2017 Team Discussion and Possible Trades
- Thread starter CyKings
- Start date
There are 2 drafted after the 8th spot with a plus EWA.
Malcolm Brogdon, MIL 1.1
Juancho Hernangomez, DEN .2
Drafted 1-7 positive EWA
Jaylen Brown .1
Buddy Hield 0.0
There are no draft picks this year having a positive impact on their teams wins.
Malcolm Brogdon, MIL 1.1
Juancho Hernangomez, DEN .2
Drafted 1-7 positive EWA
Jaylen Brown .1
Buddy Hield 0.0
There are no draft picks this year having a positive impact on their teams wins.
Correct. In a previous post. You know? A post that has nothing to do with the comment you just made?
The point still stands. A team would rather have a young asset that "could" be good one day and is locked up for the next 3.5 years vs. a player who has been bad for 3.5 years and is an expiring. McLemore isn't going to help a contending team this year because when he sees the floor, he hurts the team. So since he can't help now, the player who could help down the road is more valuable. See how that works?
You are just absolutely clueless. You just did it again. What's the reason for this need to try to make assumptions about other poster's opinions? You look down right silly, and it makes your argument look even weaker (if that's even possible). Just stick to what to what I say. I know it must be hard as you have yet to poke any holes in my points thus you ASSIGN me some asinine opinion that I have never said and attack it.
You want to know why SO many people clash with you? It's not the Vlade or Papa bashing, it's the carelessness with how you write and treat others. You bring no substance to table, generalize people, and try to attack others for points they have never even made! Stick to the facts and what's being discussed and maybe just maybe you'll get an ounce of respect around here...
The point still stands. A team would rather have a young asset that "could" be good one day and is locked up for the next 3.5 years vs. a player who has been bad for 3.5 years and is an expiring. McLemore isn't going to help a contending team this year because when he sees the floor, he hurts the team. So since he can't help now, the player who could help down the road is more valuable. See how that works?
You are just absolutely clueless. You just did it again. What's the reason for this need to try to make assumptions about other poster's opinions? You look down right silly, and it makes your argument look even weaker (if that's even possible). Just stick to what to what I say. I know it must be hard as you have yet to poke any holes in my points thus you ASSIGN me some asinine opinion that I have never said and attack it.
You want to know why SO many people clash with you? It's not the Vlade or Papa bashing, it's the carelessness with how you write and treat others. You bring no substance to table, generalize people, and try to attack others for points they have never even made! Stick to the facts and what's being discussed and maybe just maybe you'll get an ounce of respect around here...
Note on resigning Milsap: I'm not sure what he's looking for, but he's historically been about getting paid. He played in Utah to start his career and signed with Atlanta after they had dumped many of their best players. Fame and big city may not mean much to him. He could be looking to be paid or he may want a title run at this point in his career. This is likely his last big contract.
He comes here we offer the max he's staying.
But teams interested named are Kings, Nuggets, 76ers, and Raptors.
I don't think Toronto has enough to get him and I'm bamboozoled as to why Philadelphia is interested.
It will be between us and Denver and it will depend how much Denver is willing to give up.
But if we made it a 3 way
Atlanta: Payne, Ben, WCS, and Skal
OKC: Gay
Sacramento: Milsap, Thabo
But teams interested named are Kings, Nuggets, 76ers, and Raptors.
I don't think Toronto has enough to get him and I'm bamboozoled as to why Philadelphia is interested.
It will be between us and Denver and it will depend how much Denver is willing to give up.
But if we made it a 3 way
Atlanta: Payne, Ben, WCS, and Skal
OKC: Gay
Sacramento: Milsap, Thabo
Butler seems to be able to be had for the right deal again. I don't think we could make a deal for him now, but potentially in the offseason?
