Free Agency Open Thread (NBA and Kings!)
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Michael Gallagher: Woj on ESPN: Toronto could be looking to dump DeMarre Carroll’s contract.
– via Twitter MikeSGallagher
I think he has about 2 years on his contract at around 15 mil a year. Not too young but not too old at 30
– via Twitter MikeSGallagher
I think he has about 2 years on his contract at around 15 mil a year. Not too young but not too old at 30
Smells like a bluff honestly. Wall huge contract, Beall huge contract... not sure they are willing to lock in all three. It would be a big commitment for any team.
If I'm Porter, I'm looking at the West and thinking that's where I need to be. If Vlade (and Joerger) can sell him on the future of our team and the vision, I think we have a chance. He is exactly that piece we need. When the fit is right on both sides, that's good.
If I'm Porter, I'm looking at the West and thinking that's where I need to be. If Vlade (and Joerger) can sell him on the future of our team and the vision, I think we have a chance. He is exactly that piece we need. When the fit is right on both sides, that's good.
If you read what i wrote, then you know that only way Im talking about sixers as an example is that they were smart when they got Convington and McConnel for great contracts.
My number one thing is flexibility. Team need to stay flexible until they really can start putting together a winning group. Kings are not in a position to put together a winning group. They need a top level talent. But one of the perks for having a young roster like Kings is that they will most likely have one of the best chances to get a grat draft pick. And if you have a great draft pick, you have a great chance to get a great player. Its all about the odds. What gives you the best chance to be succesfull. Last thing the Kings should do is ruin those odds just to sing a veteran who will be past his prime when Kings could have a chance to be good.
My number one thing is flexibility. Team need to stay flexible until they really can start putting together a winning group. Kings are not in a position to put together a winning group. They need a top level talent. But one of the perks for having a young roster like Kings is that they will most likely have one of the best chances to get a grat draft pick. And if you have a great draft pick, you have a great chance to get a great player. Its all about the odds. What gives you the best chance to be succesfull. Last thing the Kings should do is ruin those odds just to sing a veteran who will be past his prime when Kings could have a chance to be good.
I dont know where this assumption comes from that getting a big role would be damaging but young players want as many minutes and as many touches as possible. Especially players like Fox and he is reportedly great mentally so it wont do us any good to have anyone take minutes from him or Mason. Mason especially will be Nba ready. And this year is a great opportunity to see what we have. Is Malachi anything else than spot up shooter? Can he come of screens, can he put ball to the floor? Can Skal stay on the floor without fouling out? Can he shoot 3pointers in a game situation? Can he attack switches on the post or exploit slowet big men off the dribble? Can Justin Jackson be something else than spot up shooter? Ect. The more reps theese young guys get, the more they develope. If your only job is stand in the corner and either pass or shoot for 15min, you wont reach your ceiling, at least not nearly as quickly. Kids get reps trying to expand their skillsets against real competition. Only a mentally weak player cant take that and those players most likely wont succeed in a league either way. Plus we have lots of young guys and a few vets so there are plenty of guys who to give the reps
I'm fairly certain Dave Joerger would dismiss this. You pretty much summed it up in the first sentence. Players want as many reps as they can get. Joerger wants them to earn it and he wants them to earn it in short bursts of meaningful minutes in the beginning. Kind of means we need to sign some legitimate guys who can actually play. Again, the goal should be getting Fox some actual help.
Staggeringly inaccurate. The more capable teammates you have around you the easier it is to experience collective success. As a rookie or a second year player with teammates who have been there and done that (Otto, Iggy, etc) this means you are less likely to be asked to do something outside of your current skill set. You are not required to play extended minutes while being overmatched because there are no better options. You are not set up to fail. You are not asked to carry the offense because there are no experienced teammates to share scoring burden draw doubles and help run efficient play sets.
You are not left on the floor when you are 1 for 7 FGs because instead of having a competent veteran to sub in you have a D-League just as wet behind the ears. It is simple. You want to be around guys who can accelerate your learning curve. You want to go to battle with fighters who have been in the trenches. This allows the relative newbie to assume more responsibility as the coach deems him ready, as the player capitalizes on opportunity given to him and shows he is capable of more. The leash is extended based on merit not necessity. This is why 76ers went out and signed Amir and JJ Reddick. Great signings! Fultz and Simmons couldn't even win in college.
