Who do we draft?

[206Fan]

Maybe it's nothing, but after watching a little bit more tape, I have a growing concern that Isaac might not be able to play SF in the NBA. He can't consistently create his own shot, and he seems to be more comfortable as an interior player.

He does have the length to be a PF at 6'10 with a 7'1 wingspan.

 

[lwc]

Draft boards are all over the place right now. Some have every PG gone by the 8th pick, others have Fox and Frank Nt.... available at 8 and 10. Really, the top 3-4 is about all that seems set.

I really could see Monk dropping hard or going 5th or 6th. He is sooooooooooo unguardable when he is hot but he has no real unquenchable fire like Kobe (yuck) or Jordan and nothing but hitting his shots gets him motivated. He is the ultimate pearl or poop player. I could see him dropping 40 one night on 22 shots or going 2-22 the next night.
The difficulty is if he finds that spark that gets him hot every night in the NBA, GM's will cringe if they passed him up. That is why he is the kind of player I could see going high or completely free falling, kind of like Skal and Aaron Rogers did.

 

[Larry David]

First, I think its at least 50 / 50 Rudy opts in.

Second, you could still wait on a lot of that cap space. By waiting you: still have options to take on bad short money for assets via trade during the season and worst case give a bonus to all of your current players when the difference between your current salary is dispersed to them after the season. The floor doesn't require the Kings to either get into a bad contract or go from bad to mediocre.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Oh please...

Getting fleeced in the 76ers trade. Getting fleeced in the Cousins trade. Handling of cousins trade. Trading cousins but keeping every other vet ensuring that we are too good to tank. Drafting papa 13th.

Skal is the only good thing vlade has done. Love the guy, but he has been a horrid gm.

 

[Blob]

I get why fans want to think the team is close ... but they aren't close.

They are closer to being competitive than we thought in the day and weeks following the trade. I said at the time that for the trade not to be a total fiasco Skal and Buddy needed to show star potential. They did that. In fact Buddy might be better than I thought. He has a good knack for drive and kick with left handed passes and a savvy in between game with one footed floaters. For those paying attention he also dropped sweet dimes flying in face of false narrative he is bad dribbler in mold of Ben. Willie needed to show himself a capable rebounder. His numbers over the final weeks speak for themselves including smart interior passing. You know its not hard to win 35 games. Its really not! Its just 6+ years of Boogie made it feel that way.

 

[Tetsujin]

Getting fleeced in the 76ers trade. Getting fleeced in the Cousins trade. Handling of cousins trade. Trading cousins but keeping every other vet ensuring that we are too good to tank. Drafting papa 13th.

Skal is the only good thing vlade has done. Love the guy, but he has been a horrid gm.

I hate having to be the guy to defend Vlade, who I have spent the vast majority of the past several months blasting at every available opportunity, but Vlade had a really really good 2016 draft despite your inclusion of the drafting of Papa in the bad column for some reason. He also drafted Willie, who continues to improve and show more and more flashes. He's brought in a group of the right kind of vets (Kosta/Tolliver/Temple are the type of veteran leadership this team has lacked since trading Brad Miller and Mike Bibby) and most of all, he signed up Joerger to be our head coach.

Yes, he's had some not-as-good-moves but his regime has more a really mixed bag than anything.

 

[pshn80]

What? Pay Collison and Lawson and aquire one or two vets? Are you trying to extend the playoff streak well into the next decade?

It's a very good draft, but beyond 5-6 there are issues and risk. At the same time, from 7-10, teams can draft somebody that might be truly great. Luckily, the Kings get two cracks at it. You draft the best player available twice, hope you go 2 for 2, but will settle for 1 for 2. Try to bring over Bogdan. See if there is a FA that helps you in the short term but you can develop into a better player down the road (and thus, it makes sense to overpay him to come to Sacramento.) If you can't find that guy, then you: sign Lawson to help groom the PG you drafted because he will be much cheaper than Collison; try to rent some cap space; and fill out the roster with high character vets that know they are coming mostly to babysit and not play.

Other than a hot last two weeks, with several wins over tanking teams, the Kings weren't on 30 win pace post Cousins trade. Even if you think the Kings will have 3-4 prospects that will be really good in a couple of years, it's a team of young raw players without a serious candidate to make the All Star game next year. That's a recipe for a 25 win season.

