2017 Team Discussion and Possible Trades

[Blob]

I was looking at what the other reportedly interested teams can offer. I am sure I overlooked some scenarios but this is what I came up with:

DEN: Jamal Murray and Kenneth Faried for Millsap (Projected Odds of Happening: 0%)

Murray is more than the Nuggets want to give up and Faried is owed 13M and 14M after this year. But Faried would have to be included for salary purposes. I don't see other ways to get it done unless Nuggets include Gallo or Chandler. I just don't see a lot of ways for the Nuggets and Hawks to make a deal that works for both sides.

NOP: Jrue Holiday (or Tyreke) and Alex Ajinca and 2017 #1 pick for Millsap (Projected Odds: 5%)

Holiday and Tyreke are expiring. Ajinca is serviceable back-up but I'd rather take a flyer on Willie if I were the Hawks. The only young player the Pelicans have on their roster the Hawks would want is Buddy Hield, and the Pelicans are not trading him. The competition here amounts to an expiring, a back-up center and a 2017 #1 pick. The Pelicans pick would be the highest pick the Hawks are likely to get. So if they have their sights set on pending draft, this trade may hold some appeal.

TOR: Corey Joseph Patrick Patterson and Jared Sullinger (and #1 pick?) for Paul Millsap (Projected Odds: 15%)

Patterson and Sullinger are expiring. Corey Joseph is a good PG who signed for 3/ 23 last summer. The Raptors could also include a future #1. If I am the Hawks, Joseph, a 2017 #1 pick and a couple of expiring is pretty good. That's a lot to give up for the Raptors unless they are confident they can re-sign him, but this could work for both teams. The Hawks preference to trade Millsap to the West.

EDIT: After reviewing this, I think the Hawks may want more, given the 2017 #1 pick will be low 20s. They would likely ask for a 2019 #1 pick too, and which point the Raptors would balk.

SAC: Rudy Gay and Willie Cauley-Stein for Paul Millsap (Projected Odds: 100% )

Willie needs to play in an uptempo system. That's not going to happen here as long as Joerger is around. If the Hawks plan to be a running team, maybe Willie can find a home there. I don't see where the Hawks or any team would have any interest in Ben. I just don't see it. So although both Ben and Willie have played B-A-D underlined and bolded, I think Willie has some value while Ben has none.

The Hawks may be asking for Malachi or Skal or both, and Vlade would rightfully be reluctant to include either of these two. He conceded too much (2019 unprotected to 76ers) in deal with Hinkie, and the fear among Kings fans is he would do the same again for a player who can walk in 4 months. I don't think he should include Richardson, Skal or Papa, for that matter. But I think if he has to surrender Papa to get it done, then....

Would Hawks do expiring who they could flip (Gay), Willie and Papa for Millsap? Even though they probably don't want two centers, a team in rebuild mode is in asset acquisition mode, so adding Papa and Willie and Gay (to flip to OKC or Clippers?) would be a nice haul.

The new CBA, increasing the likelihood Boogie will stay a King for life, diminishes the value of Papa, whom when drafted I think was a contingent plan if Boogie was traded or gave indication he would not resign. So after this quick analysis, I think Kings and Raptors have the edge on Millsap. There's urgency for the Kings compared to Raptors since the Raptors seeding is secure (currently 2nd in East) while the Kings status is tenuous at best. If the Kings are going to make this deal it needs to happen fast. The sooner he is added, the sooner he becomes acclimated for playoff push. If trade talk gets dragged out, then there becomes a point when making the trade becomes pointless or self sabotaging, that is, presuming the losses continue to mount without him.

 

[KingMilz]

I'd rather just wait till next season keep our pick and sign Taj Gibson who's similar age (not as good as Sap) or JayMchel Green.

Getting Millsap pretty much means we lose a top 10 pick and I'm not sure if him being a FA is worth Rudy/WCS/filler/top 10 pick

 

[CyKings]

No, this trade isn't possible next season...

Care to elaborate?

it doesn't work on trade machine. Rockets need to cut salary

 

[biltalent]

My attempt at a Millsap trade...

