Kings interview Del Negro, Jackson and Mitchell for Head Coach position (Yahoo News)
- Thread starter Geoff
- Start date
When Demarcus Cousins got to the Kings the franchise was ALREADY on their fourth head coach since firing Adelman. Four coaches in five seasons before DMC was drafted. And then four more coaches in the next five years. 8 coaches in 10 seasons. And how many of those head coaches have gone on to another head coaching gig? Just one. Malone. And assuming George Karl doesn't get hired again I don't see that changing any time soon. Musselman, Theus, Natt, Westphal, Smart, Malone, Corbin, Karl. That's a decade of poor decisions, especially considering the one guy that the rest of the NBA considered head coach material was the guy that was inexplicably fired after a pretty promising start to the season.
The coaching hires have been terrible. The best guy on that list still shows promise as a head coach but has yet to lead a team to the playoffs. The second best guy on that list is probably Reggie Theus at least if we're only considering the George Karl we saw last year and not the guy with a HOF resume over three decades.
I don't think Cousins is a "butthead". I think he's incredibly thin skinned and moody and I worry about his mental toughness, but as much as the folks at STR seem to want to put the majority of the blame on DMC for the Kings continuing to be terrible, Boogie is not the Kings biggest problem. Organization dysfunction, chaos & upheaval, a lack of talent or a balance on the roster, poor choices for head coach and especially terrible drafting are bigger reasons why the Kings have been a joke of a franchise over the last decade.
I don't think Cousins needs to be coddled or pampered. I don't think he needs a "player's coach". I don't even think it's a big deal if he gets a somewhat authoritarian head coach who confronts him and/or gets in his face. Not as long as that coach knows what he's doing and is straightforward with Cousins and the rest of the players.
In fact, I think he WANTS to be coached hard by a coach who knows how to win and will help him (Cousins) become a better player and help the team finally make the playoffs. To me Messina makes infinitely more sense than a guy like Mark Jackson. Give me the no-nonsense coach with a legendary resume and a supreme command of X's and O's over the guy with a reputation of being a player's coach who wasn't a great strategist, especially when that coach has a history of creating division in a franchise.
The coaching hires have been terrible. The best guy on that list still shows promise as a head coach but has yet to lead a team to the playoffs. The second best guy on that list is probably Reggie Theus at least if we're only considering the George Karl we saw last year and not the guy with a HOF resume over three decades.
I don't think Cousins is a "butthead". I think he's incredibly thin skinned and moody and I worry about his mental toughness, but as much as the folks at STR seem to want to put the majority of the blame on DMC for the Kings continuing to be terrible, Boogie is not the Kings biggest problem. Organization dysfunction, chaos & upheaval, a lack of talent or a balance on the roster, poor choices for head coach and especially terrible drafting are bigger reasons why the Kings have been a joke of a franchise over the last decade.
I don't think Cousins needs to be coddled or pampered. I don't think he needs a "player's coach". I don't even think it's a big deal if he gets a somewhat authoritarian head coach who confronts him and/or gets in his face. Not as long as that coach knows what he's doing and is straightforward with Cousins and the rest of the players.
In fact, I think he WANTS to be coached hard by a coach who knows how to win and will help him (Cousins) become a better player and help the team finally make the playoffs. To me Messina makes infinitely more sense than a guy like Mark Jackson. Give me the no-nonsense coach with a legendary resume and a supreme command of X's and O's over the guy with a reputation of being a player's coach who wasn't a great strategist, especially when that coach has a history of creating division in a franchise.
If Vlade picks a bright guy from an excellent program like the Spurs, and if he makes it known that he's going to back up the coach when it comes to discipline, it will be a hopeful sign that he's building an organization that is meant to last. If appeasing Cousins is the #1 goal, he's going to fail miserably.
I'm just curious. How does a coach that fails to communicate with players win four championships in Europe? How is that possible? If the players aren't buying what he's selling, then the team doesn't win. People keep making blanket statements like this, and I see no proof of it. Not saying your wrong, but it just doesn't make any sense. Now if you were to tell me that the players wern't fond of his form of communication, then I can understand that. but they don't have to be fond of it. Believe me, Cousins wasn't fond of having Calapari screaming in his face at Kentucky, but the team won games, so he didn't care.
