Ongoing draft/lottery discussion [OPEN SPOILERS]
- Thread starter hrdboild
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I hope Delon Wright goes in the 2nd and we can pick him up. He's one of my favorite PGs. He can handle/pass the ball and he's a very smart player. Good and improving offensive scorer. He's very good on defense and could make an immediate impact for our team straight off the bench.
Lengthy 6'5 PG who can defend, pass, and score. Almost the perfect package.
Lengthy 6'5 PG who can defend, pass, and score. Almost the perfect package.
This is the most interesting element of the entire post for me. If Karl's influence can offset the bad rep/history of the Kings, maybe that FA money might not be as devalued as much as I think. At first I thought that splitting the FA money for Afflalo and Koustos was dreaming, but maybe, maybe, maybe it's not.
We might be talking about different things. I was talking about the roster after Brick's minimal changes, not our current roster. I agree with your assessment of our current roster, although I'd B+ the starters, given what I saw under Malone.
Our bench was/is horrid, and hearing it from Karl probably carries a little more weight, unfortunately, than hearing it from Malone.
Despite that, we're not too far from upgrading towards a competitive team.
Our bench was/is horrid, and hearing it from Karl probably carries a little more weight, unfortunately, than hearing it from Malone.
Despite that, we're not too far from upgrading towards a competitive team.
http://ballislife.com/lebron-skills-academy-stories-lebron-vs-stanley-johnson-dwade-visits-no-shows/
This is old news, but it seemed like the best place to post it. When you talk about intangibles, a big part of it is how badly they want to be the best player in the gym. Do they just put in work or do they live for it? And a big reason why I've got Stanley Johnson ranked so highly is because of little anecdotes like this one about taking on Lebron which make me feel like he's going to keep getting better and better for a long time. It's one thing to have the raw tools to make it as an NBA athlete. A lot of prospects check out in that department. What really separates star players from everyone else is that they know they're stars before everyone else does and they'll take on any challenge to prove it to you.
This is old news, but it seemed like the best place to post it. When you talk about intangibles, a big part of it is how badly they want to be the best player in the gym. Do they just put in work or do they live for it? And a big reason why I've got Stanley Johnson ranked so highly is because of little anecdotes like this one about taking on Lebron which make me feel like he's going to keep getting better and better for a long time. It's one thing to have the raw tools to make it as an NBA athlete. A lot of prospects check out in that department. What really separates star players from everyone else is that they know they're stars before everyone else does and they'll take on any challenge to prove it to you.
I understand what you're trying to say, and I agree with you to some degree.
If we make a trade like Landry, McCallum, & 2016 pick (protection lowered to top 3) for just cap space (maybe make a 3 way deal with Philly and Chicago with Philly getting the young pieces and Landry and Chicago getting a guy like Covington to slot next to Butler as their 3 and D floor spacer), we would have approximately $14.4 mil in cap space. If we try to use all of that cap space on Amir Johnson and Cory Joseph, that adds two solid players who can continue be part of the core/future.
After using all of the cap space, you go ahead and sign Casspi to the room exception and sign Miller, Turkoglu, Gooden, & Hollins to veteran minimums. Then you go into the season with this roster:
PG - Collison/Joseph/Miller/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Casspi/Turkoglu
PF - Johnson/Cauley-Stein/Gooden
C - Cousins/Thompson/Hollins
The SG spot is still up in the air at this point with McLemore and Stauskas being the only ones there on the depth chart. However, you can get away with Joseph, Miller, Gay, and Casspi at that position for some stretches. The hope would be to have both of them take another step forward, but in case they don't, we do have some vets at PG & SF who can slide over while they are still developing.
Again, this team still has some few holes, but it should be an improvement by adding Joseph, Johnson, & Cauley-Stein.
If we make a trade like Landry, McCallum, & 2016 pick (protection lowered to top 3) for just cap space (maybe make a 3 way deal with Philly and Chicago with Philly getting the young pieces and Landry and Chicago getting a guy like Covington to slot next to Butler as their 3 and D floor spacer), we would have approximately $14.4 mil in cap space. If we try to use all of that cap space on Amir Johnson and Cory Joseph, that adds two solid players who can continue be part of the core/future.
