Who do we draft?

[funkykingston]

@HdsmCelt

That is whats been bugging me. If you could only guarantee either one of the top PGs or SFs at 8, which do you choose?

Is a PG more important going forward (my take) or a SF?

In a vacuum? PG.

But what matters is the actual players available.

Right now my draft board for the Kings looks like this:

1. Fultz
2. Jackson
3. Ball
4. Fox
5. Tatum
6. Isaac
7. Ntilikina
8. Smith Jr
9. Monk

If Fox falls to 8 I'd grab him. If he's not there but Tatum or Isaac is then I think you take them. You could take DSJ or Ntilikina thinking that Dallas wouldn't take a SF but that's a dangerous gamble.

I think you have to stay true to your board and not reach based on need.

My ideal scenario would be Fox at 8 and Isaac at 10 but Isaac at 8 and either Ntilikina or Smith Jr at 10 would be fine with me.

 

[Suicide King]

I hesitated to ask the question for the exact reason you mentioned @funkykingston. It wont happen in a bubble and it very much depends on who is available. The Magic just fired their GM (with good reason), but anything could happen. Anthony Bennet at 1 for example. I hope lady luck is on our side for this draft and we dont have to "settle" for either or. Would be a nice change of fortune for us.

 

[bajaden]

I think definitely the PG. Going forward, the NBA is a PG's league now. I don't think you can compete at a high level without a good PG.
Playoff teams with elite PGs:
Thunder (Westbrook)
Warriors (Curry)
Rockets (Harden)
Playoff teams with great PGs:
Clippers (CP3)
Raptors(Lowry)
Wizards (Wall)
Celtics(IT)
Playoff teams with good PGs:
Cavaliers(Kyrie)
Blazers (Lillard)
Grizzlies (Conley)
Playoff teams with solid PGs:
Jazz (Hill)
Hawks (Schroder)
Pacers (Teague)
Playoff teams without good PGs:
Spurs
Bulls
Bucks

It just shows how important a good PG is in today's game. So if it came down to a very good SF vs a very good PG, you take the PG and don't look back.

I think the question was, at least in my mind at the time was, if I had to choose between Ntilikina and Isaac, who would I take? Because I think the only PG that would be available when were picking is likely to Ntilikina. Now if my choice is between Isaac and Ball or Fox, then that's a different question. If my choice is between Isaac and Smith, then I think I'm taking Isaac. I'm sure others would disagree.

Jeff Teague is an unrestricted free agent this summer, so he is someone we could pursue.

 

[ockingsfan]

SF Miles Bridges staying in school.

http://www.startribune.com/michigan-state-s-miles-bridges-chooses-to-stay-in-school/419433174/

 

[funkykingston]

I think the question was, at least in my mind at the time was, if I had to choose between Ntilikina and Isaac, who would I take? Because I think the only PG that would be available when were picking is likely to Ntilikina. Now if my choice is between Isaac and Ball or Fox, then that's a different question. If my choice is between Isaac and Smith, then I think I'm taking Isaac. I'm sure others would disagree.

Jeff Teague is an unrestricted free agent this summer, so he is someone we could pursue.

I can squint and see a scenario where Fox drops to #8.

My Tankathon for today has:

Suns
Lakers
Celtics
Sixers
Magic
Knicks
T'Wolves
Kings
Mavericks
Kings

Fultz, Ball and Jackson go top 3

Philly takes Monk to open up the floor for Embiid and Simmons. Defensively he plays PG but on offense Simmons runs the show and Malik is allowed to just be a scorer.

The Magic consider Fox but they already drafted a PG who can't shoot and don't want to do it again. Ditto for Minny. Orlando takes Tatum.

The best fit for the triangle and alongside Zinger looks to be Ntilikina.

It hurts Thibs to take a poor defender but he can't add Fox to an already terrible shooting team and so he considers Smith Jr (too ball dominant and an iffy defender) and Isaac (a ways away from being able to play PF in the NBA) and takes Markkanen

That leaves Fox for the Kings.

The Mavs see Isaac as too similar to Barnes and they like Smith's star potential.

Which leaves Isaac for the Kings at 10.

At least that's the way I'd love to see things play out.

