Following 2018 draftees
- Thread starter Ozymandias
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The Ringer's draft guide lists his measurements as follows:
HEIGHT/WEIGHT 6'6''/226
WINGSPAN 6'8.75"
STANDING REACH 8'7"
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/ (make sure you change the setting on the left to "deep dive")
HEIGHT/WEIGHT 6'6''/226
WINGSPAN 6'8.75"
STANDING REACH 8'7"
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/ (make sure you change the setting on the left to "deep dive")
Looks more like an NFL runnng back or liebacker than a SF. Has good handlea and is able to get space in collage, but is his athleticism really elite? The times ive seen him he doesnt look all that explosive which id imagine would be very important for him to be upper tier in the NBA due to his measurements
We've been talking about possibly playing Bogdanovic at the SF and Miles Bridges is more or less the same height but with more weight in his frame. The wingspan is a little disappointing but I wouldn't let a few inches sour me on a prospect I really believe in. I see him as somewhere between Paul Pierce and Caron Butler if he reaches his potential which is a really good player.
It's hard to be too picky when you're picking in the second half of the lottery. Either of the Bridges or Wendell Carter or Mo Bamba would be a successful draft for me. Maybe somebody in the top 5 needs a PG badly enough to take Young or Sexton and somebody has a huge tournament and sneaks up a couple spots. I actually think there's a chance Doncic could fall to 4 or 5 if all the big guys go early. but he's not falling to 8 or 9.
It's hard to be too picky when you're picking in the second half of the lottery. Either of the Bridges or Wendell Carter or Mo Bamba would be a successful draft for me. Maybe somebody in the top 5 needs a PG badly enough to take Young or Sexton and somebody has a huge tournament and sneaks up a couple spots. I actually think there's a chance Doncic could fall to 4 or 5 if all the big guys go early. but he's not falling to 8 or 9.
I know we already have 2 SGs on the roster, but Zhaire Smith is extremely intriguing to me. His development throughout the season has been great for a freshman. I went from saying "eh, he's a raw(skill-wise) 2nd rounder who needs to stay in school" to "woah, this kid has STAR potential".
Athletic, good passer, high IQ, hustler, pesky. However, he needs to improve on his jumpshot and ball handling.
I would love to pair him next to Fox
Athletic, good passer, high IQ, hustler, pesky. However, he needs to improve on his jumpshot and ball handling.
I would love to pair him next to Fox
Last time I checked, we already have two SG's that could be paired next to Fox. How many do we need. I'm not objecting to Smith as a 2nd rd pick, but I certainly wouldn't use our first round pick on him, and we don't have one next year. Seriously, I doubt Smith declares, or if he does, it's simply to get a read on what teams think of him. Super athlete that came out of nowhere. I think he's definitely a 1st round pick next year, just like DiVincenzo of Villanova. Right now I like DiVincenzo a bit better because he's more skilled, and just as athletic. But both are going to be good NBA players down the road.
Well another one bites the dust as Mich St. goes down to Syracuse. I knew this was going to be tough one for Mich St. but in my humble opinion, they choked big time. Where the hell was Jaren Jackson. He did pull down some boards, but just 2 points. Don't know what the team shot as a whole, but it had to be bad.
Went and looked it up and they shot 25.8% overall as a team and 21.6% from the three. Your not going to beat many teams with those stats. Great players show up for big games. Only one that showed up in this game was Ward, and all his shots are layups or dunks.
Went and looked it up and they shot 25.8% overall as a team and 21.6% from the three. Your not going to beat many teams with those stats. Great players show up for big games. Only one that showed up in this game was Ward, and all his shots are layups or dunks.
I think he's going to fly up draft boards. He's everything Diallo was supposed to be this year at Kentucky..but with high IQ. He's a bit on the "raw" spectrum, but I would not be surprised to see him end up as one of the best players in this draft.
I'm drinking March Madness coolaid right now. Super impressed by him vs. Florida. Had him on my radar for a while though.
