Kings making Rudy available for trade?
- Thread starter Bosnian Diehard
- Start date
Why even bring Kobe to the table? Of course you would trade for a guy like him. That was not my point.
There are more nuances in the development of young players, than scrub or next Kobe.
So while he may not be the next HOF and potential GOAT, Russel may still be a 6'5 PG with good passing instincts, a jumpshot and solid defense. Doesn't sound too bad right?
But it will take Russel 2 to 3 years to learn his position and because he is not a dominant athlete, learning how to play his position is crucial.
The Kings won't take the time to develop another prospect. From all we know, they aren't even capable to develop a prospect. All they want to do is get into the playoffs.
They signed a bunch of veterans in order to do so. The timetable of this team to get as deep into the playoffs as possible is limited to the next 3 years, unless we part ways with Rondo and Gay.
But you can't expect Russel to outperform veterans like Rondo or Gay right now or in 2 years from now.
So while Russel may be the better choice for this franchise in the long run, Kings will not hurt their chances to win now and in the cmoning 2-3 years, to get him, by sending Gay to the Lakers.
There are more nuances in the development of young players, than scrub or next Kobe.
So while he may not be the next HOF and potential GOAT, Russel may still be a 6'5 PG with good passing instincts, a jumpshot and solid defense. Doesn't sound too bad right?
But it will take Russel 2 to 3 years to learn his position and because he is not a dominant athlete, learning how to play his position is crucial.
The Kings won't take the time to develop another prospect. From all we know, they aren't even capable to develop a prospect. All they want to do is get into the playoffs.
They signed a bunch of veterans in order to do so. The timetable of this team to get as deep into the playoffs as possible is limited to the next 3 years, unless we part ways with Rondo and Gay.
But you can't expect Russel to outperform veterans like Rondo or Gay right now or in 2 years from now.
So while Russel may be the better choice for this franchise in the long run, Kings will not hurt their chances to win now and in the cmoning 2-3 years, to get him, by sending Gay to the Lakers.
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If Russel is just some guy who might one day be a "good" SG. Might be a 16ppg scorer with some passing or whatnot...really who cares in the end. It wouldn't solve anything more than an eventual positional problem, by opening up a new one.
If you're going to get rid of your #2 scorer, and your #2 scorer is a legit 18-20ppg guy, then the only real things that should raise interest are either perfect fits, or potential stars at a higher level than he is. Basically future All Stars. No point in trading an already realized 18ppg scorer for a maybe we hope so future 18ppg scorer when your franchise player is now in his prime.
If you're going to get rid of your #2 scorer, and your #2 scorer is a legit 18-20ppg guy, then the only real things that should raise interest are either perfect fits, or potential stars at a higher level than he is. Basically future All Stars. No point in trading an already realized 18ppg scorer for a maybe we hope so future 18ppg scorer when your franchise player is now in his prime.
That may be true if all you take into account is scoring, even if it's very likely, that Russel will be more than just another 16ppg scorer (but who knows. Could very well be, that that's his ceiling).
Now I know, that you have a strong emphasis on defense. If we take defense into account and take a honest look on Rudy Gay it's pretty obvious, that he is not a consistently good defender.
Russel on the other hand is, just from the eyetest, one of the better perimeter defenders of this Lakers team as a 19 year old rookie. Chances are, that he will develop into a solid two way player.
And Russel as a prospect becomes even more appealing, when you believe in certain basketball trends.
Rudy Gay is one of the last players of a dying breed - a true SF, a true scorer, best at mid range and average at best in other aspects of the game like ball movement, 3pt. shooting, pick&roll, passing etc.
Russel on the other hand fits the bill of the scoring PG/Combo guard, with his pick&roll skills and jumpshooting ability. This is the type of player most teams use as the starting point of their offensive attack.
So while Russel may be only a 18 ppg scorer in the future, he may very well change the way our offense is running.
