WCS
- Thread starter The Hammer
- Start date
I like that he can trail his victim, and clearly to me he does it deliberately, so he avoids a couple ways of picking up a foul. He then swats the ball from behind. With his skills he won't miss many of those blocks. It's an interesting style but when you are the fastest guy up and down the court and can leap like (insert a name of a great leaping animal), it works with a minimum of risk.
I know we are all getting a bit hyperbolic about Willie but it's very difficult to control. Barring injuries, we will have the best offensive big man and best defensive big man on the same team. Is that hyperbolic enough or is it likely and just a decent prediction of the future? I would settle for 2nd best for each of them because the combo is #1.
I know we are all getting a bit hyperbolic about Willie but it's very difficult to control. Barring injuries, we will have the best offensive big man and best defensive big man on the same team. Is that hyperbolic enough or is it likely and just a decent prediction of the future? I would settle for 2nd best for each of them because the combo is #1.
Partially copied over from the Grades thread:
Since reinserting Willie Cauley Stein in the starting lineup 5 games ago:
We are 5-0, and 4 of the 5 opponents would have been in the playoffs when we played them
Our opponents have shot: .422, .396, .356, .417, .419, for a total of 176-439FGs or a .401 FG% over the 5 game stretch. That would best the Bulls (.425), Spurs (.426) and Warriors (.428) for best mark in the league, by a significant margin.
We have finally broken into the Top 20 (#19) in DRTG, with a 106.8. The Jazz are only #17 with a 105.8 mark. Of course since ORTG says the Jazz have a better OFFENSE than we do, you have to take all those kind of metrics with a grain of salt.
Since reinserting Willie Cauley Stein in the starting lineup 5 games ago:
We are 5-0, and 4 of the 5 opponents would have been in the playoffs when we played them
Our opponents have shot: .422, .396, .356, .417, .419, for a total of 176-439FGs or a .401 FG% over the 5 game stretch. That would best the Bulls (.425), Spurs (.426) and Warriors (.428) for best mark in the league, by a significant margin.
We have finally broken into the Top 20 (#19) in DRTG, with a 106.8. The Jazz are only #17 with a 105.8 mark. Of course since ORTG says the Jazz have a better OFFENSE than we do, you have to take all those kind of metrics with a grain of salt.
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You can disagree all you want. No problem. But stating that I'm incorrect is in itself incorrect -- especially when you are pointing to FT shooting as your evidence. There have been lots of players over the years that displayed good shooting touch in the flow of the game but that weren't great or even good free throw shooters. There's more pressure when shooting FT's and not all players have the mental makeup or technique of a set shot to be good at it.
There's a big difference between shooting a set free throw and a jump shot. In summary, it's a apples to oranges comparison.
Go look at the predraft workout of WCS someone posted back in the Summer. The kid has good touch and has shown it. Whether it is actually better than Ibaka when he first entered the league is certainly debatable, but I'll bet you never saw much of Ibaka until he became somewhat of a known name and probably can't say for sure. My main point was that Ibaka was an offensive afterthought for several seasons and averaged around 6 or 7 points until developing some of his unpolished skills. There's no reason WCS can't accomplish something similar.
There's a big difference between shooting a set free throw and a jump shot. In summary, it's a apples to oranges comparison.
Go look at the predraft workout of WCS someone posted back in the Summer. The kid has good touch and has shown it. Whether it is actually better than Ibaka when he first entered the league is certainly debatable, but I'll bet you never saw much of Ibaka until he became somewhat of a known name and probably can't say for sure. My main point was that Ibaka was an offensive afterthought for several seasons and averaged around 6 or 7 points until developing some of his unpolished skills. There's no reason WCS can't accomplish something similar.
Ailene Voisin @ailene_voisin 22h22 hours ago
Ailene Voisin: Kings’ Willie Cauley-Stein wants to be superhero with human touch http://sacb.ee/5hQb
GREAT article by Voisin. WCS has goals, he has dreams, and he has confidence. He loves that he feels loved here...something we've heard before from players but always makes me smile.
The tidbit about him being a quarterback/wide receiver explains some of his movements on the court. Sure glad he grew to be too tall for football.
It's a good time to be a Kings fan.
