Ongoing draft/lottery discussion [OPEN SPOILERS]

[Warhawk]

In no way am I suggesting that NBA executives dictate who they are going to draft by looking at a mock draft. However, mock drafts are usually dictated by where they think teams will take a player, and it just so happens that DX is one of the more trustworthy sites when it comes to this.

I understand that, but....with all due respect....who cares what DX thinks?

I'd make the statement that "I hope he's available for us to choose" rather than "I hope DX shows him falling to us." This mentality that what a mock draft shows or that what the draft machine calculates on the 17th attempt or that a trade works great in a video game just baffles me. It's all just candle smoke in a forest fire. Means absolutely nothing.

I'm not picking on you, your post just was convenient to use as an example of how I feel about these things. Obviously, if you want to put stock into the mock more than I care to, knock yourself out!

 

[Kingster]

True, but here's the big difference for me - Tyreke was always attacking off the dribble. He was a lead guard whose M.O. was to create offense for himself and was often shooting off the dribble with a defender on him. WCS will be a spot up shooter who is only looking to take wide open shots to punish teams for doubling Cuz. If he can hit those shots regularly enough to help space the floor then he's as good a shooter as he needs to be. If somehow he becomes a true threat out to three point range and the Kings version of Ibaka? Well that would just be gravy.

Unfortunately I'm starting to think Cauley-Stein goes #4 or #5.

I don't think there is a difference. Shooting standstill, off the dribble, off of one foot, is all irrelevant if it's in an empty gym with nobody within 15 feet of you except the ball boy. Who are you going to believe - your own eyes in college competition or watching him in an empty gym with nobody guarding him? These little vignettes about a guy making shots in a gym are just put out there to gin up more interest by the agent because the WCS rep is that of being a poor outside shooter. By the way, if he does go #4 or #5 I'd thank my lucky stars.

 

[kingjatt]

I never get excited by people hitting jumpers in an empty gym.

exactly, learned my lesson after watching T-Rob sink jumper after jumper during one of his workouts.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I figured we'd miss out on WCS long before the mocks.

Why? Because he's a perfect fit, and we're the Kings. The pessimism runs deep.

I'm just hoping Winslow, or whoever we get, ends up being a nice consolation prize.

OUCH! but I get it. The up side to WCS going early would have to be talent slipping. If it's Winslow... great we could use the D. If it's Muiday then we might be able to trade down for a better fit and a bonus.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I don't think there is a difference. Shooting standstill, off the dribble, off of one foot, is all irrelevant if it's in an empty gym with nobody within 15 feet of you except the ball boy. Who are you going to believe - your own eyes in college competition or watching him in an empty gym with nobody guarding him? These little vignettes about a guy making shots in a gym are just put out there to gin up more interest by the agent because the WCS rep is that of being a poor outside shooter. By the way, if he does go #4 or #5 I'd thank my lucky stars.

Well that's just not true. Shooting off the dribble is very different than catch and shoot, even in an empty gym. I understand that it's convenient for you to make such an argument though since it fits your narrative re WCS.

I generally agree though that hitting shots with no one guarding you isn't all that impressive. These are NBA players, it would be worrying if they couldn't.

Obviously you'd be happy if WCS went before our pick, as you don't value defense.

 

[twslam07]

I understand that, but....with all due respect....who cares what DX thinks?

I'd make the statement that "I hope he's available for us to choose" rather than "I hope DX shows him falling to us." This mentality that what a mock draft shows or that what the draft machine calculates on the 17th attempt or that a trade works great in a video game just baffles me. It's all just candle smoke in a forest fire. Means absolutely nothing.

I'm not picking on you, your post just was convenient to use as an example of how I feel about these things. Obviously, if you want to put stock into the mock more than I care to, knock yourself out!