I can't see how the team chases vets to chase 33 wins, pick 7-8 again, and delay the development of young players that need to play.

I get why fans want to think the team is close ... but they aren't close.[/quo

And because they aren't close and because r young team is raw and is going to get one or two more raws we need to keep six of our 10 vets and hopefully add a new one. Our current team is so much better with Koufos, Tolliver, Temple, Collison and Lawson being key in the mix. You say 32 and I say 32 is better than 25. You say 25 gets you a better draft pick and I say that'a not what I want our team playing for. How much am I paying for lower bowl season tickets? No, vets are gong to win the big prizes not the rookies and second year players.

PS: My. Post wound up at the end of yours and I don't know ho to change it. Please read above.

 

[Larry David]

They are closer to being competitive than we thought in the day and weeks following the trade. I said at the time that for the trade not to be a total fiasco Skal and Buddy needed to show star potential. They did that. In fact Buddy might be better than I thought. He has a good knack for drive and kick with left handed passes and a savvy in between game with one footed floaters. For those paying attention he also dropped sweet dimes flying in face of false narrative he is bad dribbler in mold of Ben. Willie needed to show himself a capable rebounder. His numbers over the final weeks speak for themselves including smart interior passing. You know its not hard to win 35 games. Its really not! Its just 6+ years of Boogie made it feel that way.

I see a ton of this here and the local media. Kings are "better" and "might be ok next year" because fans are judging the team against: (1) their post Cousins expectations; and (2) how they enjoy or otherwise measure this team against past Kings teams. I agree it's more fun to watch and there might be some hope down the road. But, you get wins by being consistently better than the other NBA teams, and well over most nights that won't be the case.

If they draft reasonably well, there might be pieces here that lead to a good team in a couple of years ... but in terms of winning games next year, the current roster and who they are likely to add at 8 and 10 in the draft ... it's on pace to be a bad team. The team isn't ready, seasoned, have currently elite talent as compared to the top 1 or 2 guys on the other team, and doesn't yet know how to win tough games if those other problems away. The Jazz and Clipper wins plus picking off the tankers does not change the fact that they are currently on pace to be pretty bad next year.

 

[Kingster]

I've blasted the Divac hire to kingdom come because I didn't like the idea of the Kings hiring a GM who had no prior track record in assessing talent. It was a crap shoot as far as I was concerned - maybe you win big, but maybe you lose big, and you won't know for a few years whether it's a win or a loss. But after this season, I'm optimistic about Divac's talent evaluation ability.

When you look at Skal, Pappa, Hield, WCS and Malachi they all look like they are going to have futures in the NBA. We can't know exactly what their ceilings are, but it's hard for me to see any of them playing in China in three or four years. We can look at Skal or Pappa as lucky picks. Skal was picked way down in the draft. Was it lucky that some other team hadn't picked him? Yes. But was it intelligent that the Kings did? Yes, very, especially when you remember that Divac traded down in the draft by design. Papa became almost an entirely different human being before our eyes. (He really blew it; he should have gotten his own reality TV show called "From Flab to Muscle Tone" or at least gotten a Weight Watcher's ad). Did Divac see the "inner Pappa" all along or was it all just luck? Maybe he didn't see the inner Pappa, but maybe the outer Pappa was good enough on which to take a risk. And who can say that WCS we've seen in the latter part of this season was a foregone conclusion? Was his light bulb destined to come on, or might he have continued watching rebounds rather than going after them for months or years on end? Maybe WCS doesn't even know the answer to that question. All of their development has been wrapped up in an excellent group of coaches that seem to be very good at teaching the game to young men. But that's a check mark in Divac's favor. He's the guy who hired the head coach who hired the assistants to coach up the talent on this team.

I believe that good GMs bring luck to their side when they astutely make their basketball decisions. When have the Kings EVER brought this amount of young talent to the team from the draft? (Granted, Hield didn't come through the draft, but from a trade half-way through his first season). Certainly, not in my Kings' memory that spans over 25 years. I'm optimistic about this draft. Why? Because now I do see a GM who does have a track record in picking good talent in the draft.

 

[Larry David]

pshn80

Here is why I'd win 25 games by not signing vets over 32 by overpaying a vet to come to Sacramento.

