Ongoing draft/lottery discussion [OPEN SPOILERS]
- Thread starter hrdboild
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It's probably 2 years before we need to fish or cut bait, this might be our last 1st round pick before that happens, and nobody is sure what DMC will want to do in two years ... so the pros and cons for our top 6 pick and the long-term impacts need to be properly and objectively weighted by a green and understaffed front office right now.
Not all that different from Hassan Whiteside. I remember there being talk (on this board and elsewhere) of the Kings possibly taking him with the #5 pick though most mock drafts had him in the 10-15 range. To see him fall all the way to 33 was a surprise and I thought the Kings hit the jackpot with Cousins and Whiteside on draft night.
Had Hassan gotten things together a few years earlier I guess they really would have.
Had Hassan gotten things together a few years earlier I guess they really would have.
That's pretty much exactly what Orlando did with Dwight Howard. They were so afraid of him bolting that they kept bringing in vets and patchwork solutions that didn't work out as planned (Gilbert Arenas anyone?) and ended up losing Howard anyway.
If you (as an organization) truly believe there's star potential in a kid sitting there at #6 you take him because it's the best thing for your franchise. If the player or player you had targeted is gone and you're less certain of the guys available then you trade down or trade out of the draft completely. It's about adding talent. Period. Ideally talent that contributes right away but you can't let Cousins be the Sword of Damocles to the extent that you mortgage the future of the franchise to appease him when it's still likely that trading for a vet won't pay the expected dividends either.
If you (as an organization) truly believe there's star potential in a kid sitting there at #6 you take him because it's the best thing for your franchise. If the player or player you had targeted is gone and you're less certain of the guys available then you trade down or trade out of the draft completely. It's about adding talent. Period. Ideally talent that contributes right away but you can't let Cousins be the Sword of Damocles to the extent that you mortgage the future of the franchise to appease him when it's still likely that trading for a vet won't pay the expected dividends either.
DX was the last to keep WCS in top6 of their mock, when everybody had him at #11 or #9 with a note of a trade to Indiana, so they had to make an explanation other than "well, everybody thinks this way now".
Marcus Camby had the same trait, and he did fine. In the end though you can't really argue with the doctors...It's a call, that none of casual fans can really judge.
Marcus Camby had the same trait, and he did fine. In the end though you can't really argue with the doctors...It's a call, that none of casual fans can really judge.
A new, but similar issue now arises that if Cauley-Stein falls and we don't take him and we don't trade the pick most mock drafts have us taking Winslow. A ton of talent, but I thought I've read that he also has questions when it comes to his care and focus for the game. That it is more of a job that he doesn't always give a full effort on which is why he disappeared a lot this season.
Now I want to be careful here because I'm not completely sure this is true, just what I remember. If it is true though it is major concern, especially when a player like that is drafted by a bad team. Maybe the Spurs could get a player to care, but not the Kings right now.
Now I want to be careful here because I'm not completely sure this is true, just what I remember. If it is true though it is major concern, especially when a player like that is drafted by a bad team. Maybe the Spurs could get a player to care, but not the Kings right now.
Interesting piece on Sactown Royalty on the likelihood of a tradedown to pick up a veteran:
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/...en-to-trading-down-in-draft-for-proven-player
And that seems to jibe with my own recollection of these sorts of things. I honestly don't recall all that many situations where a team traded down and picked up a useful veteran player in the process. It seems that most often the deals are to trade out of the draft entirely. Plenty of info swirls about the possibility but even ones like the rumored deal for the Kings to trade their 5th pick in the Robinson draft for Kyle Lowry and Houston's pick turned out after the fact to be an offer of the player for our pick with the Kings not picking up a later first in the process.
That's not to say that the Kings can't make a good deal for a veteran. The Celtics essentially traded the 5th pick for Ray Allen and I could probably think of half a dozen other examples. In fact, I just thought about Mitch Richmond for the #3 pick that became Billy Owens. So those sorts of deals may be out there and have to be considered. I just don't know how reasonable it is to see the Kings trade down a few spots while also picking up a player of value. Much more likely to trade out of the draft entirely.
The Kings trade for the Rock was an obvious win and if something like that is out there you have to pounce on it. The Ray Allen deal is a little more complicated. Yes, it was a complete win for Boston but that's because they had Rajon Rondo coming off his rookie year, Paul Pierce in his prime and were about to trade Al Jefferson and picks for KG. But Allen was a month shy of turning 32. Would that sort of deal make sense for the Kings? Because that would be the sort of trading partner we'd presumably be looking for - a team looking to rebuild and trade away veteran talent on the wrong side of 30. In the short term that's a win for the Kings but considering a lot would have to break right to even be a playoff team next season would we want to pursue a veteran heading toward the downside of their career? And obviously the current contract and ability to potentially resign that player looms large as well. A draft pick is going to be a cheap roster spot for 4 years or so.
