Vlade talking with Grant about our draft selections
- Thread starter bajaden
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Those guys are not ready to win right now. Even the people who had these guys high on their own personal boards know that...except that Baldwin is the older player. Vlade worked him out and he passed on him. He's planning on getting veteran help. I think he's going to do what you want him to do if I read you right, he's just going to go into FA or trade route to do it.
I'm not sure that any of those guys are better than Curry at the moment....probably even Ben truth be told.
I'm not sure that any of those guys are better than Curry at the moment....probably even Ben truth be told.
I never looked at the moves last year as being in win now mode. To me, Vlade cleared out dead weight to make room for players you hoped would work out better (didn't count on Karl forgetting how to coach).
This year, there were only a couple players (Dunn & Heild) who I felt could come and help right away. Once they were gone, you move on to plan B (draft for the future).
As for Cousins, I am one of his biggest supporters. However, you have to make moves that best help the team and hope that is good enough to keep Cousins happy. If not, then you move on. I honestly don't think it will be a problem.
This year, there were only a couple players (Dunn & Heild) who I felt could come and help right away. Once they were gone, you move on to plan B (draft for the future).
As for Cousins, I am one of his biggest supporters. However, you have to make moves that best help the team and hope that is good enough to keep Cousins happy. If not, then you move on. I honestly don't think it will be a problem.
I think the draft strategy changed when we couldn't get Dunn. Thibs snatched him up, and apparently wrapped him up in a death grip, and has been shopping Rubio around instead. That's what the twitter reports seem to indicate.
So we could not get Dunn with 8 and whatever candy we were willing to offer, and we did not believe in Chriss. The difference from that point out appears to be you think more highly of some of the PGs than Vlade did. He said again at #13 that there was no PG on their chart worth that high a pick. There are also reports out of Detroit that Vlade tried to back out of the #13 pick too, and trade it for #18 and an asset, but SVG wouldn't do it. So there he sat at #13, no PG worth taking, and I guess a big Greek kid who he thought would be worth taking at #18 maybe, and so he just took him at #13. #22 is a shooter. We don't think highly of him, but maybe Vlade does, and maybe Cuz does too -- apparently they had been working out together in L.A.. #29 rolls around, and that's a solid grab there of a talented guy who was thought to have big potential and just had a crappy year. More twitter stuff indicating we were looking at him as a potential running mate for Cuz, so using his shooting skill as an another mega-PF. Maybe the 7'0" PF revolution is next, and our contribution. Also another Kentucky cat who again knows Cuz and WCS. Could end up being nothing, but could end being a real late round steal.
The thing in all of it is this: why are we trying to draft a PG? And if its in order to contribute this year as a rotation guy, that hope may have died with Dunn from Vlade's perspective. So if he was going to have to go prospecting, he wasn't going to be bound by position, and took his shots. That's not wrogn thinking. It may be wrong talent assessment, but the thinking behind it is solid. He wanted to get the guy many of us thought he should get, for the second year in a row. Then he tried to build back and acquire as many picks/value as he could, and use them on BPA's, because he didn't see any other PGs who could step right in. Maybe not any guards period outside the top 8.
So we could not get Dunn with 8 and whatever candy we were willing to offer, and we did not believe in Chriss. The difference from that point out appears to be you think more highly of some of the PGs than Vlade did. He said again at #13 that there was no PG on their chart worth that high a pick. There are also reports out of Detroit that Vlade tried to back out of the #13 pick too, and trade it for #18 and an asset, but SVG wouldn't do it. So there he sat at #13, no PG worth taking, and I guess a big Greek kid who he thought would be worth taking at #18 maybe, and so he just took him at #13. #22 is a shooter. We don't think highly of him, but maybe Vlade does, and maybe Cuz does too -- apparently they had been working out together in L.A.. #29 rolls around, and that's a solid grab there of a talented guy who was thought to have big potential and just had a crappy year. More twitter stuff indicating we were looking at him as a potential running mate for Cuz, so using his shooting skill as an another mega-PF. Maybe the 7'0" PF revolution is next, and our contribution. Also another Kentucky cat who again knows Cuz and WCS. Could end up being nothing, but could end being a real late round steal.
The thing in all of it is this: why are we trying to draft a PG? And if its in order to contribute this year as a rotation guy, that hope may have died with Dunn from Vlade's perspective. So if he was going to have to go prospecting, he wasn't going to be bound by position, and took his shots. That's not wrogn thinking. It may be wrong talent assessment, but the thinking behind it is solid. He wanted to get the guy many of us thought he should get, for the second year in a row. Then he tried to build back and acquire as many picks/value as he could, and use them on BPA's, because he didn't see any other PGs who could step right in. Maybe not any guards period outside the top 8.
We don't have Seth. We don't have Rondo. We just traded Belli. Ben just isn't a guy we should be relying anymore for anything. DC has his possible legal troubles.