After using all of the cap space, you go ahead and sign Casspi to the room exception and sign Miller, Turkoglu, Gooden, & Hollins to veteran minimums. Then you go into the season with this roster:
PG - Collison/Joseph/Miller/Stockton
SG - McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Casspi/Turkoglu
PF - Johnson/Cauley-Stein/Gooden
C - Cousins/Thompson/Hollins
The SG spot is still up in the air at this point with McLemore and Stauskas being the only ones there on the depth chart. However, you can get away with Joseph, Miller, Gay, and Casspi at that position for some stretches. The hope would be to have both of them take another step forward, but in case they don't, we do have some vets at PG & SF who can slide over while they are still developing.
Again, this team still has some few holes, but it should be an improvement by adding Joseph, Johnson, & Cauley-Stein.
tdos question
http://www.si.com/nba/2015/06/01/nba-mock-draft-jahlil-okafor-karl-anthony-towns-wolves-lakers-76ers
It is probably low probability, but would this make sense at all? Who would be usable that can be picked 16, 28 and 33?
http://www.si.com/nba/2015/06/01/nba-mock-draft-jahlil-okafor-karl-anthony-towns-wolves-lakers-76ers
It is probably low probability, but would this make sense at all? Who would be usable that can be picked 16, 28 and 33?
For all the Cousin-Ibaka fantasy that have been talked the last few years, I have to wonder if folks here have started to get tire on that.
But in my opinion, I think our FO should try to talk with OKC right before the draft and offer our 6th plus whoever they wanted except for Rudy and DMC for Ibaka.
So many things could actually influence the Thunder into releasing Ibaka and probably now is best time to check on that.
1.) They just fired their coach
2.) They got young bigs in Kanter and Adams that are blossoming nicely.
3.) Winslow who could very much compliment Durant and Westbrook should be around at #6.
4.) The warriors just reached the finals with a backcourt that could be easily overmatched with a WestBrook/Durant/Winslow combo.
Here's my take Landry/JT/Stauskas/6th for Ibaka/Morrow/OKC 14th pick
Thunder would take Winslow. Their front court would still be capable to give Durant and Westbrook ample support.
Then we draft a guy like Portis on 14th or maybe even Kaminsky to back-up the big man rotation.
For this to happen thought, Thunder needs to see a Hardenesque potential + defense in Winslow. But we won't what they think unless we try.
But in my opinion, I think our FO should try to talk with OKC right before the draft and offer our 6th plus whoever they wanted except for Rudy and DMC for Ibaka.
So many things could actually influence the Thunder into releasing Ibaka and probably now is best time to check on that.
1.) They just fired their coach
2.) They got young bigs in Kanter and Adams that are blossoming nicely.
3.) Winslow who could very much compliment Durant and Westbrook should be around at #6.
4.) The warriors just reached the finals with a backcourt that could be easily overmatched with a WestBrook/Durant/Winslow combo.
Here's my take Landry/JT/Stauskas/6th for Ibaka/Morrow/OKC 14th pick
Thunder would take Winslow. Their front court would still be capable to give Durant and Westbrook ample support.
Then we draft a guy like Portis on 14th or maybe even Kaminsky to back-up the big man rotation.
For this to happen thought, Thunder needs to see a Hardenesque potential + defense in Winslow. But we won't what they think unless we try.
I'm sorry, but you're not going to get Ibaka for that package. I bet they would still turn down Thompson, Stauskas, & #6 for Ibaka alone. They realize how unique of a player he is, and they are not going to let him go easily.
On a side note, the Thunder are in a position to consolidate not deepen their roster. They have 13 people under contract next year, Kanter & Singler are RFAs, and a 1st round draft pick. That puts them one player over the maximum allowed. They need to cut players not makes trades that bring in more players than are going out.
Not to mention almost every player on their roster should be getting some playing time or they at least have some value:
Durant
Westbrook
Ibaka
Morrow
Kanter
Adams
Waiters
Lamb
McGary
Singler
Augustin
Collison
Jones III
Novak
Roberson
Adding more mediocre pieces makes no sense for them. They should really be looking to package #14 with guys like Waiters, Lamb, McGary, Jones, and/or Roberson to consolidate and bring in a veteran who can help them win now. Looking at their roster without all of those younger assets, they are still pretty stacked.
PG - Westbrook/Augustin
SG - Morrow
SF - Durant/Singler/Novak
PF - Ibaka/Collison
C - Kanter/Adams
Again, if they just consolidate those pieces to bring in a better quality player, they would be in much better position to compete next year. I think they could try and nab a guy like Avery Bradley with those pieces and roll with a Bradley/Morrow SG tandem next year. I think a move like that would make much more sense for them.
On a side note, the Thunder are in a position to consolidate not deepen their roster. They have 13 people under contract next year, Kanter & Singler are RFAs, and a 1st round draft pick. That puts them one player over the maximum allowed. They need to cut players not makes trades that bring in more players than are going out.