Here's an idea, why don't we just make Cousins the GM and let him pick the coach. Why don't we just make him president of the entire organization? If were going to let the tail wag the dog, lets go all in. I suspect that even Cousins wouldn't agree to that. All Cousins wants is a coach that's a straight shooter, and who has a winning philosophy. All the rest is just BS.
Here's an idea, why don't we just make Cousins the GM and let him pick the coach. Why don't we just make him president of the entire organization? If were going to let the tail wag the dog, lets go all in. I suspect that even Cousins wouldn't agree to that. All Cousins wants is a coach that's a straight shooter, and who has a winning philosophy. All the rest is just BS.
Agree with all of this. Have a "like".
I will say this though: I think DeMarcus Cousins is a soldier. 25 year old Boogie is not the same as 19 year old Boogie. I think, even if he hates the coach, he'll line up and try to execute as he's asked.
Last year, Cousins and Karl obviously did not get along. Cousins wanted fire from the coach, to hold the team accountable, to feel connected with someone who was loyal. Karl had no energy last year, so most of the hands-on work was delegated to his assistants. As a result, there was never a personal connection established between the two. Meeting once a week or whatever just isn't the same; as basketball guys, that relationship is developed by the work they do on the court together. All the rumors about Karl wanted Cousins traded and the little jabs in the media didn't help. Karl hardly had the energy to fight for his players to the refs. And without that pre-existing connection between Cousins and Karl, Boogie naturally felt that Karl was distant, didn't care about the roster, and was a "snake in the grass". Cousins didn't know George Karl and didn't trust him.
Undoubtedly this was the proximate cause of many of Cousins' blowups this season. The technical fouls, suspensions, ejections, etc. Assign blame however you want as to why the relationship between coach and star failed, whether its Karl's distant aloofness or Cousins' thin skin.
BUT: is that the *main* reason the Kings were a losing team last year? Teams can have friction in the locker room and still win; see David Blatt and the Cavs before he was fired. Teams with poor relationships can still win as long as they execute a sound plan. So the question is, were the Kings, despite their relationship and trust issues, executing Karl's plan?
I think they were. The problem wasn't that Boogie or Rondo or whoever were out there disregarding what Karl wanted them to do. The problem was that the offensive and defensive systems were absolute crap. I saw a team trying to fit a bunch of poor ballhandlers into a Dribble-Drive offense that had no structure, motion, or plan other than "run really fast in transition". I saw that bare-bones offense break down time and time again. I saw a defensive system that might just be the worst ever seen in the basketball world. *That* is why they were losing. And that is why, in every report you hear, the Kings' players want both accountability and *structure* from a new coach.
X's and O's are paramount in the modern NBA. Great coaches have more influence on the game than ever before because the complexity of the game has exploded. That's why you can take the Portland Trailblazers, strip them of 80% of their starting lineup, and still see them in the Playoffs the next season. That's why the Dallas Mavericks can make the Playoffs with a geriatric roster full of near-retirees. That's why the Golden State Warriors can lose the league MVP and one of the greatest offensive weapons ever and still crush their Playoff opponents, even in the second round.
You look around the NBA and there are so many successful teams without a dominant player like the Hawks, the Heat, the Raptors, the Celtics, the Pistons, the Mavs, etc. etc. Systems matter in the modern game. The key to rising above it all now is to have a dominant player, have a strong supporting cast, and have a system that ties all of it together.
That's why the Kings can't overemphasize the Boogie connection too much. Cousins will line up however the coach wants him to, even if he hates the coach. Obviously it would be better for a coach to be able to build a relationship with Boogie because that will make him less temperamental. But really, Boogie's volatility didn't cost the Kings many games. The X's and O's did. Get a guy who knows schemes.
Its not really that hard to find someone who will build a good relationship with Boogie; someone who will his hands dirty with his team in practice, will advocate for them in front of refs, and won't say one thing to his face while saying something else in the media will do just fine with DeMarcus Cousins. Even if that connection doesn't exist, they can still win games just fine, as long as the coach's system is getting the most out of the players. This roster was the most underachieving and misused roster in the NBA. It can win as-is, even more so if some of its holes are addressed this offseason. And all of this is independent of a relationship with DeMarcus Cousins.
I will say this though: I think DeMarcus Cousins is a soldier. 25 year old Boogie is not the same as 19 year old Boogie. I think, even if he hates the coach, he'll line up and try to execute as he's asked.
