Trade deadline approaching for Kings

[Iced Espresso]

Seems like a lot of people like Lawson, but I'm not a big fan of him. He's never been known as anything except a below-average defender. He's highly motivated this year to play good defense... $$$$. Once he gets paid, can you count on him bringing in the same defensive intensity? I don't know. Especially looking at his past year with both the Rockets and Pacers.
On top of his mediocre at best defense, on offense, he likes to play high-tempo. This doesn't suit Cousins at all. Lawson isn't effective in a half-court offense. He can't shoot 3s anymore. He constantly gets blocked under the rim. He's a good passer, but not a good playmaker imo. A good playmaker is someone like Rondo.
I really hope Lawson wouldn't be the reason preventing us from pursuing someone like CoJo who's 4 years younger on a cheap contract. I think Lawson is overrated. He provides bench spark, but he's not a starting PG anymore. He doesn't have the scoring ability nor defensive ability to be a starting PG. Lawson's stats from Denver are inflated by Karls' high offense.

Lawson in my opinion is going to be an excellent pg off the bench for us or someone else next season.

You get a guy or two who can spread the floor, an athletic big he can dish to when he drives or throw lobs too, and he'll flourish.

He's very grateful for this opportunity from what I've heard.

He may be the type of guy thrilled to get a reasonable long term commitment from us after this season and really buy into the Kings family if you ask me.

He's always an option to go small with for a run and gun stretch if need be occasionally as well.

 

[Gilles]

Seems like a lot of people like Lawson, but I'm not a big fan of him. He's never been known as anything except a below-average defender. He's highly motivated this year to play good defense... $$$$. Once he gets paid, can you count on him bringing in the same defensive intensity? I don't know. Especially looking at his past year with both the Rockets and Pacers.
On top of his mediocre at best defense, on offense, he likes to play high-tempo. This doesn't suit Cousins at all. Lawson isn't effective in a half-court offense. He can't shoot 3s anymore. He constantly gets blocked under the rim. He's a good passer, but not a good playmaker imo. A good playmaker is someone like Rondo.
I really hope Lawson wouldn't be the reason preventing us from pursuing someone like CoJo who's 4 years younger on a cheap contract. I think Lawson is overrated. He provides bench spark, but he's not a starting PG anymore. He doesn't have the scoring ability nor defensive ability to be a starting PG. Lawson's stats from Denver are inflated by Karls' high offense.

With abundance of PGs in the League (and looks like 2-3 teams might get their new starting PGs in the upcoming draft) and Ty's rep around the league I don't think, anyone looks at him as a starter. If you evaluate him as a bencher, his defense becomes average among guys, who can actually run offense. And Ty really raises the level of your bench play. Pushing the ball is not a bad thing as long as there's good shot selection.
Outside shooting was rough most of the season, but it started to fall for a couple of weeks before the injury, plus his mid-range looks good.

 

[206Fan]

Lawson in my opinion is going to be an excellent pg off the bench for us or someone else next season.

You get a guy or two who can spread the floor, an athletic big he can dish to when he drives or throw lobs too, and he'll flourish.

He's very grateful for this opportunity from what I've heard.

He may be the type of guy thrilled to get a reasonable long term commitment from us after this season and really buy into the Kings family if you ask me.

He's always an option to go small with for a run and gun stretch if need be occasionally as well.

With abundance of PGs in the League (and looks like 2-3 teams might get their new starting PGs in the upcoming draft) and Ty's rep around the league I don't think, anyone looks at him as a starter. If you evaluate him as a bencher, his defense becomes average among guys, who can actually run offense. And Ty really raises the level of your bench play. Pushing the ball is not a bad thing as long as there's good shot selection.
Outside shooting was rough most of the season, but it started to fall for a couple of weeks before the injury, plus his mid-range looks good.

Question is, how much does he want in FA? I think the guy is expecting to be PAID, especially with all the big contracts being given out. I have no issue as Lawson being our backup PG, but a few users were saying they'd take Lawson over CoJo. I wouldn't. Joseph is 25, Lawson is 29. Joseph is on a good 7.4/mpy contract until 2019. Lawson is 29 and will be a UFA.
You guys really wouldn't trade Lawson+Ben for CoJo? (what the user above proposed).

I just don't see it. Lawson's 3pt shot is worse than rough. He can't shoot it at all this season. He shoots it at a worse rate than Rondo. He hesitates on every single trigger. These are just the on-court considerations.

I didn't think there would be a team out there waiting to pay Rondo either. He still got 14million. I don't think Lawson will get that much, but I think he'll have a high asking price.