 

[biltalent]

I can squint and see a scenario where Fox drops to #8.

My Tankathon for today has:

Suns
Lakers
Celtics
Sixers
Magic
Knicks
T'Wolves
Kings
Mavericks
Kings

Fultz, Ball and Jackson go top 3

Philly takes Monk to open up the floor for Embiid and Simmons. Defensively he plays PG but on offense Simmons runs the show and Malik is allowed to just be a scorer.

The Magic consider Fox but they already drafted a PG who can't shoot and don't want to do it again. Ditto for Minny. Orlando takes Tatum.

The best fit for the triangle and alongside Zinger looks to be Ntilikina.

It hurts Thibs to take a poor defender but he can't add Fox to an already terrible shooting team and so he considers Smith Jr (too ball dominant and an iffy defender) and Isaac (a ways away from being able to play PF in the NBA) and takes Markkanen

That leaves Fox for the Kings.

The Mavs see Isaac as too similar to Barnes and they like Smith's star potential.

Which leaves Isaac for the Kings at 10.

At least that's the way I'd love to see things play out.

Considering my personal big board, this would be an absolute home run draft. We'd get a guy I have as top 5 value (Fox) at 8 and a top 5-8 value at 10. Plus, we would also have an really valuable secound round pick to use. A future core of Fox-Hield-Isaac-Skal-Wcs + Bogdan, Richardson and PapaG? Plus a high secounder AND an 2018 pick to upgrade? Oh boy

 

[kingdivac]

I think it just depends on the circumstances. Jordan was as hard on his teammates as any player but he won championships so there's nothing you can say about that. Westbrook is amazing but when you look at stats like the fact that when he's on defense, he's challenged less 3 pointers than Whiteside. That tells you that he's leaving his man to go rebound hunting. Harden is a stat padder as well. These guys aren't rebounding beasts, they're leaving their assignments to go pile up statistics. In the end, the players like Leonard, James, Draymond etc will win out because they follow through on their assignments before chasing numbers.

Our problem with Cousins is basically everything you listed above. We never built a good enough roster around him and we drafted horribly. On top of that, Cousins wasted a lot of plays by not getting back on defense and not hustling when he got frustrated. If he scored 26, it was probably more like 20 due to the wasted possessions. With the games as close as they are, you simply cannot throw possessions away, especially as a bottom tier team. Not building/drafting a good roster and your star player not being as efficient as he should be is basically why we are where we are. We could have made the playoffs this year or maybe last year if Cousins was as efficient as a star player should be. Conversely, we could have made the playoffs multiple times if the F.O. didn't whiff on nearly every pick as all stars and possible hall of famers got picked after our guys.

Indeed, efficiency is paramount, and it is the definition of high shooting percentages in basketball.

 

[kingdivac]

Had the Kings been getting to the playoffs every year, I doubt if DMC would have had as many attitude issues.

That seems like conjecture.... it might be true but I'd tend to think differently....a players antics are infused with his personality. Rasheed Wallace was getting technicals on winning teams regardless....

 

[kingdivac]

Draft boards are all over the place right now. Some have every PG gone by the 8th pick, others have Fox and Frank Nt.... available at 8 and 10. Really, the top 3-4 is about all that seems set.

I really could see Monk dropping hard or going 5th or 6th. He is sooooooooooo unguardable when he is hot but he has no real unquenchable fire like Kobe (yuck) or Jordan and nothing but hitting his shots gets him motivated. He is the ultimate pearl or poop player. I could see him dropping 40 one night on 22 shots or going 2-22 the next night.
The difficulty is if he finds that spark that gets him hot every night in the NBA, GM's will cringe if they passed him up. That is why he is the kind of player I could see going high or completely free falling, kind of like Skal and Aaron Rogers did.

Monk is basically a young Jamal Crawford....looks good for instant offense, but not a complete player I think.

 

[kingdivac]

Getting fleeced in the 76ers trade. Getting fleeced in the Cousins trade. Handling of cousins trade. Trading cousins but keeping every other vet ensuring that we are too good to tank. Drafting papa 13th.

Skal is the only good thing vlade has done. Love the guy, but he has been a horrid gm.

