Summer League Impressions (other than Kings)

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206Fan

All-Star
#151
#151
Kingsfan23 said:
Aside from the injury concerns about his knee, one of the issues with DSJ was motor/leadership. When he plays to his capabilities he's beast, and the first few games of his NBA career means he will be giving everything he has. Mid December? We will see
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His injury concerns have never been warranted imo. He had 1 ACL tear in HS, then come back in college and had a great season. He showed no slowdown at all and regained 120% of his athleticism back.

I think lots of his problems are overplayed, but you're right. Let's see by mid-Dec. I think Kings fans will regret not giving him more of a chance. He's a legitimate candidate for ROY.
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#152
#152
206Fan said:
His injury concerns have never been warranted imo. He had 1 ACL tear in HS, then come back in college and had a great season. He showed no slowdown at all and regained 120% of his athleticism back.

I think lots of his problems are overplayed, but you're right. Let's see by mid-Dec. I think Kings fans will regret not giving him more of a chance. He's a legitimate candidate for ROY.
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Not really his speed now I'm concerned about as the percentage of reaggravability for someone who goes that hard. He can definitely be one of the best in the draft though if things shake right.

I was split on Fox/Smith, both can be very good and have their own pluses or minuses. Tie goes for me to who showed initiative in wanting to be here. Smith worked out for Top 3/Magic/Knicks I think... Fox had positive to say about playing here
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#154
#154
Kingsfan23 said:
I'm not sure I see Mitchell as a lead NBA guard as of now, or at least in the sense of being the primary playmaker, so it might be interesting how he does against NBA twos.
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Donovan played PG against Grizzlies and scored 37 points and had 8 steals (summer league record). He only got credit with 1 assist but he was running offense well, teammates were just missing. There is NO doubt in my mind he's a PG. He's more of a PG than Fultz.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#155
#155
Kingsfan23 said:
Not really his speed now I'm concerned about as the percentage of reaggravability for someone who goes that hard. He can definitely be one of the best in the draft though if things shake right.

I was split on Fox/Smith, both can be very good and have their own pluses or minuses. Tie goes for me to who showed initiative in wanting to be here. Smith worked out for Top 3/Magic/Knicks I think... Fox had positive to say about playing here
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Smith didn't work out in SAC because we weren't interested. He worked out in ORL too.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#162
#162
Blob said:
I may have underestimated Dennis Smith. The main issue I had with him was his effort towards the end of the college season. He was completely disengaged. He looked engaged yesterday. And unlike Fultz he is definitely a PG. But he is going to struggle defensively and he does not cover a lot of ground with his strides. The escape quickness is not there. That is a concern for a player of his length (6'3"). He is more of power PG than a speed PG. He does have pretty good court vision though and held his own against Dunn. Good debut. And Lauri M. can put the ball down on the floor which makes him formidable when he gets run off the line. He showed something. The guy who was a disaster was Cameron Payne, looked worse than a rookie, and who the Bulls gave up a lot to get. So glad we didn't trade for him.
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When I was watching Smith I was surprised with his deceptive change of speed move. While not gifted with incredible speed he has some crafty moves to get around defenders.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#166
#166
Gargamel said:
Lonzo, 36 pts, 8 rebs, 11 assists, 5 steals, 2 blocks, 12/22 fg. Woot!
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Sometimes when you're actually in the building, you have a different perspective than you get from just watching TV, or looking at the box score. The box score looks great. I'm sure it looked awesome on TV. But let me tell you, from center court about 8 rows up...it looked WAY WAY WAY WAY better than you can possibly imagine. Lonzo has some defensive issues, but he is going to be an absolute superstar. I know it's only summer league, but that might have been the best performance I've ever been in the building for, ever.

Too bad he's a Laker. He will haunt us for over a decade.
 
Gargamel

Gargamel

Starter
#167
#167
Capt. Factorial said:
Sometimes when you're actually in the building, you have a different perspective than you get from just watching TV, or looking at the box score. The box score looks great. I'm sure it looked awesome on TV. But let me tell you, from center court about 8 rows up...it looked WAY WAY WAY WAY better than you can possibly imagine. Lonzo has some defensive issues, but he is going to be an absolute superstar. I know it's only summer league, but that might have been the best performance I've ever been in the building for, ever.

