Kings and free agency - part 4

[KingsCitizen]

So Vlade just tweeted for Vivek to shave.
That means no more imminent signing until maybe the regular season.
Thus we go for training camp with this roster

C - Kosta/WCS
PF - DMC/Acy/Moreland
SF - Gay/Casspi/Butler
SG - Marco/Ben/Anderson
PG - Rondo/DC/Stockton/Curry

We have more wings than bigs with this roster, which is clear indication of Karl system. So I don't Karl is on thin ice at all.

Anyway, this was one of the most exciting Kings off-season in like over a decade.
So hats off to Vlade and company for being such a bold FO, this time of the year.

Time to get some rest and see you guys around October. CIAO!

 

[steelevt]

So Vlade just tweeted for Vivek to shave.
That means no more imminent signing until maybe the regular season.
Thus we go for training camp with this roster

C - Kosta/WCS
PF - DMC/Acy/Moreland
SF - Gay/Casspi/Butler
SG - Marco/Ben/Anderson
PG - Rondo/DC/Stockton/Curry

We have more wings than bigs with this roster, which is clear indication of Karl system. So I don't Karl is on thin ice at all.

Anyway, this was one of the most exciting Kings off-season in like over a decade.
So hats off to Vlade and company for being such a bold FO, this time of the year.

Time to get some rest and see you guys around October. CIAO!

You're missing dukan. We gotta drop one of the non guaranteed. Looks like Stockton is the odd man out being the 4th pg.

 

[ockingsfan]

You're missing dukan. We gotta drop one of the non guaranteed. Looks like Stockton is the odd man out being the 4th pg.

I think Stockton gets cut and re signed to Reno. Kings have too many point guards and they obviously like Seth curry a lot.

Dukan will be assigned to Reno.

I think Moreland makes the roster since the kings are thin up front. Acy will be the 4th big.

 

[Simsman2]

Kings and free agency. Some fantastic moves this free agency no doubt.
But is quinqy acy worth the minutes. If koufos or wcs get injured or cant produce.
The answer is Henry sims. He is the final piece of the puzzzle to get Kings to the Playoffs again.
Has already proven that he can play starting minutes and put together some good stats in the nba.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Henry Sims is too good to be joining our crowded front court. There are quite a few other teams that can offer more playing time.

 

[dude12]

I like all the signings here at the end....for what's left, these are solid signings......Curry as a 3rd PG is a good deal for a guy who can provide shooting. The chances of Rondo and Collison both going down with injury is slim. Curry can stretch the floor and your deep roster guys are all going to have flaws but it seems like the good teams have guys they can bring off the bench and their best trait is shooting the 3.

I'm on board with the Dukan signing as well. Watching him in SL, the skills are there as a stretch 4 in the future. He gets a year to make good or getbetterin the D league. We don't need a vet as the 15th guy who won't get PT. We need to take a flyer on a guy like Dukan....I'm going to trust Vlade's talent evaluations.

 

[twslam07]

To be honest, I'm a little worried about PG and PF. Having Curry as your 3rd PG is not a good thing, and having Acy as your 4th big is not a good thing. I would much rather improve the 3rd PG spot over the 4th big spot as Acy and Moreland could potentially hang in there if one of our three bigs goes down. Not to mention Gay and Casspi could slide over for a bit. However, if Rondo or Collison gets hurt, I'm really not too confident in having Curry or Stockton holding down the second unit.

Waive Stockton & Dukan, send them to the D-League, sign Andre Miller, and call it an off-season.

PG - Rondo/Collison/Miller/Curry
SG - McLemore/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi/Butler
PF - Cousins/Acy/Moreland
C - Koufos/Cauley-Stein

 

[DewTheDewWithCaronButler]

If the Kings play small ball, this seems like the best option.

G Rondo-Collison
G Collison-Mclemore
F Bellinelli-Butler
F Gay-Casspi
C Cousins-Acy or Moreland or Stein

 

[dude12]

For people worried about having to play Curry, the same can be said about 80 year old Miller. We would be in trouble if he had to play more than minimal minutes. He's not the same guy that he used to be and this late in his career, every year that passes in kind of a big thing. He's even slower, can't shoot, can't defend like he used to, the coach on the floor thing is great except he's now surrounded by vet players who can do the same coach on the floor thing. Nah, the right move was to get someone that may have the upside to continue to get better.