Not to mention almost every player on their roster should be getting some playing time or they at least have some value:
Durant
Westbrook
Ibaka
Morrow
Kanter
Adams
Waiters
Lamb
McGary
Singler
Augustin
Collison
Jones III
Novak
Roberson
Adding more mediocre pieces makes no sense for them. They should really be looking to package #14 with guys like Waiters, Lamb, McGary, Jones, and/or Roberson to consolidate and bring in a veteran who can help them win now. Looking at their roster without all of those younger assets, they are still pretty stacked.
PG - Westbrook/Augustin
SG - Morrow
SF - Durant/Singler/Novak
PF - Ibaka/Collison
C - Kanter/Adams
Again, if they just consolidate those pieces to bring in a better quality player, they would be in much better position to compete next year. I think they could try and nab a guy like Avery Bradley with those pieces and roll with a Bradley/Morrow SG tandem next year. I think a move like that would make much more sense for them.
Collison is a FA next season, I believe. So they are actually pretty thin up front. If they keep Kanter, he can actually work as a PF next to Adams.
If they get vets like JT and Landry, they could still have a balanced front court supporting KD and Westbrook and may only miss a couple of blocks from Ibaka.
The premise of my offer relies on having Winslow at SG which would really boost their rotation. It would be like having Thabo and Harden playing as 1 person next to KD and Westbrook.
They could go with:
PG - Westbrook/DJ
SG - Winslow/Lamb
SF - Durant/Singler
PF - Kanter/Landry
C - Adams/JT
Even an elementary coach would know, that line-up would still be pretty sick even if it will just use the PF and C as chairs on offense.
If they get vets like JT and Landry, they could still have a balanced front court supporting KD and Westbrook and may only miss a couple of blocks from Ibaka.
The premise of my offer relies on having Winslow at SG which would really boost their rotation. It would be like having Thabo and Harden playing as 1 person next to KD and Westbrook.
They could go with:
PG - Westbrook/DJ
SG - Winslow/Lamb
SF - Durant/Singler
PF - Kanter/Landry
C - Adams/JT
Even an elementary coach would know, that line-up would still be pretty sick even if it will just use the PF and C as chairs on offense.
https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/605465513641181184
Only 1 shot in the video but he needs to work on not shooting on the way down.
Only 1 shot in the video but he needs to work on not shooting on the way down.
Nope, Collison is under contract for 2 more years, and Kanter isn't a good enough defender to guard centers (his natural position) let alone PFs. You may be able to get away with him playing their against a weak offensive PF who lacks quickness, but he's not going to be able to contain mediocre PFs. I would be much more comfortable with Adams trying to defend PFs than Kanter.
With that being said, an Ibaka/Kanter/Adams froncourt is solid. No need to touch that froncourt going forward. They have youth, athleticism, strength, post defense, post offense, shot blocking, rebounding, floor spacing, scoring, etc. Add Collison as your 4th big and you have one of the stronger frontcourts in the league. Couple that with Westbrook and Durant who are two of the best players at their positions and it leaves you with upgrading the SG spot and your bench.
I'm not sure having a Harden like player off the bench is as necessary for them anymore. With Kanter on the roster (and a more developed Ibaka), they are able to get a lot more of their scoring out of their PF & C. It obviously wouldn't hurt to have an elite sixth man off the bench, but their team has enough scoring that it's not warranted.
The Thunder really just need to fill out their roster spots with 3 and D players and hope they stay healthy. Praying that the Thunder are looking to blow it up (and trading Ibaka would be a move in that direction) is silly. Ibaka is a win now piece, and the Thunder are doing everything they can to win now. They have their own superstars to try and convince to remain in OKC.
I like Morrow for them, but I think they have to try and do better in their starting unit. If they were to get a guy like Bradley who is a good spot up 3pt shooter (38% this year and 40% last year in catch and shoot 3s) and a terrific on-the-ball defender, I think they would be poised to make a deep run.
PG - Westbrook/Augustin
SG - Bradley/Morrow
SF - Durant/Singler
PF - Ibaka/Collison
C - Adams/Kanter
That is a very well balanced and excellent 10 man rotation. I see no reason for them to gift wrap Ibaka to us when they are on the brink of competing for another title.
