Willie Cauley-Stein is your newest Sacramento King
- Thread starter Darth Divac
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Can we stop pretend un-informed former stars are good at evaluating talent? they are not necessarily bad, but they sure as hell can be.
All this talk about "an experienced NBA player/All-star" doesn't mean nothing to me. some of the comments made by former stars are "first take" level comical. Most of that is because these guys and I include Webber in this category are flat out lazy when it comes to things like this- they made up their mind once, and they will bever try to back it up with any substance.
All this talk about "an experienced NBA player/All-star" doesn't mean nothing to me. some of the comments made by former stars are "first take" level comical. Most of that is because these guys and I include Webber in this category are flat out lazy when it comes to things like this- they made up their mind once, and they will bever try to back it up with any substance.
Exactly! I have been using post-draft rationalization every year over the past few drafts with obviously very poor results, I will try not to this year, maybe things will turn out better. 
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't like this pick. I know we need defensive help, especially in the pick and roll, but taking a guy this limited with the 6th pick is quite a reach in my opinion. I almost feel like we overcompensated as over the last few years we took players that we didn't work out and that hasn't gone well so now we were going to take a guy that did work out with us no matter what, no matter how much we had to reach.
I'm not saying this can't work, but we need more than a guy who can stay in front of his man on the pick and roll and block the occasional shot. Perhaps NBA coaching can develop him, he has a ton of unique potential with his athleticism, quickness, and speed for a player of his size. The rebounds need to go up. That developing mid-range shot that he says is golden really needs to be at least at some point in the next few years. Finally, I think he could be special player as one who moves without the ball. With his quickness there isn't a power forward or center in this league who can stay with him. He needs to get more coordinated in catching the ball and finishing because there is a huge opportunity for lobs and just basic passes that he can catch near the basket for an easy finish. He needs to master the back door cut.
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't like this pick. I know we need defensive help, especially in the pick and roll, but taking a guy this limited with the 6th pick is quite a reach in my opinion. I almost feel like we overcompensated as over the last few years we took players that we didn't work out and that hasn't gone well so now we were going to take a guy that did work out with us no matter what, no matter how much we had to reach.
I'm not saying this can't work, but we need more than a guy who can stay in front of his man on the pick and roll and block the occasional shot. Perhaps NBA coaching can develop him, he has a ton of unique potential with his athleticism, quickness, and speed for a player of his size. The rebounds need to go up. That developing mid-range shot that he says is golden really needs to be at least at some point in the next few years. Finally, I think he could be special player as one who moves without the ball. With his quickness there isn't a power forward or center in this league who can stay with him. He needs to get more coordinated in catching the ball and finishing because there is a huge opportunity for lobs and just basic passes that he can catch near the basket for an easy finish. He needs to master the back door cut.
I don't like the pick one bit, but welcome Willie as a King and hope he proves me wrong.
Chad Ford's recent chat with Zach Lowe sums up my POV around Cauley-Stein...give it a listen if you can. And historically, it's never a good idea to take a specialist in the lottery.
Do we need defense? Absolutely. But what good is a defensive player if you can't keep him on the court for offensive liability and spacing issues? Prove me wrong, Big Willie Style.
Chad Ford's recent chat with Zach Lowe sums up my POV around Cauley-Stein...give it a listen if you can. And historically, it's never a good idea to take a specialist in the lottery.
Do we need defense? Absolutely. But what good is a defensive player if you can't keep him on the court for offensive liability and spacing issues? Prove me wrong, Big Willie Style.
It's laughable, by which you mean it couldn't ever be true?
What if Detroit takes Melo, Wade, or Bosh instead of Darko? Don't they win at least one more championship? What if Portland takes Kevin Durant? What if Minnesota takes DeMarcus Cousins instead of Wesley Johnson? What if anybody other than GS tskes Stephen Curry or Klay Thompson? What if somebody other than SA picks Kawhi Leonard?
Championships are won by combinations of players not individuals. Get two superstars on your team, and you've got a pretty good chance. You've all decided already that I'm wrong before watching either player play a single game even though these kinds of decisions haunt teams all the time. Every single championship in the draft era is partly tied to the decisions teams make with their draft picks.
What if Detroit takes Melo, Wade, or Bosh instead of Darko? Don't they win at least one more championship? What if Portland takes Kevin Durant? What if Minnesota takes DeMarcus Cousins instead of Wesley Johnson? What if anybody other than GS tskes Stephen Curry or Klay Thompson? What if somebody other than SA picks Kawhi Leonard?
Championships are won by combinations of players not individuals. Get two superstars on your team, and you've got a pretty good chance. You've all decided already that I'm wrong before watching either player play a single game even though these kinds of decisions haunt teams all the time. Every single championship in the draft era is partly tied to the decisions teams make with their draft picks.