The hype surrounding those two may prove justified or not. When I saw Embiid play the first time I knew that guy was the real deal. He was amazing securing deep low post position and challenging shots far better than Boogie ever did. I thought Simmons was mostly bad in Summer League last year after terrible finish to his college career. He won't even play summer league this year. Sad! As far as Fultz goes, his play could not rally his teammates to more than 8 wins, nor gain the trust of a pretty good GM (Danny Ainge). For his sake, I hope his force and will on the court is stronger than his personality. Unlike our man De'Aaron Fox, Fultz has NO natural leadership skills. Bringing in vets Reddick and Amir are EXACTLY what Fultz and Simmons need. Our front office needs to take the lead from what the 76er did today.
You are not left on the floor when you are 1 for 7 FGs because instead of having a competent veteran to sub in you have a D-League just as wet behind the ears. It is simple. You want to be around guys who can accelerate your learning curve. You want to go to battle with fighters who have been in the trenches. This allows the relative newbie to assume more responsibility as the coach deems him ready, as the player capitalizes on opportunity given to him and shows he is capable of more. The leash is extended based on merit not necessity. This is why 76ers went out and signed Amir and JJ Reddick. Great signings! Fultz and Simmons couldn't even win in college.
The hype surrounding those two may prove justified or not. When I saw Embiid play the first time I knew that guy was the real deal. He was amazing securing deep low post position and challenging shots far better than Boogie ever did. I thought Simmons was mostly bad in Summer League last year after terrible finish to his college career. He won't even play summer league this year. Sad! As far as Fultz goes, his play could not rally his teammates to more than 8 wins, nor gain the trust of a pretty good GM (Danny Ainge). For his sake, I hope his force and will on the court is stronger than his personality. Unlike our man De'Aaron Fox, Fultz has NO natural leadership skills. Bringing in vets Reddick and Amir are EXACTLY what Fultz and Simmons need. Our front office needs to take the lead from what the 76er did today.
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Do you feel like Porter is going to develop into a #1 option or just continue to be a high level role player? Giving max money to a high level 3&D guy is kind of scary but I haven't paid a ton of attention to his game so I don't know if he's a guy who just needs the ball in his hands a little more to put up even bigger numbers. Wall and Beal dominate the ball so it's hard to tell what else Porter has up his sleeve.
You're missing the point or maybe I just wasn't as clear as I could have been.
Porter (if he's worth max) would be a great pickup for us. Fits our team perfectly and is only 24 so he's right there in the same age range as our core. If you can pick up Porter and it causes us to go from picking 5th in next years draft to 9th...then you do it. He should be well worth it as a player. To me it's like trading 5 for Porter and 9...which I would do in a heartbeat.
What the Kings shouldn't do is pick up Gallinari/Iggy and lets just say Milsap on fat contracts because the latter two are old and the former just isn't as effective as a player as his paycheck is going to lead you to believe. Iggy and Milsap will be about done by time our core starts gearing up to make some sort of a run. We will end up picking about 12th in next years draft and then in a couple years they will more than likely either be gone or blocking us from being able to sign Otto Porter type free agents that would really work well with this team for years to come. So we may well end up with a 12 pick, a possible push for the 8th seed and Warriors sweep in a couple years and then who knows what happens after that. We might have to unload them in a bad trade to try and get someone or free up cap space so we aren't handcuffed in the future when the core is in their prime. I just don't see anything good coming out of signing those guys on this team at this point in time.
We seem to be thinking along the same lines here but I think PJ Tucker and PPat would possibly be about the best FA signings if they are dead set on signing vets. Neither should command a ton of money and will more than likely take shorter contracts and/or buyouts like the Tolliver deal. Plus neither should take a ton of time away from the kids. So once the kids are developed and ready to go, those guys should be off the books and we can be right in line to sign some real free agents that are actually going to contribute toward wins and playoff runs.
You're missing the point or maybe I just wasn't as clear as I could have been.
Porter (if he's worth max) would be a great pickup for us. Fits our team perfectly and is only 24 so he's right there in the same age range as our core. If you can pick up Porter and it causes us to go from picking 5th in next years draft to 9th...then you do it. He should be well worth it as a player. To me it's like trading 5 for Porter and 9...which I would do in a heartbeat.
What the Kings shouldn't do is pick up Gallinari/Iggy and lets just say Milsap on fat contracts because the latter two are old and the former just isn't as effective as a player as his paycheck is going to lead you to believe. Iggy and Milsap will be about done by time our core starts gearing up to make some sort of a run. We will end up picking about 12th in next years draft and then in a couple years they will more than likely either be gone or blocking us from being able to sign Otto Porter type free agents that would really work well with this team for years to come. So we may well end up with a 12 pick, a possible push for the 8th seed and Warriors sweep in a couple years and then who knows what happens after that. We might have to unload them in a bad trade to try and get someone or free up cap space so we aren't handcuffed in the future when the core is in their prime. I just don't see anything good coming out of signing those guys on this team at this point in time.
