Free Agency

[Telemachus]

The fact that you're even trying to make a distinction is in incredibly poor taste and frankly outrageous.

Domestic violence covers a very broad spectrum. Beating a woman is very specific. One of his charges is for spitting at her. That is not a nice thing to do, but a far cry from beating or abusing someone. Until the facts come out, we won't know what actually happened, so we shouldn't presume to pass judgement.

I know someone who was arrested for domestic violence once because their was visible injury when the police came. There were marks on her wrists from him catching her arm when she was hitting him. My point is that it isn't always cut and dry.

 

[RussoTuristo]

lol.

3pt marksmen, scrappy, tries on defense and has shown ability to play off Cousins? That's not what we're looking for in our new system?

Well, you skipped "tall" ... I am sure they know his pluses and minuses better than any other team in NBA and for some reason, they decided to go in a different direction. May be Vlade will address it during next press conference but probably we will never find out all the details.

 

[Gilles]

This "Seth Curry is a good defender" myth can't die soon enough. No, he's not. He plays hard on that end, but his physical tools are very limited, and because of it his D is as well.

 

[NewArena]

Tolliver sucks..there is no other way to spin it. Temple is what he is, will not do much. The praise for Vlade around here is crazy, the man can do no wrong

oh please

did u see anyone jumping for joy and praise threads all abound? you're the one in here being dramatic lol most of us aren't PISSED at Vlade, because he isn't making
big moves just to make headlines. He's actually trying to improve the team. If you think that's going to happen in two days, im not sure what to tell you

 

[NewArena]

You have to assume we have a plan for pg and it's not for a third stringer

HAS to be. I'll wait another week (or even longer to see) what we have planned

 

[NewArena]

My post was somewhat tongue in cheek. The Kings played at a frantic pace last season, scored a bunch of points and had a crappy season. In my mind MUCH more of that was about being Matadors on defense than an inability to get baskets.

What I'm hoping for is a turnaround under Joerger like the Hawks had when Budenholzer arrived. Josh Smith and Devin Harris had left and Atlanta had signed Millsap (who was viewed as a minor coup at the time) and DeMarre Carroll who fans had low expectations of. They also drafted Schroeder.

They regressed a bit that first season but you could see the changes happening and the next season they won 60 games.

Were there many people that looked at

Horford
Millsap
Carroll
Korver
Teague

and thought at the time - that will be a 60 win team in two seasons?

I want to see smart basketball, good ball movement, solid shooting, tough defense and a team that competes each night, stays flexible for the future and has young guys with potential to develop.

Last year's Kings did almost none of those things. So I'm okay with the moves that have been made. None of the free agents are cornerstones or exciting pickups on their own. But my hope is that they are all contributors to a culture change that replaces dysfunction, in-fighting and uninspired play with a winning system, chemistry and a willingness to play hard and compete each night.

can't believe i missed this post. Awesome

 

[ParniValjak]

This may irritate some of you, but I'm going to give a big credit to our front office. Vlade is first and foremost a basketball player and after that a basketball executive. Vlade and the team behaved with dignity towards Seth and Caron. Seth opted out from his contract and the team could have hanged on its right to match. That immediately limits the player's possibilities to find a new team. The team could have signed Seth, but could not guarantee him minutes. So, the team was fair with him. Caron did pick up his option and that was a very respectable move from him after what he experienced last season. However, his minutes were a big, big question mark as well. After the "earthquake" Durant decision and the market going nuts, players like Caron can find even playing time with teams like GSW (which has to create a bench of vet.min. players) on top of a chance to win a ring. GSW is not the only such team that Caron can find. Cleveland is not in a better position etc.. So I think that it was fair to Caron as well. There was no hurry to do that, but Caron's release came within hours of Durant's decision. So I believe that there was a connection.