 

[twslam07]

For people worried about having to play Curry, the same can be said about 80 year old Miller. We would be in trouble if he had to play more than minimal minutes. He's not the same guy that he used to be and this late in his career, every year that passes in kind of a big thing. He's even slower, can't shoot, can't defend like he used to, the coach on the floor thing is great except he's now surrounded by vet players who can do the same coach on the floor thing. Nah, the right move was to get someone that may have the upside to continue to get better.

No, this is wrong.

Miller showed last year that he could still play. He played better than McCallum last year who is now the Spurs 3rd PG. To put it in perspective, Miller's per36 numbers for us last year were as follows:

FG% .459 / 3PT% .231 / FT% .789 / PPG 10.0 / RPG 4.4 / APG 8.2 / SPG 1.0 / BPG 0.2 / TOPG 3.4

Who wouldn't like that production from your 3rd PG? Seriously, who? He's almost at a double-double for crying out loud.

Does he have weaknesses? Yes, he does, but I'd like you to point to a 3rd PG who doesn't have a weakness. Miller's defense, athleticism, & 3pt shooting are not very good, but he's solid everywhere else with many intangibles, high BBIQ, and a winning mentality. I'm surprised people here are willing to take a risk on an unknown commodity over a player who has produced consistently over his career. We don't need him to be super man. We just need him not to suck. I feel much, much safer with Miller than a guy with 21 minutes of NBA experience. A team trying to compete for the playoffs shouldn't be leaving things like this to chance.

Also, he averaged 20 MPG for us last year at 38, but we're not going to need him to repeat those minutes. That's more than he would ever play on this team (even with an injury to Rondo or Collison). Rondo and Collison can both average 35 MPG if the other gets injured. That leaves Miller a very manageable 13 MPG.

Last year, he was playing 12 MPG for Washington in a backup role to a starting PG who was getting the majority of the minutes and put up the exact per36 numbers as he did with the Kings. The only differences were that he turned the ball over less and was extremely more efficient from the field. The big difference between the Kings scenario this year and Washington's scenario last year is that the Kings won't need that 12-13 MPG from him unless there is an injury thus preserving him even more.

 

[peacelate]

We're all assuming Andre Miller wants to be the 3rd PG

 

[VF21]

We're all assuming Andre Miller wants to be the 3rd PG

Good point.

Andre Miller filled a need last year. That need has now been addressed and Miller's use here would be minimal at best. I don't think he envisions himself as a 3rd PG behind Rajon Rondo and Darren Collison.

 

[twslam07]

We're all assuming Andre Miller wants to be the 3rd PG

That's not the point we're arguing. We're arguing who is better to have as a 3rd PG: Miller or Curry

 

[SacKings384]

Sad that we're letting go of Andre, but I can see why we don't really have a slot for him. I'm not really even sure we have a slot for Curry. Not quite sure why he signed with us but I'm happy to have him here.

 

[peacelate]

That's not the point we're arguing. We're arguing who is better to have as a 3rd PG: Miller or Curry

You said Miller would be more durable because he would play less minutes, but I'm saying Miller may not be okay with that.

 

[pshn80]

That's not the point we're arguing. We're arguing who is better to have as a 3rd PG: Miller or Curry

We have Curry. We don't have Miller.

 

[twslam07]

You said Miller would be more durable because he would play less minutes, but I'm saying Miller may not be okay with that.

Again, you're arguing a point that was not there.

For people worried about having to play Curry, the same can be said about 80 year old Miller.

That's what is being discussed. It could be that Miller wants to be the 2nd PG, but it is all speculation. We don't even have a crappy source reporting anything on this topic. That's why I'm not even bothering to touch on that topic.

I'll stay with the original argument that was brought up: Miller is just as much risk as our 3rd PG as Curry

 

[peacelate]

For people worried about having to play Curry, the same can be said about 80 year old Miller. We would be in trouble if he had to play more than minimal minutes.

