Roland Beech gone - Luke Bornn hired

bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#35
#35
Here's a quote from an interview with James Hamm, who caught up with him after the hire..

"It’s not about me coming in and saying, ‘Here is how to think about the game and here’s the magic numbers,’” Bornn said. “It’s really about me going to them and saying, ‘How do you think about the game, what is it that you care about, is there questions you want answered and can I help you with that?’”

The plan is for Bornn and his team to build a database of sorts that is accessible to players, coaches and the front office that relies heavily on video to show information, instead of just numbers on a page. They will have your conventional statistics, but an array of other options as well specifically created for the team.

“My role with the Kings will be all encompassing,” Bornn said. “It’s player evaluation, opponent scouting, it’s performance - with the sports science group there. We’ll be looking at all aspects, from the basics of stats, all the way to the more advanced metrics.”
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#37
#37
gunks said:
I dunno what's more depressing;

That a lot of fans here are conditioned to expect the worst...

.... or that the fears of said pessimists are so often made reality by this dippy franchise.

Anyways.... Another summer, another front office purge, courtesy of the lil goblin! (Or Beech coming to his senses and jumping ship)

Go Kangz!
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Now that Bornn has been hired, are you less depressed? Looks like a clear upgrade to me. :)
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#38
#38
Luke Bornn is a great hire. The work he's been doing the last few years is the future of statistical analysis in basketball. And we really need to do something to find a competitive edge with our continued inability to draw marquee free agents.
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#40
#40
LPKingsFan said:
Well, they've found their replacement: http://www.nba.com/kings/news/luke-bornn-named-vp-strategy-analytics

I actually like a lot of what I hear. He seems to be on the forefront of some of the key issues: http://www.csnbayarea.com/kings/kings-add-new-stat-guru-luke-bornn-front-office
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Wow - this guy is really impressive. Not a good fit for a team that doesn't value analytics, though. Maybe just anopther example of an inept front office without a plan that they can stick to for many years?
 
VF21

VF21

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SME
#43
#43
jcassio said:
Wow - this guy is really impressive. Not a good fit for a team that doesn't value analytics, though. Maybe just anopther example of an inept front office without a plan that they can stick to for many years?
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My first tweet to Bornn was 'Welcome to Sacramento and the most neurotic group of fans you'll ever meet." Maybe, just maybe, Vlade hired him because it's part of his plan? I know it's tough for Kings fans to consider, but things just might be heading in the right direction.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#45
#45
VF21 said:
My first tweet to Bornn was 'Welcome to Sacramento and the most neurotic group of fans you'll ever meet." Maybe, just maybe, Vlade hired him because it's part of his plan? I know it's tough for Kings fans to consider, but things just might be heading in the right direction.
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They guy is used to the fans of AS Roma. SAC fans are basically a cakewalk when compared to the italian Ultras. In SAC people might be disappointed with the overall result of the past decade, but in Rome the Ultras boycotted several games completely resulting in an empty curva sud in the arena. There is an ongoing conflict between the US american owner James Pallotta and the police on one side and the Ultras on the other side. And Roma Ultras were involved in several serious incidents in the past like the shooting of a fan of the SSC Napoli in 2014, in several antisemitic incidents and part of the fans worships Benito Mussolini.
So while I doubt that an analytics guy has a lot of contact to the fans, I would say, that Bornn won't feel too intimidated by the SAC fans. ;)

The articles about Bornn are a good read. If he is an upgrade over Beech is pretty much impossible to determine for me (and I assume it's difficult for everyone on this board but whatever). It's nonetheless a good sign, that the Kings don't move forward without an analytics department.
 
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Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#47
#47
The PR blurb's techno jargon (e.g. "data engineering and collection", "data infrastructure") is hard to stomach. I'd really like to know the concrete questions that the Kings org is going to pose to this guy to help them in the "strategy" part of their business. As they say in techo-land, what are the "deliverables?" Would this "data infrastructure" be able to determine convincingly that trading Cousins a year ago would or would not yield more value than a couple of months ago? If so, then hurrah hurrah, I'm sold: Maybe HAL will be the one to finally tell Vivek how to run this organization properly. But if it tells one what one already believes, then it's essentially a mirror of one's own beliefs, and confirmation bias rears its ugly head.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#48
#48
Kingster said:
The PR blurb's techno jargon (e.g. "data engineering and collection", "data infrastructure") is hard to stomach. I'd really like to know the concrete questions that the Kings org is going to pose to this guy to help them in the "strategy" part of their business. As they say in techo-land, what are the "deliverables?" Would this "data infrastructure" be able to determine convincingly that trading Cousins a year ago would or would not yield more value than a couple of months ago? If so, then hurrah hurrah, I'm sold: Maybe HAL will be the one to finally tell Vivek how to run this organization properly. But if it tells one what one already believes, then it's essentially a mirror of one's own beliefs, and confirmation bias rears its ugly head.
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Maybe you could give him more than 3 seconds in the job before you get too distressed about answers to "concrete questions."
 