Lots to think about. As I've said a few times, I just want to wake up Friday morning feeling better about the direction of this Kings team.
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/...en-to-trading-down-in-draft-for-proven-player
And that seems to jibe with my own recollection of these sorts of things. I honestly don't recall all that many situations where a team traded down and picked up a useful veteran player in the process. It seems that most often the deals are to trade out of the draft entirely. Plenty of info swirls about the possibility but even ones like the rumored deal for the Kings to trade their 5th pick in the Robinson draft for Kyle Lowry and Houston's pick turned out after the fact to be an offer of the player for our pick with the Kings not picking up a later first in the process.
That's not to say that the Kings can't make a good deal for a veteran. The Celtics essentially traded the 5th pick for Ray Allen and I could probably think of half a dozen other examples. In fact, I just thought about Mitch Richmond for the #3 pick that became Billy Owens. So those sorts of deals may be out there and have to be considered. I just don't know how reasonable it is to see the Kings trade down a few spots while also picking up a player of value. Much more likely to trade out of the draft entirely.
The Kings trade for the Rock was an obvious win and if something like that is out there you have to pounce on it. The Ray Allen deal is a little more complicated. Yes, it was a complete win for Boston but that's because they had Rajon Rondo coming off his rookie year, Paul Pierce in his prime and were about to trade Al Jefferson and picks for KG. But Allen was a month shy of turning 32. Would that sort of deal make sense for the Kings? Because that would be the sort of trading partner we'd presumably be looking for - a team looking to rebuild and trade away veteran talent on the wrong side of 30. In the short term that's a win for the Kings but considering a lot would have to break right to even be a playoff team next season would we want to pursue a veteran heading toward the downside of their career? And obviously the current contract and ability to potentially resign that player looms large as well. A draft pick is going to be a cheap roster spot for 4 years or so.
Lots to think about. As I've said a few times, I just want to wake up Friday morning feeling better about the direction of this Kings team.
and i reference how they handled lebron's first rodeo in cleveland. they kept putting patchwork vets to stay competitive which he ended up leaving anyways cuz they had zero assets/flexibility trying to appease bron'. we don't have the luxury that cleveland has as its his hometown. i'm all for making the playoffs but not crushing the future also. the chess master of 50 steps ahead really f'd us over by taking on really stupid contracts (landry & mbah moute->dwill), handing out 2nd rounders like it was candy on halloween, destroying team morale & receiving nothing but a kick in the ass for assets (tyreke & IT).
Patchwork vets are GREAT for us. GREAT. You know what would happen if Cousins made it tot he NBA Finals and won 60+ games multiple times? ****ing party is what would happen. Franchise saved. We have set the bar so low that all we need to do is get to the dance and make some noise and we keep the big guy's interest.
I would like this a 1000 times if I could. This is where we're at right now. We need a lot more than just "pieces to appease Cousins" because that's not going to be enough to win and losing is what will drive him out. Short-term decisions (like, say, trading Andrew Wiggins for a year of Kevin Love only to have him under perform and then miss half the playoffs anyway) can kill a franchise. We should be thinking about building the best team that we can right now not selling off every asset we have in an ill-fated attempt to limp into the playoffs and try to convince DeMarcus that a team with no future is somehow going to compete for a championship year after year.
Think about what San Antonio did to build their team -- they had a playoff team already with Duncan and Robinson. Did they sell their draft picks for journeymen to extend that short window of contention before Robinson retired? No, they kept their picks and drafted long-term projects that nobody else wanted. They drafted a 19 year old French PG who couldn't shoot at the end of the first round and carefully molded him over time into an All-Star. Then they picked a 22 year old wing player out of the Italian league who spent two more years playing in Europe before he joined the team. That's your championship core. No veteran we could trade for with the #6 pick is going to have a better impact on this team than a smart draft choice given time to develop. And that's a fact. Don't pick the wrong player -- make a safe pick ... for an elite prospect with a good attitude and a healthy work-ethic who won't stop working on their game until they're the best player in the league or close to it. Those are the difference makers in the league. We don't need "NBA ready" we don't need "he does one thing really well already, but might not get much better". That's how you make mistakes. Think about all the big hits in the draft -- they're all elite talents who got better every year of their rookie contract.