Also, he averaged 20 MPG for us last year at 38, but we're not going to need him to repeat those minutes. That's more than he would ever play on this team (even with an injury to Rondo or Collison). Rondo and Collison can both average 35 MPG if the other gets injured

The minutes this team needs from Miller may be different than the minutes he wants.

 

[dude12]

No, this is wrong.

Miller showed last year that he could still play. He played better than McCallum last year who is now the Spurs 3rd PG. To put it in perspective, Miller's per36 numbers for us last year were as follows:

FG% .459 / 3PT% .231 / FT% .789 / PPG 10.0 / RPG 4.4 / APG 8.2 / SPG 1.0 / BPG 0.2 / TOPG 3.4

Who wouldn't like that production from your 3rd PG? Seriously, who? He's almost at a double-double for crying out loud.

Does he have weaknesses? Yes, he does, but I'd like you to point to a 3rd PG who doesn't have a weakness. Miller's defense, athleticism, & 3pt shooting are not very good, but he's solid everywhere else with many intangibles, high BBIQ, and a winning mentality. I'm surprised people here are willing to take a risk on an unknown commodity over a player who has produced consistently over his career. We don't need him to be super man. We just need him not to suck. I feel much, much safer with Miller than a guy with 21 minutes of NBA experience. A team trying to compete for the playoffs shouldn't be leaving things like this to chance.

Also, he averaged 20 MPG for us last year at 38, but we're not going to need him to repeat those minutes. That's more than he would ever play on this team (even with an injury to Rondo or Collison). Rondo and Collison can both average 35 MPG if the other gets injured. That leaves Miller a very manageable 13 MPG.

Last year, he was playing 12 MPG for Washington in a backup role to a starting PG who was getting the majority of the minutes and put up the exact per36 numbers as he did with the Kings. The only differences were that he turned the ball over less and was extremely more efficient from the field. The big difference between the Kings scenario this year and Washington's scenario last year is that the Kings won't need that 12-13 MPG from him unless there is an injury thus preserving him even more.

How old is Miller?

 

[Bricklayer]

The Miller/Curry thing entirely depends on health.

As I mentioned elsewhere, this Curry has a grand total of 21 minutes of NBA experience. He was a college SG, not a terribly athletic one, who has been trying to work on his handle enough to play some point. Jimmer syndrome. But if Rondo and Collison stay healthy all season, that won't matter. We have 2 starting quality PGs, and every PG minute will be eaten up outside of garbagetime or maybe a late game need a 3pt shot type situation. As long as Rondo/DC are healthy, this is a fine signing. We might lose a little experience in the lockerroom, but given Miller's penchant for griping when he's not playing, we might also have more harmony. And obviously Curry gives us at least a chance at upside whereas Miller is wasted if he's not playing.

On the other hand if DC or Rondo were ever to go down what this signing means is that we don't have a real proven NBA level 3rd PG. It would be Rondo (or DC) and...somebody out of position or over their head. If that's the situation then you would MUCH rather have Andre Miller around as an uberexperienced 3rd PG able to step up and easily run an NBA offense in a reserve role.

 

[funkykingston]

How old is Miller?

He's 39 and will be 40 near the end of next season.

Vlade mentioned a while back that they were in contact with Miller. Obviously he played well last season, seems to like playing for Karl and Karl seems to like having him. So why isn't he back?

Maybe one of the above statements isn't true. I doubt it but perhaps Miller or Karl don't have the warm fuzzies for the other.

Or perhaps Miller isn't sure he even wants to play another year at all. Or he's still considering it and the Kings felt they couldn't wait.

Or maybe Miller wouldn't take a significant cut from the $4.6 million he made last season.

Or as stated he wasn't willing to be a 3rd PG or at least not a 3rd PG for the Kings.

We may never know. But Miller also hasn't signed anywhere else. If that remains the case he might still be an emergency option down the road if Rondo or DC go down for a significant number of games.

 

[Chubbs]

We're all assuming Andre Miller wants to be the 3rd PG

Or even that he wants to play at all.

He's two years older than mike bibby. Oldest player in the league.