I, for one, very much appreciate Vlade's draft. People are talking about small ball as the future of the NBA. I don't believe in it. Dominant centers haven't been there for a while. That's why they invented small ball. We will see how our new bigs develop, but I have a lot of confidence that they will become factors. The Kings are one of the best teams in the NBA with 7-footers. More than that, they are also with long and very attractive contracts! DMC, also a big man, is the first to get a significant pay day only after 2 years. I think that's outright fantastic even before we see how Papagiannis and Labissiere pan out. WCS already passed my checkpoint. Just have a look at Mozgov and Mahimni contracts and you'll see what I mean. You will understand it even better when you watch GSW play without Bogut and Ezeli. Speights will be gone as well and Varejao is a question mark. Will Pachulia repalace those bigs? Cleveland has even a bigger hole in the bigs department. The reality will catch up with those teams. They had a window here just now, but GSW almost fell to the Thunder already. The party is over.

There's been a lot of words said about the Kings FA signings. Why are you so worried? There is a clear trend to change the culture. If you don't play defense, your in trouble to find minutes. I like that very much. It's not even being a great defender, but you have to show the effort. Play hard in every game. That's how you win games. Scoring has not been a problem for the Kings and I don't believe it will become one. Boogie is there with WCS at the rim and Casspi, Afflalo, Tolliver and Collison can shoot the 3-pointer. Temple can too. I don't know what's going to happen with Rudy and BenMc, but they can shoot as well and so can Bogdanovic when he comes over. Therefore, I'm not worried about the scoring at all. If we will upgrade out defense significantly, and it looks like we are well on the way, we will win games. Believe me, teams will respect us - and for a reason.

I agree with most of this! One thing that I have been thinking about today is how can a team beat Warriors in a 4 game series. It will be just about impossible BUT the only way you could possibly do it is got at them inside, play scrappy and have length on your team. It seems to be the type of team we are building towards.

I listened to coach Joergers presser today and he mentioned about Skal that he could play 3 positions and play both inside and out. The kid is as raw as they come but imagine if we could develop WCS and Skal to guard multiple positions. So in a couple of years time when we should be making our run, imagine if you could feel comfortable getting WCS to guard Durant and even roll out a DMC-WCS-Skal frontline and go at Warriors that way and get them to guard us.

OKC caused a LOT of trouble for GSW in the WCF this year because of their length. Maybe, just maybe that could be a blueprint on how to beat them.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I agree with most of this! One thing that I have been thinking about today is how can a team beat Warriors in a 4 game series. It will be just about impossible BUT the only way you could possibly do it is got at them inside, play scrappy and have length on your team. It seems to be the type of team we are building towards.

I listened to coach Joergers presser today and he mentioned about Skal that he could play 3 positions and play both inside and out. The kid is as raw as they come but imagine if we could develop WCS and Skal to guard multiple positions. So in a couple of years time when we should be making our run, imagine if you could feel comfortable getting WCS to guard Durant and even roll out a DMC-WCS-Skal frontline and go at Warriors that way and get them to guard us.

OKC caused a LOT of trouble for GSW in the WCF this year because of their length. Maybe, just maybe that could be a blueprint on how to beat them.

Length certainly is the blueprint for beating GS. Especially because neither Klay nor Steph are particularly quick guards. So you can get away with guarding them with bigger, athletic guys like Harkless or Roberson.
With the addition of Durant they have another guy tailormade to exploit missmatches versus slow, big players. Durant struggles against smaller, quicker guys, because his post game is pretty much nonexistent. Tony Allen gave Durant hell, when matched up with him. But still you need 3-4 upper echelon, athletic defenders to get GS in trouble. And you need to hope Klay, Steph or Durant don't go into video game mode and knock down stupid jumpshots from 3 feet behind the 3pt line. while falling back and with a hand in the face.....

 

[Gilles]

I agree with most of this! One thing that I have been thinking about today is how can a team beat Warriors in a 4 game series. It will be just about impossible BUT the only way you could possibly do it is got at them inside, play scrappy and have length on your team. It seems to be the type of team we are building towards.

