The FO traded Boogie. You have to tank. It's not a question. But then not trading Collison or other vet pending FA is just mind boggling. Nice to have a well thought out plan and execute it as opposed to going knee jerk reaction and settling for pennies on the dollar and then not dealing other lower assets for lower future value.
To tank or not to tank (split from game thread)
- Thread starter funkykingston
- Start date
Absolutely. Some people kind of poo poo the stats as statistical projections aren't 100% accurate. But, if you don't go with the stats, what do you go with? I have never wanted to tank even when it seemed to make sense. This year we have to tank. The farther we drop, the better. There is no guarantee NO will stay out of the top 3 but those are the chances we take. It seems unlikely that any team with part time tech magnet Boogie and AD can't win a few. Then we take a chance with the ping pong balls. No guarantees how that works out but it's all we have to go on.
As much as I have never wanted our team to tank, I also have never advocated a two for one trade with us getting the two. I see this draft differently. If we see the trade as basically a Boogie for two first round picks, we have to take into account that these youngsters are damn good. It certainly is possible that we could get two rookies whose value is very high and would make up for the loss of Boogie. Imagine us going on a long losing streak (possible) and ping ponging our way into the top 3. Also imagine NO ending up with the 4th pick. As unlikely as that all may be, it IS possible. Thoughts like these keep me from blowing my stack about the trade.
As much as I have never wanted our team to tank, I also have never advocated a two for one trade with us getting the two. I see this draft differently. If we see the trade as basically a Boogie for two first round picks, we have to take into account that these youngsters are damn good. It certainly is possible that we could get two rookies whose value is very high and would make up for the loss of Boogie. Imagine us going on a long losing streak (possible) and ping ponging our way into the top 3. Also imagine NO ending up with the 4th pick. As unlikely as that all may be, it IS possible. Thoughts like these keep me from blowing my stack about the trade.
I'm not sure I buy that not trading Collison or any other vet translates to a poor tanking effort. In my opinion, the vets on this team aren't good enough to influence the win total up or down. I could see how an argument could be made that Afflalo and/or Ben McLemore should have been traded to make room for the boat load of wings we have, but they aren't winning us any games or influencing our lottery chances. Collison isn't really taking minutes from any young guys so I don't see that trading him affects the tank up or down.
My biggest complaint with standing pat is that you don't get anything for those guys if they walk this summer. Collison has value which I think they could have capitalized on but failed to. Of course after the Cousins trade it's entirely possible that offers for our remaining vets were of the "you suck at getting value so were going to try and steal from you" variety. Why Vlade would hold out for value on those guys but not Cousins is beyond me.
My biggest complaint with standing pat is that you don't get anything for those guys if they walk this summer. Collison has value which I think they could have capitalized on but failed to. Of course after the Cousins trade it's entirely possible that offers for our remaining vets were of the "you suck at getting value so were going to try and steal from you" variety. Why Vlade would hold out for value on those guys but not Cousins is beyond me.
Now that DMC is gone, there is absolutely no reason to try and win and make the playoffs. They would get swept by the Warriors!!!
If Coach Joeger is as smart as I think he is, he really needs to stop trying to win games and play the Kids almost exclusively now!!!
The best thing for Coach's career would be to have two top 10 picks in this year's draft to build upon in the coming years!!!
If Coach Joeger is as smart as I think he is, he really needs to stop trying to win games and play the Kids almost exclusively now!!!
The best thing for Coach's career would be to have two top 10 picks in this year's draft to build upon in the coming years!!!
I agree with some of you who advise tanking and some of you who don't - when you are really saying "play the youngsters and let her rip!" Because we all know that means winning fewer games but also preparing the youngsters for the future. So I'm good with that. But not so good if you think they should lay down and lose every game somehow, someway, in the hopes of getting an extra ping pong ball for the eventual crapshoot.
Can't we just say we want Joerger to give the youngsters all the minutes they can handle, but without losing discipline and confidence?
Not really a question of extra ping pong balls here!!!
It's between having a top 10 draft pick and potentially NO draft picks this year!!!
So, anyway you want to slice it, the Kings need to loose as many games as possible to make sure they keep their top 10 lottery pick.
