Georgios Papagiannis

[The Hammer]

Totally agree, although I'm going with Skal being the game changer here in Sac. He's got it all. Teams will be kicking themselves for years after passing on this kid. Watch him put on a little bit of weight over the off-season and just go off next season.

I'm as high on Skal as I am on Papa. I just tend to talk about Papa more around here because he appears to be just a tad under appreciated as an absolute future force.

But Skal does have it all. And I love his attitude and work ethic. I really do feel we have the start of something special here.

Right now, just looking at Skal, don't you just easily see, minimum, a 20 pt scorer? I do. I mean, that's just obviously what I'm looking at. It's just that the team is figuring things out and finding it's flow, and also he's only really played about 30 NBA games. 2 years from now he's easily an 18-20 point guy, that's already obvious. What's amazing about him is that that now appears to be his floor. What I think is more likely is that he is a 24-27 pt, 10-12 reb guy. For years.

 

[Merdiesel]

I'm as high on Skal as I am on Papa. I just tend to talk about Papa more around here because he appears to be just a tad under appreciated as an absolute future force.

But Skal does have it all. And I love his attitude and work ethic. I really do feel we have the start of something special here.

Right now, just looking at Skal, don't you just easily see, minimum, a 20 pt scorer? I do. I mean, that's just obviously what I'm looking at. It's just that the team is figuring things out and finding it's flow, and also he's only really played about 30 NBA games. 2 years from now he's easily an 18-20 point guy, that's already obvious. What's amazing about him is that that now appears to be his floor. What I think is more likely is that he is a 24-27 pt, 10-12 reb guy. For years.

Spot on. Also see a couple assists a game as well as becoming an above average rim protector. So excited for next season!

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I'm as high on Skal as I am on Papa. I just tend to talk about Papa more around here because he appears to be just a tad under appreciated as an absolute future force.

But Skal does have it all. And I love his attitude and work ethic. I really do feel we have the start of something special here.

Right now, just looking at Skal, don't you just easily see, minimum, a 20 pt scorer? I do. I mean, that's just obviously what I'm looking at. It's just that the team is figuring things out and finding it's flow, and also he's only really played about 30 NBA games. 2 years from now he's easily an 18-20 point guy, that's already obvious. What's amazing about him is that that now appears to be his floor. What I think is more likely is that he is a 24-27 pt, 10-12 reb guy. For years.

Nice post. Honestly, I feel like Skal has KG type potential... Same body type, same athleticism, same fluidity, same drive/hustle.. He may never be a 5-APG player like Garnett but I think Skals potential is similar to KG in all other aspects. And he seems to compliment Papa very well.

 

[ESP47]

I don't think Skal will ever come close to being the defender that KG was. But at his age, he's a lot better offensively than KG was though so he has that going for him. Hopefully he has the same upward trends that KG had. Even if he turns out to be KG Lite, we found ourselves a gem at the end of the first round.

I think Papa is going to wind up being Kofous with an offensive game. It's all up to him to see if he can absorb the fundamentals of the game because the physical skills are there already. He just needs to tighten up a few things and figure out where he needs to be on the court without having to process a ton of thought into it.

 

[Tetsujin]

I don't think Skal will ever come close to being the defender that KG was. But at his age, he's a lot better offensively than KG was though so he has that going for him. Hopefully he has the same upward trends that KG had. Even if he turns out to be KG Lite, we found ourselves a gem at the end of the first round.

I think Papa is going to wind up being Kofous with an offensive game. It's all up to him to see if he can absorb the fundamentals of the game because the physical skills are there already. He just needs to tighten up a few things and figure out where he needs to be on the court without having to process a ton of thought into it.

I don't think he'll ever be the athlete or defender that Kosta is. KK is actually pretty nimble for his size and a really good team defender at the five.

 

[kingdivac]

I don't think Skal will ever come close to being the defender that KG was. But at his age, he's a lot better offensively than KG was though so he has that going for him. Hopefully he has the same upward trends that KG had. Even if he turns out to be KG Lite, we found ourselves a gem at the end of the first round.