I listened to coach Joergers presser today and he mentioned about Skal that he could play 3 positions and play both inside and out. The kid is as raw as they come but imagine if we could develop WCS and Skal to guard multiple positions. So in a couple of years time when we should be making our run, imagine if you could feel comfortable getting WCS to guard Durant and even roll out a DMC-WCS-Skal frontline and go at Warriors that way and get them to guard us.

OKC caused a LOT of trouble for GSW in the WCF this year because of their length. Maybe, just maybe that could be a blueprint on how to beat them.

Well, unless Warriors manage to bring to life a couple of big man ghosts, Demarcus Cousins is probably their biggest kryptonite in the league right now besides Lebron.
That's why Spurs are looking to bring Pau as well: you have to go inside against that unfair team for all 48 minutes. It's the only, however small, hope right now.
And forest of hands is the only way to bother them on D, of course.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

it sounds like joerger is trying to bring some of that grit N grind to sac. let's hope he can get the troops ready 4 the season to grind out some wins.

 

[funkykingston]

This "Seth Curry is a good defender" myth can't die soon enough. No, he's not. He plays hard on that end, but his physical tools are very limited, and because of it his D is as well.

I'm a big Seth Curry fan but I agree.

Karl called Seth the Kings best on-ball defender last season but that was seemingly less praise for Curry as it was George taking a not so subtle shot at his other guards through the media.

Opponents shot better than average at all distances against Curry and either 10% or 11% better than average from three. He gives a lot of effort on that end but the results weren't great.

What I liked about Curry is that he could be a shooting/scoring option off the bench. In my mind if Collison is the starter you want one backup that is bigger/longer, stronger and defensive minded and another backup who can come in an put points on the board. That's a versatile PG rotation with three players that give a coach options depending on matchups and how the game is going.

 

[KingsFan80]

Temple sucks too...I would rather have Curry, Lawson, Jennings name it. But that is history now.

Looks like Westbrook is on the trade block now according to HoopsRumors.com. Wow imagine that one, if we some how pulled that off

 

[twslam07]

Temple sucks too...I would rather have Curry, Lawson, Jennings name it. But that is history now.

Looks like Westbrook is on the trade block now according to HoopsRumors.com. Wow imagine that one, if we some how pulled that off

We won't but dare to dream...

 

[funkykingston]

Temple sucks too...I would rather have Curry, Lawson, Jennings name it. But that is history now.

Looks like Westbrook is on the trade block now according to HoopsRumors.com. Wow imagine that one, if we some how pulled that off

The Kings don't have anything the Thunder would want. No stash of 1st round picks and the only player good enough to return Westbrook in a trade is Cousins and without Durant and Westbrook the strength of their roster would be their young bigs - Adams, Kanter, Sabonis etc

And different strokes for different folks but while I love Curry and wanted him back as the 3rd string PG, I wouldn't touch Lawson or Jennings with a 10 foot pole.

All three guys don't fit the clear direction Joerger & Vlade want to move, which is long, solid defenders. All three of those guys are poor defensively.

Curry gives effort but is just physically limited by his lack of lateral quickness and his size/wingspan being below average.

Lawson is 5'11" with an unremarkable wingspan and while he has good lateral quickness, he just doesn't give effort on that end. Here's Lawson and Harden combining for some impressive defensive effort:

https://vine.co/v/iBD0K0Lwj26

Jennings is long and quick and early in the career he was a pest defensively even though he couldn't handle physical guards and lacked the strength, bulk and effort to get through picks. A few years ago, he started declining rapidly on that end for no real apparent reason. He plays upright, he turns rather than sliding to contain and really just pokes at the ball as his man goes past him or he's easily screened off. At the time it just seemed like poor fundamentals & effort that led to bad habits but now, coming off injury I don't know that he'll ever be anything other that a turnstile on defense.

We can choose to disagree with the direction, but the Kings have decided to emphasize defense this year. Which means none of those three guys are good fits.