WCS is more than a specialist. And he's developing a midrange shot. And spacing? Cousins is downlow, WCS works the weak side for the O-rebound or for a dropoff if Cuz is doubled down low, and we have the SF and two guards outside. How will that be a spacing issue?
Frankly Ford has no idea what he's talking about. I have been watching Kentucky forever and a day and I LOVE this pick. Trust me, you will too...
Nice to see your Mr. Positive. Those articles are from two years ago. Willie has changed a lot in that time. He's a much better player now than he was then. Lest anyone forget, he didn't start playing basketball seriously until his junior year in highschool. He was extremely raw when he got to Kentucky. Calapari raved about his improvement after his freshman year. To the best of my knowledge, his sickle cell problem never came up. I have seen just about every single game that WCS has played since he got to Kentucky. So no one is going to blow smoke up my butt about what he can or can't do.
I think he'll be a better NBA player than a college player. The spacing is better, and bigs can't just camp out in the lane like they do in college. He still has some work to do. Get stronger, and improve his post game a little. But mostly, all he needs to be good at is defending, and I think he has a chance to be one of the best defenders in the NBA, if not someday, the best individual defender in the NBA.
I think he'll be a better NBA player than a college player. The spacing is better, and bigs can't just camp out in the lane like they do in college. He still has some work to do. Get stronger, and improve his post game a little. But mostly, all he needs to be good at is defending, and I think he has a chance to be one of the best defenders in the NBA, if not someday, the best individual defender in the NBA.
Just for the hell of it, what if we took Mudiay, and he doesn't become an all star. What if he never becomes a good shooter. What if he just another good athlete who never quite reachs what everyone thought he could be. That's just as possible as his becoming an all star. As a matter of fact, history tells us that it more likely. The kid played 12 games in china, and suddenly he's the next Rose, or Paul or whomever. You blame Vlade for saying that he couldn't get him in for a workout, and there wasn't much info out there on him in the way of film, and so I'm going to draft someone that I feel confident about. Why, because you think Mudiay is going to be a star? Really? I wonder if you would have felt the same way if the Kings had drafted Turner.
If the Kings had taken Mudiay without ever meeting him or seeing him work out in person, and he did not contribute, everybody would just KILL Vlade and the Kings for not learning the Thomas Robinson lesson.
The Kings took the guy they wanted (unless one of the top 5 mysteriously dropped and who knows if we would have taken Porzingis anyway). I'm a happy customer.
And he's not "just a defensive specialist" he is a shockingly good athlete. I wish we could get honest intelligence on where WCS would have gone had the Kings taken Mudiay. Ahead of Winslow still? Who knows.
But we got our man.
The Kings took the guy they wanted (unless one of the top 5 mysteriously dropped and who knows if we would have taken Porzingis anyway). I'm a happy customer.
And he's not "just a defensive specialist" he is a shockingly good athlete. I wish we could get honest intelligence on where WCS would have gone had the Kings taken Mudiay. Ahead of Winslow still? Who knows.
But we got our man.
baja, once again, I tip my hat to you.
It seems that Kings always draft your favorite prospect. Every. Year.
I mean, I clearly remember when you were praising right here Jason Thompson, Tyreke Evans, Boogie, Fredette, Stauskas and now WCS.
Impressive record
It seems that Kings always draft your favorite prospect. Every. Year.
I mean, I clearly remember when you were praising right here Jason Thompson, Tyreke Evans, Boogie, Fredette, Stauskas and now WCS.
Impressive record
Exactly! I have been using post-draft rationalization every year over the past few drafts with obviously very poor results, I will try not to this year, maybe things will turn out better.
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't like this pick. I know we need defensive help, especially in the pick and roll, but taking a guy this limited with the 6th pick is quite a reach in my opinion. I almost feel like we overcompensated as over the last few years we took players that we didn't work out and that hasn't gone well so now we were going to take a guy that did work out with us no matter what, no matter how much we had to reach.
I'm not saying this can't work, but we need more than a guy who can stay in front of his man on the pick and roll and block the occasional shot. Perhaps NBA coaching can develop him, he has a ton of unique potential with his athleticism, quickness, and speed for a player of his size. The rebounds need to go up. That developing mid-range shot that he says is golden really needs to be at least at some point in the next few years. Finally, I think he could be special player as one who moves without the ball. With his quickness there isn't a power forward or center in this league who can stay with him. He needs to get more coordinated in catching the ball and finishing because there is a huge opportunity for lobs and just basic passes that he can catch near the basket for an easy finish. He needs to master the back door cut.
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't like this pick. I know we need defensive help, especially in the pick and roll, but taking a guy this limited with the 6th pick is quite a reach in my opinion. I almost feel like we overcompensated as over the last few years we took players that we didn't work out and that hasn't gone well so now we were going to take a guy that did work out with us no matter what, no matter how much we had to reach.