I'm drinking March Madness coolaid right now. Super impressed by him vs. Florida. Had him on my radar for a while though.
Im at a loss for the coaches use of Jackson. When they went to him he made good plays, sucking in the zone then kicking out to open man or trying to dump it to Ward. But then Mich St. just went away from him and even benched him down the stretch for no reaso i could fathom. I think Jackson is a player that doesnt seem to be in the good gracious of his coach. Definitely some flag questions raised with him in addition to his inability to adjust to how refs have been refing him. He is very handsy on defense pickjng up ceap whistles. I still lie him but a lot of the early luster with him has worn off for me and im not as dazzled with him as i was earlier in season. Id definitely put Bamba ahead of jackson now.
Doing some quick analysis on Wendell Carter, and his turnover rate really popped out:
- 2.1 Turnovers on 8.7FGA and 2.1 APG
- a 16% turnover rate, which is very high for any big
I haven't watched enough of his game... any reason why Carter turns over the ball at such a high rate? Is it a lack of ball handling skill, athleticism, basketball IQ? Very curious...
- 2.1 Turnovers on 8.7FGA and 2.1 APG
- a 16% turnover rate, which is very high for any big
I haven't watched enough of his game... any reason why Carter turns over the ball at such a high rate? Is it a lack of ball handling skill, athleticism, basketball IQ? Very curious...
He's like the center version of a pass first point guard. When he gets the ball, he's immediately looking to find the open man instead of looking to get his shot off. His turnover rate is the highest of the big men in the lottery (actually it looks like Jaren Jackson Jr's is slightly higher) but his assist rate is the highest as well. When he turns the ball over it's usually because he's trying to feed the ball down low to Bagley or something like that. It's not him dribbling off his knees or getting the ball stripped constantly or anything goofy like that.
Carter is an interesting case. He has taken a back seat to Bagley but instead of pouting or forcing up shots to "get his", he's embraced the role and played it about as well as you could ask for. He is the anti WCS in that he will go hard at the role given to him and not try to be something he's not.
In Joerger's system, he's probably the best big in the draft because he could work very easily in the high post. Problem is that I wish we would get away from Joerger's system, which seems like it produces low percentage shots. You want a versatile big but you don't want to run your offense through your big at the high post unless they are elite at passing. Carter has a good a chance as anybody to become a Gasol/Diaw/Cousins type passer but I really don't know if that's how winning basketball is going to be played from here going forward.
Carter is an interesting case. He has taken a back seat to Bagley but instead of pouting or forcing up shots to "get his", he's embraced the role and played it about as well as you could ask for. He is the anti WCS in that he will go hard at the role given to him and not try to be something he's not.
In Joerger's system, he's probably the best big in the draft because he could work very easily in the high post. Problem is that I wish we would get away from Joerger's system, which seems like it produces low percentage shots. You want a versatile big but you don't want to run your offense through your big at the high post unless they are elite at passing. Carter has a good a chance as anybody to become a Gasol/Diaw/Cousins type passer but I really don't know if that's how winning basketball is going to be played from here going forward.
Agree with pretty much everything here. Carter would be really good with Joerger. His statistical translation is very good as well. I wouldnt mind coming out of this draft with Carter + a wing in the second round.
Only thing I would like to add is that I don't hate the ball going to the high-post per se. Its forcing the shots from there with bad spacing instead of putting a shooter at the 4 and looking for cutters and shooters that bothers me. The warriors get the ball to the high-post all the time and run beautiful stuff from there.
Only thing I would like to add is that I don't hate the ball going to the high-post per se. Its forcing the shots from there with bad spacing instead of putting a shooter at the 4 and looking for cutters and shooters that bothers me. The warriors get the ball to the high-post all the time and run beautiful stuff from there.