We seem to be thinking along the same lines here but I think PJ Tucker and PPat would possibly be about the best FA signings if they are dead set on signing vets. Neither should command a ton of money and will more than likely take shorter contracts and/or buyouts like the Tolliver deal. Plus neither should take a ton of time away from the kids. So once the kids are developed and ready to go, those guys should be off the books and we can be right in line to sign some real free agents that are actually going to contribute toward wins and playoff runs.
Porter is the only free agent who fits as a "keeper" and will continue to get much better and will deserve the max money. He will become the first "star" with Fox and Skal to potentially become numbers 2 and 3. Don't pay big money and more than 2 year contracts for a PG or a PF to mentor our young'uns. The mentors will play (provide competition in both practice and games) yet still allowing the young'uns to come along at their own pace without getting discouraged through failure.
The future is bright, but the FO has to do their job right. GO KINGS
The future is bright, but the FO has to do their job right. GO KINGS
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My read on the whole Wizards and Porter situation is that with Beal and Wall's new offer (if he accepts) they are reluctant to come straight out and offer the max. So they are hoping to sign him for less than that but are putting out the "we will match any offer" line. If that is true why don't you just offer him an equivalent of what max onctract other teams can offer him and get it over and done with?
I think when push comes to shove, they will match but reluctantly. However, if I was the Kings, I would put that max offer to him and put Washington into an uncomfortable situation.
Now Porter is certainly not a superstar in the making but he is one of thise high level, border line all star glue guys who are worth a lot to their team. He can shoot the 3 at a geat clip and that will be a good fit with Fox going forward. He also has great length and he defends at a high level.
I think when push comes to shove, they will match but reluctantly. However, if I was the Kings, I would put that max offer to him and put Washington into an uncomfortable situation.
Now Porter is certainly not a superstar in the making but he is one of thise high level, border line all star glue guys who are worth a lot to their team. He can shoot the 3 at a geat clip and that will be a good fit with Fox going forward. He also has great length and he defends at a high level.
Well, if there is a crack in that relationship (following meeting that did not result in an agreement) we may as try to create a wider wedge. The Wizards are probably just protecting their best interests and future flexibility to extent they'll have any. They don't have viable options besides matching. I don't know what the Kings could do to dissuade the Wizards from matching besides max offer, which probably isn't enough. You could include a player option in the 3rd year and trade kicker and no-trade clause..... anything in addition to maximum dollars that works against signing team. If Kings have designs on stealing Otto, then they design offer sheet per David Falk's mandate. And that's still probably not enough.
One problem too, we don't even know if Porter and his agent have agreed to take a meeting with us....or if we asked for one! Well, Paul George ended up on the Thunder beyond anyone's premonition. What's the shoe slogan: Impossible is nothing.
One problem too, we don't even know if Porter and his agent have agreed to take a meeting with us....or if we asked for one! Well, Paul George ended up on the Thunder beyond anyone's premonition. What's the shoe slogan: Impossible is nothing.
Good deal for both parties there. Was hoping that Ingles signed with us but it. Sounds like we are looking for vets slightly above that level.
Millsap and Gallinari scare me. Gallo is OK in terms of age but is injury prone and he is showing signs of slowing down. Is he able to play SF for the duration of the deal? Will that deal be moveable down the track without having to attach assets to move it?
Millsap is just too old and takes away too many minutes from youngsters.
Millsap and Gallinari scare me. Gallo is OK in terms of age but is injury prone and he is showing signs of slowing down. Is he able to play SF for the duration of the deal? Will that deal be moveable down the track without having to attach assets to move it?
Millsap is just too old and takes away too many minutes from youngsters.
I don't understand your position here. How many young players do you want exactly? They've got 5 rookies, 4 players from the previous draft, and 1 from 2015. That's plenty for a rebuild. Now they've got to start a winning culture and you don't win with a roster of 1st and 2nd year players.
The Kings should be done with playing for lottery position. It's should be about winning games and developing a winning mentality. Adding some proven, good character vets goes a long way toward doing that. As the young kids develop and earn more PT, the hope is the wins continue to rise.