 

[dude12]

Speaking of Curry, compare his size to I Cousins. IC is going to get every chance to make this Kings team based on his Summer League play. His size is excellent for a combo guard and if he can be another 2nd round surprise, he would fit in with his length.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Indeed. From a physical standpoint IC would be a nice compliment to our rather small and slender starter in DC.
Watched the Celtics in SL yesterday and Rozier looked really good. Maybe they give up on Smart, because Rozier looks like the better offensive player.
With Smart Joerger would get his Tony Allen type of guy, that he could slot in to stop the opposing best guard.
Would make a lot of sense with the direction this team is heading right now.

 

[dude12]

Indeed. From a physical standpoint IC would be a nice compliment to our rather small and slender starter in DC.
Watched the Celtics in SL yesterday and Rozier looked really good. Maybe they give up on Smart, because Rozier looks like the better offensive player.
With Smart Joerger would get his Tony Allen type of guy, that he could slot in to stop the opposing best guard.
Would make a lot of sense with the direction this team is heading right now.

I think Temple is going to fill that role. Doubt Boston is going to give up Smart unless we are returning a Rudy Gay in a deal

 

[206Fan]

Does anyone think the roster we currently have gets us over 40wins? It just doesn't seem plausible, especially DC might be out for 20-25 games.
We'd basically be starting off the season with this rotation:

PG: Temple/Cousins
SG: Afflalo/Barnes/McLemore
SF: Gay/Casspi
PF: WCS/Tolliver
C: Cousins/Koufos/Papagiannis
add in DC after his suspension.

Unless trades happen, it just doesn't seem like we have a very good roster. Lack of talent.

 

[mac]

Does anyone think the roster we currently have gets us over 40wins? It just doesn't seem plausible, especially DC might be out for 20-25 games.
We'd basically be starting off the season with this rotation:

PG: Temple/Cousins
SG: Afflalo/Barnes/McLemore
SF: Gay/Casspi
PF: WCS/Tolliver
C: Cousins/Koufos/Papagiannis
add in DC after his suspension.

Unless trades happen, it just doesn't seem like we have a very good roster. Lack of talent.

Nope I don't think we'll be very good at all. Of course, we only ever over-value our talent until we have another losing season and it becomes convenient to say our talent pool was bad in order to defend Cousins. The amount of faith placed in Vlade/Joerger is very irrational in my opinion. That's not to say that Vlade isn't a good a GM or that Joerger is a bad coach, but that at this point they haven't actually proven that they can get us to be a winning team. Still, as fans I guess it serves us best to be optimistic and root for the team regardless. I'm looking forward to a Rudy trade

 

[NoBonus]

My thoughts for the Kings and Russell Westbrook center around not how the Kings can get Westbrook, which seems unlikely, but how the Kings can be that third team in this trade to get someone else. Something like this:

Sacramento gets: Picks/prospects and Kendall Marshall (or some other better PG, this is just an example)
Philly gets: Russell Westbrook
OKC gets: Rudy Gay and Ben Simmons

Something like that.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

if okc sends westbrook to the celtics would they give up avery bradley + 1st for rudy?

starting 5 russ, crowder, rudy, horford, olynyk
bench IT, brown, sullinger, smart and other scrubs

 

[Gilles]

Nope I don't think we'll be very good at all. Of course, we only ever over-value our talent until we have another losing season and it becomes convenient to say our talent pool was bad in order to defend Cousins. The amount of faith placed in Vlade/Joerger is very irrational in my opinion. That's not to say that Vlade isn't a good a GM or that Joerger is a bad coach, but that at this point they haven't actually proven that they can get us to be a winning team. Still, as fans I guess it serves us best to be optimistic and root for the team regardless. I'm looking forward to a Rudy trade

I would like to point to the fact, that Pacers were in POs this year with 26th or so offense. Defense os half the game

 

[AaronPDX]

If the Kings stay pat and don't make a major trade (I do think they will, however), not sure how they're going to put bodies in the seats of that shiny new arena. Not many are going to pay hard-earned cash to see that product on the floor. It's not even realistic.