 

[King Baller]

Question is, how much does he want in FA? I think the guy is expecting to be PAID, especially with all the big contracts being given out. I have no issue as Lawson being our backup PG, but a few users were saying they'd take Lawson over CoJo. I wouldn't. Joseph is 25, Lawson is 29. Joseph is on a good 7.4/mpy contract until 2019. Lawson is 29 and will be a UFA.
You guys really wouldn't trade Lawson+Ben for CoJo? (what the user above proposed).

I just don't see it. Lawson's 3pt shot is worse than rough. He can't shoot it at all this season. He shoots it at a worse rate than Rondo. He hesitates on every single trigger. These are just the on-court considerations.

I didn't think there would be a team out there waiting to pay Rondo either. He still got 14million. I don't think Lawson will get that much, but I think he'll have a high asking price.

What position do you have Joseph play? He is not a starting PG. he is a combo guard who plays a bench role on a Playoff team. I like that he is signed to a nice contract until 2019. Lets see if the Kings can get him without giving up Lawson.

 

[Gilles]

2017/18 cap is expected to be lower than previously estimated, so there are much less cap money available, once cap holds are factored in. Don't see anyone giving Lawson more than MLE, so same money as Joseph at most, very likely less as Houston debacle is only year old.

 

[Iced Espresso]

2017/18 cap is expected to be lower than previously estimated, so there are much less cap money available, once cap holds are factored in. Don't see anyone giving Lawson more than MLE, so same money as Joseph at most, very likely less as Houston debacle is only year old.

Maybe 6-7 million per with a player option for 2-3 years?

Don't think he'll cost more than that.

Not sure what the minimum will be or even is right now.

 

[ParniValjak]

Maybe 6-7 million per with a player option for 2-3 years?

Don't think he'll cost more than that.

Not sure what the minimum will be or even is right now.

Dude, you cannot be serious. Have a look at the contracts handed out last year to players that are not as good as Ty. I mean Tolliver got $8 million and you think Lawson will get less?

 

[New Era]

Dude, you cannot be serious. Have a look at the contracts handed out last year to players that are not as good as Ty. I mean Tolliver got $8 million and you think Lawson will get less?

 

[bajaden]

Seems like a lot of people like Lawson, but I'm not a big fan of him. He's never been known as anything except a below-average defender. He's highly motivated this year to play good defense... $$$$. Once he gets paid, can you count on him bringing in the same defensive intensity? I don't know. Especially looking at his past year with both the Rockets and Pacers.
On top of his mediocre at best defense, on offense, he likes to play high-tempo. This doesn't suit Cousins at all. Lawson isn't effective in a half-court offense. He can't shoot 3s anymore. He constantly gets blocked under the rim. He's a good passer, but not a good playmaker imo. A good playmaker is someone like Rondo.
I really hope Lawson wouldn't be the reason preventing us from pursuing someone like CoJo who's 4 years younger on a cheap contract. I think Lawson is overrated. He provides bench spark, but he's not a starting PG anymore. He doesn't have the scoring ability nor defensive ability to be a starting PG. Lawson's stats from Denver are inflated by Karls' high offense.

Instead of going on what Lawson has been known for, watch what he's been doing this season. Different coach, and different system. He's been a very consistent defender this season, borne out by the fact that the 2nd unit has been the better defensive unit more often than the 1st unit. As for his three point shooting, if you go on what he shot his first six seasons in the league before his problems, he averaged 37.3% from the three. That's a very respectable average. This season his outside shooting has been inconsistent, but one has to assume that his shot will return along with everything else. Besides, Willie loves him...

 

[dude12]

Ty has been really good off the bench this year......he's taken over games and he's led several different versions of the bench squad. I'd take this guy over Cory Joseph.

 

[The_Jamal]

Seems like a lot of people like Lawson, but I'm not a big fan of him. He's never been known as anything except a below-average defender. He's highly motivated this year to play good defense... $$$$. Once he gets paid, can you count on him bringing in the same defensive intensity? I don't know. Especially looking at his past year with both the Rockets and Pacers.
On top of his mediocre at best defense, on offense, he likes to play high-tempo. This doesn't suit Cousins at all. Lawson isn't effective in a half-court offense. He can't shoot 3s anymore. He constantly gets blocked under the rim. He's a good passer, but not a good playmaker imo. A good playmaker is someone like Rondo.
I really hope Lawson wouldn't be the reason preventing us from pursuing someone like CoJo who's 4 years younger on a cheap contract. I think Lawson is overrated. He provides bench spark, but he's not a starting PG anymore. He doesn't have the scoring ability nor defensive ability to be a starting PG. Lawson's stats from Denver are inflated by Karls' high offense.