I thought Papa was a terrible pick early on especially because they refused to play him....but now am not as angry, but yes, the Cousins trade was less than Satisfactory - should never have allowed a protected 3 to start, and I think they should've got a future #1 as well.

 

[kingdivac]

In a vacuum? PG.

But what matters is the actual players available.

Right now my draft board for the Kings looks like this:

1. Fultz
2. Jackson
3. Ball
4. Fox
5. Tatum
6. Isaac
7. Ntilikina
8. Smith Jr
9. Monk

If Fox falls to 8 I'd grab him. If he's not there but Tatum or Isaac is then I think you take them. You could take DSJ or Ntilikina thinking that Dallas wouldn't take a SF but that's a dangerous gamble.

I think you have to stay true to your board and not reach based on need.

My ideal scenario would be Fox at 8 and Isaac at 10 but Isaac at 8 and either Ntilikina or Smith Jr at 10 would be fine with me.

Dont particularly like what I saw from Tatum - Jack of all trades, master of none.....I could be wrong but anyway.

 

[kingdivac]

How about trading 1 pick down for a PG later in the draft and a bonus player with Issac ? Or heck, how about getting 16, 18, 23, and 26? A full trade down...Bridges leaving the draft is too bad....

Aside from the draft, I think the Kings should resign Lawson mid-level for sure too....he earned it.

 

[kingdivac]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702772-2017-nba-mock-draft-post-regular-season-edition

I would be very pleased with this outcome of Smith Jr and Issac - very pleased! Even Ntilitina instead of Smith Jr would be ok too....think they already have their 3 pt shooter in Hield, so Markennen may not be needed. Resign Lawson. Buy-out Galloway. Possibly resign Collison if cheaply? Need to sign Collison or Lawson. I like Lawson at least.

12-deep lineup:

Smith Jr/Collison/Lawson
Hield/Temple/Richardson/
Issac/Tolliver/
WCS/Skal
Koufos/PapaG

Additional Roster/Not Suiting up: Gay depending on injury, McClemore plus 2nd round pick. I dont know the rules....how many players can be on the team - 15?

I'd say start the rookies too!
The beauty of the above team is Joerger really can spread the hell out of the minutes. Look for the scoring to come from the back-court more like contemporary NBA. May not make the playoffs....but hell, an intriguing mix. Now who knows how the draft will play. I wonder about Ball falling a spot or 2 and mixing up things.

 

[CelticsFan]

Saw this proposed trade on another site.

Lakers trade their 3rd pick, Mozgov and Deng to the Kings for the Kings 8th and 10th pick. Kings end up with either Ball or Jackson. This is this is the type of deal I hope the Kings look for.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Saw this proposed trade on another site.

Lakers trade their 3rd pick, Mozgov and Deng to the Kings for the Kings 8th and 10th pick. Kings end up with either Ball or Jackson. This is this is the type of deal I hope the Kings look for.

Umm...you just suggested that the Kings pay $102M AND both their picks for the #3 pick. I want the #3 pick, but that is flipping insane.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Umm...you just suggested that the Kings pay $102M AND both their picks for the #3 pick. I want the #3 pick, but that is flipping insane.

If it nets you a franchise PG is it still insane?

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Saw this proposed trade on another site.

Lakers trade their 3rd pick, Mozgov and Deng to the Kings for the Kings 8th and 10th pick. Kings end up with either Ball or Jackson. This is this is the type of deal I hope the Kings look for.


View attachment 6702

I like the idea of trading into the top 3.. I wonder if the (10th pick, 34th & Bogdonovic or Malachi) would get it done? I feel like we need to keep that 8th pick, there's to much talent there.

 

[funkykingston]

Saw this proposed trade on another site.

Lakers trade their 3rd pick, Mozgov and Deng to the Kings for the Kings 8th and 10th pick. Kings end up with either Ball or Jackson. This is this is the type of deal I hope the Kings look for.


View attachment 6702

First of all, the Lakers don't have the third pick. Going into the lottery their odds are:

15.6% chance of the 1st pick
15.7% chance of the 2nd pick
15.6% chance of the 3rd pick
53.1% chance of losing their pick to Philadelphia

Secondly, Capt is right. I like Jackson and Ball but I don't like either of them enough to pay Mozgov and Deng $102 million over the next three seasons. In particular there's zero need for Mozgov on a team that already has Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis and Koufos. Especially at $18 million a year. Deng wouldn't be a bad veteran SF to have but Mozgov makes it too much for me as it would hamstring the Kings in terms of filling out the roster and basically force them to trade Koufos.

