Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

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KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#91
#91
Čarolija said:
You make it sound like Gay is major reason for our lousy defense...it cannot be further from the truth. Gay was a key member of the staring 5 that was statistically the best defensive staring line up in the NBA for the entire season 2014-2015.

Gay is not the problem. Defensive scheme has been. You can't got from a good defender to a lousy one in a space of one season in your prime years. Players don't lose that ability over night. It has a lot more to do with the system than Gay himself. Change the system (which is what we are doing) and you get a different player. You can fit a square peg into a round hole.
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That's because Gay is one of the major reasons for our lousy defense. You can blame Karl and his scheme all you want - defense is highly dependant on effort and awareness and having a bad scheme is not an excuse for lack of effort. Gay showed nothing on that end last season and I wouldn't take the risk of hoping, that he can flip a switch and get back into his form of the Malone stint. Besides Gay never was more than a very average defender, because he never gave enough effort on that end. Being part of a good defensive unit anchored by a stellar big doesn't change that, or else Ben would be a highly valued wing player and JT would be a starting big.
Gay is a scorer, a very decent scorer, but he is not a top SF in this league and he is not a building block for a team, that wants to establish pride, effort and defense as their trademarks.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#92
#92
I wonder if Koufos & McLemore would be enough value to pry away Knight? (not directly but in a 3 team deal)

Collison/Afflalo/Gay/Cauley-Stein/Cousins with Knight & Casspi as the key bench options could be a pretty solid team. However, I don't think Knight's ego will allow him to be satisfied coming off the bench...
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#93
#93
twslam07 said:
I wonder if Koufos & McLemore would be enough value to pry away Knight? (not directly but in a 3 team deal)

Collison/Afflalo/Gay/Cauley-Stein/Cousins with Knight & Casspi as the key bench options could be a pretty solid team. However, I don't think Knight's ego will allow him to be satisfied coming off the bench...
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It sounds like Phoenix's desire to deal either Knight or Bledsoe is that neither has any interest in coming off the bench but obviously Booker needs to be the starting SG.

So while I don't think Ben & Kosta are enough, even if they were I think Knight would need to start.

I think he's the better player of the two but for some reason it seems the Suns are more willing to move Bledsoe. Injury history? Less of a playmaker? He'd maybe return greater value? All of the above?
 
allrightythen

allrightythen

Starter
#95
#95
Mike said:
Unless we manage to swing a deal for a PG that scores 20 ppg (eg Bledsoe), then I think we are going to need keep hold of Rudy. He's a decent second or third option on a team. All we need to do is get him back engaged in the team offensively and defensively and he'll be a big piece of the puzzle for us.

Not sure what McLemore and Koufos can land us PG wise, for someone like Bledsoe or Knight I suspect we'd need to include something more.

In a sense it's a shame we never went after Jarrett Jack as a stopgap option. He's just signed for the vet minimum in Atlanta. Him and Collison rotating at the PG would be acceptable for now.
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The problem with that is you run the risk of losing Rudy for nothing. As Funky said if he wants out you kind of have to get what you can or you just continue to bleed talent. That was the problem with the previous administration and we don't want that to continue.
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#96
#96
Fear the Putin said:
You take either Knight or Bled if given the opportunity. Knight signed a year longer, but Bled loves Demarcus, so either way it works out.
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Eh, I'm just not high on Brandon Knight. He's four years younger than Collison, but in all other ways Darren is a better PG and definitely a better fit with the current Kings roster.

DC takes a lot fewer shots and hits on a significantly higher percentage of them, has a lot lower usage, has more assists, fewer turnovers and is a better/peskier defender.

allrightythen said:
The problem with that is you run the risk of losing Rudy for nothing. As Funky said if he wants out you kind of have to get what you can or you just continue to bleed talent. That was the problem with the previous administration and we don't want that to continue.
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And that's exactly it. If it's the case that an improved Kings team with a better role for Rudy would (1) get him back to playing at a higher level and (2) convince him to stay with the Kings after this season then there's no reason to trade him unless there's just an offer too good to pass up.