ATL Gets: Cameron Payne, Willie Cauley-Stein, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Nick Collison, Corey Brewer, 2017 DEN 2nd, & 2017 POR 2nd (waive one of their exprings)
ATL Gives: Paul Millsap, Thabo Sefolosha, & Mike Muscala

HOU Gets: Kosta Koufos & Anthony Morrow
HOU Gives: Corey Brewer, Kyle Wiltjer, 2017 DEN 2nd, & 2017 POR 2nd

OKC Gets: Rudy Gay & Kyle Wiltjer
OKC Gives: Cameron Payne, Nick Collison, & Anthony Morrow

SAC Gets: Paul Millsap, Thabo Sefolosha, & Mike Muscala
SAC Gives: Rudy Gay, Willie Cauley-Stein, Bogdan Bogdanovic, & Kosta Koufos


I like the idea of moving both Bogdanovic & Koufos in a deal for Millsap for a couple reasons. The first reason being that with Cousins & Millsap on the roster, ideally you'd like to pick up a backup big that can play both PF & C to complement both of them. Koufos is solid, but our double C lineups have cost us this year, and I would prefer not to see them going forward. Moving him frees up a spot and more cap space to acquire that player next offseason.

Moving Bogdanovic instead of Rcihardson, Labissiere, or Papagiannis makes a lot more sense if we're going to be handing out a big contract to Millsap simply for cap reasons. Bogdanovic isn't going to be on the rookie scale next year, so he's likely to cut into our cap space limiting our potential to sign other veterans next year. Richardson seems to be progressing well and will be making only $1.2 mil next year. We also have Temple & Afflalo (if he proves his worth the rest of the year). I'd rather not have $25-28 mil tied up between Temple, Afflalo, & Bogdanovic next year. I'd rather use that cap space elsewhere.

PG - Collison / Lawson
SG - Temple / Afflalo / Richardson / McLemore
SF - Sefolosha / Casspi / Barnes
PF - Millsap / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Muscala / Papagiannis

That would leave us with ~$57 mil in cap space if Barnes opts in next year (~$63 mil if Barnes opts out) with Temple, Richardson, Barnes, Labissiere, Cousins, & Papagiannis under contract (Afflalo & Tolliver are waived in these calculations).


4 team trades are usually very rare so the Brewer/Koufos portion of it would probably need to be scratched out.

I like the idea of getting a third team involved to take Gay. Another possibilty would be talking to the Magic and get them to send Green + Hezonja to Atlanta. Add WCS + Ben and see how far that gets you. If necessary add Skal/PapaG.

 

[Blob]

Here's the trade we should make

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hnby739:

Three team deal with Hawks and OKC lands us Payne and Millsap.

This deal also works with Payne going to the Hawks and excluding Ben, which is obviously what the Hawks would prefer.

 

[twslam07]

Butler trade doesn't work. You can't combine players you acquire in a trade with other players in a second trade for 2 months.

Read this about 3-4 times before suggesting trades. www.cbafaq.com/

Good thing that's not what's happening. The Butler trade is made on draft day if we keep our 1st.

Try reading my posts 3-4 times before replying.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

put the weed down

 

[biltalent]

Here's the trade we should make

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hnby739:

Three team deal with Hawks and OKC lands us Payne and Millsap.

This deal also works with Payne going to the Hawks and excluding Ben, which is obviously what the Hawks would prefer.

Getting both would be soo good as Millsap would really decrease our chances of signing any PG in the future.

 

[twslam07]

it doesn't work on trade machine. Rockets need to cut salary

It was to my understanding that it would need to be within 150% + $100K, but trade machine is using just a $5 mil range. I think the 150% + $100K may only be for trades below $9.8 mil. Thanks!

 

[steelevt]

Here's the trade we should make

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hnby739:

Three team deal with Hawks and OKC lands us Payne and Millsap.

This deal also works with Payne going to the Hawks and excluding Ben, which is obviously what the Hawks would prefer.

As much as I like that trade, I don't see atl going for it. But maybe if we put in collison instead of Ben and papa g it's more enticing. They get a backup for Schroeder and a young asset in wcs. But I guess it depends if they also see Ben and papa g as young assets.

