Fair enough but the other way you can look at this is Bagley made Carter Jr appear invisible. I don't know about you but when I watched Duke I often didn't even notice Carter on the floor. When you make a Top 10 player barely noticeable at times, that speaks to your talent level. Similar to the way KAT made Willie appear invisible at Kentucky.
Marvin Bagley III
- Thread starter jcassio
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First, forget about WCS. Just erase him from your mind. He's now been "vanished" from your head by my thought police because the only place a good WCS can live is in the If Only World, not the real world. And if that doesn't do it, then give it a few months and Divac will do the job, with no imagination necessary. There is absolutely no reason to believe that WCS will develop more of a shooting touch, more balance, more coordination, or more of a motor next year. The best one can hope for is that Kings will get something decent for him in a trade. How he fits into the picture is moot. He isn't in the picture.
I've seen enough of Bagley to not be concerned with his outside shot. I'm 90% confident that he's going to have a good 3 point shot within a couple of years. He has a nice soft touch, a good shooting motion, and he has confidence in his shooting. (Ok, I'll admit it: his FT% has me a wee bit concerned ). If the Kings had the temerity to take a point guard last year with shooting difficulties, they should have no problems with taking a 6'11' jumping jack with the protoplasm to become a very good outside shooter. I think if you play Bagley with Giles you could have potentially some incredible offensive flexibility. I'm going to make the not far-fetched assumption that within a year or two Giles will also be a good open outside shooter, either from 2 point land or all the way out to 3 point land. Unlike WCS, he is reputed to have very soft good hands, balance and fluidity; unless his shooting motion is totally whack he's going to be a good shooter. One guy could go outside while the other cuts inside and vice versa, almost like interchangeable parts. Giles is reputed to be a very good passer, the best passer on this team; that's better than Bogs. I think Bagley has untapped potential in passing. I've seen him do quite nicely in passing off of hard dribbles to the basket. Each one could make the life of the other much easier on offense because of their passing ability. Then you throw in Skal who we already know can hit 3 point shots and who can post against smaller players and it could be very rosy on offense.
Of course I've avoided talking about defense. That's going to be a problem. It's virtually always a problem with rookies and 2nd year guys, and let's not make the rosy assumption that Bagley's defensive recognition issues will all be overcome this summer. It's going to take time. And then there's the issue of strength. How much stronger will Bagley get? And Skal? Is he going to come back next year 40% stronger or 20% stronger? Giles should have some pretty decent strength as he has been in strength training all last year, so I'm not as concerned about him. All of these things will be issues. If you don't want the issues of defense, pick Jackson. But then he's just not in the zip code currently of Bagley on offense, and his ultimate offensive potential could be a bigger unknown than all of the other unknowns that I've mentioned above.
I've seen enough of Bagley to not be concerned with his outside shot. I'm 90% confident that he's going to have a good 3 point shot within a couple of years. He has a nice soft touch, a good shooting motion, and he has confidence in his shooting. (Ok, I'll admit it: his FT% has me a wee bit concerned ). If the Kings had the temerity to take a point guard last year with shooting difficulties, they should have no problems with taking a 6'11' jumping jack with the protoplasm to become a very good outside shooter. I think if you play Bagley with Giles you could have potentially some incredible offensive flexibility. I'm going to make the not far-fetched assumption that within a year or two Giles will also be a good open outside shooter, either from 2 point land or all the way out to 3 point land. Unlike WCS, he is reputed to have very soft good hands, balance and fluidity; unless his shooting motion is totally whack he's going to be a good shooter. One guy could go outside while the other cuts inside and vice versa, almost like interchangeable parts. Giles is reputed to be a very good passer, the best passer on this team; that's better than Bogs. I think Bagley has untapped potential in passing. I've seen him do quite nicely in passing off of hard dribbles to the basket. Each one could make the life of the other much easier on offense because of their passing ability. Then you throw in Skal who we already know can hit 3 point shots and who can post against smaller players and it could be very rosy on offense.
Of course I've avoided talking about defense. That's going to be a problem. It's virtually always a problem with rookies and 2nd year guys, and let's not make the rosy assumption that Bagley's defensive recognition issues will all be overcome this summer. It's going to take time. And then there's the issue of strength. How much stronger will Bagley get? And Skal? Is he going to come back next year 40% stronger or 20% stronger? Giles should have some pretty decent strength as he has been in strength training all last year, so I'm not as concerned about him. All of these things will be issues. If you don't want the issues of defense, pick Jackson. But then he's just not in the zip code currently of Bagley on offense, and his ultimate offensive potential could be a bigger unknown than all of the other unknowns that I've mentioned above.