The Kings should be done with playing for lottery position. It's should be about winning games and developing a winning mentality. Adding some proven, good character vets goes a long way toward doing that. As the young kids develop and earn more PT, the hope is the wins continue to rise.
Look just because there are 10 young players on the roster it doesn't mean that you have rebuilt the team. For a rebuild to be successful you need to end ul with 2 or 3 franchise level guys and some good young talent. Of course there are varying levels of success but for me it needs to be a genuine championship contender.
We don't even know what we have in 10 youngsters. We are hoping that Fox is one of those guys but we really don't know and won't know for at least a season.
Having said that, these kids need mentors. Good veterans that will show them the way and help develop them into best players they possibly could be. I want the team to play hard and try to win every game, regardless of who is on the floor or the impact it will have on the draft pick. Sometimes basketball "gods" look after you if you do the right thing. Kings played hard in the last 25 games last season despite not being very good and still jumped into top 3. It can happen again next season. Who knows! But these youngstrs need veteran leaders around them to succeed in the long term.
We don't even know what we have in 10 youngsters. We are hoping that Fox is one of those guys but we really don't know and won't know for at least a season.
Having said that, these kids need mentors. Good veterans that will show them the way and help develop them into best players they possibly could be. I want the team to play hard and try to win every game, regardless of who is on the floor or the impact it will have on the draft pick. Sometimes basketball "gods" look after you if you do the right thing. Kings played hard in the last 25 games last season despite not being very good and still jumped into top 3. It can happen again next season. Who knows! But these youngstrs need veteran leaders around them to succeed in the long term.
If he's a border line all star glue guy, he may be worth a lot, but is not worth the max.
I understand our need, and Porter's fit. However, we've suffered a lot as a fan base to get to this position of hope for the future. We should not screw it up by giving max money to a border line all star. That kind of money should be given to all NBA guys and MVP/DPOY candidates.
I don't know what's the right move or number for Porter, but you shouldn't give max money to border line all stars. There's a reason Wizards are not doing it already.
I know the contracts some folks are getting make things look absurd. E.g, we all were pretty sure that Galloway will opt in, since he won't get such a sweet deal anywhere else. There's a silver lining though. In a few months, some of these teams will be suffering from buyer's remorse, and will want to shed some salary. You know what I'm driving at.
So, what action should we take? I don't know. I do agree that we need to get some SF, but don't want to hand out a long term deal. As to who should be that guy, and at what price, hell, if I had any clue, I would be asking Vivek to hire me for some big bucks.
I understand our need, and Porter's fit. However, we've suffered a lot as a fan base to get to this position of hope for the future. We should not screw it up by giving max money to a border line all star. That kind of money should be given to all NBA guys and MVP/DPOY candidates.
I don't know what's the right move or number for Porter, but you shouldn't give max money to border line all stars. There's a reason Wizards are not doing it already.
I know the contracts some folks are getting make things look absurd. E.g, we all were pretty sure that Galloway will opt in, since he won't get such a sweet deal anywhere else. There's a silver lining though. In a few months, some of these teams will be suffering from buyer's remorse, and will want to shed some salary. You know what I'm driving at.
So, what action should we take? I don't know. I do agree that we need to get some SF, but don't want to hand out a long term deal. As to who should be that guy, and at what price, hell, if I had any clue, I would be asking Vivek to hire me for some big bucks.
Look around the NBA! Harrison Barnes gets a Max. Bradley Beal gets a max. Allan Crabbe get $20m per season. Max for Porter is not the same as Max for Curry. His max over 4 years is about $25m per season. In time that will be a reasonable contract. Just as you have bargains now on deals signed 3-4 years ago.
Porter is still only 24 and has development left in his game. He was a border line all star last season. He would be a very good get for us and can grow with the team. You ae not going to get the type of player you are talking about to Sacramento EVER. Its a life of a small market franchise, they have to pay moe to attract players. That will never change unless you turn into a contender and you get bandwagoners jumping on for a chance at a ring.
Porter is still only 24 and has development left in his game. He was a border line all star last season. He would be a very good get for us and can grow with the team. You ae not going to get the type of player you are talking about to Sacramento EVER. Its a life of a small market franchise, they have to pay moe to attract players. That will never change unless you turn into a contender and you get bandwagoners jumping on for a chance at a ring.
Someone suggested a trade several days ago with the Raptors sending the Kings Carroll and Joseph along with a 2019 first to clear space. That certainly would work for me--gives the Kings short term, quality vets at positions of need, as well as a long-term asset for the trouble. Not sure how desperate the Raptors are for cap space, though.