Michael Porter Jr

[ESP47]

A lot of people are looking for him to be able to take guys off the dribble and get all the way to the rim but that's not going to be his bread and butter. That's really not the bread and butter of 95% of the guys his size either. I think he was working on something in that video where he goes 1 on 1 with DSJ because he has DSJ completely turned around and off balance on one of those plays and could have had a clear path to the basket but he pulled up for the jumper anyway. He's not doing that in the real game highlights.

Some things that impress me from those videos. His body control once he leaps looks impressive to me. He has an array of moves around the basket to get his defender off balance. He's also not afraid to get in there and do the dirty work and he's no slouch on the boards. For a skinny kid who plays with finesse, he has a bit of toughness to him as well. Playing with a chip on his shoulder should help that.

 

[kingsboi]

We have the Nike Hoop Summit, McDonald's All-American game. All of which happened last year before his surgery. Going further back, we have his U-18 games, the games he played alongisde Fultz, Bamba, Young, and more.

It's not like we don't know what Porter Jr is capable of, we have actual film of him at high level competitions where he faced all the top guys in this year's class. The guy you described sounds more like Harry Giles who some delusional fans have already crowned as our franchise savior.

There's plenty of tape on MPJ. Yes there's no college tape except from the 2 games he came back from injury, but there is plenty of tape on him playing at high level competitions.

I'm not looking at performances in high school whether it's the McDonalds scrimmage pick up game or the scrimmage Hoop Summit game....you can base what type of player he is when he has to play in a more organized setting such as College where you run plays and there is no individual performances to boost your draft status. I'm not knocking on Porter, I liked him for the whole year too despite not being able to watch him play but to draft him at number two is a no no for me and if I were to take a chance on a project player, it wouldn't be Porter but that's just me.

 

[kingsboi]

Okay please explain this logic....

Statement 1: we have no college tape to go by and evaluate him.

Statement 2: he isn’t a scorer from day 1 as you seem to believe

Without statement 1 on what basis can you make statement 2?

when you indicate that he is a scorer...I presume you mean somewhere in the range of 18-20 PPG out of the gate? With that said, he hasn't played in quite some time and that's just my own personal belief based on what we know right now, which isn't much but some scrimmage games he played in high school.

 

[Joshoua]

I'm not looking at performances in high school whether it's the McDonalds scrimmage pick up game or the scrimmage Hoop Summit game....you can base what type of player he is when he has to play in a more organized setting such as College where you run plays and there is no individual performances to boost your draft status. I'm not knocking on Porter, I liked him for the whole year too despite not being able to watch him play but to draft him at number two is a no no for me and if I were to take a chance on a project player, it wouldn't be Porter but that's just me.

He wasn’t even impressive in the McDonald’s game

 

[kingsboi]

He wasn’t even impressive in the McDonald’s game

tell that to your boy over there who's praising Porter as the next KD, not me

 

[ParniValjak]

Anyone not seeing a scoring threat from close, mid range and from behind the arc is just not watching, or refusing to see it! The kid is a scorer. Plenty of questions that should be asked and need to be answered but this kid is a scoring threat.

 

[dude12]

Anyone not seeing a scoring threat from close, mid range and from behind the arc is just not watching, or refusing to see it! The kid is a scorer. Plenty of questions that should be asked and need to answered but this kid is a scoring threat.

Yeah....the criticism of Porter is almost over the top funny. The kid has ability.

 

[King Baller]

I've seen a lot of misinformation about MPJ scattered all over across Bagley and Doncic threads. MPJ is one of the most scouted players ever. He's not an unknown or someone who solely just dominated on 5'9 highschoolers.

He won MVP of the McDonald's All-American game. You want to know who participated in that event? DeAndre Ayton, Jaren Jackson Jr, Mo Bamba, Trae Young, Wendall Carter Jr, Collin Sexton, Kevin Knox, Gary Trent Jr, Troy Brown Jr, Lonnie Walker, Mitchell Robinson, Trevon Duval, and more. All of whom are projected to be drafted in the 1st round this year.

No disrespect but that McDonalds AA game looked a lot like summer league. Players just out to "get theirs."

 

[VF21]

Yeah....the criticism of Porter is almost over the top funny. The kid has ability.

Let's be real here. Almost every player named has at least one or two people guilty of "over the top funny" criticism. I'm enjoying it, though. So much more fun than the crickets of years past.

 

[VF21]

No disrespect but that McDonalds AA game looked a lot like summer league. Players just out to "get theirs."

You mean like in the NBA All-Star game?

 

[Blob]

Yeah....the criticism of Porter is almost over the top funny. The kid has ability.