Yeah the Warriors run it to perfection. It's just I don't know if I'd want to copy that. Draymond is probably the best passing big man in the game. Klay and Steph are probably the two best shooters of all time and Durant is well...Durant. Draymond's turnover rate was roughly the same as Carter's in college but his assist percentage was way higher and sometimes almost double that of Carter's.
I'm higher on Carter than most because I think he's the most versatile big in the draft and I think there's more to him than what we've seen. He's just taken a back seat to Bagley. I'll take a guy with no real weaknesses because you can play him next to anyone. Makes building a team much easier when you don't have to compensate for weaknesses like defense or the inability to shoot.
I'm higher on Carter than most because I think he's the most versatile big in the draft and I think there's more to him than what we've seen. He's just taken a back seat to Bagley. I'll take a guy with no real weaknesses because you can play him next to anyone. Makes building a team much easier when you don't have to compensate for weaknesses like defense or the inability to shoot.
If Vlade wants to rebuild the high IQ smart passing of glorys past Carter does seem the best fit. Him and Giles match weber/vlade passing aptitude and high IQ skill play. Add in the ability to shoot for Carter and the 2 of them could share the court well and rotate with Skal. If KK stays (id lime to keep him) he fits well with Skal and Carter but not so well with Giles for lack of shooting. Defensively, if Carter is a plus defensive center and able to switch to the smaller wigs wishout being a major liability id be very happy with him...
How does Carter compare to Jokic?
How does Carter compare to Jokic?
Obviously we are just guessing here but I don't think he will ever be as good as Jokic offensively. Jokic is a huge anomaly, especially in the passing game. Most comparisons for Carter are with Al Horford, which I think is the most spot on comparison for any of the lottery picks.
Carter doesn't have the reputation for being soft that Horford has but the rest of his game is very similar. I think he can become a 14pt, 10reb, 4ast, 1.5blk guy with solid defense in his prime.
He looks okay on switching with smaller wings but he's not nearly as versatile as Jaren Jackson Jr when it comes to that. I'd say he has average lateral quickness. He's not going to be able to guard a bunch of positions like Draymond can but he's not going to look like an immobile big man getting embarrassed off the dribble either. I'd say he would be a step below WCS when it comes to staying with quicker wings. I consider him a bit of a smaller mobile center but I think he will be able to hold his own strength wise in a couple years against the full sized players.
Carter doesn't have the reputation for being soft that Horford has but the rest of his game is very similar. I think he can become a 14pt, 10reb, 4ast, 1.5blk guy with solid defense in his prime.
He looks okay on switching with smaller wings but he's not nearly as versatile as Jaren Jackson Jr when it comes to that. I'd say he has average lateral quickness. He's not going to be able to guard a bunch of positions like Draymond can but he's not going to look like an immobile big man getting embarrassed off the dribble either. I'd say he would be a step below WCS when it comes to staying with quicker wings. I consider him a bit of a smaller mobile center but I think he will be able to hold his own strength wise in a couple years against the full sized players.
I really like Smith, and he's showing up at the right time, and I think he's definitely gone from a 2nd rd pick to a 1st rd pick. I have him somewhere between 20 and 25. He could go a bit higher depending on a team's needs, but as you say, he's still a bit raw in some areas. He's a freak athlete with good length that could play a little SF in small ball.
I'm still on the Mikal Bridges bandwagon, but if we keep winning, we'll move out the area he's going to be drafted in. Bridges could go as high as five, if Porter slides a bit, or as low as 8. I don't see him going much lower than that. Against a good Alabama team, he come out in the 2nd half and scored 16 points in about 5 minutes, hitting 5 three's, getting fouled on another three and making all three free throws. He also had a dunk, and he hit a 15 footer. I've always felt great players show up in big games, and Mikal showed up. So did Bagley, and to be fair, so did Young. Young's problem was that he didn't have a lot of help.