With all due respect, I value DX's opinion much more than many of the individuals here including yourself. That is why when I see him going 5 in their recent mock, it worries me. It doesn't mean he is for sure going to go 5, but when a site that has a reputation of being one of the stronger NBA draft sites has Cauley-Stein going at 5, yeah, it worries me.

Do I not have right to worry about getting or not getting a player I really want? Is this fear really that far out there? I apologize if it is...

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I understand that, but....with all due respect....who cares what DX thinks?

I'd make the statement that "I hope he's available for us to choose" rather than "I hope DX shows him falling to us." This mentality that what a mock draft shows or that what the draft machine calculates on the 17th attempt or that a trade works great in a video game just baffles me. It's all just candle smoke in a forest fire. Means absolutely nothing.

I'd agree that at this point in time specific position in the mocks (DX or otherwise) means very little, though general position is usually solid (for instance, a guy in the second round now is unlikely to jump into the lottery at this point). So the mere fact that WCS is around 5 suggests he might or might not be available in our range. Teams generally haven't made any draft decisions at this point, so it's all up in the air.

On the morning of the draft, on the other hand, the DX mock is often very accurate. He's pretty well plugged in, and as the draft comes set he does get some specific info that appears to be legit. For instance, I believe his "mock" was the first to suggest that Tristan Thompson would go a surprising #4 when his stock had been kind of low lottery before the morning of the draft. At the same time, he's not 100% accurate even on the morning of the draft. But what I'm saying is, right now just look at ranges. On the morning of the draft if his mock says something unexpected, it might well be about to happen.

 

[twslam07]

Obviously you'd be happy if WCS went before our pick, as you don't value defense.

As much as I disagree with Kingster about Cauley-Stein, that statement is a little unfair. His premise is on selecting a player who can play at a high level on the defensive side and offensive side. That doesn't mean he doesn't value defense. He would just prefer to have players who are good on both ends of the floor.

To me, it sounds like Kingster would much prefer a player who is good on defense & good on offense compared to a player great on defense & average on offense (or excellent on defense & below average on offense). I am more than happy to take a player that is elite on defense who lacks certain offensive attributes.

 

[Gilles]

As was mentioned quite a few times when describing draft process, most teams put together their board of 30-50 at least once a week during the season and much more often in May and June. So if you put an executive on the spot right now, he will tell you, who his team would take right this moment. Thing is those boards change, plus teams just don't know, who they take, simply because they don't know, who will be taken before their pick. So mocks are rather useless until probably June, 24th this year. DX always maintained, that their mock is based on their vision of talent and team needs, though in the couple of days before the draft they usually move players around to comply with their perception of the actual draft based on rumors.
[Captain beat me, while I was writing long post]

People overreact to shooting in the open gym: elite shooters will make at least 46-47 out of 50 3pt shots, good ones would get 42-43. People also miss the fact, that Willie's shooting motion is rather slow. So no, WCS is certainly not Ibaka. Still this should help in killing "his defender will just park in the paint" narrative.

exactly, learned my lesson after watching T-Rob sink jumper after jumper during one of his workouts.

T-Rob didn't work out for Kings, and since all the teams ahead passed on him, it was obviously creative editing, trying to sell T-Rob to opponent.

 

[funkykingston]

I don't think there is a difference. Shooting standstill, off the dribble, off of one foot, is all irrelevant if it's in an empty gym with nobody within 15 feet of you except the ball boy. Who are you going to believe - your own eyes in college competition or watching him in an empty gym with nobody guarding him? These little vignettes about a guy making shots in a gym are just put out there to gin up more interest by the agent because the WCS rep is that of being a poor outside shooter. By the way, if he does go #4 or #5 I'd thank my lucky stars.

I would take issue with two of your statements.

One is that there is absolutely a fundamental difference between catch and shoot situations and shooting off the dribble. Mechanically the latter is a much more involved motion and a much harder skill to master. Also much harder to drill repetitively as each repetition takes both more time and more effort vs having a ball boy send you pass after pass to work on jumpers from the exact spots on the floor that your coach/scheme has you taking them from. No, I don't believe Cauley-Stein is a great shooter now. But I believe in time he can be an effective one. And given all the other things he brings, being an effective midrange (say 15-18 ft) is all he needs to be in that area of the game.