There is a cognitive bias with this kid because he hasn't played. Therefore he can become anyone you want in your mind. He can become the highest version of player you want because there is sparse statistical evidence outside three games (in which he looked terrible) to refute fantasy.

Its a mental flaw that operates below consciousness that you use against yourself to delude into false thinking. Instead of seeing the relatively obvious, that is, Bagley should be the pick, unless the Suns take Doncic, which in case Ayton becomes the pick.

I am going to get technical for a moment to make my point why this kid is trash and should have returned to school.

Okay follow with me. Porter is a shooter. There are two ways you can shoot in a grand sense. (1) Off the catch. (2) Off the bounce. A subset of (2) is the hesitation dribble or what is affectionately termed the "hesi". This is a high degree of difficulty shot. I don't like it. I am not impressed. 35% of those shots go in. Most go clank.

Now why is this a hard shot and why do players take it? A hesi-dribble consists of contorting your body and faking as if you are about to drive to the hoop then in one motion picking up your dribble and shooting. Thats not easy. Contorting and shooting in one motion is not easy. LeBron does it. Tatum does it. Buddy does it. KD does it.

I believe this move was "invented" by Melo and players started to mimic him. Of course Melo is a talented guy but never a high efficiency scorer. If this is predominant aspect to your offensive arsenal, as appears the case with Porter, you are a sub 40% shooter.

So this shot is in Porters repertoire. Because he is tall he has the freedom to get this shot often against most defenders. Hesi and launch and brick! There is NO distinct advantage gained as with his dribble drive or crossover or jab step or shot off the catch after crisp ball movement. This is the type of game fans are drooling over?

Porter is not the next KD. He is a poor mans Rudy Gay. But I leave you with this word of encouragement for fans of his. I would NOT put it past this front office to pick him. Vlade is the worst GM in all of sport. Why wouldn't he make an awful decision and take Porter over Bagley? Thats what the worst at their job do.

 

[bajaden]

It's amazing to me how Porter is either the next coming, or a bum. I guess we all have our favorites, and some feel the need to denigrate some players in order to promote their favorite. I don't feel it's an either/or type of thing. There are several players that I think would be a good fit on the Kings. Porter could be one one of those if his medicals check out.

If were going to be honest about Porter, then we have to admit that there was a reason he was considered, pre-injury, the number one highschool player in the nation by most college and NBA scouts. One scout that I know said he considered Porter the best SF prospect to come along since Durant. Who by the way was a skinny 6'10" kid who couldn't bench press 185 pounds once at the combine. He certainly had his critics as well at the time.

So am I implying that Porter is the next coming of Durant? No, of course not, but then we really don't know, do we? Porter is not my favorite player in this draft, but I'll admit that sometimes my favorite isn't the player I think will or could be the best. I put a lot of emphasis on fit, and by fit, I'm not talking about position, but the skills I'm looking for, that I think fit what the team is trying to build. I could expound for hours on the subject, so I'll just leave it at that.

Porter if healthy, and if he's been able to regain his athleticism and skills, could be a great fit on the Kings. Not my favorite fit, but he would certainly improve the team. Prior to his injury, I thought he had star material in him. He was a terrific shooter who could score from anywhere on the floor. I don't know if this has been brought up, but the reason he came back for those games at the end of the year, was because his team was down to 9 players that were healthy and able to play. So against some advice, he decided to try and help his team win. Sadly it didn't work out too well for the team, or himself. But you have to give him some credit for trying.

 

[Sac.Kings]

There is a cognitive bias with this kid because he hasn't played. Therefore he can become anyone you want in your mind. He can become the highest version of player you want because there is sparse statistical evidence outside three games (in which he looked terrible) to refute fantasy.

Its a mental flaw that operates below consciousness that you use against yourself to delude into false thinking. Instead of seeing the relatively obvious, that is, Bagley should be the pick, unless the Suns take Doncic, which in case Ayton becomes the pick.

I am going to get technical for a moment to make my point why this kid is trash and should have returned to school.

Okay follow with me. Porter is a shooter. There are two ways you can shoot in a grand sense. (1) Off the catch. (2) Off the bounce. A subset of (2) is the hesitation dribble or what is affectionately termed the "hesi". This is a high degree of difficulty shot. I don't like it. I am not impressed. 35% of those shots go in. Most go clank.

Now why is this a hard shot and why do players take it? A hesi-dribble consists of contorting your body and faking as if you are about to drive to the hoop then in one motion picking up your dribble and shooting. Thats not easy. Contorting and shooting in one motion is not easy. LeBron does it. Tatum does it. Buddy does it. KD does it.