Basically we backed ourselves into hitting an absolute home-run in FA with building a competent guard rotation to improve this rotation or somehow find a trade partner for Rudy or Ben. Otherwise, we're going to be in a lot of trouble.
Basically we backed ourselves into hitting an absolute home-run in FA with building a competent guard rotation to improve this rotation or somehow find a trade partner for Rudy or Ben. Otherwise, we're going to be in a lot of trouble.
Seth is a restricted free agent, so you can't write him out of our plans yet. Rondo isn't going to have a lot of other suitors -- if we want him back we'll have to pay him market value, but I don't think he'll break the bank. That's most of your PG minutes already accounted for without hitting a home-run in FA.
When all you know is losing, season after season and are a small market team to boot, you have to take chances and make attempts at getting high upside players. That's the strategy Vlade took here, Boogie being happy or not, he made it his decision and stuck with it. That's the situation we are dealt with, I can't fault him for that. The draft is a crap shoot as it is, we all know that. The question now is, do the Kings have the personnel to develop these players the way they want them to or are they just going to be an afterthought?
After Ben and Nik, I find it kinda mind boggling that people on here think that drafting a raw guard project is a "win now" move.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Big George at 13 is any more "win now", but we absolutely need veterans in our guard rotation. Cuz, Trill, and KK give us the luxury of developing a big without sacrificing wins (although, they'll probably just be getting D-league and garbage time minutes unless we move KK).
There's always more guards out there than bigs in the FA pool. Vlade has a plan. We don't even need a home run signing, just a solid 12ppg type of guy who isn't awful on defense.
One thing for sure: I'm definitely looking forward to summer league this year.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Big George at 13 is any more "win now", but we absolutely need veterans in our guard rotation. Cuz, Trill, and KK give us the luxury of developing a big without sacrificing wins (although, they'll probably just be getting D-league and garbage time minutes unless we move KK).
There's always more guards out there than bigs in the FA pool. Vlade has a plan. We don't even need a home run signing, just a solid 12ppg type of guy who isn't awful on defense.
One thing for sure: I'm definitely looking forward to summer league this year.
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Here's another way to look at it......irregardless of what Ben does right now, how bad would Richardson AND ICousins have to be to be worse than Bellinelli was last year. If they played just a shred of defense, it's an improvement on our roster. I don't believe these guys will play much this year, but it's not a stretch to say that Curry will be resigned. If he started and got 24-28 minutes per game at SG, I have no doubt that he would be an improvement over what Bellinelli did last year. Curry's defense would be an improvement.
There are guys out there that would be an instant improvement over what we had last year.
There are guys out there that would be an instant improvement over what we had last year.
I think Rondo is coming back. Looking through the league everyone else is basically set as far as starting PG goes except Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Chicago, Milwaukee, Dallas, maybe Houston, Memphis, Orlando, maybe Lakers.
Brooklyn: No talent there, could be worst team in the league next season
Philadelphia: Simmons will be looked at as their PG, no need to sign guy like Rondo. Saric also is a playmaker
Chicago: I guess this is an option if the Bulls want to make a makeshift playoff team. Although they were trying to trade Butler...so who knows.
Milwaukee: MCW pretty much sucks but Giannis looked great as a point guard late last year. No reason to sign Rondo.
Dallas: hahaha
Houston: They have Beverly who is injury prone and Rondo doesn't fit with Harden.
Memphis: Could be an option if Conley walks and they still want to push for the playoffs, team on the decline.
Orlando: They have Payton, do they sign the better version of him? Doubt it, but they did trade for Ibaka so who knows what they are trying to do.
Lakers: They have Russell, do they trade him and sign a vet like Rondo to set up their young guys? Doubt it.
Brooklyn: No talent there, could be worst team in the league next season
Philadelphia: Simmons will be looked at as their PG, no need to sign guy like Rondo. Saric also is a playmaker
Chicago: I guess this is an option if the Bulls want to make a makeshift playoff team. Although they were trying to trade Butler...so who knows.
Milwaukee: MCW pretty much sucks but Giannis looked great as a point guard late last year. No reason to sign Rondo.
Dallas: hahaha
Houston: They have Beverly who is injury prone and Rondo doesn't fit with Harden.
Memphis: Could be an option if Conley walks and they still want to push for the playoffs, team on the decline.
Orlando: They have Payton, do they sign the better version of him? Doubt it, but they did trade for Ibaka so who knows what they are trying to do.
Lakers: They have Russell, do they trade him and sign a vet like Rondo to set up their young guys? Doubt it.
If you don't get Conley. You must get rondo back. Anybody behind rondo on the list is backing up. You can trade but what team is willing to trade a pg better than rondo? Flip side of signing rondo is he will want 4 years. That's hard to swallow unless it's bargin priced. Not sure what rondo looks like in 2-4 years. Basically for the next 10 days we need all hands on deck securing pg via trade or full court press on Conley. Or secure rondo and hope the decline is slow over the next 4 years.