I think Papa is going to wind up being Kofous with an offensive game. It's all up to him to see if he can absorb the fundamentals of the game because the physical skills are there already. He just needs to tighten up a few things and figure out where he needs to be on the court without having to process a ton of thought into it.

Yes, both Skal and Papa look promising especially offense, but both need to work on their defenses - most especially their foot speeds and rebounding. They routinely get blown by and sometimes outboarded. They both sometimes ball watch too. The good news is, defense is easier to get better in than offense - conditioning plays a big part in it.

 

[Nightfall]

PapaG did an interview on Greek Tv : http://nba.sport24.gr/article/4610368/papagiannis-gi-auto-efuga-apo-ton-olumpiako (in greek).

On second thought, I will quickly translate you the parts concerning the Kings. Usually international players reveal more when they talk to home media.

I never gave any importance to the fact I was the Nr.13. Everything must be proven in the court and on training. In the beginning it was tough. The game was much different than in Europe, and I tried to play similarly , then I saw DMC being able to move around all positions from 1 to 5.

Then he says the stuff about DMC I mentioned and that Koufos and Peja (Stojakovic) really help him adapt to the new reality.

I want to be a tall C with a good jump shot. I want to make a career on ΝΒΑ... My goal is to be on the rotation starting next year, the team has a plan for me which I can't reveal. I work on my body a lot, and plan to play on Summer League, the most important is to be healthy with no injuries.

Then he says about the weird feeling to play against Giannis on his first game and that they spoke. He hopes to make a good career like Giannis and that he wishes him to be healthy and to rise.

About not playing in the beginning:

There were nights I couldn't sleep. I would watch game videos at 3, at 6 am, even the whole night. I was tense, not because I wasn't playing, but because I wanted to prove them that they can count on me. I am used to it now

Then he says that it was difficult to adapt to a small city like Sacramento were everything closes at 10 pm (my note: Athens has 5M population and it is basically a city that never sleeps), he had to completely change his lifestyle.
About the Greek NT he wants to attent but everything will be done after speaking with the Kings. He prefers fame and good basket, winning awards than making a lot of money

And he said that ,coincidentally, he supported Kings as a little kid, when he was practicing with his hometown team (Megara) his coach and father of a teammate/friend came for a US trip from Sacramento and gave him a Kings jersey.

That's pretty much it. I left out the parts about his youth in the greek teams etc...

 

[ParniValjak]

I hope he turns into a little mini-DMC temperament wise.

Swagger and a little anger! I liked what I saw tonight.

Get rid off him!

#CharacterMatters

 

[ParniValjak]

I'm as high on Skal as I am on Papa. I just tend to talk about Papa more around here because he appears to be just a tad under appreciated as an absolute future force.

But Skal does have it all. And I love his attitude and work ethic. I really do feel we have the start of something special here.

Right now, just looking at Skal, don't you just easily see, minimum, a 20 pt scorer? I do. I mean, that's just obviously what I'm looking at. It's just that the team is figuring things out and finding it's flow, and also he's only really played about 30 NBA games. 2 years from now he's easily an 18-20 point guy, that's already obvious. What's amazing about him is that that now appears to be his floor. What I think is more likely is that he is a 24-27 pt, 10-12 reb guy. For years.

I also like Skal. I think he is the best prospect on the roster at the moment. What will be interesting to see if how is he going to handle all of the attention that he will start receiving. When team start scouting him, giving him more attention defensively, when teams start keeping him off the boards.

It generally takes some time for players to adjust when they start seeing double teams. Cousins was a turnover machine for a couple of seasons once he started seeing double teams and this is the guy that could power through them. Skal is not going to have that luxury so he will need to rely on finesse. He also needs to improve his rebounding technique a bit. He grabs a lot of rebounds out of his area and is pretty average at boxing out. Hopefully with more strength, this aspect of his game improves.