I believe this move was "invented" by Melo and players started to mimic him. Of course Melo is a talented guy but never a high efficiency scorer. If this is predominant aspect to your offensive arsenal, as appears the case with Porter, you are a sub 40% shooter.

So this shot is in Porters repertoire. Because he is tall he has the freedom to get this shot often against most defenders. Hesi and launch and brick! There is NO distinct advantage gained as with his dribble drive or crossover or jab step or shot off the catch after crisp ball movement. This is the type of game fans are drooling over?

Porter is not the next KD. He is a poor mans Rudy Gay. But I leave you with this word of encouragement for fans of his. I would NOT put it past this front office to pick him. Vlade is the worst GM in all of sport. Why wouldn't he make an awful decision and take Porter over Bagley? Thats what the worst at their job do.

Maybe it's your subconscious that's telling you to hate on Porter irrationally. You, or anyone else for that matter, can't judge him fairly because he barely played last year and when he did he clearly was not ready. So now you have reached this level, where you have to completely demolish a player that you don't like, tell the people that do like him they are fools, and then call Vlade the worst GM in the league. All in the same post too, very impressive.

No one knows what Porter is right now or can be. The kid has talent, you just don't like the way he plays, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent. Tone it down a notch, let's see what happens until the draft.

You talk about Melo and his shot selection. I would love a prime Melo on the kings thank you very much.

 

[ESP47]

I think we can all agree that Porter is extremely risky. Way too risky to take at 2 but a risk some may be willing to take if we trade down and get something valuable back in return.

Remember, Skal was also a very high ranking recruit out of high school. I can't remember 100% but I believe he was ranked higher than Ben Simmons and dominated KAT in a high school game. If Skal would have missed the entire season and played in just a couple games, he may have gone top 5 in the draft as well and that obviously would not have been a good pick for someone.

I'm intrigued by Porter but I'm also realistic and know that it's almost essentially just a guess when it comes to scouting him because there's almost nothing substantial to go off of.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Not a fan, too wimpy and a chucker.

If we trade back I'd rather target one of the Bridges. I'd take Doncic 10/10 times over Porter aswell.

 

[bajaden]

I don't know all of that's been written in this thread about Porter, so if I'm repeating something I apologize in advance. Since most of what we know about Porter relates to his highschool career, it must have been pretty good for him to be considered the possible 1st pick in the draft. How good was it? Well, his senior year his team won the state championship by going 29 and 0. During that season Porter averaged 36.2 points per game, 13.8 rebounds per game, 5.0 assists per game, 3.2 steals per game, and averaged 2.7 blocks per game. In the championship game, he went for 31 points and 19 rebounds.

One of his teammates had this to say about him.

“I’ve asked him, ‘Do you know what you’re doing? Do you know that you’re going to be the No. 1 pick in the draft one day?’ ” Fuller said after the title game. “But he’s so humble. He doesn’t really take it in.

“He’s a freak athlete. I feel like if he went to the NBA right now he would not be guarded by a lot of people. Nobody could guard him in high school. He’s definitely the best player in the country.”

Brandon Roy said that Porter will be the most famous player to come out of that area (Washington St.), and that included himself and Jamal Crawford.

Here's a quote from the opposing coach:

“He can do everything, right?” Lincoln coach Aubrey Shelton said afterward. “He can shoot, he can pass he can dribble. He’s so long and athletic. He’s going to be the No. 1 pick in a couple of years. That will be a good story we can tell future guys: ‘Hey, we battled him at the Dome.’ ”

Shelton couldn’t think of another player as dominant.

“If he’s not the best, he’s right up there,”

Now you can make what you want of this. But make no mistake, Porter, prior to his injury was a very, very good basketball player, and for anyone to try and say otherwise is simply talking nonsense. Highschool or not, there were some that compared his domination at the highschool level to that of Lebron when he was in highschool. Comparisons are worth what they cost you, but they should at least be noted. And to set the record straight, I'm by no means promoting Porter as our pick. I'm simply trying to set the record straight. And to be honest, if the Kings do select him, then I'll trust their judgement as to his health.

 

[bajaden]

Not a fan, too wimpy and a chucker.

If we trade back I'd rather target one of the Bridges. I'd take Doncic 10/10 times over Porter aswell.

How ironic, I heard this almost exact quote said about Durant at around this same time of the year. Is history repeating itself?

 

[OptimusRhyme]

How ironic, I heard this almost exact quote said about Durant at around this same time of the year. Is history repeating itself?

No.

