Willie Cauley-Stein

[twslam07]

I'd like to see Cauley-Stein moved. I don't think he's our long term answer at C, and I'd rather get value for him now rather than losing him for nothing or overpaying him. I like the idea as Giles as our future C (obviously we'll have to see how he looks next year and if he's durable enough). At the combine, he measured in at:

Height w/o Shoes: 6'9.25" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Height w/ Shoes: 6'10.5" (9th out of 67 prospects)
Standing Reach: 9'1.5" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Wingspan: 7'3.25" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Weight: 232 lbs (19th out of 67 prospects)
Body Fat: 5.2% (8th out of 67 prospects)
Hand Length: 9.5" (1st out of 67 prospects)
Hand Width: 10.75" (1st out of 67 prospects)
Lane Agility: 11.08 sec (14th out of 67 prospects)
Shuttle Run: 3.00 sec (18th out of 67 prospects)
Three Quarter Sprint: 3.34 sec (35th out of 67 prospects)
Standing Vertical Leap: 27" (42nd out of 67 prospects)
Max Vertical Leap: 32.5" (41st out of 67 prospects)

Giles was known as an explosive leaper before his injuries, so I wouldn't be surprised after all the work he has been doing with Peak Performance Project that his vertical is better now than at the combine. He's also talked about his weight being up to 240 now from his regime (which would put him at 11th among prospects). We also had the report from James Ham that Giles' lateral quickness tested at an elite SF level so that lane agility might even be lower now.

So what might we have on our hands as early as next year? A C who...

• is 240 lbs w/ 5.2% body fat
• is 6'10.5"
• has a 7'3.25" wingspan
• has a 9'1.5" standing reach
• has huge hands
• has the lateral quickness of an elite SF
• may have a 34"-38" vertical after rehabilitating
• is a great rebounder
• is talked about as being the best passing big man on the team
• is talked about having a little "nasty" in him

I also see Labissiere as being able to log time at both PF & C as he continues to add more strength. I see Labissiere as being the stretch 5 option (as Giles has never been known to be a great shooter).

 

[kingsboi]

I'd like to see Cauley-Stein moved. I don't think he's our long term answer at C, and I'd rather get value for him now rather than losing him for nothing or overpaying him. I like the idea as Giles as our future C (obviously we'll have to see how he looks next year and if he's durable enough). At the combine, he measured in at:

Height w/o Shoes: 6'9.25" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Height w/ Shoes: 6'10.5" (9th out of 67 prospects)
Standing Reach: 9'1.5" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Wingspan: 7'3.25" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Weight: 232 lbs (19th out of 67 prospects)
Body Fat: 5.2% (8th out of 67 prospects)
Hand Length: 9.5" (1st out of 67 prospects)
Hand Width: 10.75" (1st out of 67 prospects)
Lane Agility: 11.08 sec (14th out of 67 prospects)
Shuttle Run: 3.00 sec (18th out of 67 prospects)
Three Quarter Sprint: 3.34 sec (35th out of 67 prospects)
Standing Vertical Leap: 27" (42nd out of 67 prospects)
Max Vertical Leap: 32.5" (41st out of 67 prospects)

Giles was known as an explosive leaper before his injuries, so I wouldn't be surprised after all the work he has been doing with Peak Performance Project that his vertical is better now than at the combine. He's also talked about his weight being up to 240 now from his regime (which would put him at 11th among prospects). We also had the report from James Ham that Giles' lateral quickness tested at an elite SF level so that lane agility might even be lower now.

So what might we have on our hands as early as next year? A C who...

• is 240 lbs w/ 5.2% body fat
• is 6'10.5"
• has a 7'3.25" wingspan
• has a 9'1.5" standing reach
• has huge hands
• has the lateral quickness of an elite SF
• may have a 34"-38" vertical after rehabilitating
• is a great rebounder
• is talked about as being the best passing big man on the team
• is talked about having a little "nasty" in him

I also see Labissiere as being able to log time at both PF & C as he continues to add more strength. I see Labissiere as being the stretch 5 option (as Giles has never been known to be a great shooter).

I agree, Willie can't be this teams starting center moving forward if they want to go anywhere. Unless he is willing to be a backup, but I don't see his ego allowing that, at least not for this team. Maybe his mindset would change should a playoff contender come calling and maybe they can try to bring out something in him that the Kings couldn't. The Kings then can focus on Skal & Giles and then depending where they are slated to draft in June, consider drafting one of the bigs that will be available for them.