Disagree with you on this one here. He's lost some of his offensive game, but he's still a quality playmaker. After a slow start to the year too, he's really picked it up the last 20 games:

23 MPG
10.4 PPG
4.6 APG
2.2 RPG
2.0 Turnovers/game
56.4% TS

The 3-ball thing is far more a result of 2 horrible months of small sample size rather than him completely losing his touch. Here's his 3pt Attempts and % month by month:

12 3PA-- 33%
22 3PA-- 40%
29 3PA-- 20%
22 3PA- 22%
8 3PA- 37%

Granted, he's never been a brilliant shooter, but I'll trust the 5 years previous of him being 33-36% 3pt shooters (as well as 3 months this season) rather than believe in the 29% he is now.

And most importantly, we need to actually build a freaking core and stick with it for more than a season. We can't keep starting at square 1 and expecting 10 new guys to come in and immediately win. Lawson has excelled running the bench and he can be a decent enough stop-gap starter if we need it. I'm not saying 12+mil for him or anything, but I'd be more than fine with a 8-10 mil/season

 

[The_Jamal]

Just noticed, that James Johnson is having one hell of a shooting season (by his standards, of course): .357 on 4.5 attempts per 36 minutes - both career high by a margin. That comes mostly due to .404 on corner 3s. Of course, big caveat is that he did as at PF, not as an SF, so I guess, he gets slower closeouts/more time to gather himself, but still open by 4+ feet shot is now a good one for him.
On top of that you get very strong defense and savvy passing as he has 4.5 assists/3 TOs per 36 (top mark of his career by a margin).
Johnson turns 30 in a few days, but has less than 9k NBA minutes in his legs, and never had any injury problems. Rudy has logged almost 27k to give you an idea.
So if Rudy opts out, is Johnson a viable option as a role-playing starter SF?
FA market for guards/forwards, who can bother elite SFs, is very slim, and there are certainly no good all-around forwards available.

Johnson's move to PF is what's made his career happen in Miami. He's thrived in that spot as the "playmaking big" and really developed the all-around game he teased, but never really tapped into until this year.

You could make some fun combos happen with Boogie-WCS-Johnson-Koufos as the bigs. Lots of good potential there.

 

[The_Jamal]

I really hope we revisit the Rubio deal. ESPECIALLY if they're attaching Shabaaz as "bait" to take him. Rubio's contract is a complete bargain and I really like that he's followed up last year's efficiency numbers with similar production. 53% TS, along with a similar FT rate. I'd really love to see him take control of a team like ours, where he can make actual use of his playmaking and not have to defer to 3 USG monsters that mitigates a lot of what he brings on the offensive end. Possibly more importantly, he's remains one of the top defensive PG's in the game.

Shabazz is a guy I'd keep too; he's been a sneaky great scorer the last couple years that could easily break-out if someone gave him 30+ MPG. Assuming the Wolves would take someone like Collison-Afflalo-(add a young guy as sweetner?) you'd really start to be developing an actual core along with the Boogie extension

Rubio || Lawson (3yr 27 mil?)
Temple || Malachi || Bogdan
Shabazz (4yr 40 mil range? Probably could snag for cheaper with all the names in this FA class)
WCS || Tolliver || Skal
Boogie || Koufos || Papa

 

[ParniValjak]

I really hope we revisit the Rubio deal. ESPECIALLY if they're attaching Shabaaz as "bait" to take him. Rubio's contract is a complete bargain and I really like that he's followed up last year's efficiency numbers with similar production. 53% TS, along with a similar FT rate. I'd really love to see him take control of a team like ours, where he can make actual use of his playmaking and not have to defer to 3 USG monsters that mitigates a lot of what he brings on the offensive end. Possibly more importantly, he's remains one of the top defensive PG's in the game.

Shabazz is a guy I'd keep too; he's been a sneaky great scorer the last couple years that could easily break-out if someone gave him 30+ MPG. Assuming the Wolves would take someone like Collison-Afflalo-(add a young guy as sweetner?) you'd really start to be developing an actual core along with the Boogie extension

Rubio || Lawson (3yr 27 mil?)
Temple || Malachi || Bogdan
Shabazz (4yr 40 mil range? Probably could snag for cheaper with all the names in this FA class)
WCS || Tolliver || Skal
Boogie || Koufos || Papa

If you are going to stick with Cousins as we bloody well should, then the PG should be able to shoot well from the long range. Combo of Rubio and Lawson would be shocking from that aspect. Time to get a genuine PG for the long rum for this team and that means someone who can pass well from pick and roll and someone who can spread the floor.