Ex
Even if Bagley gets stronger (which he will) and gets better defensive recognition (which he might) he'll likely never be a rim protector due to his below average length for his height. This is going to mean either always playing him next to another big or accepting that you won't be a great defensive team.
I'd opt for playing him with another big since Bagley shows flashes of the ability to guard out on the perimeter and the offensive ability to punish smaller defenders inside.
I'm torn between Doncic's high floor and skill level and Bagley's high ceiling and athleticism.
Porter is starting to creep in as a third option primarily because he potentially plugs two major holes as a SF and go-to scorer. Also because I think the Kings could squeeze the #19 pick from Atlanta in a trade down from #2 to #3 and still get MPJ.
But if I had to pick a player at #2 today I think it would be Bagley.
Even if Bagley gets stronger (which he will) and gets better defensive recognition (which he might) he'll likely never be a rim protector due to his below average length for his height. This is going to mean either always playing him next to another big or accepting that you won't be a great defensive team.
I'd opt for playing him with another big since Bagley shows flashes of the ability to guard out on the perimeter and the offensive ability to punish smaller defenders inside.
I'm torn between Doncic's high floor and skill level and Bagley's high ceiling and athleticism.
Porter is starting to creep in as a third option primarily because he potentially plugs two major holes as a SF and go-to scorer. Also because I think the Kings could squeeze the #19 pick from Atlanta in a trade down from #2 to #3 and still get MPJ.
But if I had to pick a player at #2 today I think it would be Bagley.
But what Bagley does have is quick-jumping ability. The lengthier guy may be able to eventually get higher than Bagley, but Bagley is going to get at the lower elevations much quicker. I'd argue that in today's NBA, with the 3 point shooting being what it is, if I had to pick some more length over juick-jumping, I'd pick the quick-jumping.
Porter is a vegan (anti-anabolic diet) with chicken legs and surgically repaired back who looked terrible when he returned from injury. Why do you have confidence in him? He shoots low percentage 3s without making the defense play him. Meanwhile Bagley dominated the ACC at 18 with a 31 PER and 4 offensive rebounds per game. Your assertion has no evidence to support it.
Kevin Durant is long and lean too. Porter obviously played hardly at all last year but even in his cup of tea he rebounded at a rate of over 15 per 40 min. Also was over 2 stls per 40. His shooting was terrible but imo you have to give him a pass just coming back from injury there. His upside looks legit to me... He's kd if everything goes right.
Ill be marrying dating Emily Ratajkowski if everything goes right. 
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I get it and I know it's ridiculous to compare a guy like that to a hofer. But that's the thing with Porter... You can clearly see a best case scenario for him. He's not missing anything physically or athletically to achieve his best case. Sucks we didn't get a healthy year of production to see if he could've matched kd's college numbers (KD scored 6 more points on three less shots per 40) but he would've had a shot at getting close imo.
[/QUOTE]I get it and I know it's ridiculous to compare a guy like that to a hofer. But that's the thing with Porter... You can clearly see a best case scenario for him. He's not missing anything physically or athletically to achieve his best case. Sucks we didn't get a healthy year of production to see if he could've matched kd's college numbers (KD scored 6 more points on three less shots per 40) but he would've had a shot at getting close imo.
https://vlipsy.com/vlip/grandmas-boy-jp-wants-metal-legs-b6gKcOVd
You can say this about anyone with any amount of talent or hype coming out of high school. A lot of top prospects hailed as the latest and the greatest don't pan out. If he is so dominant and Durant-like I think he should have proved it next year at Missouri and made a case to be the #1 pick in 2019. That seasoning and year of health would be good for his career and earning potential. Saying he's not missing anything physically or athletically is pure conjecture until he proves it against real competition.
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I do not get the fascination with Porter. He is nowhere near the prospect Tatum was. He isn't a modern 3 or 4. Isn't skilled enough in terms of ball handling, shooting ability, basketball IQ to play the 3. Too skinny and below average motor to play the 4. Reminds me too much of a Jeff Green or Michael Beasley.
I bristle slightly anytime Porter Jr name is brought up because I would not put it past this front office to take him. There should be 100% odds the next Sacramento King is Luka, Ayton,, Bagley and I will even throw Bamba in there. There's your foursome expanded from the twosome many want to limit the selection to.
I am cool with anyone of these guys in the order of (1) Ayton (2) Bagley (3) Bamba (4) Luka. But given this front offices track record with the likes of Willie over Turner, Papa G and Malachi over anyone, G Leaguer Jackson over OG, Kouzma and even Terrence Furguson, and Giles red shirting a whole season although the two year anniversary of his second ACL was January 2018 , and the stretch run would have been a nice opportunity to introduce him to the league while losing some more games, I would not exclude Porter Jr or even Trae Young (the next Curry!) from possibility at #2.