 

[allrightythen]

I'd like to see Cauley-Stein moved. I don't think he's our long term answer at C, and I'd rather get value for him now rather than losing him for nothing or overpaying him. I like the idea as Giles as our future C (obviously we'll have to see how he looks next year and if he's durable enough). At the combine, he measured in at:

Height w/o Shoes: 6'9.25" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Height w/ Shoes: 6'10.5" (9th out of 67 prospects)
Standing Reach: 9'1.5" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Wingspan: 7'3.25" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Weight: 232 lbs (19th out of 67 prospects)
Body Fat: 5.2% (8th out of 67 prospects)
Hand Length: 9.5" (1st out of 67 prospects)
Hand Width: 10.75" (1st out of 67 prospects)
Lane Agility: 11.08 sec (14th out of 67 prospects)
Shuttle Run: 3.00 sec (18th out of 67 prospects)
Three Quarter Sprint: 3.34 sec (35th out of 67 prospects)
Standing Vertical Leap: 27" (42nd out of 67 prospects)
Max Vertical Leap: 32.5" (41st out of 67 prospects)

Giles was known as an explosive leaper before his injuries, so I wouldn't be surprised after all the work he has been doing with Peak Performance Project that his vertical is better now than at the combine. He's also talked about his weight being up to 240 now from his regime (which would put him at 11th among prospects). We also had the report from James Ham that Giles' lateral quickness tested at an elite SF level so that lane agility might even be lower now.

So what might we have on our hands as early as next year? A C who...

• is 240 lbs w/ 5.2% body fat
• is 6'10.5"
• has a 7'3.25" wingspan
• has a 9'1.5" standing reach
• has huge hands
• has the lateral quickness of an elite SF
• may have a 34"-38" vertical after rehabilitating
• is a great rebounder
• is talked about as being the best passing big man on the team
• is talked about having a little "nasty" in him

I also see Labissiere as being able to log time at both PF & C as he continues to add more strength. I see Labissiere as being the stretch 5 option (as Giles has never been known to be a great shooter).

I don't know what Giles will be, but from what little college film there is on him I see a guy who has some understanding of how to play in the post which was Skal's biggest weakness coming out of Kentucky. I have high hopes for Harry but it's really hard to count on someone who hasn't played a minute of NBA basketball.

If the stuff we're hearing about him has merit though we could be in great position moving forward with talent all over the place.

 

[twslam07]

While I am far from convinced that WCS is a starting calibre C on a play off team, I am not exactly ready to pin my hopes on Giles who has not played a minute of NBA basketball yet. I hope he fulfills his potential but we have no idea what he will be able to do in the NBA (if anyhting)

I don't think any fans who can't see Giles play on a regular basis are ready to pin their hopes on Giles. That's just logical.

However, the whole notion (not necessarily you) that we can't move Cauley-Stein until we know what we have in Giles is ridiculous. We could have nothing but old, journey men bigs on this team and I would still support moving Cauley-Stein at this point. We have no idea who our stars are yet, Cauley-Stein hasn't exactly lit it up and is still playing as a negative player across the best impact stats, and his contract is done in a year. If we continue to wait, the more his value will go down.

I'm not in favor of spending high draft picks on bigs (I know you think differently from your posts) considering the direction of the league. However, look at the top teams right now. Which of them are being led by elite big men?

• Houston - Harden & Paul
• Golden State - Durant & Curry
• Portland - Lillard & McCollum
• Oklahoma City - Westbrook & George
• Toronto - DeRozan & Lowry
• Boston - Irving & Horford
• Cleveland - LeBron & Love
• Washington - Beal & Wall

The game is being won by smaller, perimeter players. Now you could argue that big men are in the middle of adjusting to the new era and having a center like Towns, Porzingis, Davis, Embiid, & Jokic in the future will be the blueprint for success but there isn't much to support it at this point.

I don't think we should be spending our valuable cap space on big men unless they truly are special. Paying roleplayer money to big men while you invest in your perimeter seems to be the easiest route to a good team. I don't want to be tied down (regardless if we have Giles and/or Labissiere) by an underwhelming Cauley-Stein when we should really be looking to move him for future assets and to reserve our cap space to give us the best shot at finding these types of perimeter players.