Another player that's likely to go in the first round, sight unseen for the most part is Anfernee Simmons. Another very talented SG. Although it's possible that Simmons pulls his name out of the draft before the deadline. Couple of Gonzaga players that I like are Zach Norvell, who lit it up in the last game, and Killian Tillie, who I see as a stretch four at the next level. Both these guys are first rd talent but will likely go in the 2nd round.
I'm still on the Mikal Bridges bandwagon, but if we keep winning, we'll move out the area he's going to be drafted in. Bridges could go as high as five, if Porter slides a bit, or as low as 8. I don't see him going much lower than that. Against a good Alabama team, he come out in the 2nd half and scored 16 points in about 5 minutes, hitting 5 three's, getting fouled on another three and making all three free throws. He also had a dunk, and he hit a 15 footer. I've always felt great players show up in big games, and Mikal showed up. So did Bagley, and to be fair, so did Young. Young's problem was that he didn't have a lot of help.
Another player that's likely to go in the first round, sight unseen for the most part is Anfernee Simmons. Another very talented SG. Although it's possible that Simmons pulls his name out of the draft before the deadline. Couple of Gonzaga players that I like are Zach Norvell, who lit it up in the last game, and Killian Tillie, who I see as a stretch four at the next level. Both these guys are first rd talent but will likely go in the 2nd round.
He has fairly narrow shoulders for a guy his size. Doesn't really have a wide body. He's obviously not Skal small and he has the frame to fill out better than Skal does but he's still in the bottom 10% as far as centers go.
He's just going to have to take the Al Horford route against bigger players. He always always able to irritate the hell out of Cousins due to being crafty. Not by muscling up on him.
He's just going to have to take the Al Horford route against bigger players. He always always able to irritate the hell out of Cousins due to being crafty. Not by muscling up on him.
Don't see a size/length problem with Carter at all at the 5. If you look at him too, he's just a well-built kid who definitely has the frame to get stronger once he gets in an NBA program. I think he's pretty damn close to the prototype of these new age centers too; he may be an inch or two shorter than the KAT/Embiid types, but it's not a concern as he's got a great wing-span/standing reach and he's obviously no stick-figure weight wise. Cousins is basically the only "Bully ball" big man left in the game. Guarding the other elite big man has become far more about your lateral quickness and being able to defend out to the perimeter and defend the face-up game. Glad to see others on him too and seeing a lot of what I'm seeing.
And there's just such a ridiculous benefit on the offensive end when you can find a 5 that can space the floor while finding someone who can be an impact big-man defender. I think this is a great chance to capitalize on an elite talent that's only getting overshadowed because of the hype that Bagley naturally comes with. If Carter had his own team, I think you'd be hearing him in far more conversations in the top 5 rather than a 6-10 prospect.
It's also really comforting when the advanced stats line up with what your eye-balls see on the court. He's an analytics monster at contributing in basically every area and it shows up in the tape. Just an incredibly smart player who constantly looks to make the right play, rebounds extremely well, defends extremely well, spaces the floor and probably has far more offensive upside than he was able to show on a stacked offensive Duke team. That's a talent in itself as you pointed out; the fact that he worked to "fit in" rather than "get his" to make the team better is something we should be commending about his game, especially considering the fact he's good enough to be the #1 option on 99% of the teams in the country.
I'm sold on him as my #4 prospect and he's only not higher because I think all 3 of Bagley/Ayton/Doncic can be elite #1 options in the future (top 10/15 offensive players in the game). I'd put Carter closer to an effective 15-17 PPG guy while being an above-average playmaker for a big-man who can shoot as his offensive ceiling.
I guess another question we can ask, is what do we nit-pick about his game? Non-elite athleticism? Is there anything else you can really point to about his game or in his numbers where you're like "Well he's just not going to be able to do ____ in the NBA." or "He significantly needs to improve on _____ in the NBA."
And there's just such a ridiculous benefit on the offensive end when you can find a 5 that can space the floor while finding someone who can be an impact big-man defender. I think this is a great chance to capitalize on an elite talent that's only getting overshadowed because of the hype that Bagley naturally comes with. If Carter had his own team, I think you'd be hearing him in far more conversations in the top 5 rather than a 6-10 prospect.