Think about what San Antonio did to build their team -- they had a playoff team already with Duncan and Robinson. Did they sell their draft picks for journeymen to extend that short window of contention before Robinson retired? No, they kept their picks and drafted long-term projects that nobody else wanted. They drafted a 19 year old French PG who couldn't shoot at the end of the first round and carefully molded him over time into an All-Star. Then they picked a 22 year old wing player out of the Italian league who spent two more years playing in Europe before he joined the team. That's your championship core. No veteran we could trade for with the #6 pick is going to have a better impact on this team than a smart draft choice given time to develop. And that's a fact. Don't pick the wrong player -- make a safe pick ... for an elite prospect with a good attitude and a healthy work-ethic who won't stop working on their game until they're the best player in the league or close to it. Those are the difference makers in the league. We don't need "NBA ready" we don't need "he does one thing really well already, but might not get much better". That's how you make mistakes. Think about all the big hits in the draft -- they're all elite talents who got better every year of their rookie contract.
It will be interesting to see what happens with Aldridge. In the fall of 2013, the was presumed to be gone. In the spring of 2014, it was assumed that he was saying but couldn't resign without giving up a ton of money.
If Aldridge ends up leaving Portland this summer, whether by free agency or sign and trade, it might give Kings good reason to believe we've got a problem.
If Aldridge ends up leaving Portland this summer, whether by free agency or sign and trade, it might give Kings good reason to believe we've got a problem.
Well, CarmichaelDave retweeted a tweet about Nik being on the trade block.
EDIT:
Carmichael Dave retweeted
NBA Legion @MySportsLegion 53m53 minutes ago
Kings are making guard @NStauskas11 available via trade, reports @KBergCBS.
EDIT:
Carmichael Dave retweeted
Kings are making guard @NStauskas11 available via trade, reports @KBergCBS.
If that's all he gets, keep him. A 21 year old SG with good size who shot 42% behind the arc after the All-Star break is worth a heck of a lot more than that. Teams like Charlotte and Detroit who really need shooters could pick Devin Booker or Mario Hezonja or they could trade for a shooter who's already spent a year in the league and is progressing as he should. If you can't get a lotto pick for him, keep developing him. He's got too much potential to give him up for nothing. Second round picks are nothing.
Well, CarmichaelDave retweeted a tweet about Nik being on the trade block.
EDIT:
Carmichael Dave retweeted
NBA Legion @MySportsLegion 53m53 minutes ago
Kings are making guard @NStauskas11 available via trade, reports @KBergCBS.
EDIT:
Carmichael Dave retweeted
Kings are making guard @NStauskas11 available via trade, reports @KBergCBS.
Heres the article on Nik, most importantly it says we are discussing a Lawson deal.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer...te-within-knicks-on-whether-to-trade-4th-pick
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer...te-within-knicks-on-whether-to-trade-4th-pick
Per CBS Sports-
Though the talks have yet to gain traction, Sacramento and Denver have discussed a deal involving point guard Ty Lawson, league sources say. Kings coach George Karl is desperate to find a starting point guard, and pressure is coming from owner Vivek Ranadive to make the playoffs this season.
Though the talks have yet to gain traction, Sacramento and Denver have discussed a deal involving point guard Ty Lawson, league sources say. Kings coach George Karl is desperate to find a starting point guard, and pressure is coming from owner Vivek Ranadive to make the playoffs this season.
Pay attention everybody, this is how you screw up a franchise. Vivek giving any kind of ultimatum at this point is absurd to begin with after the massive tank job he was complicit in this season. If George Karl does take this team to the playoffs next year it will be in spite of his meddling, not the other way around. And anyone making personnel decisions out of desperation and artificially imposed deadlines is likely to fail. We won 29 games last year. We are not anywhere close to a "playoffs or bust" stage in our natural development. Maybe if you can sign an All-Star PG like Rondo and you make a smart trade and a smart draft choice and everything breaks right we could be in the playoffs. That's a good goal to have, but realistically we need to be adding the foundational pieces now who will help us become a perennial contender.
Chris Mannix @ChrisMannixSI 25m25 minutes ago
Told Frank Kaminsky had a solid workout in Sacramento today. Kings intrigued by how Kaminsky would complement DeMarcus Cousins.
Told Frank Kaminsky had a solid workout in Sacramento today. Kings intrigued by how Kaminsky would complement DeMarcus Cousins.
Good, lets trade down and get Kaminsky. He's excellent passing big man who stretches the floor with his smooth shot. Also, very good around the interior with crafty moves to score effectively inside. The kind of guy who will probably have a solid 10+ year career in NBA. Oh, and he's better than JT right now overall.