Deadline Deals

[twslam07]

Except your odds of finding an all star outside of the top 5 picks is pretty slim. Someone posted that earlier.

Bogi is a really good player who makes others better. Trading him for a pick in the 10 range isn’t worth the risk.

Link?

Bogdan is a really good player and my favorite player on the team, but you need more than really good players to be a great team. We don't know who any of our stars are going to be yet. However, we have a good 25 year old player on the roster. You rarely see players after 25 make a big jump to stardom, so the chance at finding at finding a star with the 5th-10th pick or increasing the odds of landing a top 3 pick (15-25%) and finding a star there is very attractive to a team that has no established young stars on the roster.

Do what you can to acquire your 2-3 stars, and then start adding good players around them. Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

[ESP47]

Don't get me wrong, Bogdan is my favorite King too, but at the same time, you need to give something to get something.

You don't see many 25 year olds make a jump in performance. Can they get better? Of course, but how much really? I don't see our stars or franchise players yet. I don't see a Booker or a Towns or an Embiid or a Mitchell or a Porzingis or a Giannis or a Jokic on this team. It doesn't mean Fox can't emerge as that type of player (or a guy like Giles or Labissiere surprises us), but at this point, we don't know who those players are going to be for us. So until we know that, we should be making moves to collect players that have that type of potential.

You're not going anywhere without stars in this league. We must make sure we have ours in place before we start making moves that remove us from the top of the draft.

Are there any comparable players that have come over as a rookie at his age? I can't think of any off the top of my head but I'd like to see how they fared from their rookie seasons on.

I don't think Bogie is a 20ppg 5ast guy. He probably won't improve his skills a ton either but his numbers will continue to climb until he is firmly acclimated into the league and the offense. We've been seeing it recently with his bump in scoring. Small sample size so it could be nothing but it could also be him taking more control out there and being more like the Euroleague Bogie than the "get everyone involved and don't step on any toes" Bogie we saw at the beginning of the season.

 

[twslam07]

Don't necessarily disagree with overvaluing players but I completely disagree with the premise of dealing Bogi for an unknown. And also can't quite agree with your timeline in regards to his age and what you believe to be his prime and that when he's 30, you believe he's to old for the remainder of the team.

What I do believe in this case is that we had better hold on to known assets such as Bogi unless he's part of a deal bringing back a known upgrade....such as the TWolves finally cashing in on younger assets for known upgrades such as Jimmy Butler. That is the only time I will trade a guy like Bogi or Fox etc. the team is ready to take the next step and its time to get veteran all-star type presence on the roster.

I think in our case, based on current evaluations, our best case scenario would be similar to the Atlanta teams where they had several borderline or sometime all-stars in Horford and Millsap and worked as a team to accomplish great years. One can debate whether Milsap or Horford were considered franchise pieces....franchise player would have to be defined.

Celtics also come to mind......they have been building and having good success.......before this year, would any player be considered a franchise talent?

Point being, I believe the best avenue is to accumulate several young talents like Bogi, Fox, etc and acquire a franchise player through trade as opposed to dealing a known young assets in hopes of a better known asset......way to risky for this franchise.

The team is ready to take the next step? This team that has the worst record in the league is ready to take the next step? We literally have no young guys who have shown us anything that makes us very confident that we have a young star on our hands. We have a lot of young guys that have shown they could probably be decent to good players in this league but no stars (yet).

You do not, let me repeat, do not make win now moves when you have so much uncertainty with your prospects. That's how you hamstring yourself. What if Fox and our 2018 pick just turn out to be average players? Then you just have a bunch of mediocre talent on the team and we have to wait to get these win now veterans off the books so we can return to a level that will yield another high pick. Patience, my friend.

 

[twslam07]

Let me ask you this. How do you know that Bog's isn't a franchise player. We've had him for half a season, and your ready to judge the outcome of his career. You, nor I have no idea how good he can be, nor do we know that anyone we draft in the coming draft is going to be our franchise player. What I do know, is that Bog's is a dammed good player right now, and is going to get better. If I'm trading a SG, its Buddy, because right now, Bog's is a far superior player to Buddy, and it's not even close. You want to trade someone, then trade him. Or trade Malachi, who seems to be the odd man out. But when you've found a keeper, you keep him. It's not a matter of overvaluing, it's a matter of not overvaluing what your getting in return.