VF21

VF21

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SME
#49
#49
KingsFanGER said:
They guy is used to the fans of AS Roma. SAC fans are basically a cakewalk when compared to the italian Ultras. In SAC people might be disappointed with the overall result of the past decade, but in Rome the Ultras boycotted several games completely resulting in an empty curva sud in the arena. There is an ongoing conflict between the US american owner James Pallotta and the police on one side and the Ultras on the other side. And Roma Ultras were involved in several serious incidents in the past like the shooting of a fan of the SSC Napoli in 2014, in several antisemitic incidents and part of the fans worships Benito Mussolini.
So while I doubt that an analytics guy has a lot of contact to the fans, I would say, that Bornn won't feel too intimidated by the SAC fans. ;)

The articles about Bornn are a good read. If he is an upgrade over Beech is pretty much impossible to determine for me (and I assume it's difficult for everyone on this board but whatever). It's nonetheless a good sign, that the Kings don't move forward without an analytics department.
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I didn't mean the fans in the stands. I meant the fans who post on message boards and microanalyze every little thing that happens.

I don't know why you assume it's difficult to determine if this is an upgrade. I think it is ... and I think it's part of a PLAN that's starting to come together. (The hiring of Scott Perry is also IMHO a part of the same plan/vision/whatever.)
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#50
#50
Kingster said:
The PR blurb's techno jargon (e.g. "data engineering and collection", "data infrastructure") is hard to stomach. I'd really like to know the concrete questions that the Kings org is going to pose to this guy to help them in the "strategy" part of their business. As they say in techo-land, what are the "deliverables?" Would this "data infrastructure" be able to determine convincingly that trading Cousins a year ago would or would not yield more value than a couple of months ago? If so, then hurrah hurrah, I'm sold: Maybe HAL will be the one to finally tell Vivek how to run this organization properly. But if it tells one what one already believes, then it's essentially a mirror of one's own beliefs, and confirmation bias rears its ugly head.
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Well, I like his statement. He said he's not there to tell them what to think, but to help them. What do they need? Can he answer any questions for them. The article I posted was fairly informative. Wanting to set up a system of not only facts/numbers on paper, but also video that's accessible to not only management and scouting, but to the players, trainers etc. Apparently it's a system that's currently used by the Spurs. Seems to have worked fairly well for them. Analytics isn't just about how many times a player bounces a basketball, but what is the players history of injury in relationship to minutes played.

Basketball players, like poker players have shows. Sometimes analytics can find those and break them down. Does Chris Paul twitch his left eye right before he goes left with the ball? Yeah, that's an exaggeration, but there are tell tale signs that players give off that can be helpful when trying to defend those players. Anyway, there are many uses for analytics. They can be extremely helpful if used properly.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#51
#51
VF21 said:
I didn't mean the fans in the stands. I meant the fans who post on message boards and microanalyze every little thing that happens.

I don't know why you assume it's difficult to determine if this is an upgrade. I think it is ... and I think it's part of a PLAN that's starting to come together. (The hiring of Scott Perry is also IMHO a part of the same plan/vision/whatever.)
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Sometimes I wonder is some of the people here want the team to fail, just so they can gloat about being right. On one hand, they criticize the Kings for having a front office that's understaffed. They criticize the Kings because their analytic's guy is leaving. They don't know why, but that doesn't matter. It's the Kings right? So it has to be bad. Maybe he left because he had a better or bigger offer. Maybe he left because mutually, he wasn't what the team was looking for in an analytic's guy. Maybe he left because the had already found someone that they thought better fit what they were trying to do. Or, maybe he just bumped heads with Vlade. We don't know.