If you believe, that the scoring PG is one of the cornerstones of a successful franchise in todays NBA, you might be willing to bet on Russels potential.
But as I said - the Kings won't do it for obvious reasons.
Now I know, that you have a strong emphasis on defense. If we take defense into account and take a honest look on Rudy Gay it's pretty obvious, that he is not a consistently good defender.
Russel on the other hand is, just from the eyetest, one of the better perimeter defenders of this Lakers team as a 19 year old rookie. Chances are, that he will develop into a solid two way player.
And Russel as a prospect becomes even more appealing, when you believe in certain basketball trends.
Rudy Gay is one of the last players of a dying breed - a true SF, a true scorer, best at mid range and average at best in other aspects of the game like ball movement, 3pt. shooting, pick&roll, passing etc.
Russel on the other hand fits the bill of the scoring PG/Combo guard, with his pick&roll skills and jumpshooting ability. This is the type of player most teams use as the starting point of their offensive attack.
So while Russel may be only a 18 ppg scorer in the future, he may very well change the way our offense is running.
If you believe, that the scoring PG is one of the cornerstones of a successful franchise in todays NBA, you might be willing to bet on Russels potential.
But as I said - the Kings won't do it for obvious reasons.
Not sure why he is available, and maybe he's not and it's just a rumor. Maybe if it's true, the Lakers have decided to change horses and not rebuild through the draft, but through freeagency instead. They'll have a ton of cap space this coming offseason. Who knows, but I do like Russell and believe he has a great future. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on what he's doing this season. Kobe didn't exactly light up the league his rookie year either. The one thing that doesn't make any sense to me, is why would you trade for Gay, when the hottest rumor is that Durant is going to sign with you this summer, followed by Westbrook the following year. Last time I checked, Durant and Gay play the same position.
I look at Russell as more of a PG than a SG, but I see your point. He could easily play the role of a combo guard, especially if you have a Rondo on your team. I'd rather see him next to Rondo than Collison. At least we'd have some size on the floor. Plus I think he's a much better shooter than his current 3 pt percentage indicates.
But Vivek is a successful businessman who learns from his mistakes. You seem fixated on the Vivek's past mistakes but fail to acknowledge his more recent actions. He has handed the reins to Vlade to get things back on track and playoffs or no playoffs I think Divac has done a credible job. I also firmly believe Vivek and Vlade have a shared vision for the team that goes beyond April of 2016.
Vlade assembled a team, but he did not select the coach. It appears more and more likely that this will be corrected in the foreseeable future. Let Vlade have a year with a coach and team he has built and see what happens. I'm fairly certain Vivek (and the rest of the owners) are happy with their current GM.
Vlade assembled a team, but he did not select the coach. It appears more and more likely that this will be corrected in the foreseeable future. Let Vlade have a year with a coach and team he has built and see what happens. I'm fairly certain Vivek (and the rest of the owners) are happy with their current GM.
I'm not fixated on Vivek's past mistakes. I moved on from Malone. 
But when you hire a GM to assemble a playoff team for 2016 to get the most out of the new arena and he fails to do so, I wouldn't be too suprised, when you lose trust in said GM.
Vlade did a credible job, but also failed to address the major issue of this team - wing defense.
And I don't buy the point, that Vlade didn't select his coach. He had the chance to fire Karl in the offseason. Karl ,or more likely the national media and their hyperbole, gave him the reasoning to do so. He decided to give Karl a go. Karl is his choice to some extent.
And keep in mind, that I don't want Vlade gone. I think he deserves more time and maybe another coach. But the Kings never cared for my opinion.
But when you hire a GM to assemble a playoff team for 2016 to get the most out of the new arena and he fails to do so, I wouldn't be too suprised, when you lose trust in said GM.
Vlade did a credible job, but also failed to address the major issue of this team - wing defense.