We shouldn't be extending players who have yet to prove they can help a team win. Cauley-Stein has yet to prove that. Luckily we have Giles & Labissiere who give us a couple more cheap attempts at resolving who our big man of the future will be.

 

[Kingster]

I'm not big on keeping WCS for the long term either. I just hope Divac & Co. are making plans now about what to do with him so they can get some actual value for him if they decide to trade him. We can't be just a training ground for draft picks for three or four years and then dump them for nothing.

 

[ESP47]

I'm not big on keeping WCS for the long term either. I just hope Divac & Co. are making plans now about what to do with him so they can get some actual value for him if they decide to trade him. We can't be just a training ground for draft picks for three or four years and then dump them for nothing.

Agreed.

They can't wait either. Have to decide by this offseason because he won't have any value as a half year rental next year.

 

[VF21]

...I see WCS and Skal and I see MASSIVE difference in attitude. Skal will try his backside off, he will try to defend (but make dumb mistakes), he will fight for every rebound (but he is not strong enough to hold his position and get a hold of those boards that he goes for), he will try o play perimeter D and try and provide weak side shot blocking. I might be completely off the mark here but I can see Skal being a better player in 3-4 years time than WCS will be because the kid wants to work on the areas that coaches want him to work on. WCS seems to beat to his own drum.

The sad part is if WCS put forth the effort Skal does, he could easily achieve much, much more. He's (WCS) got the basic talent but just isn't that motivated to use it.

 

[ParniValjak]

The sad part is if WCS put forth the effort Skal does, he could easily achieve much, much more. He's (WCS) got the basic talent but just isn't that motivated to use it.

And that is the thing that frustrates the hell out of a lot of fans. To be honest, even if he turns it on next season, I cannot trust him to carry on with it and keep improving once he signs his big contract and I rather someone else get stuck with that contract than us.

 

[eMBarkat10n]

Willie needs to show us more plays like the one below...

 

[VF21]

And that is the thing that frustrates the hell out of a lot of fans. To be honest, even if he turns it on next season, I cannot trust him to carry on with it and keep improving once he signs his big contract and I rather someone else get stuck with that contract than us.

I think/hope that if he turns it on, he's going to find out it's a lot more fun to play up to the level of your ability.

 

[Kingster]

Bogdan is not going to not pump up his team mate when he is asked a question about that team mate.

There is no doubt that based on his high school play, Giles is a genuine franchise level talent in the modern NBA. Whether he can overcome years of missed development at probably the most crutial time in player's career, that is something that will remain unanswered for a couple of years. If the answer to that question is yes, then you just might have your franchise level big on your hands but that is far from a given.

Based on his high school film, Giles is everything WCS could be but is not interested in becoming. An excellent rebounder, rim protector and someone who can switch on pick and roll and contain smaller players. Offensively, he also showed more than WCS did at any point.

In the modern NBA, WCS could, if he really wanted to, be a prototype of a modern NBA center. Excellent athlete, great length, can guard ANYONE and protect the rim......i.e. a defensive beast, runs the floor better than many guards, can put the ball on the floor, decent passer and he could be a great rebounder. He does not appear to be interested in getting the foundation of his game down pat before he expands his offensive game. If he can pride himself on becoming the best defender in the league and actually fight fo the rebounds like his life depended on it, that becomes his staple and opens up his offensive game. However he is more interested on becoming an alpha dog which he will never be.

I see WCS and Skal and I see MASSIVE difference in attitude. Skal will try his backside off, he will try to defend (but make dumb mistakes), he will fight for every rebound (but he is not strong enough to hold his position and get a hold of those boards that he goes for), he will try o play perimeter D and try and provide weak side shot blocking. I might be completely off the mark here but I can see Skal being a better player in 3-4 years time than WCS will be because the kid wants to work on the areas that coaches want him to work on. WCS seems to beat to his own drum.

I think also that WCS has a odd mixture of weaknesses for a center that just don't translate into today's NBA. He's not a threat from the 3 point line, and he's not a good rebounder. So he can't draw the very big physical centers away from the basket on offense, which makes it more difficult for Fox and others to find space to operate, and he can't rebound the ball to either start the fast break or to get more attempts at the basket in the half court. If he could do either one of those things well, it would be an entirely different story. Unfortunately, he can't. And it doesn't look like he ever will.

