PG for the Kings
- Thread starter King Baller
- Start date
I'd always wanted to see Tyreke and DMC on the same team...now that they're both experienced players with mature skillsets, it would be even better. I don't understand the "Trade Rudy" furor, but I too would be onboard with Tyreke. I wonder if his older brothers still go everywhere he does, or if someone finally put an end to that mess?
There are still a number solid veteran PG available in free agency that can be had at a reasonable price who could also do a solid job for us.
Mario Chalmers is a pick of the lot but not sure how his recovery is progressing. Donald Sloan is another solid veteran. Norris Cole is another one. There are still a number of solid options out there.
Mario Chalmers is a pick of the lot but not sure how his recovery is progressing. Donald Sloan is another solid veteran. Norris Cole is another one. There are still a number of solid options out there.
I think DC has to be the starter. We had a very awkward team last year with Rondo and Collison because Collison needed minutes. We needed his firepower. We no longer need him at sg because of Afflalo and maybe because of Malachai. His probable upcoming suspension may mean he is untradeable although if I were the gm, I would give the trade a try. Anyway, assuming he stays with the Kings, we need a second string pg.
If a miracle occurs and we can trade Collison, we then can use some nice tradeable players and get us a starter with more skill than Collison. (Dang I wish we had gotten Dunn).
I am a tad worried about the pg position because of where we stand right now but I have some faith there is a plan in mind.
If a miracle occurs and we can trade Collison, we then can use some nice tradeable players and get us a starter with more skill than Collison. (Dang I wish we had gotten Dunn).
I am a tad worried about the pg position because of where we stand right now but I have some faith there is a plan in mind.
Those guys would make a lot of sense if we strike out in the trade market, but it would be a let-down. Moving that direction it would look like the talent level on the team is at best the same as last year if not a little worse. I guess we're counting on Coach Joeger making the biggest difference and that would be understandable.
I wouldn't look at it that way at all. Different coaches, different systems and sometimes lesser players just fit better resulting into better results.
We only really lost Rondo. Acy was a spot starter but not a big production guy. Tolliver comfortably covers that production and brings locker room veteran leadership. SG has been upgraded with Afflalo and Matt Barnes bring in another wing 3&D guy capable of playing SG/SF and in come smaller line ups some PF.
Rondo is a very talented but it will be a case of addition by subtraction. Collison fits the style of play better all you need to solid veteran 3&D type PG as his back up who can spot start and play their role within the team. Someone like Donald Sloan fits the bill very well. I would have no issues in getting a back up PG like that and going into the season with the team that we have and would be very confident in saying that this team easily ends up being a better team than this season past. There won't be any scoring records broken but it will be a scrappy, grit and grind smash mouth basketball.
We only really lost Rondo. Acy was a spot starter but not a big production guy. Tolliver comfortably covers that production and brings locker room veteran leadership. SG has been upgraded with Afflalo and Matt Barnes bring in another wing 3&D guy capable of playing SG/SF and in come smaller line ups some PF.
Rondo is a very talented but it will be a case of addition by subtraction. Collison fits the style of play better all you need to solid veteran 3&D type PG as his back up who can spot start and play their role within the team. Someone like Donald Sloan fits the bill very well. I would have no issues in getting a back up PG like that and going into the season with the team that we have and would be very confident in saying that this team easily ends up being a better team than this season past. There won't be any scoring records broken but it will be a scrappy, grit and grind smash mouth basketball.
I have a lot of hope that a new coach and a new system that is designed to fit the players we have will help a lot. I imagine the players will like it more and buy in easier and they'll know (at least for now) that management has the coach's back. I also think coach Joeger know better how to connect to his players. I haven't watched Donald Sloan in a couple but his numbers suggest that he is a solid back up PG who can defend and hit the 3.
So you think Rondo held us back from a chemistry standpoint or do you think it would be addition by subtraction due to his poor defense? I can see ball movement getting better with him gone, but he was good about getting guys shots where they could do something with it.
So you think Rondo held us back from a chemistry standpoint or do you think it would be addition by subtraction due to his poor defense? I can see ball movement getting better with him gone, but he was good about getting guys shots where they could do something with it.
Sloan was just an example of the type of player that would be a good fit. Collison is a 15ppg/6apg type of PG who will give you solid shooting percentage and lowish turnover numbers with lower usage rate than more ball dominant PGs.
Rondo is a good fit for certain teams. I think he did OK with Cousins but not great with Gay. I have no doubt the assist numbers will come down next season but there will be more motion. Rondo functions best when he has multiple shooters around him. In Boston he had KG who was a good shooter, Pierce and Allen who were great shooters. Big Baby was a good shooter and so on.
With us he had inconsistent shooter but not enough of shooters. The defense was a problem. If we keep Gay and Collison, I am not too worried about our ability to score. I expect Gay to be more efficient and more productive with Collison at PG than he was with Rondo simply because he will be more featured, he will get more touches.
