The not blaming Karl 100% thread.

Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#91
#91
Dbeltz24 said:
Because he is the superstar. If he is going to want to take the credit for when they win, then he will be responsible for the L's pilled up. Same theory goes for every superstar, and the QB's in the NFL. If you get paid the most, and are the best player on the team, you will be responsible for the W-L records. Fair or not, its the way it is.
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But.. but.. you want to trade away DMC for 2-3 other players. NEVER give up a superstar as they don't pass this way often unless you get a superstar back. In my mind, it is always worth working around the problems and I think we are seeing in DMC that the patience is paying off. AND ... if you get 2 or three that will help us, that means you have to eliminate 1 or 2 other players in the top 9 or 10. Getting multiples for one seldom if ever pays off.

Can we call him anything but DC as we already have a DC in Darren Collison. ;)
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#92
#92
Dbeltz24 said:
We aren't saying player A or player B. Demarcus is top 10 in the league and he doesn't have a winning record. The other 9 have made the playoffs before and has had a winning season.

LeBron took Larry Hughes, Boobie Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, Ilgauskas to the finals. And it was also coached by a useless Mike Brown.

I find it ridiculous that DMC hasn't been able to lead his team to one winning season or playoff game. Even with Rondo and Gay as teammates this year they are 8 games under .500. I've seen worse teams get more success than the Kings, so DMC will be held accountable for 5 losing seasons.
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Honestly dude or dudette, if you think it is ridiculous because he hasn't been able to lead this team blah, blah, blah, you either have not been paying attention to the rotating bargain basement coaches (three in one year is a lot) and the ownership's troubles and that includes the early meddling by Vivek. If you know all that, you are just being a troublemaker.

As the team needs to go forward and not linger in the past which is OVER, we need to have plans for the future. Do you have anything to offer as to the future?
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#93
#93
Npliam said:
This isn't really an apples to apples comparison
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which part of it? Its pretty straight forward.

What would be slightly less so is if I carried the argument forward to its logical conclusion and displayed what I already know: that there are basically about 5 stars in the whole league having more impact.

Not James Harden, Blake Griffin, John Wall, Paul George, Anthony Davis etc. etc. are anywhere close. Boogie trails only the first ballot HOFs on the contending teams in +/- impact.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#94
#94
For those that are calling out the players for lack of effort you are missing a one key thing here.

If there is lack of effort, and I personally don't subscribe to this, then this is on the coach to motivate his players to give it. People will bring up Malone's record to devalue him as a coach but no one can ever question if his players respect him or play for him. We had a very average talent level on the roster last year overall but those guys went ut to play for the coach every night. They were not good enough overall but lack of effort was rarely an issue. Can SA be accused of playing with lack of effort? Can Denver be accused of lack of effort this season? I don't think so!

Karl has constantly thrown his players under the bus this season, quiestioning their efforts and decisions. This has alienated the players. Not because he has thrown them under the bus but because he does so with intentions of deflecting the blame. They sense he does not really care about them and he is not going to go to war for them, so they are not going to war for him either. It's a human nature and it's not only something that happens to Sacramento Kings. It's something that happens to every team.

Mike Malone used to call out his team here a number of times but players believed that his intentions are well meant. They knew he would go to war for them and in return they would do the same for him. There were a number of games in his time in Sacramento where he would face the media after the game and say that it was a crap coaching performance from himself and take the responsibility when he screwed up. When has Karl ever done that, let alone in Sacramento?

That is the difference here. Coaches as dictators has gone out the window. Coaches need to build relationships and trust with players. They need to earn their belief and they will go out and do everything in their power for him but there needs to be honesty and transparency and trust. When the coach ****s up, he needs to put his hand up and say, boys I screwed up, this is on me and I will fix it by doing this and this. What we are seeing is Karl never admitting a coaching mistake (and he had made planty this season) and in return blamed player for lack of effort and execution when in fact they are executing what he wants. These are his schemes and he is obviously being given a chance to adjust. If he doesn't he will get fired and I don't think he will change.

Respect from people is earnt. You can't just flash your credentials and demand respect because of it.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#95
#95
Dbeltz24 said:
1. Boogie is close to being as talented, when motivated he can dominate.
2. Cousins has way more help on his team than LeBron did those years.
3. The West 8th seed will likely be under .500 this year.
4. Not asking Cuz to take us to the finals, simply asking for a playoff spot.
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I think you are under rating those Cav's teams and Mike Brown of that era. Big Z was a force. Varejo was also there. That was a pretty good defensive team.
 
S

Siranthony

Starter
#98
#98
King Baller said:
Why are the Kings so poor at guarding the three point line? Game in, game out, line up does not matter, other teams shoot season highs from the perimeter.....why?
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they are not always that bad. When they play with aggression they are not bad at all. Sometimes they come out and do the old stand and raise your hand. The other team catches fire and shoots the lights out. If the Kings could play aggressive D on a nightly basis, they would be ok. But they don't. They turn it on and off for whatever reason.
 