Ailene Voisin: Kings’ Willie Cauley-Stein wants to be superhero with human touch http://sacb.ee/5hQb
GREAT article by Voisin. WCS has goals, he has dreams, and he has confidence. He loves that he feels loved here...something we've heard before from players but always makes me smile.
The tidbit about him being a quarterback/wide receiver explains some of his movements on the court. Sure glad he grew to be too tall for football.
It's a good time to be a Kings fan.
He's already a better free throw shooter.
In all seriousness, I don't know that he'll ever be the rebounder that DeAndre is, but he certainly can be as good a defender -- and even more versatile considering what he can do on the perimeter with smaller players -- and a better offensive player.
In short, yes, he can be a better "overall" player.
In all seriousness, I don't know that he'll ever be the rebounder that DeAndre is, but he certainly can be as good a defender -- and even more versatile considering what he can do on the perimeter with smaller players -- and a better offensive player.
In short, yes, he can be a better "overall" player.
I was listening to one of my favorite basketball podcasts and they were doing nba rookie comparisons based on this point in the season. When it got to WCS they threw out the common names like DeAndre Jordan, a better Javale McGee, Tyson Chandler, etc, but they all concluded that he wasn't like any of them and that WCS skill set is so unique that he has he potential to be a player we've never seen before. They said of all the athletic centers they've seen over the years, none of them had the ability to guard the point guard effectively, be a threat to stop the pick and roll, block a shot, and be the fastest guy down the court all in one play. They finished up by saying that if he ever develops a consistent/respected 8-15 footer (which he does work on often in practice) he will be among the most nightmare matchups in the nba.
There is no comparison to him, guys his size with his athleticism doesn't really exist.
When you mentioned all the thing he can do defensively a name that comes to mind for me is Draymond Green, it's hard to find 2 players that look more different but when it comes to defensive versatility and the ability to guard centers and switch to guards it's the closest I could find.
Thing is I don't get why he will be a "match-up nightmare" (and I would love if someone could explain the logic to me), when he is guarding centers I don't see the added value he gives you as oppose to a "regular" center, and when he is guarding guards I don't see the added value there since he is away from the basket and you can't use his rim-protection, and as long as you don't have a few players like him (and no team can claim that) if he switches to a guard there is going to be a mismatch on the other side of that switch.
It gives the coach much more options to play with but I don't see the "match-up nightmare".
The thing that makes Green a matchup nightmare is that you can play him at center and get away with it defensively and offensively give you max spacing and great passing- I doubt WCS will ever have that, so I think he has the potential of being a transcendent defender but as long as his offensive game isn't completely differnet (more than a mid-range jumper) I don't see why he is a match-up problem for the other team.
When you mentioned all the thing he can do defensively a name that comes to mind for me is Draymond Green, it's hard to find 2 players that look more different but when it comes to defensive versatility and the ability to guard centers and switch to guards it's the closest I could find.
Thing is I don't get why he will be a "match-up nightmare" (and I would love if someone could explain the logic to me), when he is guarding centers I don't see the added value he gives you as oppose to a "regular" center, and when he is guarding guards I don't see the added value there since he is away from the basket and you can't use his rim-protection, and as long as you don't have a few players like him (and no team can claim that) if he switches to a guard there is going to be a mismatch on the other side of that switch.
It gives the coach much more options to play with but I don't see the "match-up nightmare".
The thing that makes Green a matchup nightmare is that you can play him at center and get away with it defensively and offensively give you max spacing and great passing- I doubt WCS will ever have that, so I think he has the potential of being a transcendent defender but as long as his offensive game isn't completely differnet (more than a mid-range jumper) I don't see why he is a match-up problem for the other team.
Draymond green is who i thought of too. As different as they are they might be the only 2 guys in the league that can switch on to any player on the opposing team and not have it be considered a mismatch.
I also thought it was strange that they said he could be a match up nightmare. However i think what they meant was that he could be a threat to the opposing team overall instead of just one player. Right now hes a fantastic defensive presence, but doesn't do much on offense besides typical center high percentage shots. If he gets a shot of any kind, not only do they have to account for him potentially disrupting all sorts of offensive sets, but now you have yo account for him offensively as well, instead of sagging off him to play more help defense elsewhere.