The Kings are going into the offseason technically over the cap already.

If they renounce their cap holds and the trade exception from Omri that gets them $30 M or so under the cap. Releasing Afflalo (only $1.5M is guaranteed I believe) gets them to $41 M. Taking on Deng and Mozgov (along with with Ball's rookie deal) would leave them with $4M in cap room.

Cauley-Stein/Koufos/Papagiannis/Mozgov
Tolliver/Labissiere
Deng
Temple/Hield/Richardson
Ball/Galloway

$4M in cap means no Bogdanovic. It also means they have $4M plus minimum deals (and the MLE?) to fill the remaining three roster spots including a veteran PG and at least one backup PG. If it were for Fultz? Sure. For Ball? I have enough doubts that I wouldn't tie up my team's salary cap for years, miss out on Bogdanovic and trade two top 10 picks to get him.

The other part of this is why the Lakers would do it. Sure it frees up capspace but they have between $19 and $30 M (if they waive Black and Young opts out) anyway and who are they going to get at 8 & 10 that makes more sense for their young core than Lonzo Ball?

 

[Hoovtrain]

First of all, the Lakers don't have the third pick. Going into the lottery their odds are:

15.6% chance of the 1st pick
15.7% chance of the 2nd pick
15.6% chance of the 3rd pick
53.1% chance of losing their pick to Philadelphia

Secondly, Capt is right. I like Jackson and Ball but I don't like either of them enough to pay Mozgov and Deng $102 million over the next three seasons. In particular there's zero need for Mozgov on a team that already has Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis and Koufos. Especially at $18 million a year. Deng wouldn't be a bad veteran SF to have but Mozgov makes it too much for me as it would hamstring the Kings in terms of filling out the roster and basically force them to trade Koufos.

The Kings are going into the offseason technically over the cap already.

If they renounce their cap holds and the trade exception from Omri that gets them $30 M or so under the cap. Releasing Afflalo (only $1.5M is guaranteed I believe) gets them to $41 M. Taking on Deng and Mozgov (along with with Ball's rookie deal) would leave them with $4M in cap room.

Cauley-Stein/Koufos/Papagiannis/Mozgov
Tolliver/Labissiere
Deng
Temple/Hield/Richardson
Ball/Galloway

$4M in cap means no Bogdanovic. It also means they have $4M plus minimum deals (and the MLE?) to fill the remaining three roster spots including a veteran PG and at least one backup PG. If it were for Fultz? Sure. For Ball? I have enough doubts that I wouldn't tie up my team's salary cap for years, miss out on Bogdanovic and trade two top 10 picks to get him.

The other part of this is why the Lakers would do it. Sure it frees up capspace but they have between $19 and $30 M (if they waive Black and Young opts out) anyway and who are they going to get at 8 & 10 that makes more sense for their young core than Lonzo Ball?

Great points. And a lot more to this than just getting 3. However, and I posed this earlier, if you knew you were getting a legit, star franchise PG out if it, would you do it?

 

[funkykingston]

Great points. And a lot more to this than just getting 3. However, and I posed this earlier, if you knew you were getting a legit, star franchise PG out if it, would you do it?

If I was absolutely sure that Lonzo Ball was a taller, slightly better defending Steve Nash? Or a better shooting, more athletic Jason Kidd? Sure.

But I'm not sure.

Watching him individually I wonder how he'll do against NBA level athletes. I wonder if he'll be able to get his shot off on the next level. I wonder if he can run a pick an roll.

On the one hand Ball transformed UCLA and Alford's offense. That's impressive. He also has amazing court vision and a sense of the game.

On the other hand, he's got some obvious warts. And ones that may not be correctable.

I don't know what Lonzo Ball can be. I think he's a solid NBA PG at minimum. Can he be special? Maybe. Would I be comfortable mortgaging the future to get him? Eh, I don't know.