 

[Section 101]

Good thing that's not what's happening. The Butler trade is made on draft day if we keep our 1st.

Try reading my posts 3-4 times before replying.

So your basing the future on whether the Kings keep their pick and even if Butler is still on the Bulls in 6 months. Great plan.

I don't even have to read it at this point because I already know it won't pass a trade checker.

 

[twslam07]

So your basing the future on whether the Kings keep their pick and even if Butler is still on the Bulls in 6 months. Great plan.

I don't even have to read it at this point because I already know it won't pass a trade checker.

Who said I would pursue that plan? It was a fun little scenario I threw out there.

Don't be upset because you misinterpreted my post. It happens. Man up and move on.

 

[itzcoatl]

Paul Millsap would be amazing on the team but there is a very real risk it would be a half season rental. Is Millsap more likely to sign here if he plays here for a half season? Who knows? Maybe Boogie and Joerger make a convincing case. Ibaka is a FA next year too and I'd like to make a run at him if possible.

 

[twslam07]

Here's the trade we should make

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hnby739:

Three team deal with Hawks and OKC lands us Payne and Millsap.

This deal also works with Payne going to the Hawks and excluding Ben, which is obviously what the Hawks would prefer.

Not bad. I'd say we come out ahead on that trade. I think something like this would be closer:

ATL Gets: Willie Cauley-Stein, Georgios Papagiannis, Alex Abrines, Bogdan Bogdanovic, & Ben McLemore
ATL Gives: Paul Millsap & Thabo Sefolosha

OKC Gets: Rudy Gay & Thabo Sefolosha
OKC Gives: Cameron Payne, Alex Abrines, & Anthony Morrow

SAC Gets: Paul Millsap, Cameron Payne, & Anthony Morrow
SAC Gives: Rudy Gay, Willie Cauley-Stein, Georgios Papagiannis, Bogdan Bogdanovic, & Ben McLemore

We'd have this roster to finish out the year:

PG - Collison / Lawson / Payne
SG - Temple / Afflalo / Richardson
SF - Casspi / Barnes / Morrow
PF - Millsap / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Koufos

That'd leave us with $10.4 mil in cap space next year if we waive Afflalo & Tolliver and if Barnes picks up his player option ($16.3 mil if Barnes opts out). If we dumped Koufos in the offseason for cap space and a 2018/2019 pick as compensation, we'd have $18.3 mil in cap space ($24.1 mil if Barnes opts out).

If we wanted to maximize our cap space as much as possible next year while still retaining our core guys, we could adjust the trade above and make it a little more "messy."


ATL Gets: Willie Cauley-Stein, Georgios Papagiannis, Alex Abrines, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Arron Afflalo, Anthony Tolliver, & Matt Barnes
ATL Gives: Paul Millsap, Thabo Sefolosha, Tiago Splitter, Khris Humphries, Mike Scott, & Mike Muscala

OKC Gets: Rudy Gay, Thabo Sefolosha, & Ty Lawson
OKC Gives: Cameron Payne, Alex Abrines, & Anthony Morrow

SAC Gets: Paul Millsap, Cameron Payne, Anthony Morrow, Tiago Splitter, Khris Humphries, Mike Scott, & Mike Muscala
SAC Gives: Rudy Gay, Willie Cauley-Stein, Georgios Papagiannis, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Ty Lawson, Arron Afflalo, Anthony Tolliver, & Matt Barnes

That sets us up with this roster to finish out the season:

PG - Collison / Payne
SG - Temple / Richardson / McLemore
SF - Casspi / Morrow
PF - Millsap / Humphries / Scott / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Koufos / Splitter / Muscala

I think the roster above is stronger and more well balanced, but this trade sets us up a little better going into free agency next year. If we don't extend a qualifying offer to McLemore and keep our cap holds on Millsap & Collison, we'd have about $19.8 mil in cap space ($9.4 mil more than in the scenario above). If we dumped Koufos in the offseason for cap space and a 2018/2019 pick as compensation, we'd have $27.6 mil in cap space with our roster looking like this:

PG - Collison / Payne
SG - Temple / Richardson
SF -
PF - Millsap / Labissiere
C - Cousins

We could even try making an additional trade with McLemore at the deadline for a bench warmer and late mid to late 2nd round pick to help fill a spot on our bench next year for cheap.

