Kings trade JT, Nik and Landry to Sixers (renamed)

[The Hammer]

I'm very aware of what an exponential curve is. I'm a college graduate. Business owner. Well rounded. I simply disagree that an addition of Wesley Matthews on this team makes us better than last years Blazers. Or that Cousins is exponentially better than Aldridge.

I'll add this. Talent alone is not enough to make you a difference maker or a top 5 player. Leadership is what vaults someone with talent to be exponentially better than his peers.

I agree with you that the addition of Matthews doesn't make us a better team. But the addition of Matthews and Rondo does give a more talented starting 5, and probably a more talented top 7, if Ben makes another leap.

And speaking of leadership, Cuz is just about right there in terms of on court leadership... and basically was there (due to his partnership with Malone) before last seasons absolute crapstorm. On team USA, the best coaches in the world had glowing remarks about Cousins leadership. People who, just a couple years before, were quite sharp in their criticism of him.

This little offseason dust up between him and Karl seems to have erased some of those memories for people, but it does not mean he's forgotten how to be a leader, and lead by example of hard work and hustle. He has, and in my opinion rightly, apparently been questioning whether his loyalties to this franchise are correct.

 

[kingsboi]

The 5 stages of grief:

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptence

I think you are at Anger, I think I'm at Bargaining...

I think this fan base has been stuck in the depression stage for nearly a decade.

 

[Livinthedream]

I agree with you that the addition of Matthews doesn't make us a better team. But the addition of Matthews and Rondo does give a more talented starting 5, and probably a more talented top 7, if Ben makes another leap.

And speaking of leadership, Cuz is just about right there in terms of on court leadership... and basically was there (due to his partnership with Malone) before last seasons absolute poopoostorm. On team USA, the best coaches in the world had glowing remarks about Cousins leadership. People who, just a couple years before, were quite sharp in their criticism of him.

This little offseason dust up between him and Karl seems to have erased some of those memories for people, but it does not mean he's forgotten how to be a leader, and lead by example of hard work and hustle. He has, and in my opinion rightly, apparently been questioning whether his loyalties to this franchise are correct.

Fair enough

 

[Big Cuz 15]

wooo

target #1 wes matthews gone, target #2 monta ellis gone, target #3 rondo (breaking the bank for him or he'll sign else where). i said it before and i'll say it again. done shot ourselves in the foot again vivek. got a lil f'ng impatient yet again. last year rockets gave up their 1st rd pick to get capspace to sign chris bosh and former raptor left them at the alter. bwahahha same s777 happening here except we gave up a ton of assets (nik, future 1st + right to swap) for capspace. what i think will happen is landry part 2, we gonna get desperate and throw max change at a tier 2 or 3 player. the justification will be... oh, cap rocketing next year. the deal will look 'normal'.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

my first question is, did they get a handshake agreement from the agents/players prior to dumping all of those assets. if not, why not? second question is, if things aren't going the way of the irritating, will he burn it down yet again meaning firing divac/karl.

 

[Gilles]

The 5 stages of grief:

Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptence

I think you are at Anger, I think I'm at Bargaining...

No time for that, well we have time, Vlade must be at Acceptance 3 hours ago. Hopefully they had at least Plan B and C in mind already.

 

[sdballer]

my first question is, did they get a handshake agreement from the agents/players prior to dumping all of those assets. if not, why not? second question is, if things aren't going the way of the irritating, will he burn it down yet again meaning firing divac/karl.

Why would you think that now, after all the f ups, that they had a plan?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Interesting.

24 wins
22 wins
28 wins
28 wins
29 wins

DMC for as great as he is, he doesn't trump anything.

Agreed that LeBron is the only true trump card. No argument there.

However, you also have to put those 22, 24, 28, 29 win seasons in perspective. They didn't occur in the most common of circumstances. One could argue that the 28 and 29 win seasons weren't as bad as it seems considering all of the unique circumstances. I mean, how many teams or players can you name outside of Sacramento that had to endure several years of possible relocation, ownership changes, salary cap basement, and multiple coaching firings in a single season? Honestly, I was actually surprised they won more games this past season than in the previous 5 or 6 considering all the drama and injuries. Under normal circumstances, it's not out of the realm to think they could have won 35+ games or even got close to .500. Heck, they were 9-5 prior to Boogie's illness so it's not a huge stretch. That possibility existed because of DeMarcus Cousins. But, as we all know, they effed it up by firing Malone. That shouldn't reflect poorly upon DMC.