What I know is that Fox, Bogdanovic, and Willie seem to have good chemistry together, and all three have upside potential. So unless someone makes an offer that knocks my socks off, I'm not trading any of those three. I'm also not trading Giles until I find out what I have. The Suns did that with Bog's and trust me, they regret that now. Skal, I'm borderline on, and I would trade him in the right deal. Ditto Buddy, Jackson, Mason, Papa and Malachi. Not saying I'm anxious to trade any of them, but none of them are untouchable. Willie, Bog's, and Fox can all create their own shot off the dribble and all three can attack the close out. Buddy is iffy in that scenario, and often gets himself in trouble trying. Not saying that Buddy can't improve, but when you consider his time in college, you have to believe he's close to his ceiling in some areas. Hope I'm wrong about him. But I don't think I'am.

Nobody knows, but at the same time, you play the odds. Just because I don't know someone won't become a franchise player, doesn't mean I shouldn't trade him. I don't know if Terrence Ferguson will or will not be a franchise player but that doesn't mean I don't consider trading him. Again, you play the odds.

The odds of a 25 year old player making a jump to stardom is slim. Looking at past history, I would probably say Gasol & Ginboli are the guys that did this. So yes it's possible but no it's not likely.

 

[twslam07]

Certainly not outright, but a pick swap could be part of the deal. This would in essence improve our chances of getting a top 3 pick significantly.

Oh I like that idea a lot. Very good thinking.

Shumert, Smith, & the option to swap our pick with the BKN pick for Hill & Koufos. I think I like that better than getting the late 1st from them.

Even if we end up with the worst record, we have a 60% chance at a top 3 pick. Having that pick swap, adds another 13%-25% to those odds (depending on where BKN ends up).

 

[twslam07]

Are there any comparable players that have come over as a rookie at his age? I can't think of any off the top of my head but I'd like to see how they fared from their rookie seasons on.

I don't think Bogie is a 20ppg 5ast guy. He probably won't improve his skills a ton either but his numbers will continue to climb until he is firmly acclimated into the league and the offense. We've been seeing it recently with his bump in scoring. Small sample size so it could be nothing but it could also be him taking more control out there and being more like the Euroleague Bogie than the "get everyone involved and don't step on any toes" Bogie we saw at the beginning of the season.

I mentioned it in another post but M. Gasol & Ginobli were some of the only uses cases I found where a player significantly improved after 25 to become a star type player. It's not impossible but it's pretty rare.

 

[bajaden]

Bogdan has actually become my favorite player. If the Kings wanted the Brookyln pick, it would have to be Hill+Bogdan no doubt. Now, would I do it? I don't know. I don't care much about Hill. I wouldn't even mind if we just traded him in a salary dump and got nothing out of it. However, Bogdan? It would be difficult for me to do because I know he's locked in at the very least, a solid NBA player. The draft pick? Full of unknown and might turn into a GLeague player.

For me, it would come down to where the Nets pick. We have no clue if they'll pick 6th or 12th.

I would do the trade if it was a guaranteed top 8 pick. I like Bogdan, but the Kings are fortunate enough to have another starting caliber SG in Buddy Hield.

I don't think Vlade trades Bogdan unless he personally requests for one though.

I think the question is, who is the most desperate? Are we desperate to trade Hill? I don't think so. It would be nice for the team and for Hill, but we can keep going the way we are without it causing much of a change one way or the other. So, are the Cav's desperate? Yeah, I think so. They see their chance at winning another championship with Lebron slipping away, and this may be their last chance. So we're in the position of power here, not them. I'm not saying they're necessarily desperate for Hill, but hey, they brought it up, not us. So if they really want Hill, then the trade is going go be in our favor, which means we get the Net's pick, or their pick, and they don't get Bog's. I'd give them Hill and Malachi, or Hill and Jackson. I might even consider Hill and Buddy, but only if the Net's pick is on the table. I'll even throw in this years 2nd round pick. But Fox, Boganovic, Willie, Giles, and probably Skal are off the table. I see Willie, Giles, Bogdanovic, and Fox as four of our future starters, with Buddy and Skal, and maybe Papa coming off the bench.