The other is that WCS has a rep as a poor outside shooter. His first two seasons he definitely had poor FT shooting but was at least respectable this season and showed marked improvement which should give hope for the future. But Cauley-Stein hit 39% of his jump shots this season which puts him significantly above average on the NCAA level. If anything Cauley-Stein was rarely used at Kentucky as an outside shooter. Calipari didn't want him taking outside shots. It's the same reason people didn't know what a good shooter DeMarcus was and why people are surprised at how well Towns is shooting it in workouts.

To me that would imply that if that's an area of focus and his NBA coach expects him to hit outside shots that Cauley-Stein should show significant growth as time goes on. Because again, all he needs to be is good enough to keep defenses honest. And I think he will.

 

[randymoss1881]

As was mentioned quite a few times when describing draft process, most teams put together their board of 30-50 at least once a week during the season and much more often in May and June. So if you put an executive on the spot right now, he will tell you, who his team would take right this moment. Thing is those boards change, plus teams just don't know, who they take, simply because they don't know, who will be taken before their pick. So mocks are rather useless until probably June, 24th this year. DX always maintained, that their mock is based on their vision of talent and team needs, though in the couple of days before the draft they usually move players around to comply with their perception of the actual draft based on rumors.
[Captain beat me, while I was writing long post]

People overreact to shooting in the open gym: elite shooters will make at least 46-47 out of 50 3pt shots, good ones would get 42-43. People also miss the fact, that Willie's shooting motion is rather slow. So no, WCS is certainly not Ibaka. Still this should help in killing "his defender will just park in the paint" narrative.

T-Rob didn't work out for Kings, and since all the teams ahead passed on him, it was obviously creative editing, trying to sell T-Rob to opponent.

I remember last summer austin rivers shooting college 3s in a workout. No lie if he too 50 shots he didn't make 20 from college 3 dude was building a brick house.

 

[Gilles]

Which is what you would expect from a guy with career .326 3pt shooting on just 2.6 threes per 36 minutes.

 

[beb0p]

In no way am I suggesting that NBA executives dictate who they are going to draft by looking at a mock draft. However, mock drafts are usually dictated by where they think teams will take a player, and it just so happens that DX is one of the more trustworthy sites when it comes to this.

DX (and all mock draft sites) are only semi-accurate a day or two before the draft. at this point in the game, they are all over the map and wildly inaccurate. Remember Ben McLenmore and Thomas Robinson were going #2? Or the Kings drafting Doug McDermott? How about Brook Lopez going top 3 or Russell Westbrook not even a top 10 pick? Yup, all courtesy of DX.

I am willing to bet their mock draft at this moment in time is off by a wide margin. As is the case every year.
.

 

[beb0p]

I remember last summer austin rivers shooting college 3s in a workout. No lie if he too 50 shots he didn't make 20 from college 3 dude was building a brick house.

Never liked Rivers. I said his ceiling would be Juan Dixon during the draft and boy the venom in return was fierce.
.

 

[Warhawk]

With all due respect, I value DX's opinion much more than many of the individuals here including yourself. That is why when I see him going 5 in their recent mock, it worries me. It doesn't mean he is for sure going to go 5, but when a site that has a reputation of being one of the stronger NBA draft sites has Cauley-Stein going at 5, yeah, it worries me.

Do I not have right to worry about getting or not getting a player I really want? Is this fear really that far out there? I apologize if it is...

Well, you don't have to worry about my opinion because I don't give them. I don't watch college ball. I don't have enough time to watch all the Kings games, much less the other pro games, and much less than that any college games.

But *worrying* about how a mock has a player ranked just seems like worrying about the exact diameter of the Giant Red Spot on Jupiter three years from now. Who cares? It will be what it is. No worrying on our behalf can do anything about it.