I'm not sure the draft strategy changed at all actually. Vlade said in one of the post draft interviews that last year Willie was the player he liked most long term and he just happened to be more ready to play and filling a position of need. I really think Vlade is just looking for the guy he has the most faith in when the Kings are on the clock. And for what it's worth he also felt Papagiannis will be more ready to contribute than Bender or Chriss next season.
As for the Philly trade to open up the caproom to sign Belinelli & Koufos it looks like it will essentially cost the Kings a first rounder. But Marco already returned a first rounder this draft (#22) and Koufos is still an asset as a player or trade bait. If the Kings can become a playoff team then they'll likely avoid a pick swap and give the Sixers a pick that's around #22 or not too much better than that. So all in all, not a huge deal.
But the real point is that who the Kings drafted doesn't really say much about whether they are trying to win now or not (well other than taking a draft & stash guy like Philly did with Saric) because outside of Duncan and LeBron type rookies, 1st year players don't help their teams win much. Trading the pick for a veteran would actually be the win now move. Also the short sided move as generally (Billy Owens for Mitch notwithstanding) you get mediocre vets in exchange for a pick that could be a bust or could turn out to be a cornerstone with good drafting.
Those were my picks too though I also liked Zubac at 28. But none of those guys help the Kings win next season. Baldwin can't run an NBA team yet and should be a 3rd stringer on a good team or a backup point on a bad one. Luwawu isn't better than Ben McLemore right now and might not be better for quite a while assuming he does develop and Murray is a project at least until he gets a consistent jumper.
I'd have loved that draft but those guys are still not ready to help the Kings right away. Now I'm just hoping Vlade & co know a lot more than I do (which is very likely) and their picks are better than the guys I'd take.
Again, trades and free agency are where the team has to be built in terms of competing now. Grabbing three guards in the draft balances the roster better on paper but doesn't get them to the playoffs. Unless it was Hield (who would probably be able to start at SG over Ben as a rookie) ANYBODY the Kings drafted were going to be likely 3rd string guys next season. Having just DC at PG is concerning. Having DC & Baldwin wouldn't have made me feel a whole lot better. Collison is a decent starter or great backup PG but if he gets suspended then having to start Baldwin is a non-starter anyway. He's not ready for that so getting another veteran PG through trade or FA was always going to be a necessity.
As for the Philly trade to open up the caproom to sign Belinelli & Koufos it looks like it will essentially cost the Kings a first rounder. But Marco already returned a first rounder this draft (#22) and Koufos is still an asset as a player or trade bait. If the Kings can become a playoff team then they'll likely avoid a pick swap and give the Sixers a pick that's around #22 or not too much better than that. So all in all, not a huge deal.
But the real point is that who the Kings drafted doesn't really say much about whether they are trying to win now or not (well other than taking a draft & stash guy like Philly did with Saric) because outside of Duncan and LeBron type rookies, 1st year players don't help their teams win much. Trading the pick for a veteran would actually be the win now move. Also the short sided move as generally (Billy Owens for Mitch notwithstanding) you get mediocre vets in exchange for a pick that could be a bust or could turn out to be a cornerstone with good drafting.
Those were my picks too though I also liked Zubac at 28. But none of those guys help the Kings win next season. Baldwin can't run an NBA team yet and should be a 3rd stringer on a good team or a backup point on a bad one. Luwawu isn't better than Ben McLemore right now and might not be better for quite a while assuming he does develop and Murray is a project at least until he gets a consistent jumper.
I'd have loved that draft but those guys are still not ready to help the Kings right away. Now I'm just hoping Vlade & co know a lot more than I do (which is very likely) and their picks are better than the guys I'd take.
Again, trades and free agency are where the team has to be built in terms of competing now. Grabbing three guards in the draft balances the roster better on paper but doesn't get them to the playoffs. Unless it was Hield (who would probably be able to start at SG over Ben as a rookie) ANYBODY the Kings drafted were going to be likely 3rd string guys next season. Having just DC at PG is concerning. Having DC & Baldwin wouldn't have made me feel a whole lot better. Collison is a decent starter or great backup PG but if he gets suspended then having to start Baldwin is a non-starter anyway. He's not ready for that so getting another veteran PG through trade or FA was always going to be a necessity.
Except you cannot create what isn't there. Long term, all the rookies fit next to our franchise cornerstones.
Bogdanović a good SG
Richardson potential 3&D guy
Skal potential stretch 4 with athleticism and shot blocking
Papagiannis a big C who could offensively play with either DMC or WCS because he can shoot and pass and has back to the basket game. Slimmed down DMC becomes more effective defensively as a PF.