I know I sound like a broken record but I keep going back to Malone's last season here. He had a very similar approach to that of Joerger in Memphis. Cousins was playing like an all-star, Rudy was having a great season so was Collison. That was with JT and McLemore as starters and hardly anyone of note coming off the bench. We had Casspi, Reggie Evans, Hollins, Ray Mac and Stauskas coming off the bench.
This team is not too different except it has a much better bench, more shooting, more end of bench youth and scrappy, defensive oriented vets. JT was a good man on man defender but WCS has a much better defensive awareness and provides shot blocking. Afflalo is a better defender and more steady shooter than sophomore McLemore and he has a bit of a post game. Bench still has Casspi but also has a VERY good back up C in KK, solid role playing stretch 4 in Tolliver, a scrappy 3&D player in Barnes, versatile defender and role player in Temple. Still has McLemore, and a bunch of youngsters at the end of the bench who are more talented than the bunch we had then. Add a very solid veteran PG who is more of a 3&D type and that team looks pretty solid. 2 high usage 20+ppg players in Cousins and Gay. 2 solid supplementary scorers/shooters in Collison and Afflalo. A shot blocker in WCS, a good solid defensive C in KK and a bunch of scrappy defensive minded role players who can shoot. That is a receipt for a very solid team.
I look at that team and thing that Joerger has done more with less for a good chunk of last season in Memphis where Gasol, Conley and Chalmers have missed big chunks of the season through injuries. I am pretty confident that that team with a solid vet PG and possibly another veteran addition in the backcourt off the bench is going to be fighting for a play off spot next season and it's an overall improvement on what we had. A lot depends on the system and how the players gel but majority of these guys have been together for a while now so there is a familiarity factor that is always needed here.
Rondo is a good fit for certain teams. I think he did OK with Cousins but not great with Gay. I have no doubt the assist numbers will come down next season but there will be more motion. Rondo functions best when he has multiple shooters around him. In Boston he had KG who was a good shooter, Pierce and Allen who were great shooters. Big Baby was a good shooter and so on.
With us he had inconsistent shooter but not enough of shooters. The defense was a problem. If we keep Gay and Collison, I am not too worried about our ability to score. I expect Gay to be more efficient and more productive with Collison at PG than he was with Rondo simply because he will be more featured, he will get more touches.
I know I sound like a broken record but I keep going back to Malone's last season here. He had a very similar approach to that of Joerger in Memphis. Cousins was playing like an all-star, Rudy was having a great season so was Collison. That was with JT and McLemore as starters and hardly anyone of note coming off the bench. We had Casspi, Reggie Evans, Hollins, Ray Mac and Stauskas coming off the bench.
This team is not too different except it has a much better bench, more shooting, more end of bench youth and scrappy, defensive oriented vets. JT was a good man on man defender but WCS has a much better defensive awareness and provides shot blocking. Afflalo is a better defender and more steady shooter than sophomore McLemore and he has a bit of a post game. Bench still has Casspi but also has a VERY good back up C in KK, solid role playing stretch 4 in Tolliver, a scrappy 3&D player in Barnes, versatile defender and role player in Temple. Still has McLemore, and a bunch of youngsters at the end of the bench who are more talented than the bunch we had then. Add a very solid veteran PG who is more of a 3&D type and that team looks pretty solid. 2 high usage 20+ppg players in Cousins and Gay. 2 solid supplementary scorers/shooters in Collison and Afflalo. A shot blocker in WCS, a good solid defensive C in KK and a bunch of scrappy defensive minded role players who can shoot. That is a receipt for a very solid team.
I look at that team and thing that Joerger has done more with less for a good chunk of last season in Memphis where Gasol, Conley and Chalmers have missed big chunks of the season through injuries. I am pretty confident that that team with a solid vet PG and possibly another veteran addition in the backcourt off the bench is going to be fighting for a play off spot next season and it's an overall improvement on what we had. A lot depends on the system and how the players gel but majority of these guys have been together for a while now so there is a familiarity factor that is always needed here.
I have high hopes for Joeger and I definitely see the parallels between him and Mike Malone and I'm really hoping he puts us back on the track that Malone had us on. Rudy was really successful in that sort of system and I really believe that was Karl's biggest downfall. He tried to play fast while his 3 best players (Cuz, Rudy, and Rondo) are all at their best at a slower pace. I wonder if Koufos and Demarcus might not actually work better together under Joeger and his system/style.
I'm concerned about starting the season with a 3-D backup PG as a starter because Collison is suspended and Joeger is instantly at a disadvantage because he's giving up a big advantage in the back-court. In thinking some more about it I think I'm underestimating Darren Collison some as well. He was pretty good as a starter before Rondo and I can see him getting back to that with a system that fits the team around him better.
To be honest I'm sure I'm just overly pessimistic these days, but it's only because of the last decade of whatever it is we want to call this team.
