First Preseason Game v. Lakers 10/4
- Thread starter Suicide King
- Start date
Exactly right. It was clearly obvious the focus wasn't on winning the game otherwise Joerger wouldn't have left 4 rookies on the floor as a huge run was being made by the other team. He was allowing them to get PT and learn.
And that's exactly what he should be doing. The final score of these games do not matter. At all.
And that's exactly what he should be doing. The final score of these games do not matter. At all.
Extremely harsh and overreacting analysis over 1 preseason game:
Papa looked so bad out there. How can anyone be optimistic about Papagiannis? Looked meh overseas. Looked like a complete scrub in Summer League vs DL players. Looked bad vs real NBA benches.
Poeltl is already what we wish Papagiannis will be in 4 years.
Ben. I mean. The only bright side is that he's finally being aggressive? He needs to step up big time. Running around like a chicken on offense. Continues to look lost. If he was a rookie, this game would be ok. But he's not. He's a 4th year player looking like a bust.
Starting offense. Pace was just as fast. Not sure why everyone is praising our offense when it felt like Karl was running the same type of thing. We basically force the offense through Cousins which doesn't seem like a winning recipe...yet.
PGs looked extremely mediocre. Offense was extremely frustrating and I don't feel like we ran any real sets out there. Felt like the game plan was to dump the ball to Cousins in the high post and force him to create.
Defense looked a lot better though. My biggest complaint was that I saw way too much over helping and switching from WCS.
What a terrible preseason game. If it makes us feel better, Ingram looked invisible like our rookies did too.
Papa looked so bad out there. How can anyone be optimistic about Papagiannis? Looked meh overseas. Looked like a complete scrub in Summer League vs DL players. Looked bad vs real NBA benches.
Poeltl is already what we wish Papagiannis will be in 4 years.
Ben. I mean. The only bright side is that he's finally being aggressive? He needs to step up big time. Running around like a chicken on offense. Continues to look lost. If he was a rookie, this game would be ok. But he's not. He's a 4th year player looking like a bust.
Starting offense. Pace was just as fast. Not sure why everyone is praising our offense when it felt like Karl was running the same type of thing. We basically force the offense through Cousins which doesn't seem like a winning recipe...yet.
PGs looked extremely mediocre. Offense was extremely frustrating and I don't feel like we ran any real sets out there. Felt like the game plan was to dump the ball to Cousins in the high post and force him to create.
Defense looked a lot better though. My biggest complaint was that I saw way too much over helping and switching from WCS.
What a terrible preseason game. If it makes us feel better, Ingram looked invisible like our rookies did too.
I did not see the game but recon we have a clearer idea of our starters after this. Barnes might be inserted into the starting 5 instead of Koufus, Lawson vs Collision too early to tell.
I recon Joerger wanted to see what type of 2nd unit he might have and at least today it looked dismal. WCS and Ben???
Its just one pre season game, but the idea of trading Rudy and even Koufus seems less desirable to me now. The rookies should all be seeing plenty of D league, although Malichi might have shown he belongs.
I recon Joerger wanted to see what type of 2nd unit he might have and at least today it looked dismal. WCS and Ben???
Its just one pre season game, but the idea of trading Rudy and even Koufus seems less desirable to me now. The rookies should all be seeing plenty of D league, although Malichi might have shown he belongs.
Maybe give the starters a good run against a team that isn't their own and then allow them some rest. I hear they have been going at it pretty hard in practice.
Not unusual for preseason.
Another reason (which I doubt is why) could be it's easier to coach new sets during practice and limiting their playtime in preseason games helps limit any bad habits or old tendencies they may fall back on. Give them a small taste of more realistic competition then try and fix issues in practice before the next game.
Not unusual for preseason.
Another reason (which I doubt is why) could be it's easier to coach new sets during practice and limiting their playtime in preseason games helps limit any bad habits or old tendencies they may fall back on. Give them a small taste of more realistic competition then try and fix issues in practice before the next game.
The rookies need lots of work. Papa looks like he is lacking in both confidence and skills. Skal needs to be stronger, and Malachi sure isn't afraid to shoot. All three need to spend serious time in Reno. Especially Papa. I liked how coach just let them play. The lessons that need to be learned by these kids are only going to be learned by playing.