Between Buddy, Skal and the two picks this year ... I suppose their could be a franchise player in that mix, but I don't think the odds favor that. Hopefully, there is an All-Star and two starters. I don't need to see the list of great players that were drafted late, I get it. It's possible to get a guy there, but teams would rather pick higher on the board because its often a better bet.

The Kings aren't signing a franchise player via Free Agency. They won't have their 2019 1st round pick. I do believe there is enough raw talent on this roster and coming in that the Kings will be at the back of the lottery in 2020.

I suppose the Kings' could make season ticket holders happy by just trying to accumulate talent and try trade for a franchise player later ... but you zealots were crazy enough to sign up for tickets. You can talk yourself into next year's stinker because of the legitimate upside.

 

[Blob]

I see a ton of this here and the local media. Kings are "better" and "might be ok next year" because fans are judging the team against: (1) their post Cousins expectations; and (2) how they enjoy or otherwise measure this team against past Kings teams. I agree it's more fun to watch and there might be some hope down the road. But, you get wins by being consistently better than the other NBA teams, and well over most nights that won't be the case.

If they draft reasonably well, there might be pieces here that lead to a good team in a couple of years ... but in terms of winning games next year, the current roster and who they are likely to add at 8 and 10 in the draft ... it's on pace to be a bad team. The team isn't ready, seasoned, have currently elite talent as compared to the top 1 or 2 guys on the other team, and doesn't yet know how to win tough games if those other problems away. The Jazz and Clipper wins plus picking off the tankers does not change the fact that they are currently on pace to be pretty bad next year.

I don't whole heartedly disagree with you. Talent reigns. But you also need synergy. The Kings had no synergy with Boogie. It was a disparate bunch. I don't care how they want to twist the narrative . A 35% usage guy with bad attitude no leadership poor transition D and tick over average efficiency was always dubious proposition. I saw a team with Temple, Lawson, Willie, Buddy and Skal as young guns who had synergy. If you add a few complementary pieces to go with a good coach you have a 35 to 40 win team. My ideal scenario would be package #8 and #10 to draft Fox, sign Otto Porter to max, bring over Bogdan, S&T Ben, buyout Affalo:

PG Lawson, Fox
SG, Buddy, Temple, Bogdan
SF, Porter, Malachi
PF Skal, Tolliver
C Willie, Papa G

We still need another frontline player, maybe trading Koufos for someone who can stretch the floor. But this hypothetical team could be .500 next year and challenge for the playoffs. So it is premature to say how "pretty bad" they will be before the offseason plays out.

 

[twslam07]

I don't whole heartedly disagree with you. Talent reigns. But you also need synergy. The Kings had no synergy with Boogie. It was a disparate bunch. I don't care how they want to twist the narrative . A 35% usage guy with bad attitude no leadership poor transition D and tick over average efficiency was always dubious proposition. I saw a team with Temple, Lawson, Willie, Buddy and Skal as young guns who had synergy. If you add a few complementary pieces to go with a good coach you have a 35 to 40 win team. My ideal scenario would be package #8 and #10 to draft Fox, sign Otto Porter to max, bring over Bogdan, S&T Ben, buyout Affalo:

PG Lawson, Fox
SG, Buddy, Temple, Bogdan
SF, Porter, Malachi
PF Skal, Tolliver
C Willie, Papa G

We still need another frontline player, maybe trading Koufos for someone who can stretch the floor. But this hypothetical team could be .500 next year and challenge for the playoffs. So it is premature to say how "pretty bad" they will be before the offseason plays out.

Porter makes this hypothetical scenario unrealistic.

 

[Larry David]

Even Porter on that squad, the team is mediocre next year and pretty so-so going forward.

 

[Blob]

Even Porter on that squad, the team is mediocre next year and pretty so-so going forward.

Its a team with 4 potential stars: Otto, Skal, Buddy and Fox and role players who could be more in Malachi, Papa G and Bogdhan. But your pessimism is duly noted.

 

[The_Jamal]

Porter makes this hypothetical scenario unrealistic.

I don't see Porter as unrealistic at all. It'll be tough obviously, but I do think he's a very likely S&T candidate. Unless their owner wants to pay well into the luxury tax for a mid-tier playoff team, they really can't afford him. And the fact that we can flip them a good return (Temple+Malachi?) that saves them 15 mil off Porter would be an attractive offer.