Let's see what happens without all the FO crap and freak illnesses. I'm willing to bet that the team wins 8-10 more games even if the roster isn't improved all that much.

 

[Livinthedream]

Agreed that LeBron is the only true trump card. No argument there.

However, you also have to put those 22, 24, 28, 29 win seasons in perspective. They didn't occur in the most common of circumstances. One could argue that the 28 and 29 win seasons weren't as bad as it seems considering all of the unique circumstances. I mean, how many teams or players can you name outside of Sacramento that had to endure several years of possible relocation, ownership changes, salary cap basement, and multiple coaching firings in a single season? Honestly, I was actually surprised they won more games this past season than in the previous 5 or 6 considering all the drama and injuries. Under normal circumstances, it's not out of the realm to think they could have won 35+ games or even got close to .500. Heck, they were 9-5 prior to Boogie's illness so it's not a huge stretch. That possibility existed because of DeMarcus Cousins. But, as we all know, they effed it up by firing Malone. That shouldn't reflect poorly upon DMC.

Let's see what happens without all the FO crap and freak illnesses. I'm willing to bet that the team wins 8-10 more games even if the roster isn't improved all that much.

Agree. I think we are a .500 team with health and stability. I've shouted many times that the circumstances are hindering our players. I used the record as an example because I think with Lebrons talent and leadership, he himself would have set this franchise straight. Much like he did with Cleveland.

Hopefully our FO takes a deep breath and stops trying to hit a home run, when all we need to do is string together a few singles.

 

[andjel]

I just want to point a few things out so you could tell me why am I wrong. These are different subjects so please share your thoughts on them.

1. You believe getting Rondo is a good thing. I do not believe this because Rondo hogs the ball up, just like Rudy and Demarcus, and creates no space when Cousins and Rudy has the ball. Those are big no-nos for our team. Also, i know it will be a year deal or maybe two years but dude has not shown anything past 2 years and like I said, could be really bad for our offense for no space, and has a high usage rate which is one of the reasons Tyreke left.

2. You really like what Vlade in the Landry trade. I dont. This trade could be HORRIBLE for a few reasons:
a. If we dont get any free agents, we just lost 2 ASSETS that we could has used for other trades to get good players ( the two assets were nik and the 1st round pick)
b. if the lottery reform happens and kings somehow get a good pick, 76ers would get our pick and swap it with ease which could make us even more of a laughing stock if the top 14 teams get equal percentage one day in lottery , Kings get lucky and you know the rest
c. if we waited a yaer , we would have more cap space anyway due to new salary cap. Again, we wasted two assets for getting better 1 year faster.
d. if you are a bad team or even small market team like sacramento, you build by the draft. Such as the spurs, cavs, warriors, thunder...not FA. Vlade has no experience in this and it is showing. Come on man.

3. You like the trade because we could inhale some big contract vets like Ty Lawson (a guy who plays no defense) or Deron ( who is done in his career). These guys are not people we are looking for. I hope we get Wes but for the tax reason in Dallas, I do not see it happening any more so I think we might have to look at Beverly, Koufas, and Tobias (if still possible).

Please enlighten me Briclayer. Go.

Ok, I will bite since you expanded audience beyond Bricklayer.


1. Tyreke left becouse gerbil thought 11 mil is too much and 9 was not. High usage rate excuse from the team that deployed IT the following year is just excuse .

2. a) If we suck we did not give 1st round pick since it is well protected, We could not use 1st round pick in any normal trade due to Hickson debacle. Nick was the only asset. We can argue how big asset he was, but according to several "sources" we were trying to use that asset for at least half a year without good enough offer. There was rumor that there was interest in Nick but I did not see any detail what exactly other teams were willing to offer. We got very nice cap space (another resource) for the player.
b) I would more worry about what happens if we win lottery. Is there any report that lottery reform is around the corner?
c) Everybody will have more cap space. Since our time is the next 2 years, waiting a year does not sound like a good option. We might not do anything this year, but we cannot wait a year to start trying.
d) Partially agree about small market comment (I would argue that CA tax factor is more important since money AFTER tax is what counts). However I would not call WCS bad draft and, as I typed too many times in the last 12 hours, there is an excellent chance that we did not give ANY draft concessions unless we actually become good team (at which point who cares about draft).

3. Do not like Deron, Rondo's suckitude might be a fluke, but Derons 3-4 years cannot anymore. Did not see anybody suggesting Deron should be the target. Regarding Ty, I would take trade with Denver: Ty for 3 amigos + Philly draft considerations. Wes, depends on the medical stuff doing it's job. Apparently he already "fooled" Dalas that he is good enough for $12 mil.
I would trade Beverly/Koufas/Tobias for 3 amigos + Philly draft considerations as well.