And hey - worry about a mock rank all you want to - just seems silly to me. That's all I'm saying. If you feel the need to worry - worry about who we get, not how they are ranked by some yahoo not actually making the decision of who plays here.

 

[twslam07]

DX (and all mock draft sites) are only semi-accurate a day or two before the draft. at this point in the game, they are all over the map and wildly inaccurate. Remember Ben McLenmore and Thomas Robinson were going #2? Or the Kings drafting Doug McDermott? How about Brook Lopez going top 3 or Russell Westbrook not even a top 10 pick? Yup, all courtesy of DX.

I am willing to bet their mock draft at this moment in time is off by a wide margin. As is the case every year.
.

Please point to where I said the mock draft will be exactly correct. I'll wait...

The point I am trying to make is that a draft site that is one of the more respected sites put a player I would like to see in a Kings uniform at #5. Does this mean he will go at #5? No, it doesn't. If I never saw Cauley-Stein at #5 in a mock draft, would I still be worried when the Magic are on the clock? You betcha, but I would probably be a little more nervous if I saw him ranked at #5 in a few mocks let alone on a site that is known to be one of the better ones.

People act as if I didn't think Cauley-Stein had a chance of going #5 before I saw this mock draft. That's completely untrue, but as they say: where there's smoke, there's fire. The more rumblings we hear of Cauley-Stein going at #5, the more worried I will be (smokescreen or not). My worrying doesn't affect the outcome of what actually will happen. It's just a natural emotion to a player I would like to see the Kings take. And as most will tell you, there's little room for emotion in business.

So please, can we stop overreacting when I say I'm worried about Cauley-Stein being taken before our pick? Why can't I be nervous and worry if he will be there for us to take? Was anyone else nervous when the Bulls were picking before us in 2007? I sure as hell was because I didn't want them to take Noah. This is the same type of reaction.

 

[Kingster]

Well that's just not true. Shooting off the dribble is very different than catch and shoot, even in an empty gym. I understand that it's convenient for you to make such an argument though since it fits your narrative re WCS.

I generally agree though that hitting shots with no one guarding you isn't all that impressive. These are NBA players, it would be worrying if they couldn't.

Obviously you'd be happy if WCS went before our pick, as you don't value defense.

You're taking literal-mindedness to new and never explored areas of literal-mindedness and appear to be missing the point with deliberate intent.

 

[Kingster]

I would take issue with two of your statements.

One is that there is absolutely a fundamental difference between catch and shoot situations and shooting off the dribble. Mechanically the latter is a much more involved motion and a much harder skill to master. Also much harder to drill repetitively as each repetition takes both more time and more effort vs having a ball boy send you pass after pass to work on jumpers from the exact spots on the floor that your coach/scheme has you taking them from. No, I don't believe Cauley-Stein is a great shooter now. But I believe in time he can be an effective one. And given all the other things he brings, being an effective midrange (say 15-18 ft) is all he needs to be in that area of the game.

The other is that WCS has a rep as a poor outside shooter. His first two seasons he definitely had poor FT shooting but was at least respectable this season and showed marked improvement which should give hope for the future. But Cauley-Stein hit 39% of his jump shots this season which puts him significantly above average on the NCAA level. If anything Cauley-Stein was rarely used at Kentucky as an outside shooter. Calipari didn't want him taking outside shots. It's the same reason people didn't know what a good shooter DeMarcus was and why people are surprised at how well Towns is shooting it in workouts.

To me that would imply that if that's an area of focus and his NBA coach expects him to hit outside shots that Cauley-Stein should show significant growth as time goes on. Because again, all he needs to be is good enough to keep defenses honest. And I think he will.