And I don't buy the point, that Vlade didn't select his coach. He had the chance to fire Karl in the offseason. Karl ,or more likely the national media and their hyperbole, gave him the reasoning to do so. He decided to give Karl a go. Karl is his choice to some extent.
And keep in mind, that I don't want Vlade gone. I think he deserves more time and maybe another coach. But the Kings never cared for my opinion.
I'm not fixated on Vivek's past mistakes. I moved on from Malone.
But when you hire a GM to assemble a playoff team for 2016 to get the most out of the new arena and he fails to do so, I wouldn't be too suprised, when you lose trust in said GM.
Vlade did a credible job, but also failed to address the major issue of this team - wing defense.
And I don't buy the point, that Vlade didn't select his coach. He had the chance to fire Karl in the offseason. Karl ,or more likely the national media and their hyperbole, gave him the reasoning to do so. He decided to give Karl a go. Karl is his choice to some extent.
And keep in mind, that I don't want Vlade gone. I think he deserves more time and maybe another coach. But the Kings never cared for my opinion.
But when you hire a GM to assemble a playoff team for 2016 to get the most out of the new arena and he fails to do so, I wouldn't be too suprised, when you lose trust in said GM.
Vlade did a credible job, but also failed to address the major issue of this team - wing defense.
And I don't buy the point, that Vlade didn't select his coach. He had the chance to fire Karl in the offseason. Karl ,or more likely the national media and their hyperbole, gave him the reasoning to do so. He decided to give Karl a go. Karl is his choice to some extent.
And keep in mind, that I don't want Vlade gone. I think he deserves more time and maybe another coach. But the Kings never cared for my opinion.
You cannot possibly know that Vlade "had the chance to fire Karl in the offseason." I'm going to assume Vivek and Vlade discussed George Karl. Since Karl was given almost an entirely new roster to work with, the idea that he was going to be fired is just not realistic.
You sound as though you believe building a playoff team is an easy thing to do. I'll just say I totally disagree and leave it at that.
A little bit of patience will go a long way.
I think you misread my post quite a bit.
Where did I make the impression, that I would think building a playoff team is easy?
I never said, that Vlade failed. I said he failed to adress wing defense. That's not disingenuous. It's a fact. He tried to sign Wes. Wes signed with Dallas. But Vlade couldn't recover and net us a serviceable defensive roleplayer for the wing.
That's a pretty glaring hole in our roster and even a cheap role player would have helped quite a bit. We took our chances with Anderson, who doesn't look very decent. And we signed Dukan and Butler and wasted two rosterspots by doing so.
For some this might be completely neglectable, because we drafted Willie and signed solid veterans like Belli and KK. For me that's a minor area of critique (giving up too much to clear cap space, that turned into Belli and KK is another possible area of critique).
And for me Vlade isn't beyond reproach, only because he was one of my all time favorite NBA players.
If this Kings season turns out to be just another journey to the lottery, you can't exclude the GM from critique, unless you put all the blame on Karl's shoulders, which to me looks oversimplified.
This doesn't mean I want him gone. It doesn't mean he should be fired. All I wanted to express is, that I'm concerned, that Vivek might lose patience once again.
Now I'm not someone, who has any insight of the Kings organisation. So you probably know more than I do.
Where did I make the impression, that I would think building a playoff team is easy?
I never said, that Vlade failed. I said he failed to adress wing defense. That's not disingenuous. It's a fact. He tried to sign Wes. Wes signed with Dallas. But Vlade couldn't recover and net us a serviceable defensive roleplayer for the wing.
That's a pretty glaring hole in our roster and even a cheap role player would have helped quite a bit. We took our chances with Anderson, who doesn't look very decent. And we signed Dukan and Butler and wasted two rosterspots by doing so.
For some this might be completely neglectable, because we drafted Willie and signed solid veterans like Belli and KK. For me that's a minor area of critique (giving up too much to clear cap space, that turned into Belli and KK is another possible area of critique).