 

[sactowndog]

Bogdan is not going to not pump up his team mate when he is asked a question about that team mate.

There is no doubt that based on his high school play, Giles is a genuine franchise level talent in the modern NBA. Whether he can overcome years of missed development at probably the most crutial time in player's career, that is something that will remain unanswered for a couple of years. If the answer to that question is yes, then you just might have your franchise level big on your hands but that is far from a given.

Based on his high school film, Giles is everything WCS could be but is not interested in becoming. An excellent rebounder, rim protector and someone who can switch on pick and roll and contain smaller players. Offensively, he also showed more than WCS did at any point.

In the modern NBA, WCS could, if he really wanted to, be a prototype of a modern NBA center. Excellent athlete, great length, can guard ANYONE and protect the rim......i.e. a defensive beast, runs the floor better than many guards, can put the ball on the floor, decent passer and he could be a great rebounder. He does not appear to be interested in getting the foundation of his game down pat before he expands his offensive game. If he can pride himself on becoming the best defender in the league and actually fight fo the rebounds like his life depended on it, that becomes his staple and opens up his offensive game. However he is more interested on becoming an alpha dog which he will never be.

I see WCS and Skal and I see MASSIVE difference in attitude. Skal will try his backside off, he will try to defend (but make dumb mistakes), he will fight for every rebound (but he is not strong enough to hold his position and get a hold of those boards that he goes for), he will try o play perimeter D and try and provide weak side shot blocking. I might be completely off the mark here but I can see Skal being a better player in 3-4 years time than WCS will be because the kid wants to work on the areas that coaches want him to work on. WCS seems to beat to his own drum.

I agree with your assessment of Willie and Skal. My understanding is Bogdan went past just responding to a question but again I could be mistaken.

 

[edwardyoung111]

Giles:

He is four months younger than Fox. They had been playing against each other in AAU ball since the 6th grade. For the first couple of years, they were the same height and guarded each other. That tells me that he has better ball handling skills than your average big man. Charles Barkley was a point guard through his sophomore year in high school. It is a big advantage to be responsible for handling the ball when other bigs are just posted down low from age 10 on. IF he stays healthy, Giles could be special.

WCS:

Contrary to other commenters, I think Willie's problem is that he has no ego at all. That is sometimes true with young bigs. They are kind of embarrassed that they are so big, slouch at school to NOT stand out and wonder if size is the only reason they are succeeding. Many are withdrawn "Aw, Shucks" types until they mature. I think Willie is a keeper but more than anyone else on this team, he needs good coaching. I think he should spend an offseason with Tom House and come back more confident. I also wonder who is instructing him on free throw shooting. Watch his form. He doesn't seem to understand the basic concept that "Your power should come from your legs" - he barely bends them and is "all arm". No wonder he is always "1 out of 2". Unlike Koufos, this can be corrected. In some ways (passing, the two left handed hook shots) last night's game against the Pistons was his best. I'm not certain that HE was responsible for Drummond scoring only two baskets that collectively traveled three feet, but something happened there.

 

[HndsmCelt]

A Mod really needs to split this thread as it has turned into a discussion on extending WCS,which is a great topic but not Germain to the original thread on Question Mark and the Mysterians' 96 Tears ... AKA Harry Giles ...will he rock.

As far as WCS goes I think that assuming the price it right Vlade has to sign him. He is a talented big who has improved his game every season. Even if you do not see him as part of the future of this team going forward you sign him.

You sign him because the essential principle of talent acquisition is never let talent just walk. A lesson this franchise forgot during the years in the wilderness where it drafted busts more often than hits so just let players go for nothing, including the ones like Evans and IT who had value. So you sign him, and if you later decide other players are a better fit you trade him someone you are sure brings back value and a better fit.

You sign him because he is a talented big man who has improved his game every season, who loves playing in Sacramento and seems to get along well with his teammates.

You sign him because the only constant with this team for over a decade is epic levels of instability. This core of kids have earned the right to be left in tact with the same coach for at least 2 seasons.

You sign him because he is the longest tenured player and the team needs stablity (See above).