And of course this all also assumes that Ball is there at 3. There's a good chance it's Jackson. I love Josh Jackson. I think he's a can't fail prospect with great two way potential. But I'm not sure he's a franchise player either. #8 & #10 and Richardson for #3 and Deng? I'd strongly consider it.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If it nets you a franchise PG is it still insane?

There's a difference between paying a proven commodity $100M and paying $100M to roll the dice. I would gladly give two picks in the 8-11 range to move up to #2/#3 in this draft, but eating bad contracts on top of that is too much. One of the picks for the Lakers' lotto pick (if they keep it, as has been pointed out) and Deng I'd probably do. Both picks and both bad contracts, that's too much by a long shot.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

I can squint and see a scenario where Fox drops to #8.

My Tankathon for today has:

Suns
Lakers
Celtics
Sixers
Magic
Knicks
T'Wolves
Kings
Mavericks
Kings

Fultz, Ball and Jackson go top 3

Philly takes Monk to open up the floor for Embiid and Simmons. Defensively he plays PG but on offense Simmons runs the show and Malik is allowed to just be a scorer.

The Magic consider Fox but they already drafted a PG who can't shoot and don't want to do it again. Ditto for Minny. Orlando takes Tatum.

The best fit for the triangle and alongside Zinger looks to be Ntilikina.

It hurts Thibs to take a poor defender but he can't add Fox to an already terrible shooting team and so he considers Smith Jr (too ball dominant and an iffy defender) and Isaac (a ways away from being able to play PF in the NBA) and takes Markkanen

That leaves Fox for the Kings.

The Mavs see Isaac as too similar to Barnes and they like Smith's star potential.

Which leaves Isaac for the Kings at 10.

At least that's the way I'd love to see things play out.

It all hinges on what the Magic do. Fox is the BPA, but it'd be strange to see them take another pg with a broken shot. Plus Payton has played really since January. I think everything else plays out the way you described. Wolves and Markkanen make too much sense, as do Philly and Monk. Ntilikina is the best pg fit for the triangle and I think he's the surefire target for Phil.

 

[bajaden]

I can squint and see a scenario where Fox drops to #8.

My Tankathon for today has:

Suns
Lakers
Celtics
Sixers
Magic
Knicks
T'Wolves
Kings
Mavericks
Kings

Fultz, Ball and Jackson go top 3

Philly takes Monk to open up the floor for Embiid and Simmons. Defensively he plays PG but on offense Simmons runs the show and Malik is allowed to just be a scorer.

The Magic consider Fox but they already drafted a PG who can't shoot and don't want to do it again. Ditto for Minny. Orlando takes Tatum.

The best fit for the triangle and alongside Zinger looks to be Ntilikina.

It hurts Thibs to take a poor defender but he can't add Fox to an already terrible shooting team and so he considers Smith Jr (too ball dominant and an iffy defender) and Isaac (a ways away from being able to play PF in the NBA) and takes Markkanen

That leaves Fox for the Kings.

The Mavs see Isaac as too similar to Barnes and they like Smith's star potential.

Which leaves Isaac for the Kings at 10.

At least that's the way I'd love to see things play out.

Keep Squinting and I'll pray.... I guess it could happen. I don't think it will, but then I didn't see Papagiannis at 13 or Bennett at number 1. So who knows. I do think someone is going to fall in love with Markkanen and take him somewhere in the top 10. If so, that should push someone to us. My dream scenario is Fox at 8 and Isaac at 10. Unfortunately, I think when Isaac starts working out for teams, his stock is going to go up.

 

[funkykingston]

It all hinges on what the Magic do. Fox is the BPA, but it'd be strange to see them take another pg with a broken shot. Plus Payton has played really since January. I think everything else plays out the way you described. Wolves and Markkanen make too much sense, as do Philly and Monk. Ntilikina is the best pg fit for the triangle and I think he's the surefire target for Phil.

Magic are going to be impossible to read since we don't even know who the new GM will be. They've had talks about trading Gordon so I don't know that there's anybody that you can say for sure will even be on the roster next year.

Still, I think Tatum and Dennis Smith Jr seem like the best fits for a team that will be looking for a possible star to build around.