Won't be easy as Porter will be popular but we do have a couple advantages. Other teams won't want to go in on him early and hold their cap hostage. While we can be far more selective since we don't "need" to hit on FA's next year. Not many teams can offer cheap replacements like we can either.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

I don't whole heartedly disagree with you. Talent reigns. But you also need synergy. The Kings had no synergy with Boogie. It was a disparate bunch. I don't care how they want to twist the narrative . A 35% usage guy with bad attitude no leadership poor transition D and tick over average efficiency was always dubious proposition. I saw a team with Temple, Lawson, Willie, Buddy and Skal as young guns who had synergy. If you add a few complementary pieces to go with a good coach you have a 35 to 40 win team. My ideal scenario would be package #8 and #10 to draft Fox, sign Otto Porter to max, bring over Bogdan, S&T Ben, buyout Affalo:

PG Lawson, Fox
SG, Buddy, Temple, Bogdan
SF, Porter, Malachi
PF Skal, Tolliver
C Willie, Papa G

We still need another frontline player, maybe trading Koufos for someone who can stretch the floor. But this hypothetical team could be .500 next year and challenge for the playoffs. So it is premature to say how "pretty bad" they will be before the offseason plays out.

Love it, but 0% chance we get Porter. Wiz would be out of their minds to let him walk. He's 5th in 3p% and a phenomenal defender.

 

[hrdboild]

Is there any way we can put Miles Bridges in touch with Ivan Rabb? Whoever he's talking to, I'm not sure he's getting the best advice right now. Seriously though, he's going to need to have a monster Sophomore season just to maintain his top 10 stock for next year with all those Freshman big guys coming in. Guys who come back for a second year usually get picked apart by the scouts.

 

[Jimbob]

Is there any way we can put Miles Bridges in touch with Ivan Rabb? Whoever he's talking to, I'm not sure he's getting the best advice right now. Seriously though, he's going to need to have a monster Sophomore season just to maintain his top 10 stock for next year with all those Freshman big guys coming in. Guys who come back for a second year usually get picked apart by the scouts.

Yeah, I made the Rabb comparison somewhere in these threads. Bridges better dam well hope he can define his skills as a SF if he returns to school. This year if he came out he would go top 14 on the assumption he could. He only loses value as a tweener in next years big man draft.

 

[Jimbob]

Whats the likelihood of a sign and trade with Ben. I like Ben but from what I get most folks don't see him in the plans with our abundance of SG's. I ask because I don't know, however, if hes out the door anyway it would be nice to seek a trade partner that might have a player in a position of need.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Whats the likelihood of a sign and trade with Ben. I like Ben but from what I get most folks don't see him in the plans with our abundance of SG's. I ask because I don't know, however, if hes out the door anyway it would be nice to seek a trade partner that might have a player in a position of need.

We'd have to decide to offer him the qualifying offer first, which is around $5 million or so.

 

[twslam07]

I don't see Porter as unrealistic at all. It'll be tough obviously, but I do think he's a very likely S&T candidate. Unless their owner wants to pay well into the luxury tax for a mid-tier playoff team, they really can't afford him. And the fact that we can flip them a good return (Temple+Malachi?) that saves them 15 mil off Porter would be an attractive offer.

Won't be easy as Porter will be popular but we do have a couple advantages. Other teams won't want to go in on him early and hold their cap hostage. While we can be far more selective since we don't "need" to hit on FA's next year. Not many teams can offer cheap replacements like we can either.

It's not just unrealistic. It's very unrealistic.

 

[206Fan]

Whats the likelihood of a sign and trade with Ben. I like Ben but from what I get most folks don't see him in the plans with our abundance of SG's. I ask because I don't know, however, if hes out the door anyway it would be nice to seek a trade partner that might have a player in a position of need.

I could see the FO just letting him leave in FA, but if there was a S&T in place, I could see us getting back a 2nd round pick.

 

[bajaden]

Maybe it's nothing, but after watching a little bit more tape, I have a growing concern that Isaac might not be able to play SF in the NBA. He can't consistently create his own shot, and he seems to be more comfortable as an interior player.

He does have the length to be a PF at 6'10 with a 7'1 wingspan.