 

[gunks]

I'd like to see Cauley-Stein moved. I don't think he's our long term answer at C, and I'd rather get value for him now rather than losing him for nothing or overpaying him. I like the idea as Giles as our future C (obviously we'll have to see how he looks next year and if he's durable enough). At the combine, he measured in at:

Height w/o Shoes: 6'9.25" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Height w/ Shoes: 6'10.5" (9th out of 67 prospects)
Standing Reach: 9'1.5" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Wingspan: 7'3.25" (8th out of 67 prospects)
Weight: 232 lbs (19th out of 67 prospects)
Body Fat: 5.2% (8th out of 67 prospects)
Hand Length: 9.5" (1st out of 67 prospects)
Hand Width: 10.75" (1st out of 67 prospects)
Lane Agility: 11.08 sec (14th out of 67 prospects)
Shuttle Run: 3.00 sec (18th out of 67 prospects)
Three Quarter Sprint: 3.34 sec (35th out of 67 prospects)
Standing Vertical Leap: 27" (42nd out of 67 prospects)
Max Vertical Leap: 32.5" (41st out of 67 prospects)

Giles was known as an explosive leaper before his injuries, so I wouldn't be surprised after all the work he has been doing with Peak Performance Project that his vertical is better now than at the combine. He's also talked about his weight being up to 240 now from his regime (which would put him at 11th among prospects). We also had the report from James Ham that Giles' lateral quickness tested at an elite SF level so that lane agility might even be lower now.

So what might we have on our hands as early as next year? A C who...

• is 240 lbs w/ 5.2% body fat
• is 6'10.5"
• has a 7'3.25" wingspan
• has a 9'1.5" standing reach
• has huge hands
• has the lateral quickness of an elite SF
• may have a 34"-38" vertical after rehabilitating
• is a great rebounder
• is talked about as being the best passing big man on the team
• is talked about having a little "nasty" in him

I also see Labissiere as being able to log time at both PF & C as he continues to add more strength. I see Labissiere as being the stretch 5 option (as Giles has never been known to be a great shooter).

You had me at "I'd like to see Cauley-Stein moved".

 

[ParniValjak]

A Mod really needs to split this thread as it has turned into a discussion on extending WCS,which is a great topic but not Germain to the original thread on Question Mark and the Mysterians' 96 Tears ... AKA Harry Giles ...will he rock.

As far as WCS goes I think that assuming the price it right Vlade has to sign him. He is a talented big who has improved his game every season. Even if you do not see him as part of the future of this team going forward you sign him.

You sign him because the essential principle of talent acquisition is never let talent just walk. A lesson this franchise forgot during the years in the wilderness where it drafted busts more often than hits so just let players go for nothing, including the ones like Evans and IT who had value. So you sign him, and if you later decide other players are a better fit you trade him someone you are sure brings back value and a better fit.

You sign him because he is a talented big man who has improved his game every season, who loves playing in Sacramento and seems to get along well with his teammates.

You sign him because the only constant with this team for over a decade is epic levels of instability. This core of kids have earned the right to be left in tact with the same coach for at least 2 seasons.

You sign him because he is the longest tenured player and the team needs stablity (See above).

While I agree that this is a discussion for another thread, I am not sure ANYONE here is saying to lose WCS for nothing. You don't HAVE to sign him. You can trade him on draft night to a team that sees him as someone they want to move forward with. No one here has said to just let him walk.

At one point in time JT was the longest tenured King as well. That has absolutely nothing to do with the decision whether or not to move forward with him.

 

[HndsmCelt]

While I agree that this is a discussion for another thread, I am not sure ANYONE here is saying to lose WCS for nothing. You don't HAVE to sign him. You can trade him on draft night to a team that sees him as someone they want to move forward with. No one here has said to just let him walk.

At one point in time JT was the longest tenured King as well. That has absolutely nothing to do with the decision whether or not to move forward with him.

I forgot To add the line that said you have to sign Willie Cauley-Stein to trade him for value because his current ending contract is so small and of course ending. Generally teams seek large ending contracts to clear cap space or they want bargain players for a few years. But if you did get a taker with a contract this small you're not going to bring back much except maybe picks. I reject the idea of trading for picks on the principle that you are trading talent for unknown which does not enhance Talent it Gamble's it.
Analogy to Jason is just not valid. Willie is already a better player than Jason was when he left, he is only been here 3 years and he continues to grow. If after playing a few more years you want to make this argument I'll entertain it

 

[kingsboi]

Willie needs to show us more plays like the one below...

unfortunately, Willie is only good for one of those plays once a season.

