time you don't seem to understand the nature of the sport. Fox needs to stronger to command his space better on the floor. Thats where his growth is going to occur. It is not "speed is overrated." it is "superior speed and strength (with fundamentals) is devastating". This is the realistic perspective. Fast twitch athletes have an advantage. Fast twitch strong athletes have a massive advantage. Fast twitch strong athletes with the fundamentals mastered are the best in the league.

Fox has yet to show that he can use his speed with any sort of consistency in the half court. In fact, it was rarely used in the half court at all. I'm not saying that speed is pointless. I'm saying that it's not nearly as important as being a good player in the half court. If all Fox can do is go coast to coast once a game and everything else he does is below average, then he's not going to be a good player. If all Bagley can do is leak out for transition points and be a garbage man under the rim, he's not going to be a good player. I completely agree with your last sentence there but I'm not going to draft guys based on whether they run fast or not because running is such a small part of the game. LaVine can run fast and jump as high as anyone but that doesn't help his defense a lick. It didn't help Bagley's defense in college. Transition is a very small part of the game but people talk it up like it's very important.

You heard Joerger yelling "run run run" all last year but that doesn't mean jack because you still have to set up a half court play 90% of the time. There is no one way to win but simply being a running team doesn't equate to wins at all. You need skills to back that up. The Warriors are great because they run but they have elite skills at nearly every position that back that up. If they didn't run, they'd still be in the conference finals or finals every year but the running makes their elite skills even harder to handle for opposing defenses. The Kings don't have many players with elite skills so there's nothing to run towards right now other than the next half court set 90% of the time. Give me players that can execute that 90% at an above average level and I'll beat your transition players 10 out of 10 times.

 

[Kingster]

One reason I was very happy with our draft is we now have two superior athletes (Fox, Bagley) to go with two average athletes with superior skill (Boggy, Buddy). If we added another average athlete (Luka) to our core would have become more susceptible to half court and propensity of the preferred style of the coach. Now he has to adjust his ways or be replaced. He has no choice but to install a system dedicated to pace. Add to this core other superior athletes who happen to be able to play the game like Mario and LaVine and you can see the vision for this team taking shape. Our draft was a justified vote of confidence for De'Aaron Fox. Free agency should be no different.

LaVine has appeal to take pressure off of Bagley to become a 20 PPG guy right away. He takes shots away from Willie trying to razzle and dazzle and throw up trash. Shot distribution can never be perfected but if your offense is demanding Willie and Giles to be consistent low post threats, or Fox or Bagley to be 20 PPG from Day One, you are asking for trouble. The Kings have yet to define their dominant scorer. That may be Bagley. But if you can give him help with LaVine the collective burden is decreased. The dominant scoring option can emerge organically.

There's philosophy the most precious commodity in the NBA is being able to generate your own offense. The most difficult thing to do is score efficiently and indirectly help your teammates to do the same. Ascribe to this theory then go get guys you envision can do this. At some point you can have too many scorers. When you add a high usage player to a team with a high usage player (like the Thunder did with Melo), you ask for trouble. The Kings are not there yet. In this context LaVine makes sense.

I wonder at what point the price for LaVine becomes too high for the Bulls? I hope if we have to overpay to get him we still have cap space to add Mario too. An off season of Bagley, Mario and LaVine would qualify Vlade for 2019 Executive of the Year

I agree with all of that. Divac is driving the bus on this one. He said he wants to play fast and he's looking to make personnel changes accordingly. If one connects the dots, not only is he looking to add players that play fast, it makes sense that he is looking to subtract players that don't play fast (e.g. Randolph, and even the fast but motorless WCS). And like you said, he's not going to abide a coach who does not play fast if the roster is filled with players who are suited to playing fast. Joerger better brush up on how to run a fast break, and he better emphasize it in practice this year if he knows what's good for him. I don't want to see next year's team getting a defensive rebound and having this look of uncertainty about what to do with ball after they get it. Even if this team gets 30 turnovers a game in its first 10 games of the season because they are playing fast and are on a learning curve because of it, I'll take it. Just put the vehicle in 5th gear and burn some rubber!

And I'll add another point to the athleticism theme. I think that there is such a thing as "critical mass" when it comes to athleticism on your team. When you have just a couple of athletes in the starting five it is just a 2/5ths effect. When you have four or five athletes to your starting five I believe there is a multiplier effect, and you get more than just 4/5ths or 5/5ths effect. It's like their quickness feeds off of each other. Now that there is Fox, Bagley, and probably Giles, if you add a healthy LaVine you're going to super-charge this team's athleticism.

 

[kingsfan1984]

If he could stay healthy maybr....but dudes been hurt as much as parker

Would much rather take on bad cap space for assets.

Perhaps work something with denver for faried and porter

 

[dude12]

IF we land Lavine, my take is that it pushes Mason/Jackson to less minutes. Depending on matchups, I think we see Fox, Lavine, Bogi with Hield off the bench and Bogi playing some PG or Lavine playing some 3 and then Mason or Jackson or a vet getting run depending on matchup.

I think bottom line is Lavine adds more talent to this group and in the half court we would be better and I trust the coaching staff to bring it together.