The obvious need is at SF, a position we should be able to fill in the draft. There are three that I would be happy with. Doncic, Porter, and Mikal Bridges. Porter at this junction in the road is the mystery man. I've seen a ton of tape on him from highschool and the Nike, Jordan brand etc. games. But that was then and this is now, and we simply don't know number one how healthy he's going to be, and we certainly don't know how good a defender he'll be. All questions we hoped would be answered this season. I will admit that I'm very biased toward Bridges. He is one of the most fundamentally sound players in the draft, especially on the defensive side of the ball. He simply seldom makes mistakes, and if you leave him open from the three he'll hurt you. He's also excellent this season at attacking close outs. He's added post ups to his game as well.

If we were to trade down to add another pick and ended up with Mikal, I'd still be a happy man.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Not sure what your referring to. Looking at the standings right now, I'd say our chances at a top three pick are as good as anyone else's. I certainly wouldn't swap our pick for anyone else's pick, and I don't know what other pick you might be referring to.

I think the idea was that if we were to trade with CLE, we could get an option to swap with the BRK pick they own. In that case, if the BRK pick ended up better than ours we could swap. That would effectively give us a bunch more tickets to the lottery.

 

[bajaden]

Don't get me wrong, Bogdan is my favorite King too, but at the same time, you need to give something to get something.

You don't see many 25 year olds make a jump in performance. Can they get better? Of course, but how much really? I don't see our stars or franchise players yet. I don't see a Booker or a Towns or an Embiid or a Mitchell or a Porzingis or a Giannis or a Jokic on this team. It doesn't mean Fox can't emerge as that type of player (or a guy like Giles or Labissiere surprises us), but at this point, we don't know who those players are going to be for us. So until we know that, we should be making moves to collect players that have that type of potential.

You're not going anywhere without stars in this league. We must make sure we have ours in place before we start making moves that remove us from the top of the draft.

Being that you brought up Booker, who I liked a lot at Kentucky and who has turned into a fringe star in the league. He still plays out of control at times, and needs to tighten up his defense a bit, but there's a lot to like. So out of curiosity I thought I do a per 36 comparison between Booker and Bog's. Of course Booker is in his third year, and Bog's is in his first.
So, per 36 minutes per game..

Booker: 26.5 ppg - 44.3% fgp - 38.7% 3pp - 20 attempts per game - 7.4 3pt attempts per game - 88.3% ftp - 4.8 apg - 3.7 to's - 4.7 rpg - 57.7% true shooting - 31.4% usg - ortg 108 - drtg 114.
Bog's: 15.6 ppg - 48.9% fgp - 40.1% 3pp - 12 attempts per game - 5.1 3pt attempts per game - 82.4% ftp - 3.8 apf - 2.3 to's - 3.6 rpg - 60.0% true shooting - 19.1 usg - ortg 110 - drtg 114

The two main disparity's are that Bog's takes 8 less shots a game per 36, and his usage rate is 12% less. So one has to believe that if his usage rate was the same, and he took the same amount of shots, the rest of the stats would be very close to the same. Now I realize that it doesn't necessarily always work that way, and if the other numbers were to get closer, usually some of the shooting percentages would come down a tad. Thing is, I've always felt that if Booker had more shot discipline, he would shoot a higher percentage. One of the things I like about Bog's is that he seldom takes a bad shot. One of the things I don't like at times, is that sometimes he passes up good shots. Anyway, my point is, Bog's isn't that far away from being as good a player as Booker, and despite both having a 114 defensive rating, I think right now Bog's is a better defender. However, both suffer from being on bad defensive team.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Oh I like that idea a lot. Very good thinking.

Shumert, Smith, & the option to swap our pick with the BKN pick for Hill & Koufos. I think I like that better than getting the late 1st from them.

Even if we end up with the worst record, we have a 60% chance at a top 3 pick. Having that pick swap, adds another 13%-25% to those odds (depending on where BKN ends up).

The only problem with the optional swap is that there's (using the assumptions here) 75-87% chance that we get absolutely nothing. We'd have to, at minimum, get the CLE 2018 pick AND the optional swap for me to consider it. I'm not trading for an 87% chance at nothing, especially when a "win" is not necessarily a big move up.