Trade #1: Darren Collison, Kosta Koufos, & Omri Casspi for 2017 HOU 1st, Sam Dekker, Tyler Ennis, & Corey Brewer
Trade #2: Rudy Gay & Ty Lawson for Cameron Payne, Nick Collison, & Anthony Morrow (waive McLemore)
Team to finish out the year:
PG - Payne / Ennis
SG - Temple / Afflalo / Morrow / Richardson
SF - Dekker / Brewer / Barnes
PF - Tolliver / Collison / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein / Papagiannis
I have a hard time seeing that team make the playoffs and lose their 1st round pick to the Bulls, so with that in mind...
Butler Trade: 2017 SAC 1st, 2017 HOU 1st, Cameron Payne, Willie Cauley-Stein, Malachi Richardson, & Sam Dekker for Jimmy Butler
Players under contract going into the 2017 offseason:
PG -
SG - Temple / Afflalo (unguranteed) / Bogdanovic
SF - Butler / Brewer / Barnes (player option)
PF - Tolliver (unguranteed) / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
That would leave us with ~$16.5 mil in cap space if we kept everyone. If we waived Afflalo & Tolliver, we'd have ~$32.5 mil in cap space. If we waived Afflalo & Tolliver and Barnes opted out, we'd have ~$38.4 mil in cap space.
Trade #1: Darren Collison, Kosta Koufos, & Omri Casspi for 2017 HOU 1st, Sam Dekker, Tyler Ennis, & Corey Brewer
Trade #2: Rudy Gay & Ty Lawson for Cameron Payne, Nick Collison, & Anthony Morrow (waive McLemore)
Team to finish out the year:
PG - Payne / Ennis
SG - Temple / Afflalo / Morrow / Richardson
SF - Dekker / Brewer / Barnes
PF - Tolliver / Collison / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein / Papagiannis
I have a hard time seeing that team make the playoffs and lose their 1st round pick to the Bulls, so with that in mind...
Butler Trade: 2017 SAC 1st, 2017 HOU 1st, Cameron Payne, Willie Cauley-Stein, Malachi Richardson, & Sam Dekker for Jimmy Butler
Players under contract going into the 2017 offseason:
PG -
SG - Temple / Afflalo (unguranteed) / Bogdanovic
SF - Butler / Brewer / Barnes (player option)
PF - Tolliver (unguranteed) / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
That would leave us with ~$16.5 mil in cap space if we kept everyone. If we waived Afflalo & Tolliver, we'd have ~$32.5 mil in cap space. If we waived Afflalo & Tolliver and Barnes opted out, we'd have ~$38.4 mil in cap space.
I'm very, very, very concerned to trade assets away for anyone who is going to be a FA next year. We have been a nightmare destination for FAs and it's going to take awhile for us to change that image.
By the way, there is not just the risk of losing the assets we trade away for nothing if Millsap walks (Cauley-Stein, Richardson, etc.), but we increase the odds of us losing our 1st round pick next year which means we could also lose that for nothing as well.
By the way, there is not just the risk of losing the assets we trade away for nothing if Millsap walks (Cauley-Stein, Richardson, etc.), but we increase the odds of us losing our 1st round pick next year which means we could also lose that for nothing as well.
To be honest, I think that might be too rich for Millsap, but I'm on the fence about it.
Atlanta wants to move him. We don't need to pluck him away. And he's an expiring next year meaning he could just be a half year rental to whoever trades for him. Giving up Payne, Cauley-Stein, & Skal seems like a lot to part with. What happens if Millsap leaves next offseason? We most likely won't have our 1st round pick next year (because Millsap will make us better) and we'll have these players under contract:
PG -
SG - Temple / Afflalo (unguranteed) / Richardson / Bogdanovic
SF - Barnes (player option)
PF - Tolliver (unguaranteed)
C - Cousins / Koufos / Papagiannis
That's a pretty abysmal future considering how poor we are at attracting any FA talent and with only one 1st round pick to our name the next 3 years (2017 would be the Bulls & 2019 would be the 76ers).