You want to watch film, come to my house and I can show you about 20 games with Isaac. Isaac is a SF, and is the best defensive SF in the entire draft. He has terrific lateral quickness and has no trouble staying in front of just about anyone. Hie struggles are in fighting through screens on occasion. He spent most of his time on the perimeter and shot over 40% from the three, although he didn't take that many. But then he didn't get that many touches to be able to take a lot of shots. He's also a very good shotblocker, and not just a weakside shotblocker, but straight up. Can he play some PF? Maybe in the future, when he gets sttronger, but right now, he's best suited to the SF position, and why not?

 

[HndsmCelt]

You want to watch film, come to my house and I can show you about 20 games with Isaac. Isaac is a SF, and is the best defensive SF in the entire draft. He has terrific lateral quickness and has no trouble staying in front of just about anyone. Hie struggles are in fighting through screens on occasion. He spent most of his time on the perimeter and shot over 40% from the three, although he didn't take that many. But then he didn't get that many touches to be able to take a lot of shots. He's also a very good shotblocker, and not just a weakside shotblocker, but straight up. Can he play some PF? Maybe in the future, when he gets sttronger, but right now, he's best suited to the SF position, and why not?

Question would you snap up Isaac with the 8 pick even if Nitklina is still on the board or would grab a PG first? Many of the Mocks seem to show Isaac dropping to 10 or later.

 

[Suicide King]

@HdsmCelt

That is whats been bugging me. If you could only guarantee either one of the top PGs or SFs at 8, which do you choose?

Is a PG more important going forward (my take) or a SF?

 

[206Fan]

You want to watch film, come to my house and I can show you about 20 games with Isaac. Isaac is a SF, and is the best defensive SF in the entire draft. He has terrific lateral quickness and has no trouble staying in front of just about anyone. Hie struggles are in fighting through screens on occasion. He spent most of his time on the perimeter and shot over 40% from the three, although he didn't take that many. But then he didn't get that many touches to be able to take a lot of shots. He's also a very good shotblocker, and not just a weakside shotblocker, but straight up. Can he play some PF? Maybe in the future, when he gets sttronger, but right now, he's best suited to the SF position, and why not?

Does the invitation include plane tickets?

I think we'll have to see about Isaac. I think he has good upside on both ends of the floor, but we'll have to see which position he'll fit best at.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Question would you snap up Isaac with the 8 pick even if Nitklina is still on the board or would grab a PG first? Many of the Mocks seem to show Isaac dropping to 10 or later.

Wasn't directed to me, but I'm all about BPA...regardless of need. So whoever is considered the better of the 2 I would take

 

[206Fan]

@HdsmCelt

That is whats been bugging me. If you could only guarantee either one of the top PGs or SFs at 8, which do you choose?

Is a PG more important going forward (my take) or a SF?

I think definitely the PG. Going forward, the NBA is a PG's league now. I don't think you can compete at a high level without a good PG.
Playoff teams with elite PGs:
Thunder (Westbrook)
Warriors (Curry)
Rockets (Harden)
Playoff teams with great PGs:
Clippers (CP3)
Raptors(Lowry)
Wizards (Wall)
Celtics(IT)
Playoff teams with good PGs:
Cavaliers(Kyrie)
Blazers (Lillard)
Grizzlies (Conley)
Playoff teams with solid PGs:
Jazz (Hill)
Hawks (Schroder)
Pacers (Teague)
Playoff teams without good PGs:
Spurs
Bulls
Bucks

It just shows how important a good PG is in today's game. So if it came down to a very good SF vs a very good PG, you take the PG and don't look back.

 

[bajaden]

Question would you snap up Isaac with the 8 pick even if Nitklina is still on the board or would grab a PG first? Many of the Mocks seem to show Isaac dropping to 10 or later.

Personally, yes, I would grab Isaac. As much as we need a PG for the future, I think Isaac is the better long term player, and we also need a SF. I happen to think Isaac is special. I know some would disagree with me. Going on my gut on this one. Sometimes you get a feeling about a player.

 

[bajaden]

Does the invitation include plane tickets?

I think we'll have to see about Isaac. I think he has good upside on both ends of the floor, but we'll have to see which position he'll fit best at.

No plane tickets, but I'll pick you up at the airport in San Diego, and the lodging is on me.