I'm concerned about starting the season with a 3-D backup PG as a starter because Collison is suspended and Joeger is instantly at a disadvantage because he's giving up a big advantage in the back-court. In thinking some more about it I think I'm underestimating Darren Collison some as well. He was pretty good as a starter before Rondo and I can see him getting back to that with a system that fits the team around him better.
To be honest I'm sure I'm just overly pessimistic these days, but it's only because of the last decade of whatever it is we want to call this team.
I sure hope Vlade would put in a waiver claim on Toney Douglas.
But there are 6 other teams (New Orleans is one of the teams with a worse record, but they just waived him) with worse records and the team with the worse record on the waiver claim gets the player.
Lets keep our fingers crossed we finally get our back up point guard after the 48 hours waiver claim window expires tomorrow.
But there are 6 other teams (New Orleans is one of the teams with a worse record, but they just waived him) with worse records and the team with the worse record on the waiver claim gets the player.
Lets keep our fingers crossed we finally get our back up point guard after the 48 hours waiver claim window expires tomorrow.
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Fingers crossed for Douglas!? If that's all we get I'm saving on League pass this year.
Collison physically doesn't hold up as a starter and our target should be someone at least as good if not better to share time. Knight, Rubio, Holiday or Tyreke in a trade. I'll cross my fingers for that.
Douglas has been here and with our talent base he will be below average at best. If Sloan or Douglas is all we can get...no bueno.
Collison physically doesn't hold up as a starter and our target should be someone at least as good if not better to share time. Knight, Rubio, Holiday or Tyreke in a trade. I'll cross my fingers for that.
Douglas has been here and with our talent base he will be below average at best. If Sloan or Douglas is all we can get...no bueno.
I still think the Suns, Pelicans, and the Heat are the best bet for trading partners. There are no other teams (with the possible exception of the T-Wolves) who are willing to give up a good starting PG.
-Portland: no
-GSW: obviously not
-Memphis: not happening for obvious reasons
-Spurs: Parker is old now, not sure if Spurs would be willing anyway
-Mavs: no (don't want him now anyway - older, lots of injuries, has lost 2 steps)
-Houston (possibly, but is Beverley really an upgrade?)
-Lakers: most likely not
-Clippers: nope
-Thunder (I think for the right package they would for fear of having the same thing happen twice, but we don't have that right package)
-Cavs: nope
And so forth ... Pelicans are lacking in the big man department (we aren't) so they present as a good trading partner for us. IMO, I don't want Tyreke back as he still doesn't fit and all the issues he had with us years ago are still there. The Suns have been trying to get rid of 1 of their PGs for a while now, so that's possible, and the Heat are a bit of a mess and may want to hit the "reset" button.
-Portland: no
-GSW: obviously not
-Memphis: not happening for obvious reasons
-Spurs: Parker is old now, not sure if Spurs would be willing anyway
-Mavs: no (don't want him now anyway - older, lots of injuries, has lost 2 steps)
-Houston (possibly, but is Beverley really an upgrade?)
-Lakers: most likely not
-Clippers: nope
-Thunder (I think for the right package they would for fear of having the same thing happen twice, but we don't have that right package)
-Cavs: nope
And so forth ... Pelicans are lacking in the big man department (we aren't) so they present as a good trading partner for us. IMO, I don't want Tyreke back as he still doesn't fit and all the issues he had with us years ago are still there. The Suns have been trying to get rid of 1 of their PGs for a while now, so that's possible, and the Heat are a bit of a mess and may want to hit the "reset" button.
I think we need two pgs unless we are absolutely sure our 59th pick can contribute. I wouldn't bet my season on that or even the period where DC will be suspended. I also want a starting pg better than Collison but at this point, how? I would grab Douglas so we wouldn't have a gun to our head on any other trades. I thought Douglas was OK when we had him before unless he has deteriorated for some reason. We will be forced to use our second best pg for awhile and I would rather it be a vet, no matter how skilled he is, than a rookie.
I was going to say that none of this is earth shaking but considering our pg position, maybe it is. I am paying so little attention to who is available and under what circumstances that I doubt I can add anything concrete. Tyreke sounds good if he is healthy. DC unintentionally made a mess of things for us. Wish I knew what his punishment was going to be.
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The thing with Bledsoe and Tyreke is that no team is going to trade for them now. They missed majority of last season due to injury so teams trading for them will want to see them play before they pull the trigger on the deal.
This is especially true with Bledsoe who is signed to a longer term deal. With Tyreke, a team might take a shot given that he is an expiring deal but I highly doubt that teams would want to give up major assets in that scenario. I would be confident in saying that Kings wouldn't be giving up Gay for Tyreke who has missed most of last season and had 3 surgeries on his knee in the last 12 months or so.
This is especially true with Bledsoe who is signed to a longer term deal. With Tyreke, a team might take a shot given that he is an expiring deal but I highly doubt that teams would want to give up major assets in that scenario. I would be confident in saying that Kings wouldn't be giving up Gay for Tyreke who has missed most of last season and had 3 surgeries on his knee in the last 12 months or so.