Atlanta wants to move him. We don't need to pluck him away. And he's an expiring next year meaning he could just be a half year rental to whoever trades for him. Giving up Payne, Cauley-Stein, & Skal seems like a lot to part with. What happens if Millsap leaves next offseason? We most likely won't have our 1st round pick next year (because Millsap will make us better) and we'll have these players under contract:
PG -
SG - Temple / Afflalo (unguranteed) / Richardson / Bogdanovic
SF - Barnes (player option)
PF - Tolliver (unguaranteed)
C - Cousins / Koufos / Papagiannis
That's a pretty abysmal future considering how poor we are at attracting any FA talent and with only one 1st round pick to our name the next 3 years (2017 would be the Bulls & 2019 would be the 76ers).
Last edited:
BTW my wildest prediction if the Milsap thing happens is this:
Clippers sweep in to be third team in the Korver deal and take on Rudy Gay in the Milsap trade, giving up a few smaller contracts and a pick.
I'm just putting this out there because I've had a couple of beers and am bored, but it's a crazy possibility.
Clippers sweep in to be third team in the Korver deal and take on Rudy Gay in the Milsap trade, giving up a few smaller contracts and a pick.
I'm just putting this out there because I've had a couple of beers and am bored, but it's a crazy possibility.
My attempt at a Millsap trade...
ATL Gets: Cameron Payne, Willie Cauley-Stein, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Nick Collison, Corey Brewer, 2017 DEN 2nd, & 2017 POR 2nd (waive one of their exprings)
ATL Gives: Paul Millsap, Thabo Sefolosha, & Mike Muscala
HOU Gets: Kosta Koufos & Anthony Morrow
HOU Gives: Corey Brewer, Kyle Wiltjer, 2017 DEN 2nd, & 2017 POR 2nd
OKC Gets: Rudy Gay & Kyle Wiltjer
OKC Gives: Cameron Payne, Nick Collison, & Anthony Morrow
SAC Gets: Paul Millsap, Thabo Sefolosha, & Mike Muscala
SAC Gives: Rudy Gay, Willie Cauley-Stein, Bogdan Bogdanovic, & Kosta Koufos
I like the idea of moving both Bogdanovic & Koufos in a deal for Millsap for a couple reasons. The first reason being that with Cousins & Millsap on the roster, ideally you'd like to pick up a backup big that can play both PF & C to complement both of them. Koufos is solid, but our double C lineups have cost us this year, and I would prefer not to see them going forward. Moving him frees up a spot and more cap space to acquire that player next offseason.
Moving Bogdanovic instead of Rcihardson, Labissiere, or Papagiannis makes a lot more sense if we're going to be handing out a big contract to Millsap simply for cap reasons. Bogdanovic isn't going to be on the rookie scale next year, so he's likely to cut into our cap space limiting our potential to sign other veterans next year. Richardson seems to be progressing well and will be making only $1.2 mil next year. We also have Temple & Afflalo (if he proves his worth the rest of the year). I'd rather not have $25-28 mil tied up between Temple, Afflalo, & Bogdanovic next year. I'd rather use that cap space elsewhere.
PG - Collison / Lawson
SG - Temple / Afflalo / Richardson / McLemore
SF - Sefolosha / Casspi / Barnes
PF - Millsap / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Muscala / Papagiannis
That would leave us with ~$57 mil in cap space if Barnes opts in next year (~$63 mil if Barnes opts out) with Temple, Richardson, Barnes, Labissiere, Cousins, & Papagiannis under contract (Afflalo & Tolliver are waived in these calculations).
4 team trades are usually very rare so the Brewer/Koufos portion of it would probably need to be scratched out.
ATL Gets: Cameron Payne, Willie Cauley-Stein, Bogdan Bogdanovic, Nick Collison, Corey Brewer, 2017 DEN 2nd, & 2017 POR 2nd (waive one of their exprings)
ATL Gives: Paul Millsap, Thabo Sefolosha, & Mike Muscala
HOU Gets: Kosta Koufos & Anthony Morrow
HOU Gives: Corey Brewer, Kyle Wiltjer, 2017 DEN 2nd, & 2017 POR 2nd
OKC Gets: Rudy Gay & Kyle Wiltjer
OKC Gives: Cameron Payne, Nick Collison, & Anthony Morrow
SAC Gets: Paul Millsap, Thabo Sefolosha, & Mike Muscala
SAC Gives: Rudy Gay, Willie Cauley-Stein, Bogdan Bogdanovic, & Kosta Koufos
I like the idea of moving both Bogdanovic & Koufos in a deal for Millsap for a couple reasons. The first reason being that with Cousins & Millsap on the roster, ideally you'd like to pick up a backup big that can play both PF & C to complement both of them. Koufos is solid, but our double C lineups have cost us this year, and I would prefer not to see them going forward. Moving him frees up a spot and more cap space to acquire that player next offseason.