Last year, Cousins and Karl obviously did not get along. Cousins wanted fire from the coach, to hold the team accountable, to feel connected with someone who was loyal. Karl had no energy last year, so most of the hands-on work was delegated to his assistants. As a result, there was never a personal connection established between the two. Meeting once a week or whatever just isn't the same; as basketball guys, that relationship is developed by the work they do on the court together. All the rumors about Karl wanted Cousins traded and the little jabs in the media didn't help. Karl hardly had the energy to fight for his players to the refs. And without that pre-existing connection between Cousins and Karl, Boogie naturally felt that Karl was distant, didn't care about the roster, and was a "snake in the grass". Cousins didn't know George Karl and didn't trust him.
Undoubtedly this was the proximate cause of many of Cousins' blowups this season. The technical fouls, suspensions, ejections, etc. Assign blame however you want as to why the relationship between coach and star failed, whether its Karl's distant aloofness or Cousins' thin skin.
BUT: is that the *main* reason the Kings were a losing team last year? Teams can have friction in the locker room and still win; see David Blatt and the Cavs before he was fired. Teams with poor relationships can still win as long as they execute a sound plan. So the question is, were the Kings, despite their relationship and trust issues, executing Karl's plan?
I think they were. The problem wasn't that Boogie or Rondo or whoever were out there disregarding what Karl wanted them to do. The problem was that the offensive and defensive systems were absolute crap. I saw a team trying to fit a bunch of poor ballhandlers into a Dribble-Drive offense that had no structure, motion, or plan other than "run really fast in transition". I saw that bare-bones offense break down time and time again. I saw a defensive system that might just be the worst ever seen in the basketball world. *That* is why they were losing. And that is why, in every report you hear, the Kings' players want both accountability and *structure* from a new coach.
X's and O's are paramount in the modern NBA. Great coaches have more influence on the game than ever before because the complexity of the game has exploded. That's why you can take the Portland Trailblazers, strip them of 80% of their starting lineup, and still see them in the Playoffs the next season. That's why the Dallas Mavericks can make the Playoffs with a geriatric roster full of near-retirees. That's why the Golden State Warriors can lose the league MVP and one of the greatest offensive weapons ever and still crush their Playoff opponents, even in the second round.
You look around the NBA and there are so many successful teams without a dominant player like the Hawks, the Heat, the Raptors, the Celtics, the Pistons, the Mavs, etc. etc. Systems matter in the modern game. The key to rising above it all now is to have a dominant player, have a strong supporting cast, and have a system that ties all of it together.
That's why the Kings can't overemphasize the Boogie connection too much. Cousins will line up however the coach wants him to, even if he hates the coach. Obviously it would be better for a coach to be able to build a relationship with Boogie because that will make him less temperamental. But really, Boogie's volatility didn't cost the Kings many games. The X's and O's did. Get a guy who knows schemes.
Its not really that hard to find someone who will build a good relationship with Boogie; someone who will his hands dirty with his team in practice, will advocate for them in front of refs, and won't say one thing to his face while saying something else in the media will do just fine with DeMarcus Cousins. Even if that connection doesn't exist, they can still win games just fine, as long as the coach's system is getting the most out of the players. This roster was the most underachieving and misused roster in the NBA. It can win as-is, even more so if some of its holes are addressed this offseason. And all of this is independent of a relationship with DeMarcus Cousins.
I think the question is whether or not that coach knows how to communicate effectively with NBA players. It's a similar concern that you see with a lot of college coaches making the jump to the NBA. Do your methods at one level translate on a different level? And David Blatt was criticized for walking through the door in Cleveland and expecting the players to respect him based on his international accomplishments when those things (right or wrong) don't mean anything to NBA players.
That said, I'm guessing Blatt learned a lot from his first NBA head coaching experience. Lots of coaches that have gone on to win a lot of games in the NBA didn't find great success with their first head coaching job or even their second. Sometimes you have to smooth out the rough edges and figure out what works and doesn't work for you before you put it all together. And sometimes it's just circumstances or the roster you have to work with. With Blatt I think it was a bit of both. I think if Cleveland had kept Wiggins and not signed James then I think he would have been allowed more time to figure things out.
As for Messina, I don't know why the assumption is that he won't be able to connect with NBA players. He's spent a total of three years as an NBA assistant coach.