And for me Vlade isn't beyond reproach, only because he was one of my all time favorite NBA players.
If this Kings season turns out to be just another journey to the lottery, you can't exclude the GM from critique, unless you put all the blame on Karl's shoulders, which to me looks oversimplified.
This doesn't mean I want him gone. It doesn't mean he should be fired. All I wanted to express is, that I'm concerned, that Vivek might lose patience once again.
Now I'm not someone, who has any insight of the Kings organisation. So you probably know more than I do.
I'm not fixated on Vivek's past mistakes. I moved on from Malone.
But when you hire a GM to assemble a playoff team for 2016 to get the most out of the new arena and he fails to do so, I wouldn't be too suprised, when you lose trust in said GM.
Vlade did a credible job, but also failed to address the major issue of this team - wing defense.
And I don't buy the point, that Vlade didn't select his coach. He had the chance to fire Karl in the offseason. Karl ,or more likely the national media and their hyperbole, gave him the reasoning to do so. He decided to give Karl a go. Karl is his choice to some extent.
And keep in mind, that I don't want Vlade gone. I think he deserves more time and maybe another coach. But the Kings never cared for my opinion.
But when you hire a GM to assemble a playoff team for 2016 to get the most out of the new arena and he fails to do so, I wouldn't be too suprised, when you lose trust in said GM.
Vlade did a credible job, but also failed to address the major issue of this team - wing defense.
And I don't buy the point, that Vlade didn't select his coach. He had the chance to fire Karl in the offseason. Karl ,or more likely the national media and their hyperbole, gave him the reasoning to do so. He decided to give Karl a go. Karl is his choice to some extent.
And keep in mind, that I don't want Vlade gone. I think he deserves more time and maybe another coach. But the Kings never cared for my opinion.
I do not remember wing defender being a priority.
I remember defensive big being a priority and lack of guard depth overall.
Belinelli currently is heavily underachieving, but I would call that executed plan B after wing defenders decided to take other offers. Improve position by offense. It did not work so far.
Going from bottom feeder to one player away (wing defender) from being a very solid team in one summer... I do not see how is that not successful.
I remember defensive big being a priority and lack of guard depth overall.
Belinelli currently is heavily underachieving, but I would call that executed plan B after wing defenders decided to take other offers. Improve position by offense. It did not work so far.
Going from bottom feeder to one player away (wing defender) from being a very solid team in one summer... I do not see how is that not successful.
With most of the scoring coming from guards and wings a versatile perimeter defender is a must have in this league. So I would think a wing defender was a priority for Vlade. He just couldn't get one.
I know most think Karl is responsible for our poor defense, but maybe we have to keep in mind, that our 3 best defenders are big man. So part of our defensive weaknesses may very well be related to the way our roster is constructed.
I know most think Karl is responsible for our poor defense, but maybe we have to keep in mind, that our 3 best defenders are big man. So part of our defensive weaknesses may very well be related to the way our roster is constructed.
That would be the only way to really knock him for not filling those roles. I was pretty disappointed when they didn't seal the deal with Matthews because the reality was there were no other options out there still available at that point to fill that role. HE didn't leave a weakness because there were no other realistic options available. And he even moved on to Brewer who decided to stay with Houston. If you want to blame Vlade, blame him for not getting that group of players to sign on the dotted line, but his actions show he had almost no choice but to leave that weakness as it was.
As for Anderson, he really is a good defender. If there is any question about this team and it's defense I think it should start with the question of why coach Karl hasn't played players like Acy, Willie, and Anderson more up to this point? He's been a much bigger detriment to the teams defensive abilities than Vlade has.
Uh, he dropped a max deal on Wes Matthews, remember that whole thing? Then some signs pointed to Patrick Beverley and Corey Brewer as well. That's probably the 3 best wing defenders at their respective positions in the NBA the last few seasons. Rondo and Koufos were going on during that time but there was enough smoke to know that they were the fall back plan.