I don't trust this front office with my lunch order let alone to make the right choice next month. I would love to think they are going to take Bagley unless Ayton falls into their lap. If their thinking deviates much from this, including trading down and other sketchy BS, well, it will be par for the course.
I am cool with anyone of these guys in the order of (1) Ayton (2) Bagley (3) Bamba (4) Luka. But given this front offices track record with the likes of Willie over Turner, Papa G and Malachi over anyone, G Leaguer Jackson over OG, Kouzma and even Terrence Furguson, and Giles red shirting a whole season although the two year anniversary of his second ACL was January 2018 , and the stretch run would have been a nice opportunity to introduce him to the league while losing some more games, I would not exclude Porter Jr or even Trae Young (the next Curry!) from possibility at #2.
I don't trust this front office with my lunch order let alone to make the right choice next month. I would love to think they are going to take Bagley unless Ayton falls into their lap. If their thinking deviates much from this, including trading down and other sketchy BS, well, it will be par for the course.
Don't you think it is disingenuous to declare yourself the "best player in the draft" when you missed the entire season and guys like Young, Ayton and Bagley logged seasons of actual statistical achievement? It is hot air braggadocio in lieu of substance with the agent trying to maximize his 5% cut. Be humble and let your play speak for itself during individual workouts.
Porter Jr played 3 games and shot 33%. He had one whopping assist in 53 minutes of play! Well, that is Durant-esque compared to his play against the Rockets. And the long athletic wonder compiled one shot block too. This reeks of a cash grab before the fraud of his game is exposed.
Porter Jr played 3 games and shot 33%. He had one whopping assist in 53 minutes of play! Well, that is Durant-esque compared to his play against the Rockets. And the long athletic wonder compiled one shot block too. This reeks of a cash grab before the fraud of his game is exposed.
The quote about being the best player in the draft doesn't bother me... He probably believes it and is trying to show confidence. In my opinion it's really unfair to hold those two games against him as he was fresh off of a major injury. That said if you're gonna look at the negatives at least look at the positives too... Over 15 reb and 2 stls per 40 to go along with 22 pts (on terribly inefficient shooting of course).
Why in the world would you knock a guy for being confident? The reason he thinks he's the best is simple. He spent the last few years before college playing with or against all these other top players and outplayed them. He came into this year ranked as the top player in the country. It is idiotic to think that missing 1 season due to injury somehow took all his talent away. And if he thought that way, he would have no chance making it in the NBA.
I happen to like Porter quite a bit, but I would trade down for him. Problem is I like a couple others as much so I'm torn. As I've said before, scouting work and workouts/interviews are going to be the meat of the decision we make on draft day. If Porter comes in and dominates all that he faces, that's a heck of a talent, he was ranked the number one recruit for a reason.
You really don't like Porter, we get it. However, you have to be fair to him. He played 2 games and 2 minutes of a third. You can't possibly be judging him on that. No practice sessions, no time to get in shape, nothing. What's an 18 year old kid going to do when he comes back from an injury? Particularly one who was rated as the best beforehand? Shoot and try too hard. And so he missed a lot of shots.
At the very least he deserves a legitimate look because if everything checks out the kid will average 20 plus a game in a couple years, he's got the tools to do so. Are there areas he's got things to work on? Damn right there are, but to write him off completely based on incomplete stats coming off an injury is foolish. He has talent and lots of it. I like that he thinks that he's the best, we need someone with a pair for once. We haven't been properly tough or confident since 2006.
At the very least he deserves a legitimate look because if everything checks out the kid will average 20 plus a game in a couple years, he's got the tools to do so. Are there areas he's got things to work on? Damn right there are, but to write him off completely based on incomplete stats coming off an injury is foolish. He has talent and lots of it. I like that he thinks that he's the best, we need someone with a pair for once. We haven't been properly tough or confident since 2006.
Its not a matter of whether I like him, its a matter of whether he's worthy of consideration for the 2nd pick of the draft. In lieu of a college career, is this what I am suppose to be impressed by? Here's a video of him playing against 5'4" 125 pound boys. Ooooh look at him go....the next KD! Give me a break. Kevin Durant was highly accomplished at Texas. He was unstoppable. If he wanted to follow in those footsteps, or have a comparable career, and if he had true faith and confidence in his ability, and given his freshman season was a washout, he would return to school and prove his dominance. I have yet to hear a valid rebuttal to this argument. But again knowing our front office, he may be a viable possibility at #2.
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