OF COURSE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHOOTING OFF THE DRIBBLE AND SHOOTING STANDSTILL. That goes without saying! The point is it doesn't make a bit of difference when it comes to EVALUATING players in an empty gym. The distinction to be focused upon is EMPTY GYM and NBA ARENA WITH A REAL GAME. The guy could be throwing 30 feet out over his head in an empty gym and it's irrelevant to whether he will be able to make shots in real games in the NBA. In other words, evaluating players in empty gyms approaches nearly zero in the weight that should be given it, regardless of whether the shots are standing, two legged, upside down or on one's head.

 

[funkykingston]

OF COURSE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SHOOTING OFF THE DRIBBLE AND SHOOTING STANDSTILL. That goes without saying! The point is it doesn't make a bit of difference when it comes to EVALUATING players in an empty gym. The distinction to be focused upon is EMPTY GYM and NBA ARENA WITH A REAL GAME. The guy could be throwing 30 feet out over his head in an empty gym and it's irrelevant to whether he will be able to make shots in real games in the NBA. In other words, evaluating players in empty gyms approaches nearly zero in the weight that should be given it, regardless of whether the shots are standing, two legged, upside down or on one's head.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If you watch a prospect show good mechanics and knock down shot after shot in a workout then at the very least you have the confidence that with continued work he'll be a good in-game shooter. Yes, during draft time (and during the summer when players are returning for training camp) we always hear that a poor shooter has dramatically improved his shot, that slow players have worked on their athleticism and are now much more explosive, that a guy has added a 3 point shot, developed post moves etc etc etc and most of the time it's meaningless. We're even hearing that about Myles Turner this year with his running motion. It's primarily PR. So I understand where you're coming from.

And to change sports there's also guys like Colin Kaepernick who spent the summer working hard on his mechanics and on reading progressions and came to camp with his teammates raving about the improvement. But then once real practices start the reports are that he falls back into his bad habits and long looping delivery instead of the short, compact motion he worked for months on. Same with Tyreke who would look good while working on his shot and then go right back to falling away on his jumper and clanging them for another season.

But with Cauley-Stein it isn't as if he has terrible mechanics that have to be rebuilt. He shoots on the way down instead of at the peak of his jump but (1) that's a small issue for a 7 footer who isn't a major option on offense (2) it's easily correctable and (3) he doesn't elevate a bunch on his jumper anyway so it's not a huge deal for him. For a SG whose calling card is outside shooting they might be the difference between making or not making it in the NBA but for WCS it's a small thing. Also, he's always shown decent touch. The workouts in an empty gym aren't going to convince anyone he's Larry Bird - it's just evidence that he has the potential to be a decent midrange shooter, even if he's inconsistent early on.

I'd love to see him taking those same shots in real action but at Kentucky it wasn't what Calipari wanted from him (or Towns) and unlike decades past there's no 5-on-5 action at the draft combine anymore. Heck, you generally can't even get two prospects to go against each other in predraft workouts anymore. So teams are left looking at the game tape (which shows WCS hitting 39% of jumpers last season in a relatively small sample size) and watching him shoot unguarded jumpers and trying to decide if he'll be able to effectively use that tool in games.

It's what makes the draft an inexact science and a bit of a crapshoot. But from what I've watched I think not only would WCS be a relatively safe pick, he'd be a very good one too and a great fit for the Kings.

 

[jcwkings]

Please point to where I said the mock draft will be exactly correct. I'll wait...

The point I am trying to make is that a draft site that is one of the more respected sites put a player I would like to see in a Kings uniform at #5. Does this mean he will go at #5? No, it doesn't. If I never saw Cauley-Stein at #5 in a mock draft, would I still be worried when the Magic are on the clock? You betcha, but I would probably be a little more nervous if I saw him ranked at #5 in a few mocks let alone on a site that is known to be one of the better ones.

People act as if I didn't think Cauley-Stein had a chance of going #5 before I saw this mock draft. That's completely untrue, but as they say: where there's smoke, there's fire. The more rumblings we hear of Cauley-Stein going at #5, the more worried I will be (smokescreen or not). My worrying doesn't affect the outcome of what actually will happen. It's just a natural emotion to a player I would like to see the Kings take. And as most will tell you, there's little room for emotion in business.