 

[bajaden]

I think the idea was that if we were to trade with CLE, we could get an option to swap with the BRK pick they own. In that case, if the BRK pick ended up better than ours we could swap. That would effectively give us a bunch more tickets to the lottery.

Ahhh, gotcha! That makes sense..

 

[Suicide King]

The only problem with the optional swap is that there's (using the assumptions here) 75-87% chance that we get absolutely nothing. We'd have to, at minimum, get the CLE 2018 pick AND the optional swap for me to consider it. I'm not trading for an 87% chance at nothing, especially when a "win" is not necessarily a big move up.

I also took it as a possibility to maybe have a pick swap for say, 2020. However if CLE's pick doesnt convey to ATL in 2019, I don't know if that would work. I guess stipulations could be added like how our pick to the Bulls kept getting pushed back?

 

[dude12]

The team is ready to take the next step? This team that has the worst record in the league is ready to take the next step? We literally have no young guys who have shown us anything that makes us very confident that we have a young star on our hands. We have a lot of young guys that have shown they could probably be decent to good players in this league but no stars (yet).

You do not, let me repeat, do not make win now moves when you have so much uncertainty with your prospects. That's how you hamstring yourself. What if Fox and our 2018 pick just turn out to be average players? Then you just have a bunch of mediocre talent on the team and we have to wait to get these win now veterans off the books so we can return to a level that will yield another high pick. Patience, my friend.

Try reading comprehension......when this team is ready to make the next step....to do that they need to keep acquiring young players who can be assets........or you can just twist crap around because so,done doesnt agree with you as you usually do.

My explanation on what they should do is much more sound than your gerbil on a wheel, hope and a prayer with trading Bogi for a pick and hope its a franchise player idea.

 

[twslam07]

Try reading comprehension......when this team is ready to make the next step....to do that they need to keep acquiring young players who can be assets........or you can just twist poopoo around because so,done doesnt agree with you as you usually do.

My explanation on what they should do is much more sound than your gerbil on a wheel, hope and a prayer with trading Bogi for a pick and hope its a franchise player idea.

Excuse me? I think my reading comprehension is fine as you did not say "when"...

What I do believe in this case is that we had better hold on to known assets such as Bogi unless he's part of a deal bringing back a known upgrade....such as the TWolves finally cashing in on younger assets for known upgrades such as Jimmy Butler. That is the only time I will trade a guy like Bogi or Fox etc. the team is ready to take the next step and its time to get veteran all-star type presence on the roster.

In fact, you said the team is ready to make said move. If that's not what you meant and want to back pedal on your statements, that's fine, but there is no need to be rude when I am reading your words exactly as they are written. Have some class.

 

[sactowndog]

Link?

Bogdan is a really good player and my favorite player on the team, but you need more than really good players to be a great team. We don't know who any of our stars are going to be yet. However, we have a good 25 year old player on the roster. You rarely see players after 25 make a big jump to stardom, so the chance at finding at finding a star with the 5th-10th pick or increasing the odds of landing a top 3 pick (15-25%) and finding a star there is very attractive to a team that has no established young stars on the roster.

Do what you can to acquire your 2-3 stars, and then start adding good players around them. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Here is the raw data. Feel free to dump it into a spreadsheet and see the odds of any one pick around 10 being an all star let alone a multi-game all star like you are talking about. I think you will find it’s in the low single digits.

http://www.nba-allstar.com/players/lists/players-by-draft-pick.htm

As for Bogdan, your data would be correct for players who have been in the league 2-3 years. I don’t think it’s accurate for a player in his first year. Especially with a team still trying to understand how to play as a team.

 

[sactowndog]

Being that you brought up Booker, who I liked a lot at Kentucky and who has turned into a fringe star in the league. He still plays out of control at times, and needs to tighten up his defense a bit, but there's a lot to like. So out of curiosity I thought I do a per 36 comparison between Booker and Bog's. Of course Booker is in his third year, and Bog's is in his first.
So, per 36 minutes per game..