 

[KingMilz]

I would not mind trading for Faried I'm not a big fan of him or his game but a insane energy finishing big next to Cousins on what is now a very decent deal would not be bad at all. With Rudy/WCS (Casspi/Ben/whatever small piece also) being the center pieces with Millsap going to the Nuggets and Faried (with maybe Chandler big if but or Barton) coming to Sac town.

We really have no consistent finishers above the rim seeing KK/WCS miss all those bunnies with Faried those are all energy raising dunks.

At least with Faried/Chandler barring serious injury we know they are here for the next 2-3 seasons.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I would not mind trading for Faried I'm not a big fan of him or his game but a insane energy finishing big next to Cousins on what is now a very decent deal would not be bad at all. With Rudy/WCS (Casspi/Ben/whatever small piece also) being the center pieces with Millsap going to the Nuggets and Faried (with maybe Chandler big if but or Barton) coming to Sac town.

We really have no consistent finishers above the rim seeing KK/WCS miss all those bunnies with Faried those are all energy raising dunks.

At least with Faried/Chandler barring serious injury we know they are here for the next 2-3 seasons.

Kosta is shooting 58% from the field this season. Faried shoots 52%. Kosta shoots a higher percentage at the rim and on hookshots.
I know watching him can be frustrating, but Kosta isn't a bad finisher per se. What we really lack are guys able to create more alley oop and other easy scenarios for our finishers.
Faried is another player, who has never reached his full potential. He is a high energy guy, but how can such a guy with this kind of phyiscal gifts not be an upper echolon defender?
And to really make the next step, we need someone with a jumpshot at the 4. I rather wait for the offseason and throw some money at an athletic big wing or stretch 4 like Jamychal Green or whatever.

Guys like Chandler or Barton would be great. I also gladly swap KK with Nurkic, if the Nuggets are afraid he might bolt as a backup (ok pretty unrealistic, but I like this kid a lot).
But Millsap is just very unrealistic, given, that we aren't contending anytime soon and he expressed his desire to stay in Atlanta.

 

[Tetsujin]

Kosta is shooting 58% from the field this season. Faried shoots 52%. Kosta shoots a higher percentage at the rim and on hookshots.
I know watching him can be frustrating, but Kosta isn't a bad finisher per se. What we really lack are guys able to create more alley oop and other easy scenarios for our finishers.
Faried is another player, who has never reached his full potential. He is a high energy guy, but how can such a guy with this kind of phyiscal gifts not be an upper echolon defender?
And to really make the next step, we need someone with a jumpshot at the 4. I rather wait for the offseason and throw some money at an athletic big wing or stretch 4 like Jamychal Green or whatever.

Guys like Chandler or Barton would be great. I also gladly swap KK with Nurkic, if the Nuggets are afraid he might bolt as a backup (ok pretty unrealistic, but I like this kid a lot).
But Millsap is just very unrealistic, given, that we aren't contending anytime soon and he expressed his desire to stay in Atlanta.

Because he's super duper undersized?

 

[KingMilz]

Kosta is shooting 58% from the field this season. Faried shoots 52%. Kosta shoots a higher percentage at the rim and on hookshots.
I know watching him can be frustrating, but Kosta isn't a bad finisher per se. What we really lack are guys able to create more alley oop and other easy scenarios for our finishers.
Faried is another player, who has never reached his full potential. He is a high energy guy, but how can such a guy with this kind of phyiscal gifts not be an upper echolon defender?
And to really make the next step, we need someone with a jumpshot at the 4. I rather wait for the offseason and throw some money at an athletic big wing or stretch 4 like Jamychal Green or whatever.

Guys like Chandler or Barton would be great. I also gladly swap KK with Nurkic, if the Nuggets are afraid he might bolt as a backup (ok pretty unrealistic, but I like this kid a lot).
But Millsap is just very unrealistic, given, that we aren't contending anytime soon and he expressed his desire to stay in Atlanta.