 

[Gguod]

Imo people here doesnt consider positional value enough with these prospects and that leads to overrating Ayton and underrating Porter. Porter is basically excactly the type of player that is the most valuable in todays Nba. Athletic wing that can shoot, dribble some and win 1-1 after switches. I dont know enough about his defence but his atlhetisism suggests that he could very well be at least a passable guy who can do switching (and being able to switch is the most important thing in todays Nba).

If Porter didnt have injury concerns, he would be a clear cut number 1 pick to me. Ayton is a bad defender and its very hard to play winning basketball with a bad defending center. In order for him being a valuable player, he basically has to be as good offensively as KAT with his lack of defence. If Porter isnt a great defender, we can hide him to one of opponents perimeter players (2-4) but you cant hide a center. Bad center will be put constantly in pick n roll situations and it will break down the defence.

And thats why I have Ayton below JJ jr. JJ jr is basically an ideal center in todays league. He is a rim protector, can switch very well and he can even shoot some threes. Ayton might have a higher ceiling if he somehow develops defensive instincts but Jackson is almost certainly going to be a very valuable player.

 

[bajaden]

No.

No, you don't believe someone said that, or no, history isn't repeating itself...

 

[Entity]

I’d take porter at #2 if Ayton is gone.

 

[gunks]

After learning that the back thing is NBD, I'm becoming a bit more open to Porter.

I'd still prefer Ayton, Doncic or Bagely. But if Vlade picks Porter I'll be optimistic and hope the kid ends up more KD than Doody Rudy.

And while I'll happily eat crow and tip my hat to the FO if Porter ends up a stud, I reserve the right to bash Vlade if any of the aforementioned players end up better than him!

 

[kingsboi]

After learning that the back thing is NBD, I'm becoming a bit more open to Porter.

I'd still prefer Ayton, Doncic or Bagely. But if Vlade picks Porter I'll be optimistic and hope the kid ends up more KD than Doody Rudy.

And while I'll happily eat crow and tip my hat to the FO if Porter ends up a stud, I reserve the right to bash Vlade if any of the aforementioned players end up better than him!

what if Porter ends up like a Tobias Harris?

 

[gunks]

what if Porter ends up like a Tobias Harris?

Then I'll be sad.

Porter is my 4th choice at pick 2. I'm starting to feel resigned to him being the pick though. Where there is smoke, there's fire and whatnot

 

[ParniValjak]

It's amazing to me how Porter is either the next coming, or a bum. I guess we all have our favorites, and some feel the need to denigrate some players in order to promote their favorite. I don't feel it's an either/or type of thing. There are several players that I think would be a good fit on the Kings. Porter could be one one of those if his medicals check out.

If were going to be honest about Porter, then we have to admit that there was a reason he was considered, pre-injury, the number one highschool player in the nation by most college and NBA scouts. One scout that I know said he considered Porter the best SF prospect to come along since Durant. Who by the way was a skinny 6'10" kid who couldn't bench press 185 pounds once at the combine. He certainly had his critics as well at the time.

So am I implying that Porter is the next coming of Durant? No, of course not, but then we really don't know, do we? Porter is not my favorite player in this draft, but I'll admit that sometimes my favorite isn't the player I think will or could be the best. I put a lot of emphasis on fit, and by fit, I'm not talking about position, but the skills I'm looking for, that I think fit what the team is trying to build. I could expound for hours on the subject, so I'll just leave it at that.

Porter if healthy, and if he's been able to regain his athleticism and skills, could be a great fit on the Kings. Not my favorite fit, but he would certainly improve the team. Prior to his injury, I thought he had star material in him. He was a terrific shooter who could score from anywhere on the floor. I don't know if this has been brought up, but the reason he came back for those games at the end of the year, was because his team was down to 9 players that were healthy and able to play. So against some advice, he decided to try and help his team win. Sadly it didn't work out too well for the team, or himself. But you have to give him some credit for trying.

Sums it up in a nutshell. Perfectly said!

 

[Blob]

Maybe it's your subconscious that's telling you to hate on Porter irrationally. You, or anyone else for that matter, can't judge him fairly because he barely played last year and when he did he clearly was not ready. So now you have reached this level, where you have to completely demolish a player that you don't like, tell the people that do like him they are fools, and then call Vlade the worst GM in the league. All in the same post too, very impressive.

No one knows what Porter is right now or can be. The kid has talent, you just don't like the way he plays, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have talent. Tone it down a notch, let's see what happens until the draft.

You talk about Melo and his shot selection. I would love a prime Melo on the kings thank you very much.