So please, can we stop overreacting when I say I'm worried about Cauley-Stein being taken before our pick? Why can't I be nervous and worry if he will be there for us to take? Was anyone else nervous when the Bulls were picking before us in 2007? I sure as hell was because I didn't want them to take Noah. This is the same type of reaction.

If Cauley Stein goes five that means Mudiaye drops to us. Assuming we dont trade the pick one of Stein, Mudiaye, Winslow will be there for us.

 

[dude12]

Read a tweet that Cameron Payne's stock is rising and they are bringing him in for a solo workout next week..... I'll have to go to draftexpress and check out the video breakdown of him.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I'm not sure anyone can figure out the Knicks right now, to me it means we are pretty much guessing after 3.

 

[funkykingston]

Read a tweet that Cameron Payne's stock is rising and they are bringing him in for a solo workout next week..... I'll have to go to draftexpress and check out the video breakdown of him.

I'm a big fan of Payne but I wouldn't take him at #6

 

[KingsCitizen]

Well I thought I was already on WCS wagon, but then I saw more and more of this Hezonja kid and I find it hard to deny the talent and flare.
I personally think this kid is the best wing in this class because of his handles, flare, perimeter shooting, and not to mention those quick dunks driving to the basket in the face of his opponent.

He's got the SG label at 6'8". But that's actually a legit SF height in the NBA and looking at the playoffs the 2G-2SF-1C has actually been trending lately.
Warriors field Green at 6'7" as PF next to Iggy (6'6"), Klay and Curry. Thunder can do this with Durant at 4. Same with Cavs with LBJ at 4.
Kings can go the same path with Collison-McLemore-Hezonja-Gay-DMC lineup.

If Karl rides this trend to make sure DMC gets enough room down low. My bet is that we Kings would draft this kid over Winslow, WCS, or even Mudiay.

 

[funkykingston]

Hezonja is the closest thing to Klay Thompson in this draft. I think WCS fills a bigger need but there are a lot of guys I like in this draft and Hezonja is one of them.

That said, I think WCS is going to go #4 or #5. He's the type of athlete that will wow in workouts, especially when he shows better shooting (yes, in an empty gym) than expected.

 

[Flopi]

That said, I think WCS is going to go #4 or #5. He's the type of athlete that will wow in workouts, especially when he shows better shooting (yes, in an empty gym) than expected.

Here it comes : http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Willie-Cauley-Stein-Workout-Video-and-Interview-5045

 

[One and Done]

Am I alone in thinking that WCS is pegged to go way too high?

Here's a guy who does one thing really well: defend multiple positions. He's athletic. He can jump.

But outside of Free Throw %, he hasn't improved drastically in any area since his Freshman year. He's an average rebounder (good on O, below average on D-boards). He has zero offensive skill - albeit this year, a jumpshot on a ridiculously small sample size - and hasn't improved in this area at all. His basketball IQ isn't great. His effort and motor are in question. He's a good - not great - shotblocker. The stats speak for themselves - has never averaged more than 10 points a game. The minuses are there, and they haven't gone away in three years...unless he miraculously improves in the NBA, there's no way you can keep him on the court w/ starter's minutes. He's a defensive specialist roleplayer. This is the kind of guy you want to draft in the mid-first to help your playoff team get deeper into the playoffs, as you have a competent-enough starting five to get you there in the first place.

Do we, or another NBA team, want to blow a lottery pick on a roleplayer whose limitations will limit court time to specialist minutes? Are we trying to draft starters or bench weapons to get us deeper in the playoffs? Using history as a guide, it's not a great practice to draft "ace roleplayers" in the lottery. You need some semblance of offensive skill to get you minutes. WCS can dunk, yes. But where does he stand the rest of the time on offense, especially when DMC is on the court?