On revision of your post I completely agree and I no longer want Faried

 

[KingsFanGER]

Because he's super duper undersized?

I simply don't care much about size anymore. Faried can jump straight out of the building. The only situation, where he is truly at an disadvantage is in the post and I simply don't care about post ups anymore. There are a handful of guys, who can beat you with post ups and most of the time the danger comes mostly from 3.
What concerns me more is, that Faried, despite being crazy athletic, is not a good defender in pick&roll and close out situations. And that has nothing to do with size, but more with awareness on his part.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/04/21/nuggets-end-of-season-evaluations-2016-kenneth-faried/

 

[KingsFanGER]

On revision of your post I completely agree and I no longer want Faried

On second thought - Faried is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league and he is quick enough to get back on D in time, even when he goes for the offensive board.
That's a very valuable skill, especially when DMC becomes that perimeter oriented on offense.
Is it enough to trade for him? I don't know, but he would certainly help us in that area.

 

[c-webb1s#1]

Follow

Zach KleinVerified account‏@ZachKleinWSB
Trusted NBA league source on Korver being shipped to Cleveland.... "Brother.. this is just first domino to fall."

 

[c-webb1s#1]

• Cavs trade their 2017 1st rounder to the Blazers to acquire back their 2018 1st rounder.

• Cavs trade Mo Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr and their protected 2019 1st rounder to the Hawks for Kyle Korver.

OR

• Cavs send their protected 2019 1st rounder to the Hawks and send Mike Dunleavy Jr to a third team. Hawks send Kyle Korver to the Cavs. Cavs use some of the Anderson Varejao trade exception. Then the Cavs send Mo Williams to the Hawks, generating a new trade exception.

• Cavs waive Jordan McRae
  
  
• Kings, Nuggets and Raptors are fielding offers for Paul Millsap. Kings want him bad. Raptors want him even more but can't find a package. The Nuggets have young players and picks to send.
  

 

[KingMilz]

On second thought - Faried is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league and he is quick enough to get back on D in time, even when he goes for the offensive board.
That's a very valuable skill, especially when DMC becomes that perimeter oriented on offense.
Is it enough to trade for him? I don't know, but he would certainly help us in that area.

I would only want him if we an snag Chandler or Barton as well but it's hard to see Denver giving all that up 0r even Thabo from ATL we need a SF that can defend or score (in the case of Barton).

I wonder if the Hawks will trade Dwight as well at this point I mean I don't get why they signed him if being 4 games over 500. they blow it up. Also Bazemore has been TERRIBLE this year I wonder if at 27 he might be on the block as well. If they got full blow up mode they go Haradway/Bembry and Prince on the wings so they could very well look to move Baze as well.

I would actually offer them Rudy/WCS for Baze/Thabo straight up

 

[itzcoatl]

I wonder if the Hawks will trade Dwight as well at this point I mean I don't get why they signed him if being 4 games over 500. they blow it up.

That is a very interesting thought. If the hawks are blowing it up D12 has got to be on the block as well. That'd be an interesting pair with Boogie.

 

[kingjatt]

The Hawks are trying to stop being a middling team while we are trying to become one so an overpay for a aging soon to be FA in Milsap makes sense for us. With so much money and assets (given up for Milsap) tied into the frontcourt I still dont see a logical path to improving our ailing backcourt play.

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

Do you guys really think we need to/should include Gay in a Millsap deal?

We would have to give them WCS, but couldn't McLemore be enough to get the deal done? They want to go younger, and they get someone to try out as a Korver replacement. With Gay, they just get a contract to dump.

Plus, I am hesitant to trade Gay while Dragic is available since Miami supposedly wants him.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It was to my understanding that it would need to be within 150% + $100K, but trade machine is using just a $5 mil range. I think the 150% + $100K may only be for trades below $9.8 mil. Thanks!

Yes, that's correct. From $9.8M-$19.6M outgoing, the max incoming is outgoing + $5M. Above $19.6M outgoing, the max incoming is 125% + $100K.