 

[twslam07]

if okc sends westbrook to the celtics would they give up avery bradley + 1st for rudy?

starting 5 russ, crowder, rudy, horford, olynyk
bench IT, brown, sullinger, smart and other scrubs

They wouldn't give up Bradley OR a 1st for Gay (depending on what 1st round pick you're talking about)

 

[KingsFanGER]

I would like to point to the fact, that Pacers were in POs this year with 26th or so offense. Defense os half the game

You are right - defense is half of the game and the Pacers had George, G.Hill, Stuckey and S.Hill. We have no players of this caliber. You need talent to play defense too. It's very hard to play great D without great defensive talent.

 

[John Galt]

If the Kings stay pat and don't make a major trade (I do think they will, however), not sure how they're going to put bodies in the seats of that shiny new arena. Not many are going to pay hard-earned cash to see that product on the floor. It's not even realistic.

Maybe you're right but as a STH I am hugely psyched to see this team - even as currently constructed - go to work. I think they will be full every night at G1C even if this is the roster. I think the team now is better than the team we ended the season with, and the team we ended the season with could have been a playoff team if not for outright sabotage.

It is too enticing to see what the new coach - a whole personality face lift will do to the team. It's like Malone 2.0 but arguably with an even better suited roster. All the big tough guys with a "grit n grind" coach. Now some people aren't happy about the talent on this team but I believe we have 12 guys who are better than Seth right now. I just have to conclude Seth isn't that good or the rest of the league wouldn't be letting Dallas have him for $3M. Disappointed to lose Rondo but a lot of people much smarter than me say it is a blessing.

I absolutely can't wait - and a good PG for Rudy is icing on the cake but not essential for me to buy tickets.

I don't gamble, but I think it is a reasonable guess that putting butts in the seats is not going to be any problem at all.

 

[funkykingston]

I said this in another thread but how many people saw the Hawks in 2013-2014 and thought

Horford
Millsap
Carroll
Korver
Teague

That will be a 60 win team in two years. Even optimistic Hawks fans thought Carroll wasn't good enough to be a starting small forward. Heck, the guys over at Peachtree Hoops didn't even mention him in their season preview. Most NBA predictions from that year had the Hawks missing the playoffs with some listing them as a 7th or 8th seed and very occasionally a 6th. No one thought Carroll would be a player for them. Grantland speculated that Ferry assembled that roster not to win games but to get guys on value contracts so he could make trades.

In short, that didn't look like a lineup that could win or that would even stay together. But they were built for Budenholzer and after a disappointing first season, mostly due to Horford missing games, they were the best in the East the next year.

I'm not saying the talent levels are equal, but Cousins is a bigger talent than anyone on that squad and Collison/Afflalo/Gay/Cauley-Stein compare favorably as a supporting cast.

I was also recently rereading this article:

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/2/...gs-lineup-starters-ty-corbin-demarcus-cousins

Which showed that statistically the Kings starting lineup two seasons ago was one of the best in the NBA under Malone and then Corbin.

Collison
McLemore
Gay
Thompson
Cousins

If no additional moves are made the Kings next season would start:

Collison
Afflalo
Gay
Cauley-Stein
Cousins

Seems like an upgrade at two spots and two additional years of growth from Cousins would make that even better. And what was the conclusion of Tom Ziller's piece as to why the starting five was so good but the team was still bad?

• Terrible Bench
• Lack of defenders on the roster
• Poor coaching decisions (he mentions Corbin, not Malone here)
• Cousins playing himself out of games (Ziller references foul trouble but I'd add letting frustration take him out of plays hurts too)

Now, it sure seems like those first three have been taken care of. Sessions, Stauskas, DWill and the twin duplexes of Evans and Landry proved to be a historically inefficient bench. There are definitely more defensive players on the team now and more size. And we have to think (hope?) Joerger is a better coach than Corbin and probably also Malone.