 

[funkykingston]

Keep Squinting and I'll pray.... I guess it could happen. I don't think it will, but then I didn't see Papagiannis at 13 or Bennett at number 1. So who knows. I do think someone is going to fall in love with Markkanen and take him somewhere in the top 10. If so, that should push someone to us. My dream scenario is Fox at 8 and Isaac at 10. Unfortunately, I think when Isaac starts working out for teams, his stock is going to go up.

Maybe, maybe not. With his slightly funky, wind up shot and somewhat passive game I'm not sure Isaac will
impress in workouts the way others might. Monk and Markkanen can put on a shooting display. The advanced nature of Tatum's game will likely impress. Dennis Smith will probably look great in workouts too.

Ntilikina has a lot to prove in his workouts. With Fox teams will obviously be watching to see if he can improve his shot.

 

[bajaden]

Monk is basically a young Jamal Crawford....looks good for instant offense, but not a complete player I think.

As far as shooting goes, I think your right. But Crawford came into the league with some of the best handles I've ever seen. He broke more ankles than I can shake a stick at. But if Monk becomes the second coming of Crawford, I'd be just fine with that. I think Monk is a better athlete than Crawford was, and I think he's a much better defender at the same point in time. I must admit that I'm a huge Jamal Crawford fan and wanted the Kings to go after him years ago. Despite being a sixth man for most of his career, he's almost had a HOF career, with emphasis on the word almost.

 

[bajaden]

Saw this proposed trade on another site.

Lakers trade their 3rd pick, Mozgov and Deng to the Kings for the Kings 8th and 10th pick. Kings end up with either Ball or Jackson. This is this is the type of deal I hope the Kings look for.


View attachment 6702

I'm glad your not our GM. I want no part of either Deng, who is over the hill, or Mozgov who is one of the biggest overpaid players in the NBA. The Kings would have to be out of their mind to make a trade like this. First, lets see if the Lakers end up with the 3rd pick in the draft. They're sitting a very dangerous position. Any trade I make would be on draft day, and would depend on who is available when the pick comes up. I would consider trading both our first round picks to move up into the top three. But that's it!

 

[Kingsfan23]

How about trading 1 pick down for a PG later in the draft and a bonus player with Issac ? Or heck, how about getting 16, 18, 23, and 26? A full trade down...Bridges leaving the draft is too bad....

Aside from the draft, I think the Kings should resign Lawson mid-level for sure too....he earned it.

For me it would be taking the PG and then trading down the SF where there is depth

 

[Kingsfan23]

Magic are going to be impossible to read since we don't even know who the new GM will be. They've had talks about trading Gordon so I don't know that there's anybody that you can say for sure will even be on the roster next year.

Still, I think Tatum and Dennis Smith Jr seem like the best fits for a team that will be looking for a possible star to build around.

I'm pretty sure Magic will go SF, their glaring need.

 

[bajaden]

Maybe, maybe not. With his slightly funky, wind up shot and somewhat passive game I'm not sure Isaac will
impress in workouts the way others might. Monk and Markkanen can put on a shooting display. The advanced nature of Tatum's game will likely impress. Dennis Smith will probably look great in workouts too.

Ntilikina has a lot to prove in his workouts. With Fox teams will obviously be watching to see if he can improve his shot.

Once again, I hope your right, but I believe that Isaac was hidden in the Florida St. offense and once freed up to show off his wares, he'll impress some Gm"s. I watched that kid play a lot, and if you did, you'd see on occasion, a little glimpse of his abilities. I saw him do a between his legs, behind his back dribble, followed by a spin move and a 18 foot jumper that I had no idea he could do. That was the first and last time all season I saw that move. And I saw close to 20 of his games. The more I watched him play, the more I fell in love with him.

Just the opposite of Dennis Smith Jr. And to be honest, I had a hard time watching Markkanen. Wasn't all his fault. I thought they were playing in the post too much. He's another player that could dazzle GM's in his workouts and move up. I have no doubt that the Kings are going to get a couple of very good players. They just might not play at the positions we would like. For instance, if my choice at 10 is Markkanen or Zach Collins, I'm taking Collins. Why? Because I think his overall potential is higher. Better athlete. Better defender. Better rebounder. Same height. And shot the three almost as well, but with a more limited number of shots. Unfortunately, he's a center.