I watched enough NBA hoops (over 35 years) to know a bum when I see one and future career 40% FG shooter. When you have to go back to his performance as 17 year old competing against 5'4 125 pound boys to heap praise upon a guy, you have lost all critical objectivity.

But like I said you should take solace in the fact with this GM in charge your boy Mike may very well be hearing his name called second on draft day. Surgical back? No problem! Chicken legs? No problem! No NCAA pedigree? No problem! Welcome to the Sacramento Kings!

 

[Sac.Kings]

I watched enough NBA hoops (over 35 years) to know a bum when I see one and future career 40% FG shooter. When you have to go back to his performance as 17 year old competing against 5'4 125 pound boys to heap praise upon a guy, you have lost all critical objectivity.

But like I said you should take solace in the fact with this GM in charge your boy Mike may very well be hearing his name called second on draft day. Surgical back? No problem! Chicken legs? No problem! No NCAA pedigree? No problem! Welcome to the Sacramento Kings!

I have my reservations about him as well and I have been advocating for Luka since day 1. Porter is only if we trade back, which would be stupid. It's Luka or Ayton if the Suns decide to be the Suns. I just don't like it when a player is being torn apart on a tiny sample size. High school videos are high school videos and lot of them look similar among all the top prospects. Now if you want to say Porter is a complete unknown in terms of health and how his game will translate, then I would have no problem. But you don't get rated as the number 1 prospect if you are talentless.

Edit: the only other player at 2 that I would consider is Bagley.

 

[ESP47]

Imo people here doesnt consider positional value enough with these prospects and that leads to overrating Ayton and underrating Porter. Porter is basically excactly the type of player that is the most valuable in todays Nba. Athletic wing that can shoot, dribble some and win 1-1 after switches. I dont know enough about his defence but his atlhetisism suggests that he could very well be at least a passable guy who can do switching (and being able to switch is the most important thing in todays Nba).

If Porter didnt have injury concerns, he would be a clear cut number 1 pick to me. Ayton is a bad defender and its very hard to play winning basketball with a bad defending center. In order for him being a valuable player, he basically has to be as good offensively as KAT with his lack of defence. If Porter isnt a great defender, we can hide him to one of opponents perimeter players (2-4) but you cant hide a center. Bad center will be put constantly in pick n roll situations and it will break down the defence.

And thats why I have Ayton below JJ jr. JJ jr is basically an ideal center in todays league. He is a rim protector, can switch very well and he can even shoot some threes. Ayton might have a higher ceiling if he somehow develops defensive instincts but Jackson is almost certainly going to be a very valuable player.

I completely agree with the premise of positional value being lost in a lot of these conversations.

I personally don't like Ayton as much as most people but I think he's a fairly safe pick even though his defense wasn't where it needed to be. It did seem to improve as the season went on, which is encouraging. In the end you have to ask yourself, what's a bigger gamble, Ayton becoming a decent defender or MPJ becoming a good all around player? With Ayton you have a full season of college ball to go off of and with MPJ you have a bunch of high school, exhibition and just a couple of college games to go off of. Massive gamble regardless of position. With Ayton you can pretty much say that this guy has a good chance to be a 17+ppg 10rpg player. Which would be a huge upgrade over WCS. With Porter, you really can't predict anything with any kind of accuracy because he didn't get to play college ball. He's essentially in similar shoes to Harry Giles. A huge unknown.

If he is for real, he's going to have a bigger impact than Ayton, Bagley and JJJ but I just don't know if the odds warrant taking the risk.

 

[Entity]

I watched enough NBA hoops (over 35 years) to know a bum when I see one and future career 40% FG shooter. When you have to go back to his performance as 17 year old competing against 5'4 125 pound boys to heap praise upon a guy, you have lost all critical objectivity.

But like I said you should take solace in the fact with this GM in charge your boy Mike may very well be hearing his name called second on draft day. Surgical back? No problem! Chicken legs? No problem! No NCAA pedigree? No problem! Welcome to the Sacramento Kings!

thats an odd premise you got there. players were drafted #1 out of highschool several times based only on what they did there. No College or professional pedigree at all. Im not comparing these players to MPJ so don't get twisted. but do i really need to list the players drafted just because of what they did in highschool? the list starts with Lebron, Kobe and Garnett.

 

[miltonap]

thats an odd premise you got there. players were drafted #1 out of highschool several times based only on what they did there. No College or professional pedigree at all. Im not comparing these players to MPJ so don't get twisted. but do i really need to list the players drafted just because of what they did in highschool? the list starts with Lebron, Kobe and Garnett.

And ends with Darius Miles lol. Where would you feel comfortable picking Porter?