Moving Bogdanovic instead of Rcihardson, Labissiere, or Papagiannis makes a lot more sense if we're going to be handing out a big contract to Millsap simply for cap reasons. Bogdanovic isn't going to be on the rookie scale next year, so he's likely to cut into our cap space limiting our potential to sign other veterans next year. Richardson seems to be progressing well and will be making only $1.2 mil next year. We also have Temple & Afflalo (if he proves his worth the rest of the year). I'd rather not have $25-28 mil tied up between Temple, Afflalo, & Bogdanovic next year. I'd rather use that cap space elsewhere.
PG - Collison / Lawson
SG - Temple / Afflalo / Richardson / McLemore
SF - Sefolosha / Casspi / Barnes
PF - Millsap / Tolliver / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Muscala / Papagiannis
That would leave us with ~$57 mil in cap space if Barnes opts in next year (~$63 mil if Barnes opts out) with Temple, Richardson, Barnes, Labissiere, Cousins, & Papagiannis under contract (Afflalo & Tolliver are waived in these calculations).
4 team trades are usually very rare so the Brewer/Koufos portion of it would probably need to be scratched out.
Yep, I agree. That's why I included the disclaimer at the bottom.
To your other point, McLemore has little to no value & Gay has little to no value to the Hawks if they are trying to rebuild. The only thing they would value in that deal is Cauley-Stein. Hence, you include an additional team that would value Gay and have that team give up something the Hawks would value (Payne in this case).
If our intention is to keep Millsap, we're going to have a lot of money tied up in our starting PF & C (and even more money once we resign Cousins). Considering both Cousins & Millsap are top big men in this league, I don't have an issue with them getting 34-36 mpg each. That leaves 24-28 minutes behind them. That's not a lot. If you want to take a gamble, you sign a vet min PF & C next year, and use Labissiere, Papagiannis, the vet mins, & possibly a SF we sign (stretch 4 mins) as the backup bigs next year. That allows us to focus all of our cap space (after Millsap is retained) on perimeter players. Having Koufos on the books (& Tolliver) adds even more money to our big man payroll and can prevent us from picking up quality perimeter players in FA next year.
Doing the math in my scenario...if we waived Tolliver & Afflalo, Barnes opted out, renounced Sefolosha's bird rights, and did not extend a qualifying offer to McLemore, we'd have about $24 mil in cap space left:
Millsap - $30,108,050 (cap hold)
Cousins - $18,063,850
Collison - $9,935,963 (cap hold)
Temple - $8,000,000
Papagiannis - $2,301,360
Tolliver - $2,000,000 (guaranteed)
Richardson - $1,504,560
Afflalo - $1,500,000 (guaranteed)
Labissiere - $1,242,240
Min Salary Cap Hold #1 - $562,493
Min Salary Cap Hold #2 - $562,493
Min Salary Cap Hold #3 - $562,493
Min Salary Cap Hold #4 - $562,493
Min Salary Cap Hold #5 - $562,493
C. Butler - $517,220 (stretched)
--------------------------------------------------
Total Payroll = $77,985,707
Projected Cap = $102,000,000
Cap Space = $24,014,293
We could potentially use that $24 mil to max (or almost max) a RFA. Caldwell-Pope & Otto Porter are the top RFAs this year. I feel like we have SG covered pretty well with Temple & Richardson, so I'd go after Porter. He's a smart, unselfish player who doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. He would complement Cousins & Millsap very well. If we were to sign him, then we can resign Millsap & Collison (going over the salary cap with our bird rights) and then using any exceptions we might have and vet mins to round out the rotation.