I am not condoning just laying down, but the Kids need to play and play big minutes every game. They need to have a baptism by fire. Heck, throw big Papa out there too!
There is really no pluses to playing players like Toliver, Aaron Afflalo, even DC or Lawson (unless we plan to resign them) extended minutes here.
It's between having a top 10 draft pick and potentially NO draft picks this year!!!
So, anyway you want to slice it, the Kings need to loose as many games as possible to make sure they keep their top 10 lottery pick.
I am not condoning just laying down, but the Kids need to play and play big minutes every game. They need to have a baptism by fire. Heck, throw big Papa out there too!
There is really no pluses to playing players like Toliver, Aaron Afflalo, even DC or Lawson (unless we plan to resign them) extended minutes here.
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The worst part of the Tanking process, is that the teams below us are better at Tanking than we are.
Minus DMC for two weeks, we are still stuck at #11 in the draft right now!
We need to drop to at least #8 to be comfortable going into the Lottery drawing!!!
Minus DMC for two weeks, we are still stuck at #11 in the draft right now!
We need to drop to at least #8 to be comfortable going into the Lottery drawing!!!
Absolutely. Some people kind of poo poo the stats as statistical projections aren't 100% accurate. But, if you don't go with the stats, what do you go with? I have never wanted to tank even when it seemed to make sense. This year we have to tank. The farther we drop, the better. There is no guarantee NO will stay out of the top 3 but those are the chances we take. It seems unlikely that any team with part time tech magnet Boogie and AD can't win a few. Then we take a chance with the ping pong balls. No guarantees how that works out but it's all we have to go on.
As much as I have never wanted our team to tank, I also have never advocated a two for one trade with us getting the two. I see this draft differently. If we see the trade as basically a Boogie for two first round picks, we have to take into account that these youngsters are damn good. It certainly is possible that we could get two rookies whose value is very high and would make up for the loss of Boogie. Imagine us going on a long losing streak (possible) and ping ponging our way into the top 3. Also imagine NO ending up with the 4th pick. As unlikely as that all may be, it IS possible. Thoughts like these keep me from blowing my stack about the trade.
As much as I have never wanted our team to tank, I also have never advocated a two for one trade with us getting the two. I see this draft differently. If we see the trade as basically a Boogie for two first round picks, we have to take into account that these youngsters are damn good. It certainly is possible that we could get two rookies whose value is very high and would make up for the loss of Boogie. Imagine us going on a long losing streak (possible) and ping ponging our way into the top 3. Also imagine NO ending up with the 4th pick. As unlikely as that all may be, it IS possible. Thoughts like these keep me from blowing my stack about the trade.
However there is also just as likely a possibility that Kings end up with NO picks in this year's draft as Pelicans get a top 3 and Kings end up outside the top 10 because the other teams have tanked harder for longer where as the Kings waited until the very end and shot themselves in the foot as always. #Kangz
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Yesterday better have been part of a tank. Also, a few games before, a couple vets launched some mortar shots at the basket that were completely out of character. Perhaps a select few players and Joerger are actively tanking. In any case, yesterday seemed like a Christmas present. The tanking gauntlet has been thrown down and the Kings are in the fight.
Also, a few games before, a couple vets launched some mortar shots at the basket that were completely out of character. Perhaps a select few players and Joerger are actively tanking. In any case, yesterday seemed like a Christmas present. The tanking gauntlet has been thrown down and the Kings are in the fight.
Why do you hate tanking? If we don't tank our reward is watching Collison, koufos, lawson, and Tolliver get absolutely spanked by the warriors on national TV and also losing our first round pick. At least if we lose intentionally we get a better chance of getting a player that helps us long term. Also if you want another reason to want to tank Google Jayson tatum highlights.
Again, it's really NOT a question of ping pong balls here.
We simply do not have the players to make the playoffs, regardless of how weak the #8 team will be.
Soooooo..... do we play well enough to get to #11-14 pick and lose our lottery pick....
OR
Do we play the Kids as much as possible, let them learn the NBA game, lose as many games as possible over the next month and a half, to drop us into a safe zone for the lottery #5-8.
Even if we were #9-10 in the pre-lotto standing and being the Kings, we have a great chance of dropping out of the top 10 and thus lose our lottery pick. And as a kicker, then we watch N.O. luck into a top 3 protected pick.