But you are right, he does look to be a 20/10 type of player in the NBA.

 

[Telemachus]

I also like Skal. I think he is the best prospect on the roster at the moment. What will be interesting to see if how is he going to handle all of the attention that he will start receiving. When team start scouting him, giving him more attention defensively, when teams start keeping him off the boards.

It generally takes some time for players to adjust when they start seeing double teams. Cousins was a turnover machine for a couple of seasons once he started seeing double teams and this is the guy that could power through them. Skal is not going to have that luxury so he will need to rely on finesse. He also needs to improve his rebounding technique a bit. He grabs a lot of rebounds out of his area and is pretty average at boxing out. Hopefully with more strength, this aspect of his game improves.

But you are right, he does look to be a 20/10 type of player in the NBA.

I think Skal's biggest problem rebounding is strength, especially lower body strength. He is good at always going to the ball and putting a body on someone. He just gets pushed forward too much cause he can't hold position.

Oddly enough, Papagiannis is also good at getting position and boxing out, but doesn't use his strength to push back. He tends to stand tall (or straight up) which makes it easier to give him a small push off the ball or to go over his back. Should be easy to correct though.

 

[ParniValjak]

Nice post. Honestly, I feel like Skal has KG type potential... Same body type, same athleticism, same fluidity, same drive/hustle.. He may never be a 5-APG player like Garnett but I think Skals potential is similar to KG in all other aspects. And he seems to compliment Papa very well.

WOW!!! Settle down chief!

KG is one of the all-star great, arguably the best PF of all time. Outstanding 2 way player who could do EVERYTHING on the court. Not sure Skal can sniff that and I like Skal a lot.

I see Skal more like a LaMarcus Aldridge type player which is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

WOW!!! Settle down chief!

KG is one of the all-star great, arguably the best PF of all time. Outstanding 2 way player who could do EVERYTHING on the court. Not sure Skal can sniff that and I like Skal a lot.

I see Skal more like a LaMarcus Aldridge type player which is nothing to sneeze at.

I find your lack of faith disturbing! jk.. haha. Not saying he'll be GOAT.. just that his game reminds me more of a KG type then LMA. I feel like he'll be a better rebounder and defender then Aldrige. "KG lite" like someone else above said.

 

[KestrelKing]

My son and I were marveling at the improvement of Big Papa. Suddenly my son said in his best commercial voice "Better jumpers, better rebounds, Papa G". Lol.

 

[Merdiesel]

Yes, both Skal and Papa look promising especially offense, but both need to work on their defenses - most especially their foot speeds and rebounding. They routinely get blown by and sometimes outboarded. They both sometimes ball watch too. The good news is, defense is easier to get better in than offense - conditioning plays a big part in it.

I'd go as far to say that miscommunication on the floor played an even bigger part.
Not just between Skal and Papa but with all 5 guys. We are still giving up wide open 3's throughout the game. We still allow way to many layups. But I will say, It's a work in progress and I've got more hope in the Sacramento Kings than I have had in a long long time. Guys aren't screaming at each other on blown assignments but rather talking it over and pointing out mistakes. Especially Temple and Tolliver. I believe both guys will be absolutely critical in the development in our young guys. I'd like to see these two stick around as long as possible. As far as I'm concerned, Coach Joerger needs to have a seat next to him reserved for Garrett when he retires. Next great coach IMO.

 

[John Galt]

Every star player has a sword that some will hold him to.

Russell chased out KD and was overbearing on offense, Lebron meddles in team business too much by playing the media.

These are facts which remain but arent a huge issue because at the end of the day both are perceived as winners.

Demarcus was getting to that point here. More and more the national media were coming to the realization of the truth, that it was through sheer mismanagement and instability as a franchise which lead to us never being able to build a winning franchise around the best big man in the league.

These facts still remain, though the glory of it is management has shifted the goal posts by trading demarcus and in doing so, have led us to a few more losing seasons built around player development, so expectations aren't that we will win for awhile. The hope is that we dont shoot ourselves in the foot through ineptness around the time we start winning when it really counts but who knows, we are the kings.