But if he's at the point where he's going to bolt from Sacramento regardless of how this season turns out then there's no point in holding on to him. Waiting until the deadline would only lower his value and if other teams know the Kings' circumstances then they may get pennies on the dollar (I don't think there's a big market for Rudy that would drive up the bids) but you have to take any reasonable offer if it's the difference between getting players that can help vs losing Rudy for nothing.

Again, all depends on what Gay's mindset is.
 
O

ovrush

Bench
#97
#97
With rumors of us and Phili talking trade, would they trade Okafor for Rudy? I know okafor was a mess defensively, but Joeger does have a history running a team with 2 true bigs. Boogie is a very good defensive anchor, okafor is young and contract controlled, Wcs is a compliment to both. I just worry in a post oriented offense (which I love) Boogie's usage might get out of control. Also if you brought in Okafor you could flip KK and his attractive contract for a pg like Beverly who would be a solid backup for Collison and a decent pg for a post oriented offense.

(I feel like finding a second post scorer to go with Boogie was the reasoning behind big George so we could play like the Grizz, but I dont think big george is ready)

Not sure if either side would do it but they seemingly want to move him and I can see the fit both ways if I squint
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#98
#98
ovrush said:
With rumors of us and Phili talking trade, would they trade Okafor for Rudy? I know okafor was a mess defensively, but Joeger does have a history running a team with 2 true bigs. Boogie is a very good defensive anchor, okafor is young and contract controlled, Wcs is a compliment to both. I just worry in a post oriented offense (which I love) Boogie's usage might get out of control. Also if you brought in Okafor you could flip KK and his attractive contract for a pg like Beverly who would be a solid backup for Collison and a decent pg for a post oriented offense.

(I feel like finding a second post scorer to go with Boogie was the reasoning behind big George so we could play like the Grizz, but I dont think big george is ready)

Not sure if either side would do it but they seemingly want to move him and I can see the fit both ways if I squint
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Where are you seeing this? got a source?
 
Mike

Mike

Bench
#99
#99
allrightythen said:
The problem with that is you run the risk of losing Rudy for nothing. As Funky said if he wants out you kind of have to get what you can or you just continue to bleed talent. That was the problem with the previous administration and we don't want that to continue.
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Of course we need to end the habit that we let good players go for nothing, but at the same time you don't give up a near 20 ppg player for little in return. We aren't a rebuilding team that trades its veterans for whatever it can get in return (eg picks or young talent) because we are on the clock with Cousins having two years left on his deal. As such our roster is constructed to compete for a play off spot. That means any return for Rudy Gay has to see us get a player of equal value, otherwise we would be downgrading our team on the basis that we are scared of him leaving for nothing next summer. That is something we can't afford to do because of the situation we find ourselves in. We need to make sure we have the best supporting cast we can possibly put together for Cousins, and if that means taking a risk on Rudy Gay walking for nothing because we can't get equal value for him - so be it.

Besides, unless Rudy Gay has said he wants out, I wouldn't be too worried based on next summer's free agent class. It stands to be stacked. Sure he will get a pay day, but there is no reason we can't attract a new starting small forward in free agency if we have a good season. We have an all star in Cousins, a new world class arena, and an excellent young head coach. So while we may not be able to attract the Kevin Durants, there is no reason we couldn't attract a player like Gordon Hayward or Danilo Gallinari if we decided to target them to be our new starting small forward. We could even decide to bring back Rudy Gay if both sides want that to happen, and we could then use free agency to strengthen another area. Essentially we have options if we decide to keep hold of Rudy Gay, we can either let him walk and replace him, or we can bring him back.
 
allrightythen

allrightythen

Starter
#100
#100
Mike said:
Of course we need to end the habit that we let good players go for nothing, but at the same time you don't give up a near 20 ppg player for little in return. We aren't a rebuilding team that trades its veterans for whatever it can get in return (eg picks or young talent) because we are on the clock with Cousins having two years left on his deal. As such our roster is constructed to compete for a play off spot. That means any return for Rudy Gay has to see us get a player of equal value, otherwise we would be downgrading our team on the basis that we are scared of him leaving for nothing next summer. That is something we can't afford to do because of the situation we find ourselves in. We need to make sure we have the best supporting cast we can possibly put together for Cousins, and if that means taking a risk on Rudy Gay walking for nothing because we can't get equal value for him - so be it.