 

[Section 101]

Johnson's move to PF is what's made his career happen in Miami. He's thrived in that spot as the "playmaking big" and really developed the all-around game he teased, but never really tapped into until this year.

You could make some fun combos happen with Boogie-WCS-Johnson-Koufos as the bigs. Lots of good potential there.

Johnson isn't coming back after last time. PR would be bad.

 

[Gilles]

Dude, you cannot be serious. Have a look at the contracts handed out last year to players that are not as good as Ty. I mean Tolliver got $8 million and you think Lawson will get less?

There are already regrets on some of those 2016 contracts. And you can only get, what's out there. So for a guy, who was almost out of the league last summer, I don't think, there's a lot. As of right now only 6 teams are guaranteed to operate in cap space mode: Sixers, Nets, Nuggets, Suns, Celtics, Wolves. Of course, there are options and non-guarantees, but quite a few options are for players, who expect increases. Don't see anything above MLE ($8.4m) available, and since MLE must be at least 3years, I expect most of that money being non-guaranteed.

Johnson's move to PF is what's made his career happen in Miami. He's thrived in that spot as the "playmaking big" and really developed the all-around game he teased, but never really tapped into until this year.

You could make some fun combos happen with Boogie-WCS-Johnson-Koufos as the bigs. Lots of good potential there.

Johnson was fine in Toronto at SF on both ends, especially when he was allowed to make plays: off the ball players, who can't shoot, can only do so much to not hurt their team offensively, especially when they share the floor with Bismack Biyombo. This year results suggest he might finally be able to shoot, which is often the case with ballhandlers, who were bricklayers early in their careers. Plus Kings could use some additional ballhandling. Positional versatility of filling both forward positions is a nice bonus.

Johnson isn't coming back after last time. PR would be bad.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2014/12/3/7325551/James-Johnson-reflects-on-Sacramento
Those weren't even PDA times, so you could suggest, that Vivek was part of the problem. His year was during Vodka brothers.

P.S. Reading commentary on Detroit struggles, it looks like Pistons are really missing Tolliver in the locker room. I'm almost sure, Kings should keep him, now that he looks decent off the bench.

 

[jcwkings]

James Johnson has benefited from the shift in play from the league to mobile 4's. When he was here he exclusively played SF. He's got a little Draymond Green in him in that he can guard 1-5.

 

[The Hammer]

I really hope we revisit the Rubio deal. ESPECIALLY if they're attaching Shabaaz as "bait" to take him. Rubio's contract is a complete bargain and I really like that he's followed up last year's efficiency numbers with similar production. 53% TS, along with a similar FT rate. I'd really love to see him take control of a team like ours, where he can make actual use of his playmaking and not have to defer to 3 USG monsters that mitigates a lot of what he brings on the offensive end. Possibly more importantly, he's remains one of the top defensive PG's in the game.

Shabazz is a guy I'd keep too; he's been a sneaky great scorer the last couple years that could easily break-out if someone gave him 30+ MPG. Assuming the Wolves would take someone like Collison-Afflalo-(add a young guy as sweetner?) you'd really start to be developing an actual core along with the Boogie extension

Rubio || Lawson (3yr 27 mil?)
Temple || Malachi || Bogdan
Shabazz (4yr 40 mil range? Probably could snag for cheaper with all the names in this FA class)
WCS || Tolliver || Skal
Boogie || Koufos || Papa

Rubio is the wrong fit with Cousins as a new breed playmaker. We have a player you can't find a model for. We need to think in terms of what we actually see, not what has worked in the past. Cousins will average more than 6 assts a game next year. That is insane. We need at LEAST three shooters on the floor. This is one reason why Ben's recent development is so encouraging. To have a +40% 3pt shooter at the 2 would be amazing. At this point it's looking possible he could be even higher. Like Korver numbers. But I digress.

Give me Beverly over Rubio. Beverly is perfect for this team.

 

[The_Jamal]

Rubio is the wrong fit with Cousins as a new breed playmaker. We have a player you can't find a model for. We need to think in terms of what we actually see, not what has worked in the past. Cousins will average more than 6 assts a game next year. That is insane. We need at LEAST three shooters on the floor. This is one reason why Ben's recent development is so encouraging. To have a +40% 3pt shooter at the 2 would be amazing. At this point it's looking possible he could be even higher. Like Korver numbers. But I digress.

Give me Beverly over Rubio. Beverly is perfect for this team.

Too bad we nev... oh wait we chose to go with Rondo over him. Were you clamoring for him then?