That said, I'm guessing Blatt learned a lot from his first NBA head coaching experience. Lots of coaches that have gone on to win a lot of games in the NBA didn't find great success with their first head coaching job or even their second. Sometimes you have to smooth out the rough edges and figure out what works and doesn't work for you before you put it all together. And sometimes it's just circumstances or the roster you have to work with. With Blatt I think it was a bit of both. I think if Cleveland had kept Wiggins and not signed James then I think he would have been allowed more time to figure things out.
As for Messina, I don't know why the assumption is that he won't be able to connect with NBA players. He's spent a total of three years as an NBA assistant coach.
The one doing the hiring knows the answer to that. I don't need to know. If Vlade decides to pick Messina we have all the answer we need.
I hope you are right about Cuz. In any case the one making the pick, the one deciding Cuz's fate with the Kings, knows Cuz.
In a week or so we will have a new coach and move on to the rest of our off -season agenda. Exciting times for this Kings fan.
I hope you are right about Cuz. In any case the one making the pick, the one deciding Cuz's fate with the Kings, knows Cuz.
In a week or so we will have a new coach and move on to the rest of our off -season agenda. Exciting times for this Kings fan.
I like your post and this is not being directed at you specifically.
The Calapari examples just make me shake my head. Calapari spent like 8 months DMC. That team was as loaded as any college basketball team that I have seen in 30+ years. Anyone on this board could have coached that team to 25 wins. Also, DMC choose to be coached by Calapari. The situation pretty much had everything going in JC favor. Bobby Knight could have gotten along with DMC in such a situation. It was a very, very different situation than the current situation and just an unfair comparison IMO.
The Calapari examples just make me shake my head. Calapari spent like 8 months DMC. That team was as loaded as any college basketball team that I have seen in 30+ years. Anyone on this board could have coached that team to 25 wins. Also, DMC choose to be coached by Calapari. The situation pretty much had everything going in JC favor. Bobby Knight could have gotten along with DMC in such a situation. It was a very, very different situation than the current situation and just an unfair comparison IMO.
Nice notes. I don't think Cousins needs a coach who can dominate him although, if a coach knew his X's and O's, he might welcome such a coach. Cousins has gone off on coaches who could not coach. I am not going to say that is just fine but I understand it. This may sound crazy but I think he needs to have a coach whose strength of character is such that if Cousins has a temper tantrum, he will not take it personally no matter how personal it may sound. I suspect that if the team actually won, the tantrums would not be often and if we all were truthful, he doesn't have so many tantrums. Let us not mix them up with techs.
In my simple minded way, and yes I am very simple minded, it won't take much to find a coach that can do the job. better than we have seen in a long time.
I am sure we are all hoping we can find that super special coach. I want a coach who will not approach Boogie as a problem but as someone who can make the game, Kings style, fun. Boogie has been built up to be an ogre yet when thoughtful people analyze what is going on (see above), he is not.
In my simple minded way, and yes I am very simple minded, it won't take much to find a coach that can do the job. better than we have seen in a long time.
I am sure we are all hoping we can find that super special coach. I want a coach who will not approach Boogie as a problem but as someone who can make the game, Kings style, fun. Boogie has been built up to be an ogre yet when thoughtful people analyze what is going on (see above), he is not.
I don't disagree. Plus Cousins was only 19 years old then. However, the basic reason that Calapari and Cousins got along was that all the screaming and yelling that Calapari did, were to Cousins face, and not behind his back. That was my point. Personalities can change, and Cousins can mature, but his basic core values remain the same for the most part. As Cousins said to Carmichael Dave, I don't have to like the coach. We don't have to be friends. All he has to do is be straight with me. No backstabbing or politics. Just basketball! And of course, winning!
That would be great!
How about Bird fires Vogel and hires his buddy Kevin McHale.
The Kings hire Vogel!
How about Bird fires Vogel and hires his buddy Kevin McHale.
The Kings hire Vogel!
But yeah, if Bird's press conference tomorrow is to announce that Vogel is not returning to Indiana he immediately jumps into my top three, probably even into the top spot.
Vogel, McHale, Messina. That would be a great list to be able to choose from.
I really don't see the Knicks as a threat for Vogel.
Phil Jackson won 11 championships with the Triangle offense and he will want a coach that knows and plays that offense.
The Triangle offense is not something you just pick up and run, you have to be schooled in the Triangle offense and Kurt Rambis is still Jackson's favorite to be the Knicks coach.
Phil Jackson is a very stubborn man.
I really can't see Phil Jackson suddenly abandoning his Triangle offense for Vogel.