 

[VF21]

WCS:

Contrary to other commenters, I think Willie's problem is that he has no ego at all. That is sometimes true with young bigs. They are kind of embarrassed that they are so big, slouch at school to NOT stand out and wonder if size is the only reason they are succeeding. Many are withdrawn "Aw, Shucks" types until they mature. I think Willie is a keeper but more than anyone else on this team, he needs good coaching. I think he should spend an offseason with Tom House and come back more confident. I also wonder who is instructing him on free throw shooting. Watch his form. He doesn't seem to understand the basic concept that "Your power should come from your legs" - he barely bends them and is "all arm". No wonder he is always "1 out of 2". Unlike Koufos, this can be corrected. In some ways (passing, the two left handed hook shots) last night's game against the Pistons was his best. I'm not certain that HE was responsible for Drummond scoring only two baskets that collectively traveled three feet, but something happened there.

Really? I think his ego is just fine, especially when you look at him off the court. His art, his work with clothng, his comments, etc. all point to him being someone who is very comfortable in his skin and knows who he is.

 

[206Fan]

I don't think Harry has any bearing on Willie's future. Instead, I think it'll come down to the 2018 draft AND his new contract. Question is, when should we decide whether or not he'll be a part of the future? This summer? or the trade deadline?

There's pros and cons to both. This summer:
Pros

• Get the most trade value out of him, he's coming off a promising and improved 3rd season. He'd have 1 year left plus RFA which makes him appealing for any team
• Allows the Kings to give the other young bigs more playing time throughout the season

Cons

• He could be even better next year. He's continually(maybe inconsistently) improved every year, and there's no reason to believe he won't continue to make leaps in his game. Might be best to see how he does entering his 4th year of his rookie contract. Trading him in the summer doesn't allow us to see
• The guys behind him are complete question marks. He's continually improved every year, specifically on offense. He's only 24 and produces on the court

Unless a really good offer comes up like an exchange for an equally young and good player, I'd keep him for his 4th year. There's no rush to get rid of him. If he sucks it up, we can trade him anytime. If he's showed consistent improvements, let's offer him a reasonable extension in the offseason. If he makes giant leaps in his game, then he deserves big money from us.

 

[ParniValjak]

I don't think Harry has any bearing on Willie's future. Instead, I think it'll come down to the 2018 draft AND his new contract. Question is, when should we decide whether or not he'll be a part of the future? This summer? or the trade deadline?

There's pros and cons to both. This summer:
Pros

• Get the most trade value out of him, he's coming off a promising and improved 3rd season. He'd have 1 year left plus RFA which makes him appealing for any team
• Allows the Kings to give the other young bigs more playing time throughout the season

Cons

• He could be even better next year. He's continually(maybe inconsistently) improved every year, and there's no reason to believe he won't continue to make leaps in his game. Might be best to see how he does entering his 4th year of his rookie contract. Trading him in the summer doesn't allow us to see
• The guys behind him are complete question marks. He's continually improved every year, specifically on offense. He's only 24 and produces on the court

Unless a really good offer comes up like an exchange for an equally young and good player, I'd keep him for his 4th year. There's no rush to get rid of him. If he sucks it up, we can trade him anytime. If he's showed consistent improvements, let's offer him a reasonable extension in the offseason. If he makes giant leaps in his game, then he deserves big money from us.

While that is all well and good, holding onto him and them trading him before the deadline pretty much guarantees that you would get absolute minimum trade currency for him. Teams tend to offer more if they can have a look at the player for a whole season before deciding.

 

[ESP47]

I don't think Harry has any bearing on Willie's future. Instead, I think it'll come down to the 2018 draft AND his new contract. Question is, when should we decide whether or not he'll be a part of the future? This summer? or the trade deadline?

There's pros and cons to both. This summer:
Pros

• Get the most trade value out of him, he's coming off a promising and improved 3rd season. He'd have 1 year left plus RFA which makes him appealing for any team
• Allows the Kings to give the other young bigs more playing time throughout the season

Cons

• He could be even better next year. He's continually(maybe inconsistently) improved every year, and there's no reason to believe he won't continue to make leaps in his game. Might be best to see how he does entering his 4th year of his rookie contract. Trading him in the summer doesn't allow us to see
• The guys behind him are complete question marks. He's continually improved every year, specifically on offense. He's only 24 and produces on the court

Unless a really good offer comes up like an exchange for an equally young and good player, I'd keep him for his 4th year. There's no rush to get rid of him. If he sucks it up, we can trade him anytime. If he's showed consistent improvements, let's offer him a reasonable extension in the offseason. If he makes giant leaps in his game, then he deserves big money from us.