For taxpaying teams, the limit is 125% + $100K no matter what the salary level.

 

[upinsmoke]

It wouldn't surprise me if Dwight Howard is the next domino to fall. Probably to Boston or Toronto. Then Atlanta would have more interest in a deal centered around WCS and Pappa.

 

[KingsFan80]

Not bad. I'd say we come out ahead on that trade. I think something like this would be closer:

ATL Gets: Willie Cauley-Stein, Georgios Papagiannis, Alex Abrines, Bogdan Bogdanovic, & Ben McLemore
ATL Gives: Paul Millsap & Thabo Sefolosha

OKC Gets: Rudy Gay & Thabo Sefolosha
OKC Gives: Cameron Payne, Alex Abrines, & Anthony Morrow

SAC Gets: Paul Millsap, Cameron Payne, & Anthony Morrow
SAC Gives: Rudy Gay, Willie Cauley-Stein, Georgios Papagiannis, Bogdan Bogdanovic, & Ben McLemore

We'd have this roster to finish out the year:

PG - Collison / Lawson / Payne
SG - Temple / Afflalo / Richardson
SF - Casspi / Barnes / Morrow
PF - Millsap / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Koufos

That'd leave us with $10.4 mil in cap space next year if we waive Afflalo & Tolliver and if Barnes picks up his player option ($16.3 mil if Barnes opts out). If we dumped Koufos in the offseason for cap space and a 2018/2019 pick as compensation, we'd have $18.3 mil in cap space ($24.1 mil if Barnes opts out).

If we wanted to maximize our cap space as much as possible next year while still retaining our core guys, we could adjust the trade above and make it a little more "messy."


ATL Gets: Willie Cauley-Stein, Georgios Papagiannis, Alex Abrines, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Arron Afflalo, Anthony Tolliver, & Matt Barnes
ATL Gives: Paul Millsap, Thabo Sefolosha, Tiago Splitter, Khris Humphries, Mike Scott, & Mike Muscala

OKC Gets: Rudy Gay, Thabo Sefolosha, & Ty Lawson
OKC Gives: Cameron Payne, Alex Abrines, & Anthony Morrow

SAC Gets: Paul Millsap, Cameron Payne, Anthony Morrow, Tiago Splitter, Khris Humphries, Mike Scott, & Mike Muscala
SAC Gives: Rudy Gay, Willie Cauley-Stein, Georgios Papagiannis, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Ty Lawson, Arron Afflalo, Anthony Tolliver, & Matt Barnes

That sets us up with this roster to finish out the season:

PG - Collison / Payne
SG - Temple / Richardson / McLemore
SF - Casspi / Morrow
PF - Millsap / Humphries / Scott / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Koufos / Splitter / Muscala

I think the roster above is stronger and more well balanced, but this trade sets us up a little better going into free agency next year. If we don't extend a qualifying offer to McLemore and keep our cap holds on Millsap & Collison, we'd have about $19.8 mil in cap space ($9.4 mil more than in the scenario above). If we dumped Koufos in the offseason for cap space and a 2018/2019 pick as compensation, we'd have $27.6 mil in cap space with our roster looking like this:

PG - Collison / Payne
SG - Temple / Richardson
SF -
PF - Millsap / Labissiere
C - Cousins

We could even try making an additional trade with McLemore at the deadline for a bench warmer and late mid to late 2nd round pick to help fill a spot on our bench next year for cheap.

Are three team trades like this really realistic?

 

[upinsmoke]

I would only want him if we an snag Chandler or Barton as well but it's hard to see Denver giving all that up 0r even Thabo from ATL we need a SF that can defend or score (in the case of Barton).

I wonder if the Hawks will trade Dwight as well at this point I mean I don't get why they signed him if being 4 games over 500. they blow it up. Also Bazemore has been TERRIBLE this year I wonder if at 27 he might be on the block as well. If they got full blow up mode they go Haradway/Bembry and Prince on the wings so they could very well look to move Baze as well.

I would actually offer them Rudy/WCS for Baze/Thabo straight up

Yes sir. That's a more feasible deal to swing and fits our needs better.