 

[Bballkingsrock]

Ok, I will bite since you expanded audience beyond Bricklayer.


1. Tyreke left becouse gerbil thought 11 mil is too much and 9 was not. High usage rate excuse from the team that deployed IT the following year is just excuse .

2. a) If we suck we did not give 1st round pick since it is well protected, We could not use 1st round pick in any normal trade due to Hickson debacle. Nick was the only asset. We can argue how big asset he was, but according to several "sources" we were trying to use that asset for at least half a year without good enough offer. There was rumor that there was interest in Nick but I did not see any detail what exactly other teams were willing to offer. We got very nice cap space (another resource) for the player.
b) I would more worry about what happens if we win lottery. Is there any report that lottery reform is around the corner?
c) Everybody will have more cap space. Since our time is the next 2 years, waiting a year does not sound like a good option. We might not do anything this year, but we cannot wait a year to start trying.
d) Partially agree about small market comment (I would argue that CA tax factor is more important since money AFTER tax is what counts). However I would not call WCS bad draft and, as I typed too many times in the last 12 hours, there is an excellent chance that we did not give ANY draft concessions unless we actually become good team (at which point who cares about draft).

3. Do not like Deron, Rondo's suckitude might be a fluke, but Derons 3-4 years cannot anymore. Did not see anybody suggesting Deron should be the target. Regarding Ty, I would take trade with Denver: Ty for 3 amigos + Philly draft considerations. Wes, depends on the medical stuff doing it's job. Apparently he already "fooled" Dalas that he is good enough for $12 mil.
I would trade Beverly/Koufas/Tobias for 3 amigos + Philly draft considerations as well.

I appreciate you commenting back but some of your counters were flawed.

1. high usage rate is not an excuse, they were not playing high team basketball and taking away shots.
2. a 1st round pick is a HUGE asset anywhere. It is ONLY top 10 protected and for rebuilding teams/ small market teams, 1st round picks are expecially huge. If we flirt with the lpayoffs but dont make it, we lose a top 12-14 pick. That would suck. We do care about draft if we become medicore.
3. Lawson will not come due to bad chemistry between denver and sacramento. Nothing will be discussed with those 2 teams. Rondos sucktitute has been ongoing and again, bad spacing and high ball usage.

 

[ockingsfan]

Any chance the Euro player, the Kings got in the Philly trade comes and contributes this year?

Arturas Gudaitis seems to have some potential as a backup big and rim protector.

 

[peacelate]

The Sixers are not going to be out of the top 10 in the next 3 years. Even if the Kings have to swap with the sixers, the pick will still likely be top 10.

 

[theclash4u5]

They were picked in the 2nd round for a reason. That never is a good sign for international players coming over immediately.

 

[theclash4u5]

The Sixers are not going to be out of the top 10 in the next 3 years. Even if the Kings have to swap with the sixers, the pick will still likely be top 10.

Yeah, not like there's a big deal having to swap with them if we get a top 3-5 pick and they get a top 8-10 pick, right? Where's the talent loss there?

 

[peacelate]

Yeah, not like there's a big deal having to swap with them if we get a top 3-5 pick and they get a top 8-10 pick, right? Where's the talent loss there?

You think they will be in the top 8-10? I don't. There is like a 95% chance sixers will be a bottom feeder for the next 3 years.

 

[Gilles]

Yeah, not like there's a big deal having to swap with them if we get a top 3-5 pick and they get a top 8-10 pick, right? Where's the talent loss there?

Newsflash: Kings were trying to be bad last year. It's not like they decided to pass on POs for another lottery pick, but they could've gotten to 35-38 wins easily, if they really tried. Initial reports about Collison had him coming back in March, but Kings shut him down for the season, cause they didn't need wins. If Vlade manages to fill the bench with 4-5 solid NBA players, Kings are going to be at least .500. Whether they can get to POs depends on their ability to avoid internal dysfunction flaring up.

 

[jcwkings]

We could still back out of the trade....

 

[theclash4u5]

Newsflash: Kings were trying to be bad last year. It's not like they decided to pass on POs for another lottery pick, but they could've gotten to 35-38 wins easily, if they really tried. Initial reports about Collison had him coming back in March, but Kings shut him down for the season, cause they didn't need wins. If Vlade manages to fill the bench with 4-5 solid NBA players, Kings are going to be at least .500. Whether they can get to POs depends on their ability to avoid internal dysfunction flaring up.