Whether Cousins grows up some and stops arguing calls, loafing on defense when frustrated, making silly fouls and not holding himself accountable for all those things that hurt his team is up to him. But do I think this team can win 40+ games? Yeah, why not? They won 33 games last season when the team apparently gave up on Karl and defense seemed like something other teams did. They had a five game win streak that put them briefly into the 8th spot and near .500 on the season and then immediately went 5-17 over the next 22 games to fall out of contention before shutting down most of their players to finish the season.

Most of my optimism right now comes from a clear emphasis on defense, size and length as well as the prospect of better coaching, more cohesion and hopefully a lack of drama.

I'm still hoping for/expecting a trade or trades to finish reshaping the roster but even if there aren't any other moves, this team's starting five has shown itself to be pretty solid, the bench is better than the last two seasons and I think we all expect better results than what happened under Karl.

 

[funkykingston]

Maybe you're right but as a STH I am hugely psyched to see this team - even as currently constructed - go to work. I think they will be full every night at G1C even if this is the roster. I think the team now is better than the team we ended the season with, and the team we ended the season with could have been a playoff team if not for outright sabotage.

It is too enticing to see what the new coach - a whole personality face lift will do to the team. It's like Malone 2.0 but arguably with an even better suited roster. All the big tough guys with a "grit n grind" coach. Now some people aren't happy about the talent on this team but I believe we have 12 guys who are better than Seth right now. I just have to conclude Seth isn't that good or the rest of the league wouldn't be letting Dallas have him for $3M. Disappointed to lose Rondo but a lot of people much smarter than me say it is a blessing.

I absolutely can't wait - and a good PG for Rudy is icing on the cake but not essential for me to buy tickets.

I don't gamble, but I think it is a reasonable guess that putting butts in the seats is not going to be any problem at all.

I agree. I'm expecting the team to be better, but even if they aren't, I expect them to compete every night. Kings fans are generally an informed fan base. They know the game and they appreciate effort and hard work. I think back to the Kings game in Mexico City where Boston just ran them off the floor, won all the loose ball situations and essentially outworked them the entire game leading to a blowout.

The Celtics recap of that game even began with this sentence: "The Boston Celtics knew full well that their most recent opponent, the Sacramento Kings, play no defense."

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/post-120315-celtics-torch-kings-for-win-in-mexico-city/

I don't mind paying for tickets and seeing my team lose. That's sports. But I'm angry when I pay for tickets and watch my team not even compete. I don't think that will be the case this season. And I'm looking forward to it.

 

[John Galt]

Sessions, Stauskas, DWill and the twin duplexes of Evans and Landry proved to be a historically inefficient bench.

 

[Jkbiker]

If no additional moves are made the Kings next season would start:

Collison
Afflalo
Gay
Cauley-Stein
Cousins

Seems like an upgrade at two spots and two additional years of growth from Cousins would make that even better. And what was the conclusion of Tom Ziller's piece as to why the starting five was so good but the team was still bad?

• Terrible Bench
• Lack of defenders on the roster
• Poor coaching decisions (he mentions Corbin, not Malone here)
• Cousins playing himself out of games (Ziller references foul trouble but I'd add letting frustration take him out of plays hurts too)

Now, it sure seems like those first three have been taken care of. Sessions, Stauskas, DWill and the twin duplexes of Evans and Landry proved to be a historically inefficient bench. There are definitely more defensive players on the team now and more size. And we have to think (hope?) Joerger is a better coach than Corbin and probably also Malone.
.

I Agree I think our starting 5 is better than 2 yrs ago - So why mess it up by trading Rudy

Trading our starting SF is not upgrading our starting 5
Having Rudy play for DJ and him bringing Rudy's defense up, and stop playing Rudy at the 4 is an upgrade at the 3 for me!
Without Rudy we do not have a quality SF to start
Collison is a Starting PG

We have two OTHER trade pieces, Reserves Kosta and Ben
We just need a BACKUP PG that can cover for 10 Games for DC and be a quality backup PG the rest of the season

We need to find a team that needs a reserve big and has two quality Backup PG