They're perceived as winners because they are winners because they won games. DMC can't hold Westbrook's jock. If he could, Kings would have won 41 games at SOME point along the way - maybe 50. DMC is not in the same class as Lebron or Russell. If he was, we'd have happily given him the $200M no question about it.

 

[ockingsfan]

They're perceived as winners because they are winners because they won games. DMC can't hold Westbrook's jock. If he could, Kings would have won 41 games at SOME point along the way - maybe 50. DMC is not in the same class as Lebron or Russell. If he was, we'd have happily given him the $200M no question about it.

The thing is, is that the NBA has changed. It is no longer a big mans league. The league is dominated by wing players now, and that is due to the new rules about contact and the 3 point shot.

I don't think it is so much about DMC wasn't able to carry the Kings to 50 wins as it is that the league is not made for dominant big men anymore. When you see the two best big men in the league (DMC and AD) struggle to win 33 games in a season for their respective teams, that should tell everyone something.

If DMC played 15 years ago, I have no doubt that DMC would had carried us to heights similar to Webber and Divac did.

But, it is 2017 and the league has changed. The NBA is geared towards the perimeter game now, and I think Vlade saw that fundamental change and that is why he made the move to trade DMC.

 

[KingsFanGER]

The thing is, is that the NBA has changed. It is no longer a big mans league. The league is dominated by wing players now, and that is due to the new rules about contact and the 3 point shot.

I don't think it is so much about DMC wasn't able to carry the Kings to 50 wins as it is that the league is not made for dominant big men anymore. When you see the two best big men in the league (DMC and AD) struggle to win 33 games in a season for their respective teams, that should tell everyone something.

If DMC played 15 years ago, I have no doubt that DMC would had carried us to heights similar to Webber and Divac did.

But, it is 2017 and the league has changed. The NBA is geared towards the perimeter game now, and I think Vlade saw that fundamental change and that is why he made the move to trade DMC.

I agree with everything but your take on Vlade. If Vlade saw that fundamental change, why did he draft 3 bigs in 2 years and passed on quite a few decent guard or wing prospects to draft those bigs?

A team with decent wings and guards around a lone big named DMC could work. Instead Vlade gave us a team with weak guards and wings with most of the young talent locked in the big man spots and therefore benched behind DMC and KK, when we were still trying to win games.

 

[bajaden]

I don't think he'll ever be the athlete or defender that Kosta is. KK is actually pretty nimble for his size and a really good team defender at the five.

I always find these types of comments interesting. My first thought is, based on what? Not saying you don't have a right to your opinion, but if someone asked me how good I thought Papagiannis will be, my answer would be, I have no idea. He's 19 yr's old in his first year in the NBA. He appears to have a decent skill set to start with, and he seems to be building his body into something resembling an NBA player. Athletically, he runs the floor fairly well, but laterally, he struggles. So I don't see him as a good pick and roll defender, or a player you want isolated on the perimeter against a guard.

Based on what I've seen so far, do I think he can be as good a player as Koufos? Yeah, maybe. Do I think he can be better than Koufos? Ask me that at the end of next season. It's rumored that he's a hard worker, and if so, I can guarantee that he'll get better. What his ceiling is, I have no idea. I hate to keep bringing this up, but anyone that saw Marc Gasol early in his career, would never have predicted he would turn out to be as good as he has. But you know what, someone in Memphis did, or they wouldn't have made that trade.

So no predictions on my part as to how good big Papa will be. I hope he's the second coming of Gasol, but even if he ends up being the next Koufos, that's not that bad considering how I felt about him after watching him in summer league. My point is, it's usually a mistake to base a players ceiling on what you see right now. I've been surprised to many times. Plus, I hate eating my own words. So I prefer to take a wait and see attitude. But hey, if everyone took that attitude, there wouldn't be much discussion here would there?