Sooooooo...... for the long term sanity of all Kings fans, the Kings need to lose and lose big, the sooner the better, so at least we have some semblance of hope in the future!
We simply do not have the players to make the playoffs, regardless of how weak the #8 team will be.
Soooooo..... do we play well enough to get to #11-14 pick and lose our lottery pick....
OR
Do we play the Kids as much as possible, let them learn the NBA game, lose as many games as possible over the next month and a half, to drop us into a safe zone for the lottery #5-8.
Even if we were #9-10 in the pre-lotto standing and being the Kings, we have a great chance of dropping out of the top 10 and thus lose our lottery pick. And as a kicker, then we watch N.O. luck into a top 3 protected pick.
Sooooooo...... for the long term sanity of all Kings fans, the Kings need to lose and lose big, the sooner the better, so at least we have some semblance of hope in the future!
If we followed that self-righteous stuff we wouldn't have Skal/Bogdan now
Teams "tank" in professional sports if we are talking generally not playing the rotation that will maximize victory chances or alter their roster for losses in professional sports, because it's the prudent thing to do asset wise
It's also more prudent for your future to get your youth reps
Teams "tank" in professional sports if we are talking generally not playing the rotation that will maximize victory chances or alter their roster for losses in professional sports, because it's the prudent thing to do asset wise
It's also more prudent for your future to get your youth reps
Vlade may get the award for quickest tank job ever. He took the team from an on the fringe of the playoffs team to the worst team in the league with one terrible trade. I think front offices always underestimate how much fans hate tank jobs. It you want to kill your team's popularity and make a joke of yourself in your home city then be the GM that decides to tank.
I don't know if Dave Joerger's system is hard to learn or understand or what but his teams generally start slow. Starting a tank mid-season with his system in place is just asking for a garbage product. And I really like him as a coach. If I could ask the Kings executives one question right now it would be "Why should I watch?"
I don't know if Dave Joerger's system is hard to learn or understand or what but his teams generally start slow. Starting a tank mid-season with his system in place is just asking for a garbage product. And I really like him as a coach. If I could ask the Kings executives one question right now it would be "Why should I watch?"
Philly doesn't have Embiid and look like they will settle in at #4 or #5 in ping pong balls. The Kings look like they are going to lose 80+% of their games for the rest of the season; they could get down to #5 or #6 in ping pong balls. Hard to believe that this King-Philly pick is going to be anything less than #7, and it could be much higher with some luck.
NO looks like they end up in the 8-12 slot. They are going to be trying their hardest for the playoffs, but the Cousins addition isn't exactly going seamlessly, and it probably won't for the rest of the season. NO currently has 37 losses and the Bucks and Miami in the 13th and 14th draft slots respectively have 33 losses. I think it's very unlikely that NO can overtake either of those teams.
NO looks like they end up in the 8-12 slot. They are going to be trying their hardest for the playoffs, but the Cousins addition isn't exactly going seamlessly, and it probably won't for the rest of the season. NO currently has 37 losses and the Bucks and Miami in the 13th and 14th draft slots respectively have 33 losses. I think it's very unlikely that NO can overtake either of those teams.
Bogdan is probably not coming. He just signed for 2017-18:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...h-Fenerbahce-For-17-18-Despite-Kings-Interest
http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...h-Fenerbahce-For-17-18-Despite-Kings-Interest
I don't think that necessarily means he is not coming.
I think it was a precautionary signing for Bogdan, in case he can't come to contract terms with the Kings this summer, he doesn't want to go without a 2017-18 job. It actually gives him more negotiating power when he talks to the Kings.
A $1 million buyout seems like a move to make sure he has a reasonable buyout come summer time.
I'm sure if the Kings throws 3 years at $7 or $8 million per year, he probably comes to the Kings.
I think it was a precautionary signing for Bogdan, in case he can't come to contract terms with the Kings this summer, he doesn't want to go without a 2017-18 job. It actually gives him more negotiating power when he talks to the Kings.
A $1 million buyout seems like a move to make sure he has a reasonable buyout come summer time.
I'm sure if the Kings throws 3 years at $7 or $8 million per year, he probably comes to the Kings.