The Kings Veterans played really well. Aaron Afflalo had a espcially good game. The offense mostly flowed nicely and reminded me of what Pop runs in SA at times. The defense looked really good also. Now my comments up to this point are directed at the part of the game prior to the end of the third quarter when Joerger turned the game over to the Rookies led by Garrett Temple. Ugh as has been mentioned what did Temple do to deserve this? Once the Rooks took over the Lakers were still playing key rotation guys and continued to do so until the 5 minute mark of the 4th quarter.
So to me the last 20 minutes of the game was nothing more than practice for the Rookies.
So to me the last 20 minutes of the game was nothing more than practice for the Rookies.
Hopefully this game stops any of the trade Koufos threads. Papa isn't even ready for D-League. Let alone playing 15-20mpg in the NBA. The guy is absolutely massive, yet looks like he is made of styrofoam. Just absolutely zero strength. He can't back anyone down that isn't a SG or PG. Every inlet pass to him at the elbow is a near turnover. I know it's early but man....the odds of him being a bust have got to be at an all time high.
McLemore looked a lot better in the 3rd quarter. When he isn't trying to dribble more than 2 steps with the ball, he's not terrible. Spot up shots and shots off screens are his bread and butter at the moment. I cringe anytime he drives into the lane because there's basically an 80% that it's going to be a wild miss or a turnover.
I'm not really feeling the way WCS played. Prancing around out there. His numbers don't look terrible but it just looked like he was gallivanting around out there like a school girl instead of playing hard nosed basketball.
I thought the starters looked solid and should be even better once/if we replace Koufos with WCS or one of the stretch 4's. That should help some of the bench rebounding woes as well with him going back to the 2nd unit.
McLemore looked a lot better in the 3rd quarter. When he isn't trying to dribble more than 2 steps with the ball, he's not terrible. Spot up shots and shots off screens are his bread and butter at the moment. I cringe anytime he drives into the lane because there's basically an 80% that it's going to be a wild miss or a turnover.
I'm not really feeling the way WCS played. Prancing around out there. His numbers don't look terrible but it just looked like he was gallivanting around out there like a school girl instead of playing hard nosed basketball.
I thought the starters looked solid and should be even better once/if we replace Koufos with WCS or one of the stretch 4's. That should help some of the bench rebounding woes as well with him going back to the 2nd unit.
Gay ( B ) -- didn't sparkle like Afflalo, but between the two of them provided enough attacking support of Cuz for us to dominate the starting minutes, and worked on defense to fill the boxscore.
Cousins ( A- ) -- were some miscues and turnovers inside the new offense, but generally stepped right in made everything work, on both ends, without having to spam shots (only 5 in 15 minutes) to do so. Was on pace for a triple double, and when oncourt we were +16 in 15min.
Koufos ( C+ ) -- along with Collison a starter that didn't appear to be productive, missed some more of those easy inside shots, but made a contribution to our big/physical tone while alongside Boogie. When with the benchers showed more of his limitations, and got scored over in the post by Mozgov.
Afflalo ( A ) -- most impressive night for us, as he looked like he had been running this offense for 10 years, worked extremely well with Cuz, used quick posts, and was the starters' lone 3pt weapon. He and Rudy a physical post up pairing on the wings.
Collison ( C ) -- as in the Princeton offenses of old, not being relied on to create much offense, and did not. But did not score any on his own either. Had some ballhandling misadventures, but gave real defensive effort.
Tolliver ( C+ ) -- not there in the numbers, and never will be for this player. Missed his threes, no factor on boards, and Lakers got behind his frontlines too often for alley oops. But especially with the more veteran lineups, had a knack for making the right play and being in the right place that helped grease things.
Lawson ( C+ ) -- again, Lawson might be an awkward fit for an offense which does not feature a ball dominant PG, and he didn't hit his shots. There were flashes of unrewarded creativity though, and his defensive effort was surprising.
Casspi ( C ) -- started off looking good with the main backup unit, providing it with off the ball movement and aggression it wasn't getting from Ben. But as the game went along and the lineups got more random and scrubbier, his forces got more wild until he was a net negative.
Cauley-Stein ( D+ ) -- getting what grade he gets here because he demonstrated some skill operating as a Cousins replacement passing big when Cuz was out. But grade goes no higher, because Willie was fluttering around out there again, never settling in or playing physical, over committing or undercommitting, reacting slowly to action behind him, and generally looking lost or confused again on defense.. Doubt Joerger is impressed.
McLemore ( C ) -- to a large degree it was Ben with a normal Ben 7pts 2reb on 3-10 type shooting night. But it was separated into the long Ben cold shooting/forcing spell for 2 1/2 quarters where he was 0-5 or 0-6, and then a good stretch for about 4-5 minutes of the third before he left, where he began to pop open and hit the shots. Thus renewing the annual Ben watch.