 

[ockingsfan]

I agree with everything but your take on Vlade. If Vlade saw that fundamental change, why did he draft 3 bigs in 2 years and passed on quite a few decent guard or wing prospects to draft those bigs?

You still need bigs, but they will play a supporting role, instead of being the dominant player on the team.

You still need rebounds and defense and to protect the paint, it just doesn't work when they are the player you build your whole team around anymore.

Also, 2 of the 3 bigs (Skal and WCS) he drafted is the new breed of big men. Mobile and can play the perimeter.

 

[KingsFanGER]

You still need bigs, but they will play a supporting role, instead of being the dominant player on the team.

You still need rebounds and defense and to protect the paint, it just doesn't work when they are the player you build your whole team around anymore.

So you need 4 redundant bigs just for defense and rebounds? You need them more than actual wing prospects like Johnson or Winslow or guards like Baldwin?
If Vlade truly wanted to built a team around wings and guards one defensive big man prospect on top of KK would have made sense. Everything else should have gone into athletic wings and guards or in big wings/athletic stretch 4's with the ability to guard 1-5 like Jamychal Green or Draymond.
But here we are, with 4 bigs of which none can guard SF's, but you somehow are convinced that Vlade realized that the league is a guard/wing league now.

You know what? I'm no cap expert, but in the 2016 offseason, we didn't go after Lin, Harkless, Solomon Hill, L. Thomas or other capable guards or wings. We didn't trade Gay, who doesn't fit your assumed playstyle at all. We kept KK, although we spent most of our picks on bigs. Our FA signings for the wings were horrible, when you leave Temple out of the picture.

We were left with DC/Afflalo/Gay/DMC/KK, which is a disgrace of a starting 5 in todays league. If Vlade really realized this league is a guard/wing league now, he pretty much set us up for failure on purpose in 2016/17.

 

[NowImLost]

So you need 4 redundant bigs just for defense and rebounds? You need them more than actual wing prospects like Johnson or Winslow or guards like Baldwin?
If Vlade truly wanted to built a team around wings and guards one defensive big man prospect on top of KK would have made sense. Everything else should have gone into athletic wings and guards or in big wings/athletic stretch 4's with the ability to guard 1-5 like Jamychal Green or Draymond.
But here we are, with 4 bigs of which none can guard SF's, but you somehow are convinced that Vlade realized that the league is a guard/wing league now.

You know what? I'm no cap expert, but in the 2016 offseason, we didn't go after Lin, Harkless, Solomon Hill, L. Thomas or other capable guards or wings. We didn't trade Gay, who doesn't fit your assumed playstyle at all. We kept KK, although we spent most of our picks on bigs. Our FA signings for the wings were horrible, when you leave Temple out of the picture.

We were left with DC/Afflalo/Gay/DMC/KK, which is a disgrace of a starting 5 in todays league. If Vlade really realized this league is a guard/wing league now, he pretty much set us up for failure on purpose in 2016/17.

I swear that you forgot that you're talking about the Sacramento Kings and free agents.

 

[ockingsfan]

So you need 4 redundant bigs just for defense and rebounds? You need them more than actual wing prospects like Johnson or Winslow or guards like Baldwin?
If Vlade truly wanted to built a team around wings and guards one defensive big man prospect on top of KK would have made sense. Everything else should have gone into athletic wings and guards or in big wings/athletic stretch 4's with the ability to guard 1-5 like Jamychal Green or Draymond.
But here we are, with 4 bigs of which none can guard SF's, but you somehow are convinced that Vlade realized that the league is a guard/wing league now.

You know what? I'm no cap expert, but in the 2016 offseason, we didn't go after Lin, Harkless, Solomon Hill, L. Thomas or other capable guards or wings. We didn't trade Gay, who doesn't fit your assumed playstyle at all. We kept KK, although we spent most of our picks on bigs. Our FA signings for the wings were horrible, when you leave Temple out of the picture.