Booker: 26.5 ppg - 44.3% fgp - 38.7% 3pp - 20 attempts per game - 7.4 3pt attempts per game - 88.3% ftp - 4.8 apg - 3.7 to's - 4.7 rpg - 57.7% true shooting - 31.4% usg - ortg 108 - drtg 114.
Bog's: 15.6 ppg - 48.9% fgp - 40.1% 3pp - 12 attempts per game - 5.1 3pt attempts per game - 82.4% ftp - 3.8 apf - 2.3 to's - 3.6 rpg - 60.0% true shooting - 19.1 usg - ortg 110 - drtg 114

The two main disparity's are that Bog's takes 8 less shots a game per 36, and his usage rate is 12% less. So one has to believe that if his usage rate was the same, and he took the same amount of shots, the rest of the stats would be very close to the same. Now I realize that it doesn't necessarily always work that way, and if the other numbers were to get closer, usually some of the shooting percentages would come down a tad. Thing is, I've always felt that if Booker had more shot discipline, he would shoot a higher percentage. One of the things I like about Bog's is that he seldom takes a bad shot. One of the things I don't like at times, is that sometimes he passes up good shots. Anyway, my point is, Bog's isn't that far away from being as good a player as Booker, and despite both having a 114 defensive rating, I think right now Bog's is a better defender. However, both suffer from being on bad defensive team.

I think a couple things on Bogs

1) he is still adjusting to the speed of the game. His recent game where he went 6-6 from 3 was one of the first time I have seen him catch and shoot with less space.

2) I can’t count the number of times Bogi has stood alone at the 3 point line while our post players or a driving Fox forced shots instead of kicking the ball out. As Fox matures and a high IQ Giles and Doncic get on the court his open shots will increase.

3) Bogi’s timing on his step back 3 is going to get better with a summer to work solely on it which he hasn’t had in 2-3 years. I also expect he will add an escape dribble to reset for 3 rather than a forward long 2.

All three of those things, combined with increased minutes will IMHO drive Bogi’s PPG into the 25 ppg range.

 

[kingsboi]

I think a couple things on Bogs

1) he is still adjusting to the speed of the game. His recent game where he went 6-6 from 3 was one of the first time I have seen him catch and shoot with less space.

2) I can’t count the number of times Bogi has stood alone at the 3 point line while our post players or a driving Fox forced shots instead of kicking the ball out. As Fox matures and a high IQ Giles and Doncic get on the court his open shots will increase.

3) Bogi’s timing on his step back 3 is going to get better with a summer to work solely on it which he hasn’t had in 2-3 years. I also expect he will add an escape dribble to reset for 3 rather than a forward long 2.

All three of those things, combined with increased minutes will IMHO drive Bogi’s PPG into the 25 ppg range.

Bogs a 25 PPG scorer? No way. His ceiling is 16-17 PPG IMO

 

[HndsmCelt]

Not sure what your referring to. Looking at the standings right now, I'd say our chances at a top three pick are as good as anyone else's. I certainly wouldn't swap our pick for anyone else's pick, and I don't know what other pick you might be referring to.

The language on the swap generally and in this case should stipulate that in addition to the other real assets Cleveland gives up in the trade (read: players) the Kings would retain the RIGHT to trade picks should the BK pick fall ahead of the Kings natural pick. Think of it as insurance or a way to enhance the kings odds of a top 3 pick to above 80%

 

[sactowndog]

Bogs a 25 PPG scorer? No way. His ceiling is 16-17 PPG IMO

Are you kidding me? He’s averaging 15.3 over the past 10 games on 30 min per game and 10.4 shots a game.

Most NBA starters play 34-36 minutes and starting high caliber shooting guards take more than 10 shots a game. Oladipo puts up 18 shots a game and Klay puts up 16. Even if he doesn’t improve from here at all he adds 4-6 more points a game just on minutes and more shots alone.

Of players with more than 2 3 pt. attempts a game he is 25th in percentage and 75th in attempts. Those numbers will change for sure. He should be taking 6-7 attempts a game.

 

[twslam07]

Are you kidding me? He’s averaging 15.3 over the past 10 games on 30 min per game and 10.4 shots a game.

Most NBA starters play 34-36 minutes and starting high caliber shooting guards take more than 10 shots a game. Oladipo puts up 18 shots a game and Klay puts up 16. Even if he doesn’t improve from here at all he adds 4-6 more points a game just on minutes and more shots alone.