Temple ( D- ) -- only avoiding the F because he was given the nearly impossible job of rustling up a pack of clueless kids, and hit a few little jumpers he created on his own. Otherwise used as a 3rd PG and put up a -40 (!!!) in his 24 minute half-game.
Labissierre ( F-kid) -- the promise of summer league was nowhere to be found in his first preseason game, as he missed his shots, and got outmuscled by the Lakers undertalented but physical backup bigs. Maybe a good thing as a lesson he has to learn. -29 in 15 minutes.
Alexander ( F-kid ) -- popped up as the kiddie SF, and while he did less wrong than some of them, he also was a complete non-factor when he needed to show something to avoid being cut. -24 in 11 minutes.
Papagiannis (F-kid) -- he moves ok for his size, but just helpless out there right now on both ends, and us with him. Highlights, such as they were, were him setting some good screens up top, which is one of his skills, and getting a single strong postup move and dunk over an undersized defender caught on a switch. -30 in 16min.
Richardson ( D- ) -- his -24 in 12min fit in with the rest of the not-ready-for-the-league crew, but Malachi at least hit a few shots, and had a few moments where his length appeared useful. but only a few, as he was mostly ineffective, starstruck, and as confused on defense as the rest of the kiddie crew as the Lakers scored effortlessly against them.
Cousins ( A- ) -- were some miscues and turnovers inside the new offense, but generally stepped right in made everything work, on both ends, without having to spam shots (only 5 in 15 minutes) to do so. Was on pace for a triple double, and when oncourt we were +16 in 15min.
Koufos ( C+ ) -- along with Collison a starter that didn't appear to be productive, missed some more of those easy inside shots, but made a contribution to our big/physical tone while alongside Boogie. When with the benchers showed more of his limitations, and got scored over in the post by Mozgov.
Afflalo ( A ) -- most impressive night for us, as he looked like he had been running this offense for 10 years, worked extremely well with Cuz, used quick posts, and was the starters' lone 3pt weapon. He and Rudy a physical post up pairing on the wings.
Collison ( C ) -- as in the Princeton offenses of old, not being relied on to create much offense, and did not. But did not score any on his own either. Had some ballhandling misadventures, but gave real defensive effort.
Tolliver ( C+ ) -- not there in the numbers, and never will be for this player. Missed his threes, no factor on boards, and Lakers got behind his frontlines too often for alley oops. But especially with the more veteran lineups, had a knack for making the right play and being in the right place that helped grease things.
Lawson ( C+ ) -- again, Lawson might be an awkward fit for an offense which does not feature a ball dominant PG, and he didn't hit his shots. There were flashes of unrewarded creativity though, and his defensive effort was surprising.
Casspi ( C ) -- started off looking good with the main backup unit, providing it with off the ball movement and aggression it wasn't getting from Ben. But as the game went along and the lineups got more random and scrubbier, his forces got more wild until he was a net negative.
Cauley-Stein ( D+ ) -- getting what grade he gets here because he demonstrated some skill operating as a Cousins replacement passing big when Cuz was out. But grade goes no higher, because Willie was fluttering around out there again, never settling in or playing physical, over committing or undercommitting, reacting slowly to action behind him, and generally looking lost or confused again on defense.. Doubt Joerger is impressed.
McLemore ( C ) -- to a large degree it was Ben with a normal Ben 7pts 2reb on 3-10 type shooting night. But it was separated into the long Ben cold shooting/forcing spell for 2 1/2 quarters where he was 0-5 or 0-6, and then a good stretch for about 4-5 minutes of the third before he left, where he began to pop open and hit the shots. Thus renewing the annual Ben watch.
Temple ( D- ) -- only avoiding the F because he was given the nearly impossible job of rustling up a pack of clueless kids, and hit a few little jumpers he created on his own. Otherwise used as a 3rd PG and put up a -40 (!!!) in his 24 minute half-game.
Labissierre ( F-kid) -- the promise of summer league was nowhere to be found in his first preseason game, as he missed his shots, and got outmuscled by the Lakers undertalented but physical backup bigs. Maybe a good thing as a lesson he has to learn. -29 in 15 minutes.
Alexander ( F-kid ) -- popped up as the kiddie SF, and while he did less wrong than some of them, he also was a complete non-factor when he needed to show something to avoid being cut. -24 in 11 minutes.