We were left with DC/Afflalo/Gay/DMC/KK, which is a disgrace of a starting 5 in todays league. If Vlade really realized this league is a guard/wing league now, he pretty much set us up for failure on purpose in 2016/17.

Vlade was still trying to make it work with DMC at this point last year. Since he had no idea if Vivek would sign off on a DMC trade, he had to build accordingly.

As far as redundant big men, there are only 2 big men with a similar game, Papa and KK, and KK is in the last year of his contract.

When it comes to the draft, you pick the player you like best, BPA, not just a player to fill a spot on our depth chart.

If Vlade likes papa, Richardson and Skal the best at those draft positions, then he drafted them.

I tell you, I would much rather have papa and Skal now than any of the wing players drafted after them in last year's draft.

 

[Sac.1989]

They're perceived as winners because they are winners because they won games. DMC can't hold Westbrook's jock. If he could, Kings would have won 41 games at SOME point along the way - maybe 50. DMC is not in the same class as Lebron or Russell. If he was, we'd have happily given him the $200M no question about it.

Have you seen the teams assembled around DMC ? Westbrook wouldnt have made any more of a difference in the win loss column playing for us and you would be kidding yourself if you think he would

 

[upinsmoke]

It's not overly complicated, providing that we indeed have 2 picks we should leave the draft with a wing and a point guard.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Vlade was still trying to make it work with DMC at this point last year. Since he had no idea if Vivek would sign off on a DMC trade, he had to build accordingly.

As far as redundant big men, there are only 2 big men with a similar game, Papa and KK, and KK is in the last year of his contract.

When it comes to the draft, you pick the player you like best, BPA, not just a player to fill a spot on our depth chart.

If Vlade likes papa, Richardson and Skal the best at those draft positions, then he drafted them.

I tell you, I would much rather have papa and Skal now than any of the wing players drafted after them in last year's draft.

Vlade didn't built accordingly.
KK, Papa and WCS (that's pretty much why Willie got no minutes at all in the beginning of the season and was mainly backing up KK after Joerger put more trust in him) are almost entirely redundant. Skal too can't guard SF's.
You pick BPA when you don't have enough talent and are pretty much looking for an overall upgrade regardless of position. You don't pick BPA, when one position is locked, because you have one of the best players of the league already on your roster.
I don't care if Johnson or Winslow or a wing prospect from the last draft look worse than WCS, Skal or Papa right now. My point was, that if Vlade understands that this is a wing/guard league, he wouldn't have drafted mostly bigs based on the information he had on the past draft days.

 

[VF21]

MOD NOTE: I moved the tangential discussion of DeMarcus Cousins to its own thread in the NBA forum.

 

[ppine]

Get in shape, learn defense, improve footwork, get mean when reboiling and defending inside.
The formula is simple. He is young and raw with a great chance to be really good. Bigs take longer. Remember Whiteside.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Papa averaged nearly 19 minutes per game after the all star break. Sure, the team wasn't exactly trying to put the best team possible on the court for all 48 minutes during that stretch, but do you see him averaging less during the 17-18 season?

 

[OffTheWallJamal]

The biggest surprise to me about PapaG? His ability to set some really good screens, I love it. Exciting prospect to watch grow, maybe he could be our Enes Kanter in the future, who can be our 6th man and play at least some defense, unlike Kanter.

 

[ESP47]

Papa averaged nearly 19 minutes per game after the all star break. Sure, the team wasn't exactly trying to put the best team possible on the court for all 48 minutes during that stretch, but do you see him averaging less during the 17-18 season?

Too many variables to guess at this point. Joerger isn't going to start the season in the tank so if we keep KK it's pretty safe to assume that he will be the starter. At that point it depends on the draft and if we wind up with someone like Zach Collins. Then it will depend on Papa's development over the summer. After that it will depend on how well or poorly the team plays. If they have a Brooklyn Nets type start to the season, he will probably end up playing more. If we are somewhere within the vicinity of 8th, he will probably play less with WCS taking up a lot of the minutes at C along with KK.