Of players with more than 2 3 pt. attempts a game he is 25th in percentage and 75th in attempts. Those numbers will change for sure. He should be taking 6-7 attempts a game.

So now we think Bogdan has the potential to be a top 10 scorer in this league? You do realize that the only players that average at least 25 PPG are...

Harden
Giannis
LeBron
Davis
Durant
Booker
Cousins
Lillard
DeRozan

guys like Westbrook, Irving, Walker, Beal, McCollum, Porzingis, Butler, Towns, Aldridge, Embiid, Oladipo, and George aren't even that high.

He's a good player but we need to seriously reign it back on these expectations.

 

[sactowndog]

So now we think Bogdan has the potential to be a top 10 scorer in this league? You do realize that the only players that average at least 25 PPG are...

Harden
Giannis
LeBron
Davis
Durant
Booker
Cousins
Lillard
DeRozan

guys like Westbrook, Irving, Walker, Beal, McCollum, Porzingis, Butler, Towns, Aldridge, Embiid, Oladipo, and George aren't even that high.

He's a good player but we need to seriously reign it back on these expectations.

If you round up their are 12 25 point plus scorers. I think he has a shot depending on how he develops. He has to get more consistent and assertive with the step back 3. I think he is certainly a 20 point a game scorer in this league for the reasons I detailed.

 

[Joshoua]

Omg just shut up about trading Bogdan seriously.

And I don’t think he’s a 20ppg player I’d say more 15-18ppg 4-5apg not bad defense that’s a very good player.

 

[ParniValjak]

If you round up their are 12 25 point plus scorers. I think he has a shot depending on how he develops. He has to get more consistent and assertive with the step back 3. I think he is certainly a 20 point a game scorer in this league for the reasons I detailed.

Settle down mate! I like Bogdan, have watched him since he was playing underage basketball. I have no problem expressing my bias for a player that I have followed for over a decade but saying he can be a 25ppg scorer is taking it way too far. Even on a bad team where he can do what he likes, he is not getting there. He is definitely not getting there if Kings ever get a franchise guy capable of being a perennial 25+ ppg player.

There is a whole heap wrong with putting those sort of expectations on anyone. It creates unrealistic expectations to start with and those turn to dislike once player fails to meet those lofty expectations. See Kevin Martin, Tyreke Evans et al.

There is nothing wrong with jack of all trades type of player who averages 16-18ppg on a perennial play off team. Bogdan IS that guy. He is NOT 25ppg type!

 

[sactowndog]

Settle down mate! I like Bogdan, have watched him since he was playing underage basketball. I have no problem expressing my bias for a player that I have followed for over a decade but saying he can be a 25ppg scorer is taking it way too far. Even on a bad team where he can do what he likes, he is not getting there. He is definitely not getting there if Kings ever get a franchise guy capable of being a perennial 25+ ppg player.

There is a whole heap wrong with putting those sort of expectations on anyone. It creates unrealistic expectations to start with and those turn to dislike once player fails to meet those lofty expectations. See Kevin Martin, Tyreke Evans et al.

There is nothing wrong with jack of all trades type of player who averages 16-18ppg on a perennial play off team. Bogdan IS that guy. He is NOT 25ppg type!

First off we are discussing facts. So not sure where settle down comes from.

In the last 10 Games he is already averaging 15.3 points a game on only 10 shots a game and 30 minutes. If he only ups his 3 point shot attempt to 6 a game which is barely average for a high percentage 3 point shooter he is at 18.9 pts a game on that fact alone (assuming 40% from 3).

If he attempts 8 3 point shots a game (which I think he should) then his average goes to 21.3 points a game.

Given the number of times I have seen
1) Bogs standing alone at the 3 pt line while our low IQ player force a shot.
2) not make defenses pay by going under the screen on the pick and roll.

Getting 5 more attempts a game is not unrealistic. That puts him at 21.3 (conservatively putting him at 40% shooting from deep). If he improves his step back 3 and ability to create off the dribble he could do more.

19-21 pts per game is the floor for Bogi assuming no more improvement just from playing with smarter people and making teams pay going under on the pick and roll.

 

[twslam07]

First off we are discussing facts. So not sure where settle down comes from.