Too bad he's a Laker. He will haunt us for over a decade.
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Good post there. We need fewer "hot takes". I think his shot and first step are at least not as dire as NBA fans at large as well as highly paid "sports entertainment analysts" on BSPN are selling. The hot take crowd. He's not an elite athlete, but he doesn't look like a zombie either. There's gotta be some middle ground there. He's plainly not like Rondo with his scoring and he's a better passer than Rubio, thought that comparison isn't as absurd as the Rondo one. That's gotta be lazy hot take juice. There's hating the Lakers and there's refusing to admit what you're seeing. Like all rookies, including all 6 top picks (including your kid, sorry), he's gonna take his lumps here and there. That's only natural. He might play bad tomorrow and I won't duck you like Zo OBVIOUSLY ducked Fox ;) . I think he'll vacillate between excellent lines and semi-no shows (maybe tomorrow, they play again), but that passing is Kidd lite. Not just the passing, but the insta-reads. Not since Kidd. I might not realize the extent to which fans hated his father because I didn't watch a ton of NCAA and believe it or not, I don't have a Twitter or Instagram account(gasp!). I don't look at that crap, but I learned over time that just because it's crap doesn't mean the rest of the world hates it. Therefore, I dunno how to weigh the Lavar thing against the Lakers thing against the Celtics/Pistons thing.
 
K

kingdivac

All-Star
#170
#170
Gargamel said:
Good post there. We need fewer "hot takes". I think his shot and first step are at least not as dire as NBA fans at large as well as highly paid "sports entertainment analysts" on BSPN are selling. The hot take crowd. He's not an elite athlete, but he doesn't look like a zombie either. There's gotta be some middle ground there. He's plainly not like Rondo with his scoring and he's a better passer than Rubio, thought that comparison isn't as absurd as the Rondo one. That's gotta be lazy hot take juice. There's hating the Lakers and there's refusing to admit what you're seeing. Like all rookies, including all 6 top picks (including your kid, sorry), he's gonna take his lumps here and there. That's only natural. He might play bad tomorrow and I won't duck you like Zo OBVIOUSLY ducked Fox ;) . I think he'll vacillate between excellent lines and semi-no shows (maybe tomorrow, they play again), but that passing is Kidd lite. Not just the passing, but the insta-reads. Not since Kidd. I might not realize the extent to which fans hated his father because I didn't watch a ton of NCAA and believe it or not, I don't have a Twitter or Instagram account(gasp!). I don't look at that crap, but I learned over time that just because it's crap doesn't mean the rest of the world hates it. Therefore, I dunno how to weigh the Lavar thing against the Lakers thing against the Celtics/Pistons thing.
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(on Ball) "He's not an elite athlete".....I dunno, in highlights when I see Ball run on the break he has very good pace - he's not quick like Fox is, but his pace is impressive. He reminds me of a mid-fielder in soccer - high energy. On the Kidd comparison, Kidd was a particularly distinguished defender....his disruption against the Heat was a big contributor to why Dallas won the NBA championship. I don't think Ball will ever be as good a defender. When Kidd was on the floor later in his career on defense, the other team gets hampered either on the boards, or with badgering, or most of all Kidd's uncanny feel for intercepting offensive ball rotations or lazy inlet passing. Kidd's shooting got a little better later in his career - especially 3's, but that was his main knock. You could easily live with erratic shooting considering everything else he brought.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#171
#171
I was impressed with the Kids passing ability. The two long passes to Kuzma I saw were really sweet. Kuzma is also a good receiver with good ability to finish. These two are going to be a pain to defend for the Kings. The solution will be to run them to into the ground on defense.

Too bad they are Lakers. They will develop that same smug entitled look most Lakers get.
 
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King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#172
#172
Dennis Smith Jr. looks like his name should be CP3 Jr. The Kid has a great hesitation move that seems to fool defenders just about every time. He also does the fake pass like Rondo and defenders jump at it. He has a little Jedi in him.

What a great group of rookies we are seeing in SL.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#174
#174
Capt. Factorial said:
Sometimes when you're actually in the building, you have a different perspective than you get from just watching TV, or looking at the box score. The box score looks great. I'm sure it looked awesome on TV. But let me tell you, from center court about 8 rows up...it looked WAY WAY WAY WAY better than you can possibly imagine. Lonzo has some defensive issues, but he is going to be an absolute superstar. I know it's only summer league, but that might have been the best performance I've ever been in the building for, ever.

Too bad he's a Laker. He will haunt us for over a decade.
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J-Will was a far better talent. Was a J-Will a superstar? Lonzo has major issues that did not show up in the box score but obvious to astute observer. He was playing against trash competition. His defense is terrible. His effort is not good. His defense is predicated on taking chances. He goes under every screen and gives the guard free reign. He may get away with that against the G-Leaguers. He is not going to get away with that against George Hill or Chris Paul. My thing on guys I don't like like Tatum and Lonzo is that if you make your shot you are going to be okay. He made his shot last night. Wide open and uncontested. And he got hot. Credit to him. And the lay-up and an one was a nice finish against a 6'1" defender. It was pick-up rec league garbage time basketball and he excelled.