Houston may be a bigger threat for Vogel's services.
Phil Jackson won 11 championships with the Triangle offense and he will want a coach that knows and plays that offense.
The Triangle offense is not something you just pick up and run, you have to be schooled in the Triangle offense and Kurt Rambis is still Jackson's favorite to be the Knicks coach.
Phil Jackson is a very stubborn man.
I really can't see Phil Jackson suddenly abandoning his Triangle offense for Vogel.
Houston may be a bigger threat for Vogel's services.
They can certainly communicate but it is a very different culture over in Europe than in the NBA. I have followed European leagues all my life and all the great European coaches have one thing in common, they are hard assed dictators. In Europe, basketball is the coaches' sport. The coaches have the absolute authority to punish their players however they like. There is no preferential treatment to the star players. Its all about the team and coach is the most important and feared person in basketball. From Zeljko Obradovic, to Dusan Ivkovic, to David Blatt to Ettore Messina, each and everyone of them has been a hard assed coaches who chewed up and spat out players in each and every one of their team. They are 4 of the best coaches Europe has produced in decades and there is some 15 Euroleague titles between them.
NBA is a player's league. Start like Kobe, Shaq, LeBron etc...all have more say than the coach so the whole dynamic changes. I can guarantee you than in Europe each of those 3 I mentioned would have been dumped by their team before they would dump the coach. It's a very different culture over there. Whatever coach says is gospel and you do what he says and don't ask questions. Obradovic absolutely sent home some of the biggest Serbian stars at the time home because they didn't like being treated they way he was running his national team. He sent Marko Jaric, Igor Rakocevic, Darko Milicic,Vladimir Radmanovic and a few others home from the training camp because he was not going to cater to "star" players and the team proceeded to flop in a major way, This is the guy that has won multiple Euroleague titles, national championships and cups everywhere he has gone and even with the national team numerous championships, gold, silver and bronze medals. It the approach that is gospel over there in Europe and the approach that would NEVER work in the NBA.
I feel like I have some background to talk about the differences given that I am Serbian and have intimately followed and continue to follow European basketball my whole life. On Messina, he almost destroyed Milos Teodosic's career while he was at CSKA and he is now one of the best players in Europe and a heck of a point guard (who does like to free lance and pull off a fancy play) who is undisputed leader of the CSKA and their best player by a mile. With Messina, he was riding the bench and was replaced by a less talented PG and CSKA never made it past top 4 in Messina's last 2 seasons there (after his stint with the Lakers) despite being stacked talent wise.
NBA is a player's league. Start like Kobe, Shaq, LeBron etc...all have more say than the coach so the whole dynamic changes. I can guarantee you than in Europe each of those 3 I mentioned would have been dumped by their team before they would dump the coach. It's a very different culture over there. Whatever coach says is gospel and you do what he says and don't ask questions. Obradovic absolutely sent home some of the biggest Serbian stars at the time home because they didn't like being treated they way he was running his national team. He sent Marko Jaric, Igor Rakocevic, Darko Milicic,Vladimir Radmanovic and a few others home from the training camp because he was not going to cater to "star" players and the team proceeded to flop in a major way, This is the guy that has won multiple Euroleague titles, national championships and cups everywhere he has gone and even with the national team numerous championships, gold, silver and bronze medals. It the approach that is gospel over there in Europe and the approach that would NEVER work in the NBA.
I feel like I have some background to talk about the differences given that I am Serbian and have intimately followed and continue to follow European basketball my whole life. On Messina, he almost destroyed Milos Teodosic's career while he was at CSKA and he is now one of the best players in Europe and a heck of a point guard (who does like to free lance and pull off a fancy play) who is undisputed leader of the CSKA and their best player by a mile. With Messina, he was riding the bench and was replaced by a less talented PG and CSKA never made it past top 4 in Messina's last 2 seasons there (after his stint with the Lakers) despite being stacked talent wise.
I seriously think with Messina people are just getting infatuated with the name, same way that happened with Karl.
I'm sure he was just referencing this since Stein tweeted it yesterday
Marc SteinVerified account@ESPNSteinLine
ESPN sources say the Kings have secured permission to interview Spurs assistants Ettore Messina and James Borrego for their coaching vacancy
ESPN sources say the Kings have secured permission to interview Spurs assistants Ettore Messina and James Borrego for their coaching vacancy