I'm not saying this can't work, but we need more than a guy who can stay in front of his man on the pick and roll and block the occasional shot. Perhaps NBA coaching can develop him, he has a ton of unique potential with his athleticism, quickness, and speed for a player of his size. The rebounds need to go up. That developing mid-range shot that he says is golden really needs to be at least at some point in the next few years. Finally, I think he could be special player as one who moves without the ball. With his quickness there isn't a power forward or center in this league who can stay with him. He needs to get more coordinated in catching the ball and finishing because there is a huge opportunity for lobs and just basic passes that he can catch near the basket for an easy finish. He needs to master the back door cut.
It's harder to put up big rebounding numbers when your playing away from the basket. For that same reason, his blocked shot stats went down from the previous year, and Towns numbers went up. As for his jumpshot, if your watched every game he played, you might see him take a jumpshot every other, or every third game, and usually because it got passed to him with only a couple of ticks left on the clock. And he shot it well when the did shoot it. If he had taken a jumpshot with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, Calapari would have beheaded him. Everyone on that team had a role, and they wern't allowed to deviate from that role. Similarly, no one knew that Cousins had an outside shot when he was drafted because Calapari wouldn't allow him to shoot away from the basket. However, everyone knows it now.
Exactly! I have been using post-draft rationalization every year over the past few drafts with obviously very poor results, I will try not to this year, maybe things will turn out better.
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't like this pick. I know we need defensive help, especially in the pick and roll, but taking a guy this limited with the 6th pick is quite a reach in my opinion. I almost feel like we overcompensated as over the last few years we took players that we didn't work out and that hasn't gone well so now we were going to take a guy that did work out with us no matter what, no matter how much we had to reach.
I'm not saying this can't work, but we need more than a guy who can stay in front of his man on the pick and roll and block the occasional shot. Perhaps NBA coaching can develop him, he has a ton of unique potential with his athleticism, quickness, and speed for a player of his size. The rebounds need to go up. That developing mid-range shot that he says is golden really needs to be at least at some point in the next few years. Finally, I think he could be special player as one who moves without the ball. With his quickness there isn't a power forward or center in this league who can stay with him. He needs to get more coordinated in catching the ball and finishing because there is a huge opportunity for lobs and just basic passes that he can catch near the basket for an easy finish. He needs to master the back door cut.
I know I'm in the minority, but I don't like this pick. I know we need defensive help, especially in the pick and roll, but taking a guy this limited with the 6th pick is quite a reach in my opinion. I almost feel like we overcompensated as over the last few years we took players that we didn't work out and that hasn't gone well so now we were going to take a guy that did work out with us no matter what, no matter how much we had to reach.
I'm not saying this can't work, but we need more than a guy who can stay in front of his man on the pick and roll and block the occasional shot. Perhaps NBA coaching can develop him, he has a ton of unique potential with his athleticism, quickness, and speed for a player of his size. The rebounds need to go up. That developing mid-range shot that he says is golden really needs to be at least at some point in the next few years. Finally, I think he could be special player as one who moves without the ball. With his quickness there isn't a power forward or center in this league who can stay with him. He needs to get more coordinated in catching the ball and finishing because there is a huge opportunity for lobs and just basic passes that he can catch near the basket for an easy finish. He needs to master the back door cut.
Kentucky was basically the college equivalent of that sort of lineup. Everyone was so good that everyone's numbers/touches were depressed and largely deflated. This isn't to say that WCS would have been a 20-10 big with his defense elsewhere, but there's a lot under the surface that we haven't seen yet with his game and what he's capable of doing.
Great post, completely agree.
WCS numbers was hurt by playing the why he did for this Kentucky team (as good as they are at getting their player drafted, I think that WCS and to a much larger extent Dakari Johnson might have hurt their rep playing there).
Where you play on the court has huge impact on your rebounding, an example from the NBA is Kevin Love- between his 3rd and 4th season he went from taking 2.9 threes per 36 to 4.7- and his rebounding dropped from 15.3 to 12.3.
The only doubt I have about WCS is health issues, and I feel pretty comfortable about it because he is one of the only guys that we got a close look on here.
If WCS is healthy than all this nonesense about no spacing is not important, he is a game changer- an elite level shot blocker and pick&roll defender that can survive on switches against pretty much anyone on the court- he is a defensive mis-match, or a mis-match stopper if you will.