R

randymoss1881

Starter
#99
#99
lawlman91 said:
first lets call cuz DMC not DC, as customary in kingsfans.com
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Wait that dude is talking about Cousins. I thought he was talking about Collison in that case what a clown. Trade DMC to fit a coach who will be coaching his last game ever and was begging for this job cause nobody wanted his ass. I read stupid stuff a lot but man... Some people.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#100
#100
Glenn said:
Honestly dude or dudette, if you think it is ridiculous because he hasn't been able to lead this team blah, blah, blah, you either have not been paying attention to the rotating bargain basement coaches (three in one year is a lot) and the ownership's troubles and that includes the early meddling by Vivek. If you know all that, you are just being a troublemaker.

As the team needs to go forward and not linger in the past which is OVER, we need to have plans for the future. Do you have anything to offer as to the future?
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Well since your a stat guy, DMC Estimated Wins Added 9.2 makes him tied for 15th in the league with Paul Millsap. Besides the obvious players, those ranked in front of him are Anthony Davis, Lowry, Drummond, Butler, Brooke Lopez, Monroe and Derozan. Karl Anthony towns is already at 9.1. So he's not in the top 10 for adding wins to a team, so that is surprising.

DMC is also 16th in the league for Value Added. DMC is 28th in Offensive real plus or minus, with players like Gallinari, Hayward, Reggie Jackson, Kevin love and Redick above him. Not exactly first ballot HOF in front of him on that category. In DRPM, DMC is 12th, but there are 10 other big men before him on that list.

So it's not like DMC is in the top 5 where he would be untradeable in these stats. Find 2-3 players that would be a better fit for Karl's system if they decide to keep him.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#101
#101
So the stats above are from ESPN, the stats below will be from basketball reference.

DMC is 54th with win shares at 3.8. Yikes.
At Win Shares per 48, DMC is 109. Not even top 100.
Offensive box plus or minus, DMC is 72.
Defensive box plus or minus, DMC is 101.
PER, DMC is at 13.
True shooting percentage, DMC is at 202.
Box plus or minus, he's at 51.
For value over replacement player, DMC is 37.

These numbers are very surprising to say the least.

The link is below so you guys don't think I'm crazy.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_advanced.html
 
km23

km23

Bench
#102
#102
Dbeltz24 said:
So the stats above are from ESPN, the stats below will be from basketball reference.

DMC is 54th with win shares at 3.8. Yikes.
At Win Shares per 48, DMC is 109. Not even top 100.
Offensive box plus or minus, DMC is 72.
Defensive box plus or minus, DMC is 101.
PER, DMC is at 13.
True shooting percentage, DMC is at 202.
Box plus or minus, he's at 51.
For value over replacement player, DMC is 37.

These numbers are very surprising to say the least.

The link is below so you guys don't think I'm crazy.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_advanced.html
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Jokes on you.
 
'89 Kings Fan

'89 Kings Fan

Bench
#104
#104
Dbeltz24 said:
So the stats above are from ESPN, the stats below will be from basketball reference.

DMC is 54th with win shares at 3.8. Yikes.
At Win Shares per 48, DMC is 109. Not even top 100.
Offensive box plus or minus, DMC is 72.
Defensive box plus or minus, DMC is 101.
PER, DMC is at 13.
True shooting percentage, DMC is at 202.
Box plus or minus, he's at 51.
For value over replacement player, DMC is 37.

These numbers are very surprising to say the least.

The link is below so you guys don't think I'm crazy.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_advanced.html
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You're using a bunch of stats that should really only be used to compare teammates. Here is another one for you:
Cousins on the floor: +3.3
Cousins off the floor -8.4

Unless you think he should play the whole 48, the issue isn't Cousins this season. There really is only one stat that matters:
Team Opponent's Points Per Game: 30th (Worst in the League).
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#105
#105
'89 Kings Fan said:
You're using a bunch of stats that should really only be used to compare teammates. Here is another one for you:
Cousins on the floor: +3.3
Cousins off the floor -8.4

Unless you think he should play the whole 48, the issue isn't Cousins this season. There really is only one stat that matters:
Team Opponent's Points Per Game: 30th (Worst in the League).
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I was providing other stats, to show that other players from other teams have better advanced stats. To show he isn't having as amazing of a season with advanced statistics, as some would have you believe on here.

On for that Opponents PPG, DeMarcus is apart of that stat being so atrocious. Just like every other person on this team. Should get ripped apart for that stat as much as Casspi or Rondo would.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#106
#106
Wow. Kind of depressing to see this has turned into another thread where somebody just has to make it all about his barely disguised dislike of Cousins.