 

[NoBonus]

Here is the answer you have been looking for:

Make Miller and assistant coach with the Kings... if someone gets hurt, we can put him on a 10-day contract and have him come play. I think the real reason we want Andre Miller on the team is that he is really cool; I mean really, incredibly cool. He's got a cool nickname "Dre". He was drafted in 1999 which is also a great song by Prince. He plays like a stud. And just look who was drafted in the same draft:

Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Wally Szczerbiak, Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, AK-47, Jason Terry, Lamar Odom, and Manu Ginobili.

 

[King Baller]

Here is the answer you have been looking for:

Make Miller and assistant coach with the Kings... if someone gets hurt, we can put him on a 10-day contract and have him come play. I think the real reason we want Andre Miller on the team is that he is really cool; I mean really, incredibly cool. He's got a cool nickname "Dre". He was drafted in 1999 which is also a great song by Prince. He plays like a stud. And just look who was drafted in the same draft:

Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Wally Szczerbiak, Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, AK-47, Jason Terry, Lamar Odom, and Manu Ginobili.

I can see it now, George Karl looks down his bench and says: "Dre! go get your sneakers and uni on. Vlade is coming down with a contract for you to sign. You are going in the game."

 

[funkykingston]

Here is the answer you have been looking for:

Make Miller and assistant coach with the Kings... if someone gets hurt, we can put him on a 10-day contract and have him come play. I think the real reason we want Andre Miller on the team is that he is really cool; I mean really, incredibly cool. He's got a cool nickname "Dre". He was drafted in 1999 which is also a great song by Prince. He plays like a stud. And just look who was drafted in the same draft:

Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Wally Szczerbiak, Rip Hamilton, Shawn Marion, Ron Artest, AK-47, Jason Terry, Lamar Odom, and Manu Ginobili.

Don't forget that he clearly beats out Shaun Livingston in the "Which NBA'er looks most like Richard Pryor" contest. That's reason enough to resign him.

 

[ESP47]

Didn't Miller say last year that he's either playing for Sacramento or retiring?

 

[whozit]

Didn't Miller say last year that he's either playing for Sacramento or retiring?

I think that had more to do with Karl than Sacramento.

 

[twslam07]

There are plenty of people who are bummed Miller wasn't signed over Curry, and I wasn't specifically referring to your statements when I said he might not want to play in a reduced role. Either way, I don't really care because this is a 12-13th man we are talking about.

I think Miller and Curry both bring something to the table that the Kings needed.

As far as deep benches go, PG is the most important. It's a position that requires a unique skillset that cannot be covered easily by shifting a player from another position into this role. For instance, if a SG was injured you could potentially shift a PG or SF to make up for the lack of depth. SGs and some PFs can slide over to help wit SF injuries. SFs and Cs can help with PF injuries. PFs can slide over to help with C injuries. However, very few SGs can slide over to help out with PG injuries. Could you imagine Mclemore, Klay Thompson, or JR Smith in this role? But could you imagine them helping out at SF? Some positions don't require as sophisticated of skillset to be successful.

A 3rd PG can either go unnoticed (team stays healthy at PG and there is no need for him) or can be a savior (one of your PGs goes down and he is able to step up and give productive minutes). Miller has already shown he can do that (even at his age). An undrafted, 25 year old (by the start of the season) who has logged only 21 minutes does not reassure me in this position.

This whole discussion is moot if Rondo and Collison stay healthy, but I'd rather have insurance at such a crucial position when we're trying to make the playoffs. This matters more than people think.

 

[twslam07]

My point isn't debunked....unless you think 39 is still young for an NBA player. Dude is old. It's a fact. Kings didn't resign Miller.....I'm going to guess here are several reasons for it but age has to be a major factor.

So you're expecting a player who is 1 season removed from a productive season (while keeping in mind that this said player has never relied on athleticism or a 3pt shot) to have a huge dropoff?

 

[jcwkings]

My thinking is if we get to the point where Rondo or Collison are out for a long period of time we can always make a trade or sign a vet. If one of them is out I simply see a situation where Rondo or Collison play extended minutes and Curry plays 10-15 minutes.

Karls system isnt complicated, pressure defense, get out and run, a lot of dribble drive action in the halfcourt and an emphasis on Cousins and Gay. Plus if it ever got to that point you can play Curry with Bellineli for added ball handling.