Offensively he is not the scrub people are making him out to be, first remember that he played in Kentucky, players not always get to show all of their skills there (Towns was sold as a very good shooter and we rarely saw him shoot last year), he can hit an open midrange jumper- so you'll have to think about leaving him completely open, plus leaving a guy like this open and going to double DeMarcus open an opportunity for us to crash the boards (see TT in the finals). And lastly if you can teach WCS to make more cuts to the basket he can bring you some points through that and offensive rebounding the way Chandler/DJ/Brandan Wright scores, the athleticism and feel for the game is there.
WCS numbers was hurt by playing the why he did for this Kentucky team (as good as they are at getting their player drafted, I think that WCS and to a much larger extent Dakari Johnson might have hurt their rep playing there).
Where you play on the court has huge impact on your rebounding, an example from the NBA is Kevin Love- between his 3rd and 4th season he went from taking 2.9 threes per 36 to 4.7- and his rebounding dropped from 15.3 to 12.3.
The only doubt I have about WCS is health issues, and I feel pretty comfortable about it because he is one of the only guys that we got a close look on here.
If WCS is healthy than all this nonesense about no spacing is not important, he is a game changer- an elite level shot blocker and pick&roll defender that can survive on switches against pretty much anyone on the court- he is a defensive mis-match, or a mis-match stopper if you will.
Offensively he is not the scrub people are making him out to be, first remember that he played in Kentucky, players not always get to show all of their skills there (Towns was sold as a very good shooter and we rarely saw him shoot last year), he can hit an open midrange jumper- so you'll have to think about leaving him completely open, plus leaving a guy like this open and going to double DeMarcus open an opportunity for us to crash the boards (see TT in the finals). And lastly if you can teach WCS to make more cuts to the basket he can bring you some points through that and offensive rebounding the way Chandler/DJ/Brandan Wright scores, the athleticism and feel for the game is there.
Living in so cal I watch a lot of Clippers. Jordan had NO offensive game. He is what he is beacause he plays with Paul and Griffin as well. He has no shot to speak of, NONE. He shoots free throws in the 30 percent range as a 27 year old Vet. I would even argue his instincts are average at best. He is just very active.
Willie has to put on a good 15 to 20 more lbs of muscle, but look at Tyson Chandler, he has the same body type.
Willie has to put on a good 15 to 20 more lbs of muscle, but look at Tyson Chandler, he has the same body type.
Agree... I don't get the Mudiay love on this forum.. I like the guy and he was my second choice but lets not talk about him as the next superstar in the league when most people here hasn't seen anything more than a few highlights. I looked all over for game footage (complete game) and I found one game.. Wasn't even in its entirety. There wasn't that much stuff out there on Mudiay after high school.
I know, right? It's not like he shuts down after 25 minutes or something. And it's not like his stamina hits a plateau and then that's it. He can condition himself where this issue might never pop up. He definitely has the body of someone that can have great conditioning. So he might not even get winded much in the NBA playing 25-30mins.
WE COULD NOT.
Nobody could.
His resume was an open ?, and his agent worked to make sure it stayed that way after the top 4 drafters. So, if you've got a guy you DO like, you DO need, you take him, and Mudiay can lose his millions for slipping. If we didn't have anybody we liked, then maybe you take a flyer on the maybe of Mudiay rather than the "don't think this is going to work" of somebody else. But WCS? Been on our radar for YEARS as a strong Cuz fit. Be stupid to pass up on getting a guy you like for getting a giant ?
Vlade made the right call. We could not strike out.
Nobody could.
His resume was an open ?, and his agent worked to make sure it stayed that way after the top 4 drafters. So, if you've got a guy you DO like, you DO need, you take him, and Mudiay can lose his millions for slipping. If we didn't have anybody we liked, then maybe you take a flyer on the maybe of Mudiay rather than the "don't think this is going to work" of somebody else. But WCS? Been on our radar for YEARS as a strong Cuz fit. Be stupid to pass up on getting a guy you like for getting a giant ?
Vlade made the right call. We could not strike out.
That's the beauty of Calapari's system. Players do not even have to "showcase their skills" to get a spot in the NBA. People know that if you listen to Calapari and do the role that he puts you in well that you will be a high first round pick. Notice how most of the high picks out of Kentucky do well in the NBA? There is a reason for that.
Also, I agree in regards to rebound numbers. He played with Towns, Noel, Embiid and Randle..... What did you expect his rebound numbers to be playing with four very good rebounding bigs?
Just watched the series. He seems like an incredibly down to earth guy who's ready to come and work his tail off.
"They call me a pro-ready defender. I'm like what? How am I supposed to defend these dudes? Have to start from the bottom and work your way up."
Not quoted exactly correct, but the general gist is right. Love this mentality. Can't wait to see him on the floor.
"They call me a pro-ready defender. I'm like what? How am I supposed to defend these dudes? Have to start from the bottom and work your way up."
Not quoted exactly correct, but the general gist is right. Love this mentality. Can't wait to see him on the floor.