There's one thing we know for certain and that it's easier to get in the playoffs in the Eastern Conference than the West. That means regardless of us winning 30 or 45 games next year, if the 76ers make it, we will be losing out on that aspect of the trade. It's just a reality of the risks involved.

 

[Gilles]

Elite and even above average talent is passing on Knicks and Lakers, because they don't have at least borderline PO teams in place right now. Next two years there will be so much money on the market, that Sixers having $15-20 million more than others won't matter: top guys will go elsewhere - they'll get same money there, and mediocrity will welcome Sixers' overpaying. Actually a couple of above average guys chose Knicks this time, but that's because money actually dried up at some point. That won't be the case next two summers.
In this sense having as much money as possible right now is the best move strategically. Yes, it sucks, that no one is taking Kings' money at the moment, but Kings still have two elite players, a few good ones, can offer 1, likely even 2 starting spots. Still have a coach known to make marginal guys look pretty good as long as they are willing to work.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Why would you think that now, after all the f ups, that they had a plan?

ppl are saying vivek learnt sum thangs after the mess he created but it doesn't appear so

 

[VF21]

You are not getting what I'm saying, I think we should've done a salary dump- but we should've constructed it better... I like the product we buyed, dislike the price we paid for it- you get what I'm saying?

Should have constructed it better? You may dislike the price we paid, but it might well have been the ONLY way Philly would agree.

It's awfully easy to say we could have done better, but do you really think Vlade didn't work his hardest for the best possible deal?

Sorry, but I just don't understand how people sitting at home in front of their computers can be so sure there were better deals out there that were, for some unknown reason, overlooked or passed by.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

I think everyone is speaking under the assumption that the trade was done JUST to sign either Ellis or Mathews. What if Vlade wanted to just got rid of three mediocre roleplayers to get cap room for either A) Ellis/Mathews/Robdo or B) Rondo+2 or 3 role players???

Everyone thinks we are going after scraps but maybe Vlade just got rid of OUR scraps to upgrade our bench? Give him a chance.

 

[VF21]

Nah I am talking about my post above that. The long one

You mean the long snarky one you addressed to Bricklayer? I'll pass.

 

[VF21]

I think everyone is speaking under the assumption that the trade was done JUST to sign either Ellis or Mathews. What if Vlade wanted to just got rid of three mediocre roleplayers to get cap room for either A) Ellis/Mathews/Robdo or B) Rondo+2 or 3 role players???

Everyone thinks we are going after scraps but maybe Vlade just got rid of OUR scraps to upgrade our bench? Give him a chance.

Agreed. Vlade moved to get cap space so he would have OPTIONS available to him.

 

[allrightythen]

I have to wait and see the end result before making a judgement but I certainly understand the thinking on the trade. Stauskas was not ready to contribute and the pick is years from mattering and winning now is the favored solution to quelling all the bickering in the organization. I think Vlade feels that he has Cousins and Karl under contract for a few years and it is in their best interest to play/coach the best they can they'll put their differences aside at least at first to try and win. If he can add some more win-now talent maybe they even shock someone in the playoffs and then everyone is either happy.

So you trade Stauskas, Landry, Thompson and the pick and really the only positive contributor you're giving up is Thompson. Even if we strike out on our top targets I don't think its going to be tough to improve what Thompson and Stauskas were providing. We'll see though, I am concerned that Vivek is still meddling more than he should be.

 

[kupman]

I still love the trade. The 3 players probably would not add any wins to our record next year. I would much rather have the money. I could care less about the draft pick swaps. It is highly unlikely that a team would have traded a quality player for those 3.

 

[Bballkingsrock]

You mean the long snarky one you addressed to Bricklayer? I'll pass.

Lol, anyone can counter it but I did not mean to be rude in my post. I honestly just want my questions answered because those are the real arguments the media and nba experts and fans are making. I know bricklayer was in support for all 3 points so I was wondering if he could respond.

I would love to hear your thoughts on it as well.

 

[HndsmCelt]

So how long until the sports web sites purge the "Worst Trade Ever" stories? I doubt they will want to follow up with what Vlade did with the money.

 

[Bricklayer]

So how long until the sports web sites purge the "Worst Trade Ever" stories? I doubt they will want to follow up with what Vlade did with the money.

Of course not.

Meanwhile Vlade has been setting about building HIS team, instead of just being stuck with the one he inherited.