Besides, unless Rudy Gay has said he wants out, I wouldn't be too worried based on next summer's free agent class. It stands to be stacked. Sure he will get a pay day, but there is no reason we can't attract a new starting small forward in free agency if we have a good season. We have an all star in Cousins, a new world class arena, and an excellent young head coach. So while we may not be able to attract the Kevin Durants, there is no reason we couldn't attract a player like Gordon Hayward or Danilo Gallinari if we decided to target them to be our new starting small forward. We could even decide to bring back Rudy Gay if both sides want that to happen, and we could then use free agency to strengthen another area. Essentially we have options if we decide to keep hold of Rudy Gay, we can either let him walk and replace him, or we can bring him back.
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I don't know how big of a flight risk Demarcus is but I always want the team to have as much talent as it can get. My first choice would be to keep Rudy, but if he wants out you kinda have to trade him. I don't know what he wants exactly. Some local media types say he wants out and won't be here, others are saying he wouldn't mind moving on but he hasn't asked for a trade and is fine with staying too. I don't know what the truth is. I don't think it makes sense to risk losing him for nothing but then again I'm not as confident as you that we can find talent in the free agent pool. I think Vlade will be cautious and won't make a trade unless he gets good value in return, or Rudy has made it crystal clear that he will not re-sign with the Kings. The good thing is Vlade has been good about minimizing the leaks so while there are rumors that those guys may be traded I don't think there is evidence that we are desperate to move them.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#110
#110
Assuming the Celtics want to get Westbrook I wonder if there is a 3 way deal where we send Rudy + Mclemore + KK to get Isaiah back as our starting PG since I seriously doubt him and Westbrook could coexist.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#111
#111
KingMilz said:
Assuming the Celtics want to get Westbrook I wonder if there is a 3 way deal where we send Rudy + Mclemore + KK to get Isaiah back as our starting PG since I seriously doubt him and Westbrook could coexist.
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It may make sense for basketball reasons ... but please, no Isaiah, I beg of you.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#114
#114
KingMilz said:
Why?
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Err completely subjective and biased standards. Just don't like him as a player/ his chip on the shoulder atttitide. Haven't really followed his demeanour since he left though so maybe he's changed. He's a much better player than I gave him credit for though, that much I'm willing to acknowledge.

Oh, and also because my heart probably wouldn't stand more than two games a season of G&J wetting themselves over the hustlin husky
 
KingsFanGER

KingsFanGER

Starter
#115
#115
mac said:
Err completely subjective and biased standards. Just don't like him as a player/ his chip on the shoulder atttitide. Haven't really followed his demeanour since he left though so maybe he's changed. He's a much better player than I gave him credit for though, that much I'm willing to acknowledge.

Oh, and also because my heart probably wouldn't stand more than two games a season of G&J wetting themselves over the hustlin husky
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Nope his attitude hasn't changed at all. Still a player, who wants to prove, he is a star. He gave way more effort on the defensive end for Boston and besides his size disadvantage looked decent on that end for Boston, but those ugly transition 3's and the tendency to go hero ball with the game on the line are still there.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#120
#120
I do feel the Celtics and Suns make the most sense as trade partners, as both have a surplus of PGs.

My order of preference out of the players on those teams:

1. Bledsoe
2. Thomas/Bradley
3. Rozier
4. Knight
5. Smart

I only have Knight that low because he doesn't seem to impress any of his teams enough to stick around. Also. his handle is a bit weak for a PG. Actually, I should clarify that. Knight's build is slight and he gets knocked off his path easily. Yes, he has a nice crossover, but not the sort of handles and build that's good in traffic. Darren and him are similar players in many ways.
 
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