Lonzo has an obvious knack for throw ahead passes a la Kevin Love. And Ricky Rubio. Is Ricky Rubio a superstar? To be a superstar you cannot have holes in your game. This guy is a bad defender (poor effort AND lateral mobility and physicality). He has weak on-one-one moves to breakdown a defender. He has no in between game (no floater, no pull-up jumper). He doesn't finish particularly strong at the rim. He doesn't draw contact. His shot is not trustworthy. These are ALL traits you have to have to be a star let alone superstar. Now is he going to overcome all these deficiencies and become the superstar you expect him to be. Well anything is possible, I suppose, after all, Papa G went for 17/13 last night. :) But I would not bet on Lonzo Ball being anything more than a really good passer, a below average defender, and a spotty scorer. The traits are just not there in terms of hustle, competitiveness, and athleticism to equate into a superstar. You cannot be a superstar based on one skill (passing).
 
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Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#176
#176
One reason I like Ball is because he's good for the league. The more attention Ball gets for his passing, the more players are going to want to pass the ball, not just on the Lakers, but around the league. It's just human nature.

I hope the Kings get some of the passing "bug" that Ball has. Willingness is the first step to passing the ball. Fox and Jackson are both fine additions to the Kings' ability to pass the ball. WCS can pass; Papa can pass. Now it's up to others to keep their head up and pass the ball.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#177
#177
I have no hate for Ball. I love watching him play. I just wish he'd gone somewhere else other than LA.

I said at the time that Sixers should've take him over Fultz. I think Fultz will be very good but I think Philly was an ideal fit for Ball and vice versa.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#178
#178
Blob said:
J-Will was a far better talent. Was a J-Will a superstar? Lonzo has major issues that did not show up in the box score but obvious to astute observer. He was playing against trash competition. His defense is terrible. His effort is not good. His defense is predicated on taking chances. He goes under every screen and gives the guard free reign. He may get away with that against the G-Leaguers. He is not going to get away with that against George Hill or Chris Paul. My thing on guys I don't like like Tatum and Lonzo is that if you make your shot you are going to be okay. He made his shot last night. Wide open and uncontested. And he got hot. Credit to him. And the lay-up and an one was a nice finish against a 6'1" defender. It was pick-up rec league garbage time basketball and he excelled.

Lonzo has an obvious knack for throw ahead passes a la Kevin Love. And Ricky Rubio. Is Ricky Rubio a superstar? To be a superstar you cannot have holes in your game. This guy is a bad defender (poor effort AND lateral mobility and physicality). He has weak on-one-one moves to breakdown a defender. He has no in between game (no floater, no pull-up jumper). He doesn't finish particularly strong at the rim. He doesn't draw contact. His shot is not trustworthy. These are ALL traits you have to have to be a star let alone superstar. Now is he going to overcome all these deficiencies and become the superstar you expect him to be. Well anything is possible, I suppose, after all, Papa G went for 17/13 last night. :) But I would not bet on Lonzo Ball being anything more than a really good passer, a below average defender, and a spotty scorer. The traits are just not there in terms of hustle, competitiveness, and athleticism to equate into a superstar. You cannot be a superstar based on one skill (passing).
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J-Will couldn't rebound like Ball. Don't you think it's a nice combo to have - getting the ball off the board into the hands of an elite passer and dribbler who can begin the break? He can also post up smaller guards - not a bad trait to have, especially if you can have a post player with his passing skills. Ball's defense needs work though. A lot of it is obviously because he's not interested right now in playing defense. He's got the size and enough athleticism to be a decent defender, but he should become better than decent because of his instincts for the game. I expect that as with most rookies, Ball's weaknesses will be exposed in his first year. They'll scout the hell out of him and make him do what he's not good at. But he's just too intelligent of a player not to adapt his game over the next few years and become very good. I'd say Rubio is the absolute bottom for him in terms of a comparison. He's got a HOFer ceiling, imo. We'll see how it goes over the next few years...
 
The Effort Police

The Effort Police

Starter
#179
#179
Kingster said:
One reason I like Ball is because he's good for the league. The more attention Ball gets for his passing, the more players are going to want to pass the ball, not just on the Lakers, but around the league. It's just human nature.

I hope the Kings get some of the passing "bug" that Ball has. Willingness is the first step to passing the ball. Fox and Jackson are both fine additions to the Kings' ability to pass the ball. WCS can pass; Papa can pass. Now it's up to others to keep their head up and pass the ball.
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You may think he's good for the league, but I hate the way he plays. Flashy outlet passes and transition buckets with no real substance to other, real important parts of his game?

I'd hate it if we or anyone else became more like him.
 
kingsfan1984

kingsfan1984

Starter
#180
#180
Ball more than anyone needs to be judged againat NBA competition. If draft was held after summer league i would still pick Fox over Ball easily. YES im rooting against Ball because he is a Laker and its fun to hate on them, but there are a number of big red flags that make me question if he can be effective at next level that just wont be answered until the season. If i was to place a bet though i would confidently put money on him NOT being a star
 
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