And why is a great defensive, good rebounding, great playmaking PG who gets to the FT line at well above average rate on average efficiency a bad fit with Cousins? "Too much playmaking" isn't a thing; you can't have enough of it. Especially with our core where we have a lot of guys who struggle to create for themselves. Having a quality ball-distributor to take some burden of Cousins is one of the teams biggest weakness.

The one thing Rondo did really well was find open looks for guys who couldn't create for themselves. The issue was his efficiency killed any benefit his passing gave and he's one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league. Rubio brings that same level of passing with elite defense and average efficiency

 

[The_Jamal]

If you are going to stick with Cousins as we bloody well should, then the PG should be able to shoot well from the long range. Combo of Rubio and Lawson would be shocking from that aspect. Time to get a genuine PG for the long rum for this team and that means someone who can pass well from pick and roll and someone who can spread the floor.

why? You do know 3 (4 with Boogie) other positions can space the floor? Also Spacing isn't synonymous with only 3pt shooting. Rubio creates space by collapsing the defense and getting other guys better looks.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Dude, you cannot be serious. Have a look at the contracts handed out last year to players that are not as good as Ty. I mean Tolliver got $8 million and you think Lawson will get less?

How much did he sign for this season?

$1,315,448

I don't think very many people are going to invest much in him in a multi year deal. A single year deal perhaps. But I think he's going to be cheap.

 

[dude12]

Steve Kyler talking on his timeline on twitter he thinks Derrick Rose would be an answer for Sac at PG and NY likes guys like WCS. Thinks Kings need to obtain guys where they can retain Bird rights.

I believe this is just his opinion and not going on anything he's heard.

All that being said, I don't see it involving WCS. Not so sure I'd want Rose at this point in his career, haven't watched him much this year to be fair but....I don't know that he's an answer.

 

[hrdboild]

Too bad we nev... oh wait we chose to go with Rondo over him. Were you clamoring for him then?

And why is a great defensive, good rebounding, great playmaking PG who gets to the FT line at well above average rate on average efficiency a bad fit with Cousins? "Too much playmaking" isn't a thing; you can't have enough of it. Especially with our core where we have a lot of guys who struggle to create for themselves. Having a quality ball-distributor to take some burden of Cousins is one of the teams biggest weakness.

The one thing Rondo did really well was find open looks for guys who couldn't create for themselves. The issue was his efficiency killed any benefit his passing gave and he's one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league. Rubio brings that same level of passing with elite defense and average efficiency

Vlade didn't choose Rondo over Beverly. It was announced that Patrick Beverly would re-sign with Houston on June 30th and the report is that we were the runner up. The one year deal with Rondo only came after we missed out on Beverly.

I don't have a problem with Rubio, though he wouldn't be my first choice. Cousins shooting the longball now gives us a lot of options in the backcourt positions. You probably want at least two shooters in the lineup for him to pass to but I don't think it matters much if they're guards or wings. The bigger issue to consider is whether they can defend their position and play up on switches as well. Darren has been lights out on threes for us though (around 40% during his three seasons here) so if we're moving on from him next season we'd better be making that up somewhere else.

 

[The Hammer]

Too bad we nev... oh wait we chose to go with Rondo over him. Were you clamoring for him then?

And why is a great defensive, good rebounding, great playmaking PG who gets to the FT line at well above average rate on average efficiency a bad fit with Cousins? "Too much playmaking" isn't a thing; you can't have enough of it. Especially with our core where we have a lot of guys who struggle to create for themselves. Having a quality ball-distributor to take some burden of Cousins is one of the teams biggest weakness.

The one thing Rondo did really well was find open looks for guys who couldn't create for themselves. The issue was his efficiency killed any benefit his passing gave and he's one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league. Rubio brings that same level of passing with elite defense and average efficiency

A better fit would be a knock down 3pt shooter.

 

[Geoff]

What's up with that whack story of Orlando turning down a trade offer for Cousins?

 

[upinsmoke]

What's up with that whack story of Orlando turning down a trade offer for Cousins?

Non sense.

 

[Gilles]

What's up with that whack story of Orlando turning down a trade offer for Cousins?

Some guy needed few thousand clicks to keep his ad contracts.

 

[NewArena]

Really hoping these cousins trade rumors are a load of crap. It would break my heart after he's just publicly stated how much he wants to be here

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

It's a legit source reporting that we are engaging in Boogie trade talks -

Adrian Wojnarowski: Sacramento has been engaging in trade talks on All-Star center DeMarcus Cousins in recent days, league sources tell @TheVertical.

 

[Bricklayer]

no need for a trade, we just have to wait for the Chinese season to be up and we can fix our guardline:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...-in-chinese-league-game/ar-AAn6STC?li=BBnbfcL