In the last 10 Games he is already averaging 15.3 points a game on only 10 shots a game and 30 minutes. If he only ups his 3 point shot attempt to 6 a game which is barely average for a high percentage 3 point shooter he is at 18.9 pts a game on that fact alone (assuming 40% from 3).

If he attempts 8 3 point shots a game (which I think he should) then his average goes to 21.3 points a game.

Given the number of times I have seen
1) Bogs standing alone at the 3 pt line while our low IQ player force a shot.
2) not make defenses pay by going under the screen on the pick and roll.

Getting 5 more attempts a game is not unrealistic. That puts him at 21.3 (conservatively putting him at 40% shooting from deep). If he improves his step back 3 and ability to create off the dribble he could do more.

19-21 pts per game is the floor for Bogi assuming no more improvement just from playing with smarter people and making teams pay going under on the pick and roll.

Efficiency doesn't tend to hold consistent by telling a guy to just shoot more. Bogdan is efficient because he makes the correct read and doesn't force shots. He picks his spots and takes high percentage looks. What you are recommending him to do could completely contradict how he plays and why he is a good player to begin with.

 

[Joshoua]

Willy Hernangomez is a guy I’d trade for instantly give them Skal and a 2nd. He played very good for the Knicks when he was givingbtime last year and was a dominant rebounder and good post scorer and passer.

 

[sactowndog]

Efficiency doesn't tend to hold consistent by telling a guy to just shoot more. Bogdan is efficient because he makes the correct read and doesn't force shots. He picks his spots and takes high percentage looks. What you are recommending him to do could completely contradict how he plays and why he is a good player to begin with.

I get that but in many cases Bogdan is passing up shots he should be taking or our players aren’t correctly psssing out to open shooters (Bogdan).

He looks for the very good instead of taking the good. I expect that will change. He also isn't make teams pay for going under the pick and roll. I expect that to change also. But to your point, that is why I ran my numbers at 40% shooting from 3 instead of using the 50% he is shooting in the last 10 games or a more probable 43-45%.

In a standard 8-9 man rotation playing with better IQ players I don’t see how Bogdan doesn’t take 3-5 more 3’s a game and that he doesn’t make 40% of those. That alone puts him at 19-21 points a game.

If you think I’m wrong happy to bet you $100 bucks he is at 19-21 a game minimum by year 3

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If you think I’m wrong happy to bet you $100 bucks he is at 19-21 a game minimum by year 3

While there's no obvious legal issue (compare to say, posting links to illegal streams) I do believe we frown a bit on monetary challenge bets here - if for no reason other than that anonymous people on the internet are not terribly likely to pay up.

Here, this sort of challenge bet is probably best done via the "signature bet", where the loser agrees to change their signature to whatever the winner chooses (often this text is also agreed upon in advance) for a particular period of time. No more monetary challenges, please and thank you.

 

[twslam07]

I get that but in many cases Bogdan is passing up shots he should be taking or our players aren’t correctly psssing out to open shooters (Bogdan).

He looks for the very good instead of taking the good. I expect that will change. He also isn't make teams pay for going under the pick and roll. I expect that to change also. But to your point, that is why I ran my numbers at 40% shooting from 3 instead of using the 50% he is shooting in the last 10 games or a more probable 43-45%.

In a standard 8-9 man rotation playing with better IQ players I don’t see how Bogdan doesn’t take 3-5 more 3’s a game and that he doesn’t make 40% of those. That alone puts him at 19-21 points a game.

If you think I’m wrong happy to bet you $100 bucks he is at 19-21 a game minimum by year 3

19 is doable. 25 is unrealistic. If you want to back pedal on your 25 PPG, that's fine (and smart), but if you're confident in your belief that Bogdan is a 25 PPG player, we can do a signature bet at 25.0 PPG or higher in a season by the end of his third year.

 

[sactowndog]

While there's no obvious legal issue (compare to say, posting links to illegal streams) I do believe we frown a bit on monetary challenge bets here - if for no reason other than that anonymous people on the internet are not terribly likely to pay up.

Here, this sort of challenge bet is probably best done via the "signature bet", where the loser agrees to change their signature to whatever the winner chooses (often this text is also agreed upon in advance) for a particular period of time. No more monetary challenges, please and thank you.

Fair enough. A sig bet