I also thought it was strange that they said he could be a match up nightmare. However i think what they meant was that he could be a threat to the opposing team overall instead of just one player. Right now hes a fantastic defensive presence, but doesn't do much on offense besides typical center high percentage shots. If he gets a shot of any kind, not only do they have to account for him potentially disrupting all sorts of offensive sets, but now you have yo account for him offensively as well, instead of sagging off him to play more help defense elsewhere.
Calipari offered Willie a scholarship on a football field. WIllie was an all state wide receiver in football, think about nightmare coverage? A giant who ran like a cheetah?
30 miles from Lawrence, Kansas. Bill a Self had this in his back yard and passed on him...a project not good enough.
How much credit does Boogie get for the selection? No doubt he had squared off in pick up at UK over his career there.
In the 2014 Nstional Championship game UK lost to UConn, WCS was out with a foot injury. Had he been healthy, no doubt he changes the game .....rim protector and had the ability to guard 1-5.
He is a different Cat in his many takes in life, interests. An overall great person who happens to be a freak athlete. For 3 years at UK, with all the 5* players who came through, Willie was always the fastest running the lines in practice. A freak that Boogie wanted to add to the team.
30 miles from Lawrence, Kansas. Bill a Self had this in his back yard and passed on him...a project not good enough.
How much credit does Boogie get for the selection? No doubt he had squared off in pick up at UK over his career there.
In the 2014 Nstional Championship game UK lost to UConn, WCS was out with a foot injury. Had he been healthy, no doubt he changes the game .....rim protector and had the ability to guard 1-5.
He is a different Cat in his many takes in life, interests. An overall great person who happens to be a freak athlete. For 3 years at UK, with all the 5* players who came through, Willie was always the fastest running the lines in practice. A freak that Boogie wanted to add to the team.
I'm reluctant to criticize players that I know are still developing and are growing into a role. That's why I haven't said much about the rookie. WCS showed some things, but wasn't playing great to start the season. But he's been phenomenal since coming back to the starting lineup after the injuru. This is what I hoped he would be. A Tyson Chandler type player that alters games with his defensive presence.
While a players free throw shooting stroke, and percentage is used all the time as an indicator of future shooting potential, it's not a perfect indicator. Tyreke was a very good free throw shooter, but a terrible outside shooter. There are numerous players that fall into that group. Marcus Smart is a good freethrow shooter, but he's a terrible outside shooter. Then you have players like Casspi who is struggling from the line, but shooting lights out from the three. There are so many things that go into being a good shooter that their far to numerous to go into right now. Willie shot around 62/63 percent his last year at Kentucky. So what? It's meaningless.
"Match up nightmare" to me means no one can guard him. I don't think that is Willie's skill. The FEEL of the phrase is something I can agree with. He's a nightmare.
He's a nightmare defensive matchup, and in our system with a simple jumpshot addition (which he's never really worked on), it creates a nightmare scenario for the other team on offense.
Casspi has always been solid from the FT line with the exception of this year.
I used FT% because it's a better tool in looking at player's potential shooting...and along with the fact that I don't have the numbers of mid range% from either WCS nor Ibaka.
Saying WCS has shown more shooting than Ibaka coming in the NBA is dead wrong. Everything about Ibaka's shooting motion/stroke/release was better than WCS's current. (What we've seen in pre-draft and practices)
Ibaka has been in the league for a while, but don't forget that he actually came into the league with a jumper.
I'm not saying that WCS will never be able to develop a jumper, but saying that WCS showing more ability as a shooter than Ibaka coming into the league is false. It's also not very likely that a career 55% FT shooter turns into a 3pt shooting machine.
I used FT% because it's a better tool in looking at player's potential shooting...and along with the fact that I don't have the numbers of mid range% from either WCS nor Ibaka.
Saying WCS has shown more shooting than Ibaka coming in the NBA is dead wrong. Everything about Ibaka's shooting motion/stroke/release was better than WCS's current. (What we've seen in pre-draft and practices)
Ibaka has been in the league for a while, but don't forget that he actually came into the league with a jumper.
I'm not saying that WCS will never be able to develop a jumper, but saying that WCS showing more ability as a shooter than Ibaka coming into the league is false. It's also not very likely that a career 55% FT shooter turns into a 3pt shooting machine.