I think his offense is actually worse than it was his rookie year. His true shooting % is really bad. He's been getting less efficient as each year passes. I commend him for trying to improve his offensive game but it's stalled out his defensive game and it's more than likely going to go no where anyway. He wants badly to be KAT but he simply isn't fluid enough and I don't know of very many successful interior post players that have been as robotic as he is. He's not terribly robotic but it's just enough to where he will never be able to finish his post moves with any sort of consistency.

I'd trade him if something of equal value came up. I'm just not seeing it from him. I think he can be a solid backup but he's not a starter on a playoff team unless there's a couple of all NBA players on that team with him.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Man I had high hopes for wcs. He was billed as a potential game changing defender who could lock down all 5 positions. I figured if he did that and put up like 10 and 10 then we had struck gold. The last thing I expected was that his offense would come along faster than his defense and rebounding. At this point I don't see him as anything more than an end of the bench big which is a shame considering what he couldve been.

 

[206Fan]

I think his offense is actually worse than it was his rookie year. His true shooting % is really bad. He's been getting less efficient as each year passes. I commend him for trying to improve his offensive game but it's stalled out his defensive game and it's more than likely going to go no where anyway. He wants badly to be KAT but he simply isn't fluid enough and I don't know of very many successful interior post players that have been as robotic as he is. He's not terribly robotic but it's just enough to where he will never be able to finish his post moves with any sort of consistency.
I'd trade him if something of equal value came up. I'm just not seeing it from him. I think he can be a solid backup but he's not a starter on a playoff team unless there's a couple of all NBA players on that team with him.

I disagree about his offense. His TS% is going down, but it's only because he's expanded his game. In his rookie year all of his shots came exclusively at the rim whether it was lobs, dunks, or putbacks. This year we're seeing him create his own shots and extend his range. He's added a solid mid-range shot, and he's improved his handles and driving ability. He's able to attack closeout which was something we never saw in his rookie year. He also has really good vision for a big with solid passing.
On the other hand, his defensive game hasn't improved much, but I do think his awareness is better. He does a better job at cutting off drivers and taking good angles of contest at the rim. However, his protection hasn't been there. He still struggles to box out.

I think WCS could definitely be a starter on a playoff team. Off the top of my head, he could start on these teams now: Spurs, Warriors, Bucks, Wizards, Cavaliers, and Celtics. He's a guy who would do well playing off of others. On a playoff team, no one is going to be looking for Willie to score like the Kings do. No one is going to be asking him to initiate the offense as much as the Kings do.

I still think the biggest question for Willie comes down to his effort and motivation. There's no reason why he can't also be a dominant force on defense on top of all the things he wants to become on offense. He's got the physical gifts of athleticism, length, quickness, and size to be a DPOY candidate. He was madly inconsistent in his 2nd year and even in the beginning of this year. Year 4 will be huge for him. I think it would be a mistake to trade him off for a late 1st.

I don't know where his trade value will be at in the summer, but I would only do a trade where we'd get an equally promising young player OR a higher draft pick.

While that is all well and good, holding onto him and them trading him before the deadline pretty much guarantees that you would get absolute minimum trade currency for him. Teams tend to offer more if they can have a look at the player for a whole season before deciding.

While I agree, it depends on what type of return you're talking about. I'd also have no problem trading him if we drafted Ayton.

I can't really think of any potential trades with him. I'd want a player of equal value back..but can't really think of anyone.

 

[jcassio]

I more or less agree with Folsomkingsfan. Had high hopes for Willie, but I can't keep saying let's give him time to develop. He's had 3 years. Time's up.

 

[ParniValjak]

Man I had high hopes for wcs. He was billed as a potential game changing defender who could lock down all 5 positions. I figured if he did that and put up like 10 and 10 then we had struck gold. The last thing I expected was that his offense would come along faster than his defense and rebounding. At this point I don't see him as anything more than an end of the bench big which is a shame considering what he couldve been.