Instead of including Koufos in the original Millsap deal, you could try to make a separate deal for an expiring (or just cap space if we do it during the offseason) and a 2nd rounder or two. Same with McLemore. If we could trade him for an expiring and a 2nd, it would help us better fill out the roster next year with very cheap contracts as we would have plenty of roster spots available.
PG - Collison / Exception, Vet Min, or 2nd Rounder / I. Cousins
SG - Temple / Richardson / Vet min
SF - Porter / Exception, Vet Min, or 2nd Rounder / Vet Min or 2nd Rounder
PF - Millsap / Labissiere / Vet Min or 2nd Rounder
C - Cousins / Papagiannis / Vet Min or 2nd Rounder
To your other point, McLemore has little to no value & Gay has little to no value to the Hawks if they are trying to rebuild. The only thing they would value in that deal is Cauley-Stein. Hence, you include an additional team that would value Gay and have that team give up something the Hawks would value (Payne in this case).
If our intention is to keep Millsap, we're going to have a lot of money tied up in our starting PF & C (and even more money once we resign Cousins). Considering both Cousins & Millsap are top big men in this league, I don't have an issue with them getting 34-36 mpg each. That leaves 24-28 minutes behind them. That's not a lot. If you want to take a gamble, you sign a vet min PF & C next year, and use Labissiere, Papagiannis, the vet mins, & possibly a SF we sign (stretch 4 mins) as the backup bigs next year. That allows us to focus all of our cap space (after Millsap is retained) on perimeter players. Having Koufos on the books (& Tolliver) adds even more money to our big man payroll and can prevent us from picking up quality perimeter players in FA next year.
Doing the math in my scenario...if we waived Tolliver & Afflalo, Barnes opted out, renounced Sefolosha's bird rights, and did not extend a qualifying offer to McLemore, we'd have about $24 mil in cap space left:
Millsap - $30,108,050 (cap hold)
Cousins - $18,063,850
Collison - $9,935,963 (cap hold)
Temple - $8,000,000
Papagiannis - $2,301,360
Tolliver - $2,000,000 (guaranteed)
Richardson - $1,504,560
Afflalo - $1,500,000 (guaranteed)
Labissiere - $1,242,240
Min Salary Cap Hold #1 - $562,493
Min Salary Cap Hold #2 - $562,493
Min Salary Cap Hold #3 - $562,493
Min Salary Cap Hold #4 - $562,493
Min Salary Cap Hold #5 - $562,493
C. Butler - $517,220 (stretched)
--------------------------------------------------
Total Payroll = $77,985,707
Projected Cap = $102,000,000
Cap Space = $24,014,293
We could potentially use that $24 mil to max (or almost max) a RFA. Caldwell-Pope & Otto Porter are the top RFAs this year. I feel like we have SG covered pretty well with Temple & Richardson, so I'd go after Porter. He's a smart, unselfish player who doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. He would complement Cousins & Millsap very well. If we were to sign him, then we can resign Millsap & Collison (going over the salary cap with our bird rights) and then using any exceptions we might have and vet mins to round out the rotation.
Instead of including Koufos in the original Millsap deal, you could try to make a separate deal for an expiring (or just cap space if we do it during the offseason) and a 2nd rounder or two. Same with McLemore. If we could trade him for an expiring and a 2nd, it would help us better fill out the roster next year with very cheap contracts as we would have plenty of roster spots available.
PG - Collison / Exception, Vet Min, or 2nd Rounder / I. Cousins
SG - Temple / Richardson / Vet min
SF - Porter / Exception, Vet Min, or 2nd Rounder / Vet Min or 2nd Rounder
PF - Millsap / Labissiere / Vet Min or 2nd Rounder
C - Cousins / Papagiannis / Vet Min or 2nd Rounder
Last edited:
Butler trade doesn't work. You can't combine players you acquire in a trade with other players in a second trade for 2 months.
Read this about 3-4 times before suggesting trades. www.cbafaq.com/
Read this about 3-4 times before suggesting trades. www.cbafaq.com/