Papagiannis (F-kid) -- he moves ok for his size, but just helpless out there right now on both ends, and us with him. Highlights, such as they were, were him setting some good screens up top, which is one of his skills, and getting a single strong postup move and dunk over an undersized defender caught on a switch. -30 in 16min.
Richardson ( D- ) -- his -24 in 12min fit in with the rest of the not-ready-for-the-league crew, but Malachi at least hit a few shots, and had a few moments where his length appeared useful. but only a few, as he was mostly ineffective, starstruck, and as confused on defense as the rest of the kiddie crew as the Lakers scored effortlessly against them.
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This offense was about as opposite a George Karl offense as you get. Karl's offense essentially involved 1 player (the PG) initiating everything and going from there. Our offense (at least with the starters because I am not really sure what the bench was doing) as structured now, involves everyone touching the ball and Cousins was usually the one making things happen from up top last night, with generally good results. The first half was extremely encouraging because it really did represent a complete shift in philosophy both with offense and defense. Of course there will be mistakes and miscues from everyone, it's completely brand new to the entire lot of them (minus KK and Barnes). It will take time, but the offense is very very team friendly.
P.S. that backdoor cut by Lawson wearing the #10 jersey almost brought a tear to my eye... reminded me of Bibby and our old offense. He would always do that.
P.S. that backdoor cut by Lawson wearing the #10 jersey almost brought a tear to my eye... reminded me of Bibby and our old offense. He would always do that.
K
Afflalo is way better than Temple/Ben @SG, the fact he can post up/space the floor and wear down other opposition PG's/SGs can make him super valuable I would start him @SG to wear down the other teams best guards to start games and bring Rudy off the bench to play with the 2nd unit cause with no Lawson in the 2nd unit for the first 8 games they need someone to create for them.
The 2nd unit needs a guy who can create AT/WCS/Casspi/Barnes are all good at moving without the ball and Lawson unless he improves back to 2012 is not enough to carry that 2nd unit they need one of Cuz/Rudy/AA with them.
The 2nd unit needs a guy who can create AT/WCS/Casspi/Barnes are all good at moving without the ball and Lawson unless he improves back to 2012 is not enough to carry that 2nd unit they need one of Cuz/Rudy/AA with them.
Kings can't keep going what "if" which really sucks.... The Kings really couldn't afford to whiff on this draft.... I would've been completely fine with keeping the 8th with the 22nd. Oh well. I hope our rookies do good.
With the way Chriss, Poeltl, and a few others are playing so far, it's looking real sad for us..
With the way Chriss, Poeltl, and a few others are playing so far, it's looking real sad for us..
I know you guys typically like to see things half empty, but I need a lot more to see if Skal/Bogdanovic are a "sad" return for the players you just mentioned (who have had mixed success) than a preseason game where Chriss also had 6 TOs. Need to see Bogdanovic
How the 13 pick was used is another issue, and I don't think Vlade has proven himself as an overly effective evaluator at this point though
How the 13 pick was used is another issue, and I don't think Vlade has proven himself as an overly effective evaluator at this point though
From what I saw there isn't any similarity at all to Karl's version of the Dribble Drive offense. The very idea of running the offense through the high post is completely different as the key concept of the dribble drive was four out with the five man just outside the lane as an emergency valve for driving players. Posting up the SG is also contrary to Karl's scheme but it worked very successfully last night.
This year I would expect to see a lot of Horns sets and honestly Joerger should look at running the two man game from the with Gay and Cousins or Casspi and Cousins the same way the Kings did with Peja and Webber.
And while both the offense and the defense will be evolving, the defense was completely different in terms of basic strategy as well.
Yeah, the 2nd unit will struggle because they don't really have a guy to run the offense through. Unless they stagger minutes and let Rudy take Boogie's role in the high post I guess. They may be better served to have Lawson run more draw and kick with the 2nd unit than trying to keep the ball movement offense with the reserves.
This year I would expect to see a lot of Horns sets and honestly Joerger should look at running the two man game from the with Gay and Cousins or Casspi and Cousins the same way the Kings did with Peja and Webber.
And while both the offense and the defense will be evolving, the defense was completely different in terms of basic strategy as well.
Yeah, the 2nd unit will struggle because they don't really have a guy to run the offense through. Unless they stagger minutes and let Rudy take Boogie's role in the high post I guess. They may be better served to have Lawson run more draw and kick with the 2nd unit than trying to keep the ball movement offense with the reserves.