It's also really comforting when the advanced stats line up with what your eye-balls see on the court. He's an analytics monster at contributing in basically every area and it shows up in the tape. Just an incredibly smart player who constantly looks to make the right play, rebounds extremely well, defends extremely well, spaces the floor and probably has far more offensive upside than he was able to show on a stacked offensive Duke team. That's a talent in itself as you pointed out; the fact that he worked to "fit in" rather than "get his" to make the team better is something we should be commending about his game, especially considering the fact he's good enough to be the #1 option on 99% of the teams in the country.
I'm sold on him as my #4 prospect and he's only not higher because I think all 3 of Bagley/Ayton/Doncic can be elite #1 options in the future (top 10/15 offensive players in the game). I'd put Carter closer to an effective 15-17 PPG guy while being an above-average playmaker for a big-man who can shoot as his offensive ceiling.
I guess another question we can ask, is what do we nit-pick about his game? Non-elite athleticism? Is there anything else you can really point to about his game or in his numbers where you're like "Well he's just not going to be able to do ____ in the NBA." or "He significantly needs to improve on _____ in the NBA."
Yeah, the straight-line foot-speed isn't great and he probably won't be a weapon in transition like a lot of the top guys will. But I do think you got to trust the monstrous defensive numbers as well as your eyeballs in half-court defensive sets. I haven't noticed his athleticism or lateral quickness being a problem pretty much ever this season. And he's got really nice footwork and uses his length/size effectively.
Just one play, but you kind of get to see it all here. Shows out really nicely on the PnR Ball-handler, recovers back to the big in post- defense, provides good help on the driving ball-handler and then recovers quickly again to block the shot.
Just one play, but you kind of get to see it all here. Shows out really nicely on the PnR Ball-handler, recovers back to the big in post- defense, provides good help on the driving ball-handler and then recovers quickly again to block the shot.
I'd say lateral quickness, turnover prone and lower ceiling than some of the other lottery picks are his big 3 weaknesses.
Sactown ExPat makes a good point with Duke's zone defense. They had to go to the zone because the defense was so bad early on. They're starting 4 freshman and Grayson Allen who isn't much of a defender himself. I'd say Carter is easily the best defender of all the players who play big minutes for Duke but he isn't a defensive anchor down there.
The Clint Capela types are becoming popular because they are fairly quick, can defend the rim and make themselves big lob targets. A guy like Jaren Jackson Jr has a much higher ceiling than Carter because he has a chance to be Capela and Horford all rolled into one. Quick laterally, top tier shot blocker, shoots the 3 and is always looking to pass first. There could be no player like him currently in the NBA but he could also be a bust as fast as anyone.
Carter is a much safer pick but he's not going to set the world on fire. He's probably just going to play a winning form of basketball. The Kings are going to need to decide if there is a player worth rolling the dice on or if they just want to go with what should be a pretty well known quantity in Carter.
Sactown ExPat makes a good point with Duke's zone defense. They had to go to the zone because the defense was so bad early on. They're starting 4 freshman and Grayson Allen who isn't much of a defender himself. I'd say Carter is easily the best defender of all the players who play big minutes for Duke but he isn't a defensive anchor down there.
The Clint Capela types are becoming popular because they are fairly quick, can defend the rim and make themselves big lob targets. A guy like Jaren Jackson Jr has a much higher ceiling than Carter because he has a chance to be Capela and Horford all rolled into one. Quick laterally, top tier shot blocker, shoots the 3 and is always looking to pass first. There could be no player like him currently in the NBA but he could also be a bust as fast as anyone.
Carter is a much safer pick but he's not going to set the world on fire. He's probably just going to play a winning form of basketball. The Kings are going to need to decide if there is a player worth rolling the dice on or if they just want to go with what should be a pretty well known quantity in Carter.
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