What I do know, is that having owned my own business, I went through a lot of employees over the years. Sometimes because I didn't think they were earning their money, but more often, because they ended up getting more money somewhere else. So here we are now with the Kings hiring his replacement, and of course we have to be critical of that as well. No one ever accomplished anything by being negative. There is a very fine line between being critical, and being negative. One is constructive, while the other is destructive.

I always remember the famous quote from the movie Aliens, when one of the soldiers yelled out, "Games over man, we're all going to die man." Last thing you want to hear in that situation.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#52
#52
bajaden said:
Sometimes I wonder is some of the people here want the team to fail, just so they can gloat about being right. On one hand, they criticize the Kings for having a front office that's understaffed. They criticize the Kings because their analytic's guy is leaving. They don't know why, but that doesn't matter. It's the Kings right? So it has to be bad. Maybe he left because he had a better or bigger offer. Maybe he left because mutually, he wasn't what the team was looking for in an analytic's guy. Maybe he left because the had already found someone that they thought better fit what they were trying to do. Or, maybe he just bumped heads with Vlade. We don't know.

What I do know, is that having owned my own business, I went through a lot of employees over the years. Sometimes because I didn't think they were earning their money, but more often, because they ended up getting more money somewhere else. So here we are now with the Kings hiring his replacement, and of course we have to be critical of that as well. No one ever accomplished anything by being negative. There is a very fine line between being critical, and being negative. One is constructive, while the other is destructive.

I always remember the famous quote from the movie Aliens, when one of the soldiers yelled out, "Games over man, we're all going to die man." Last thing you want to hear in that situation.
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Agreed. I may not have agreed with Vlade at the time of the trade, but I see a vision coming together. It's something Kings fans have cried for and may now actually be getting. There just may be method in his madness...and I'm really starting to get excited about the future of our Kings.
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#54
#54
VF21 said:
I didn't mean the fans in the stands. I meant the fans who post on message boards and microanalyze every little thing that happens.

I don't know why you assume it's difficult to determine if this is an upgrade. I think it is ... and I think it's part of a PLAN that's starting to come together. (The hiring of Scott Perry is also IMHO a part of the same plan/vision/whatever.)
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Well and how excactly do you determine if he is an upgrade?
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#55
#55
KingsFanGER said:
Well and how excactly do you determine if he is an upgrade?
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Compare resumes, for one thing. Listen to the experts who are pretty much all united about this being an excellent hire. I took exception to your comment that just because you couldn't determine if it was an upgrade you assumed that no one else could/would do so either.

I'm not gonna belabor the point. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that you are one of those "glass half empty" people and I shouldn't try to change you. :)
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#56
#56
VF21 said:
Compare resumes, for one thing. Listen to the experts who are pretty much all united about this being an excellent hire. I took exception to your comment that just because you couldn't determine if it was an upgrade you assumed that no one else could/would do so either.

I'm not gonna belabor the point. I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that you are one of those "glass half empty" people and I shouldn't try to change you. :)
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Ok we'll leave it at that Madame Happy-go-lucky ;)
It's close to midnight in Hamburg and I'm too tired to try to drag you onto the dark side. Good night folks!
 
RichieInRocklin

RichieInRocklin

G-League
#59
#59
bajaden said:
Here's a quote from an interview with James Hamm, who caught up with him after the hire..



The plan is for Bornn and his team to build a database of sorts that is accessible to players, coaches and the front office that relies heavily on video to show information, instead of just numbers on a page. They will have your conventional statistics, but an array of other options as well specifically created for the team.

“My role with the Kings will be all encompassing,” Bornn said. “It’s player evaluation, opponent scouting, it’s performance - with the sports science group there. We’ll be looking at all aspects, from the basics of stats, all the way to the more advanced metrics.”
Click to expand...

To emphasize what Bajaden said above, putting the analytics on video is much more advanced (once again the eye test), especially for defensive measurements. After reading his Qualifications, I'm sure he'll be very good and very helpful.
 
Suicide King

Suicide King

Starter
#60
#60
@bajaden
Agree he was a great actor. R.I.P Bill Paxton.

Back to the Kings. I can be a pretty negative person. I just really don't like to be. Never ends well for me. I don't consider myself a blind optimst, but I will try a look for the positives in things which are easily obscured by the negatives.

I really like the moves we have been making lately. It gives the impression that a clear path forward was there amidst the decision to blow things up. National media singing our praises for once is a welcome respite I will enjoy until the next rainstorm. Weather always changes, you just want to build the best shelter you can.
 
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