The sad thing in all this is that Willie does not realize that if he actually did what he was billed as (i.e. a big man who could guard every position, provide rim protection, rebound, and get his offense from the lobs, put backs and rim running) he could actually be an all-star and a max type player. You are basically talking about a taller, more athletic modern day Ben Wallace type. If he is prepared to do what he was expected to do, he could be just as valuable to a team as Rudy Gobert but he is too busy wanting to be like Porzingis which of course he will never be.

 

[jiimbob]

With the 6th pick in the 2018 NBA draft the Sacramento Kings select Bamba. Then yes, it's time to free Willie.

Point is, it depends who we draft.

 

[ParniValjak]

With the 6th pick in the 2018 NBA draft the Sacramento Kings select Bamba. Then yes, it's time to free Willie.

Point is, it depends who we draft.

I would prefer Silver to say

“With the 1st pick in the 2018 NBA draft, the Sacramento Kings select DeAndre Ayton...”

 

[Joshoua]

I would prefer Silver to say

“With the 1st pick in the 2018 NBA draft, the Sacramento Kings select DeAndre Ayton...”

If he says “with the 1st pick Sacramento Kings select” it better start with Luka and end in Doncic

 

[One and Done]

OK - I'm iffy on Willie. I think he's an asset, but he's more useful on a playoff team as a fringe starter, and not worth anything more than a 3 year mid-level contract (ie $8-10m per year).

Here's the current state: he's an athletic plus defender and good passer for a big who takes care of the ball. On the downside, he's a slightly below-average rebounder and might never have reliable range outside of the basket. He hasn't gained any muscle or much strength, which has limited his game in the paint as well as vs. stronger matchups on the perimeter. Qualitatively, he's a space cadet at times, and does not do a good job setting screens.

Athletic bigs who can defend and pass well are a rare commodity. I'd keep Willie on a 3-year mid-range contract on that basis alone. I think he can still improve his rebounding (more on that later) and his passing will continue to improve. I'm not sure he'll ever expand his shooting game, as it's gotten worse every year, but I can live with that if he can cut his frequency in the midrange. Liability-wise, I'm worried about his focus and long-term health: if he's relegated to a rim-running role, will he lose interest in basketball altogether? Will his lack of strength cause durability issues? What will affect will his habits have on team culture? So there's potential liability, and a potentially immoveable contract as well if he loses interest or gets injured.

And now some statistical analysis, c/o Cleaning the Glass data:

Where He's Regressed

• Compared to other bigs in the league, he's in the bottom 25% of FG% from midrange, and this has gotten worse every year as his frequency has increased (he takes more midrange shots than 82% of bigs in the league - yikes!)
• His FT accuracy is the lowest of his three-year career (62%) putting him at the bottom 15% for bigs.
• His block rate (1.8%) declined from top-third in year one (2.4%) to slightly above league average for bigs, but slightly improved from last year.

Where He's Improved

• He's a good passer for a big, and has improved mightily every year (top 80% with a 12.7% assist rate). I never saw this coming, tbh.
• Taking care of the ball - even with his usage rate increasing every year he's kept his turnover rate flat at under 12% (top-third)
• He has improved drawing more fouls this year (on his shots as well as on non-shooting fouls)
• His steal rate is in the top 90% for bigs and has been improving every year
• He's fouling less every year, now in the top-third for bigs in lowest foul rate
• His offensive rebounding rate has slightly improved from last year (now slightly below league average in offensive rebounding) but still not as good as year 1 (top-third)
• His defensive rebounding rate has improved every year from and is now slightly above league average

So in actuality, he's improved more than he's declined. But is he meeting expectations? Slight no. We expected a top-tier shotblocker and defender, above average rebounder, and competent scorer. He's an above-average defender, more-than-competent scorer if he cuts the midrange shots, and an average rebounder/shotblocker (but both should be better due to his height). His lack of improvement in strength and muscle mass has negated a lot of defensive and rebounding potential, as has his focus. But he's also improved in other areas like passing, defending (outside of shotblocking), and overall skill.

Let's consider this last tidbit - how #6 picks perform. Over the last 20 years with the #6 pick he possesses the 5th highest PER thus far in his career, and is above league average and improving his PER every year. The median PER is between 11-12. Perhaps our expectations for the #6 have been to high?