I'm not against WCS at all - I think if he keeps his head on straight and improves his focus he can be a great asset to a lot of teams. I just think he's a limited roleplayer, and shouldn't be taken in the lottery.

 

[jcwkings]

Am I alone in thinking that WCS is pegged to go way too high?

Here's a guy who does one thing really well: defend multiple positions. He's athletic. He can jump.

But outside of Free Throw %, he hasn't improved drastically in any area since his Freshman year. He's an average rebounder (good on O, below average on D-boards). He has zero offensive skill - albeit this year, a jumpshot on a ridiculously small sample size - and hasn't improved in this area at all. His basketball IQ isn't great. His effort and motor are in question. He's a good - not great - shotblocker. The stats speak for themselves - has never averaged more than 10 points a game. The minuses are there, and they haven't gone away in three years...unless he miraculously improves in the NBA, there's no way you can keep him on the court w/ starter's minutes. He's a defensive specialist roleplayer. This is the kind of guy you want to draft in the mid-first to help your playoff team get deeper into the playoffs, as you have a competent-enough starting five to get you there in the first place.

Do we, or another NBA team, want to blow a lottery pick on a roleplayer whose limitations will limit court time to specialist minutes? Are we trying to draft starters or bench weapons to get us deeper in the playoffs? Using history as a guide, it's not a great practice to draft "ace roleplayers" in the lottery. You need some semblance of offensive skill to get you minutes. WCS can dunk, yes. But where does he stand the rest of the time on offense, especially when DMC is on the court?

I'm not against WCS at all - I think if he keeps his head on straight and improves his focus he can be a great asset to a lot of teams. I just think he's a limited roleplayer, and shouldn't be taken in the lottery.

That's what he was asked to do at Kentucky though, he filled his role based on what he is good at naturally. Especially on teams that are so freshman dependent, coach cal isn't going to have time to develop/ feature WCS's offensive game when he has Julius Randle, or Karl Anthony Towns on their squad along with all the other players. Remember last season he ran a platoon system to try and satisfy all their needs. I'm all for WCS, but yes I'm starting to think he might be gone at 6, passes the eye test in workouts, also depends on how Mudiaye, Winslow, Hezonja, Porzingis fare in theirs.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

His effort and motor are in question.

Did you just throw this in to see if people were paying attention while they were reading? WCS left more heart on the court than just about any player I've seen in the last several years. The last thing I question about him is his motor.

 

[One and Done]

That's what he was asked to do at Kentucky though, he filled his role based on what he is good at naturally. Especially on teams that are so freshman dependent, coach cal isn't going to have time to develop/ feature WCS's offensive game when he has Julius Randle, or Karl Anthony Towns on their squad along with all the other players. Remember last season he ran a platoon system to try and satisfy all their needs. I'm all for WCS, but yes I'm starting to think he might be gone at 6, passes the eye test in workouts, also depends on how Mudiaye, Winslow, Hezonja, Porzingis fare in theirs.

I'd only argue that you look at efficiency, especially when a player's minutes and touches are limited, and how this has improved over time. The qualitative aspect is Coach Cal's style; he does an excellent job at putting his players where they're most efficient, as well as hiding their weaknesses. On that note, if WCS had such an excellent or developing jumper, I think he would've received more touches there.

Did you just throw this in to see if people were paying attention while they were reading? WCS left more heart on the court than just about any player I've seen in the last several years. The last thing I question about him is his motor.

Absolutely not! And have never been one to troll on these boards (yikes has it been more than ten years?), but I know I'm in the minority here. Re: his motor, I would check out his game log here as well as some scouting reports on this. When he's locked in, I totally agree. But there's been games where his head has been elsewhere - it shows up in the stats as well as the reports. A big question among draftniks is how locked in he'll be in an 82-game season, as he's already displayed inconsistencies in the NCAA game-to-game.