With that being said, an Ibaka/Kanter/Adams froncourt is solid. No need to touch that froncourt going forward. They have youth, athleticism, strength, post defense, post offense, shot blocking, rebounding, floor spacing, scoring, etc. Add Collison as your 4th big and you have one of the stronger frontcourts in the league. Couple that with Westbrook and Durant who are two of the best players at their positions and it leaves you with upgrading the SG spot and your bench.
I'm not sure having a Harden like player off the bench is as necessary for them anymore. With Kanter on the roster (and a more developed Ibaka), they are able to get a lot more of their scoring out of their PF & C. It obviously wouldn't hurt to have an elite sixth man off the bench, but their team has enough scoring that it's not warranted.
The Thunder really just need to fill out their roster spots with 3 and D players and hope they stay healthy. Praying that the Thunder are looking to blow it up (and trading Ibaka would be a move in that direction) is silly. Ibaka is a win now piece, and the Thunder are doing everything they can to win now. They have their own superstars to try and convince to remain in OKC.
I like Morrow for them, but I think they have to try and do better in their starting unit. If they were to get a guy like Bradley who is a good spot up 3pt shooter (38% this year and 40% last year in catch and shoot 3s) and a terrific on-the-ball defender, I think they would be poised to make a deep run.
PG - Westbrook/Augustin
SG - Bradley/Morrow
SF - Durant/Singler
PF - Ibaka/Collison
C - Adams/Kanter
That is a very well balanced and excellent 10 man rotation. I see no reason for them to gift wrap Ibaka to us when they are on the brink of competing for another title.
Obviously anyone can have a good stretch of 9 shots, but man, I am just salivating at the thought of this guy on our team. He already has a reputation of being a hard worker, and he's improved his FT shooting from 37% to 62% in a 2 year time span.
Sadly, DraftExpress has him going #5 right now. I know we still got some time, but I hope that mock draft ends up with Cauley-Stein at 6 or later. DraftExpress always seems to be the most accurate when it comes to these things.
Sadly, DraftExpress has him going #5 right now. I know we still got some time, but I hope that mock draft ends up with Cauley-Stein at 6 or later. DraftExpress always seems to be the most accurate when it comes to these things.
K
Question can the Thunder afford to re-sign Kantar who wanted well over 12 million per season (if he indeed gets that number which he shouldn't)?, Unless they think Steve Adams can be there anchor and want a player who can score in the post (which they never had till Kantar) which I highly doubt. Unless Kantar takes a lesser deal (which he really should be on) he might be hard for them to keep.
I think that's a question for their owner. Paying Kanter $12 mil puts them at $90 mil this year. If they resign Singler to a $3.5 mil deal they are looking at $93.5 mil. Now that might be considered high right now, but you have to keep in mind that the cap will be $89 mil the following season. Relative to that cap, $93.5 mil doesn't look so bad.
Granted, they have a lot more players expiring the following season as well which should put them under the $89 mil cap so the question is do the Thunder go ahead with a high payroll for this year in an attempt to make them as competitive as possible (thus trying to persuade Durant to comeback) or do they wuss out with the money and weaken their team in an expiring year for Durant? It's a tough decision, but looking long term and what is going to happen with the cap, I think you have to try and keep Kanter this year.
Remember a $12 mil/year deal the following season will be the same as a $9 mil/year deal under the current cap. And the following season after that, it will be the same as a $7.5 mil/year deal under the current cap. The cap rising does make a $12 mil/year deal much easier to swallow.
Granted, they have a lot more players expiring the following season as well which should put them under the $89 mil cap so the question is do the Thunder go ahead with a high payroll for this year in an attempt to make them as competitive as possible (thus trying to persuade Durant to comeback) or do they wuss out with the money and weaken their team in an expiring year for Durant? It's a tough decision, but looking long term and what is going to happen with the cap, I think you have to try and keep Kanter this year.
Remember a $12 mil/year deal the following season will be the same as a $9 mil/year deal under the current cap. And the following season after that, it will be the same as a $7.5 mil/year deal under the current cap. The cap rising does make a $12 mil/year deal much easier to swallow.
True, but here's the big difference for me - Tyreke was always attacking off the dribble. He was a lead guard whose M.O. was to create offense for himself and was often shooting off the dribble with a defender on him. WCS will be a spot up shooter who is only looking to take wide open shots to punish teams for doubling Cuz. If he can hit those shots regularly enough to help space the floor then he's as good a shooter as he needs to be. If somehow he becomes a true threat out to three point range and the Kings version of Ibaka? Well that would just be gravy.
Unfortunately I'm starting to think Cauley-Stein goes #4 or #5.
Unfortunately I'm starting to think Cauley-Stein goes #4 or #5.