Bogdanović a good SG
Richardson potential 3&D guy
Skal potential stretch 4 with athleticism and shot blocking
Papagiannis a big C who could offensively play with either DMC or WCS because he can shoot and pass and has back to the basket game. Slimmed down DMC becomes more effective defensively as a PF.
Those of you who are gravely disappointed in the Kings draft should try on a different perspective.
The way I see it:
Nobody got their hands on a high draft pick, so the price was obviously too high.
The best player available to the Kings at #8 was Marquese Chriss.
Apparently Vlade and Dave believed that Chriss was not ready to contribute.
So here's what they essentially got in return for Chriss:
1) Bogdan Bogdanovic
2) Georgios Papagiannis
3) Skal Labissiere
Even if you can't see an improved roster on game 1, you have to admit that this was - overall - an upgrade in talent, and all at affordable (< free agent) prices.
Then you've traded Belinelli, who we all believed had no value after last season's fiasco, for a great prospect in Malachi Richardson (at #22). Another overall talent upgrade.
So what's to be disappointed about? We've upgraded our overall talent. That gives us more chips to play with between now and game 1, and beyond.
If you look at all these new players and try to figure out who's going to play what and when, you're missing the point. We needed more talent; we got more talent. More chips.
The way I see it:
Nobody got their hands on a high draft pick, so the price was obviously too high.
The best player available to the Kings at #8 was Marquese Chriss.
Apparently Vlade and Dave believed that Chriss was not ready to contribute.
So here's what they essentially got in return for Chriss:
1) Bogdan Bogdanovic
2) Georgios Papagiannis
3) Skal Labissiere
Even if you can't see an improved roster on game 1, you have to admit that this was - overall - an upgrade in talent, and all at affordable (< free agent) prices.
Then you've traded Belinelli, who we all believed had no value after last season's fiasco, for a great prospect in Malachi Richardson (at #22). Another overall talent upgrade.
So what's to be disappointed about? We've upgraded our overall talent. That gives us more chips to play with between now and game 1, and beyond.
If you look at all these new players and try to figure out who's going to play what and when, you're missing the point. We needed more talent; we got more talent. More chips.
How about Ty Lawson, Brandon Jennings, Jerryd Bayless?
http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2016/
Not too horrible of a FA pool of stop gaps before we decide to unload the truck for Rondo
http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2016/
Not too horrible of a FA pool of stop gaps before we decide to unload the truck for Rondo
Jamal,
It's hard to reconcile this draft with "win now - keep Cousins" strategy. Unless Vlade has a huge bunny rabbit up his sleeve, he knows that the Kings are not exactly the #1 destination for FAs. Maybe he does something with a trade or two to improve the roster, but that's pretty iffy too because it's not going to be all addition to the roster - there is the player or players you have to give up. Seems to me that Vlade, with all the discussions he's had with his scouting staff and other GMs, has come to terms with the reality that to think this team is going to have a major upgrade this season is just wishful thinking and/or denial.
It's hard to reconcile this draft with "win now - keep Cousins" strategy. Unless Vlade has a huge bunny rabbit up his sleeve, he knows that the Kings are not exactly the #1 destination for FAs. Maybe he does something with a trade or two to improve the roster, but that's pretty iffy too because it's not going to be all addition to the roster - there is the player or players you have to give up. Seems to me that Vlade, with all the discussions he's had with his scouting staff and other GMs, has come to terms with the reality that to think this team is going to have a major upgrade this season is just wishful thinking and/or denial.
Lawson for a LOL to come after Karl is gone.
In all seriousness.
Rondo
Then if we want a long term contract to back Rondo up as well I'd fish on Matthew Dellavedova, we could use the toughness and he shouldn't cost us too much. If we get something better later he's still a good guy to have deep on the roster.
In all seriousness.
Rondo
Then if we want a long term contract to back Rondo up as well I'd fish on Matthew Dellavedova, we could use the toughness and he shouldn't cost us too much. If we get something better later he's still a good guy to have deep on the roster.
Rubio for Kofus...who says no? I'm serious. They kind of lost trading leverage after taking Dunn, making it wide known that they're looking to rid themselves of Rubio. They also need a backup C. How is it possible that Kosta Kofus(27) who has been in the league for 8 years is only 1 year older than Gorgui Dieng(26) who has been in the league for 3 years.
Rubio doesn't fit what the Wolves need at all.
Rubio is highly overrated. His only good skillset on offense is playmaking. He can't shoot. He can't finish at the rim. He can't grab o-rebs. At least Rondo was able to attack the rim and grab rebounds.
Good defender though.
Rubio doesn't fit what the Wolves need at all.
Rubio is highly overrated. His only good skillset on offense is playmaking. He can't shoot. He can't finish at the rim. He can't grab o-rebs. At least Rondo was able to attack the rim and grab rebounds.
Good defender though.