I'd weed all the Cousins crap out into a new thread but ... not worth my time.

For those who are interested in what the thread was originally about, I'll start a new one. This one can continue for as long as people want to try and convince Dbeltz24 to see the light. I'm not holding out much hope on that front.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#107
#107
VF21 said:
Wow. Kind of depressing to see this has turned into another thread where somebody just has to make it all about his barely disguised dislike of Cousins.

I'd weed all the Cousins crap out into a new thread but ... not worth my time.

For those who are interested in what the thread was originally about, I'll start a new one. This one can continue for as long as people want to try and convince Dbeltz24 to see the light. I'm not holding out much hope on that front.
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Don't dislike Cousins. Great low post player. Just personally don't think a team that plays from the low post will win in this league. This league is being dominated by spacing and the 3 ball. Only see DMC being untradeable when his 3 point shot is as consistent as Ryan Anderson and when the ball doesn't get ripped from him in the low post.

And I'd trade him now when his value is at his highest, before more and more teams realize you do not need dominant post play to win in this league like you did 10 years ago.
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#108
#108
Dbeltz24 said:
So the stats above are from ESPN, the stats below will be from basketball reference.

DMC is 54th with win shares at 3.8. Yikes.
At Win Shares per 48, DMC is 109. Not even top 100.
Offensive box plus or minus, DMC is 72.
Defensive box plus or minus, DMC is 101.
PER, DMC is at 13.
True shooting percentage, DMC is at 202.
Box plus or minus, he's at 51.
For value over replacement player, DMC is 37.

These numbers are very surprising to say the least.

The link is below so you guys don't think I'm crazy.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_advanced.html
Click to expand...
What's his PER?
 
Kings_of_California

Kings_of_California

Starter
#109
#109
I cannot overstate how excited I am that Karl is on his way out. It's time for something new.

The guy is just collecting a paycheck at this point, probably always has been if we're being honest.

The fit never made sense, especially for a young, (hopefully) budding team. Karl is 64 and well-worn.

He's an established coach, which is always exciting...but he's set in his ways. That's the main issue.

He refuses to change, and doesn't even acknowledge when changes might be necessary.

Karl might be the literal definition of beating a dead horse. If something fails, try try again.


I'm ready to move on. I hope everyone else is too. Let's go Kings!
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#110
#110
Dbeltz24 said:
Don't dislike Cousins. Great low post player. Just personally don't think a team that plays from the low post will win in this league. This league is being dominated by spacing and the 3 ball. Only see DMC being untradeable when his 3 point shot is as consistent as Ryan Anderson and when the ball doesn't get ripped from him in the low post.

And I'd trade him now when his value is at his highest, before more and more teams realize you do not need dominant post play to win in this league like you did 10 years ago.
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Don't need... but CAN. And that's what we have. Screw it, let's just go out and get Steph Curry. Why didn't we think of that before?

The three ball dominant offense is in vogue. But there's always exceptions to rules. No other team has a Cousins. That's one reason other teams don't play low post style. Cousins has never been able to be stopped in the low post. Our offense is NOT the problem. IT'S DEFENSE. We have to defend the modern NBA. The modern NBA has to defend Cousins. And they can't. If we can get a defensive coach, and just a couple more (perimeter) defenders, we can be the shock team. We, right now, can score on anybody... INCLUDING Golden State.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#113
#113
The Hammer said:
Don't need... but CAN. And that's what we have. Screw it, let's just go out and get Steph Curry. Why didn't we think of that before?

The three ball dominant offense is in vogue. But there's always exceptions to rules. No other team has a Cousins. That's one reason other teams don't play low post style. Cousins has never been able to be stopped in the low post. Our offense is NOT the problem. IT'S DEFENSE. We have to defend the modern NBA. The modern NBA has to defend Cousins. And they can't. If we can get a defensive coach, and just a couple more (perimeter) defenders, we can be the shock team. We, right now, can score on anybody... INCLUDING Golden State.
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Agreed on needing wing defenders. But teams are shooting more and more 3's. And since 3>2, and the rate of those going in, I'd personally go with that style of play. Which is why I said if DMC can hit the 3 as consistent as a Strecth 4 watch out. DMC needs to become a bit more focused on the defensive side of the ball when his shot isnt falling.

And ya, had a chance to get Curry in 09, damn Tyreke.
 
Dbeltz24

Dbeltz24

Bench
#116
#116
The Hammer said:
Still waiting for your point.

But I'd actually say his best stats are 4th in the league in scoring and 5th in rebounding.
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We can talk about all the stats I posted. Would love to see you defend those. When you're ready to discuss all of the stats, I will respond. If not. Don't bother trying to make me "see the light".
 
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