Voisin: Can Kings front office get along?
- Thread starter Larry David
- Start date
You know it's a terrible, terrible, terrible" thing to say and yet you cannot refrain from saying it anyway? What the hell?
I may not be happy with everything that's going on but I am NEVER going to think that it would have been better for the Kings to go to Seattle and lose their entire identity, history, etc. Sorry, but that's arguably the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard from someone who calls himself a Sacramento Kings fan.
I may not be happy with everything that's going on but I am NEVER going to think that it would have been better for the Kings to go to Seattle and lose their entire identity, history, etc. Sorry, but that's arguably the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard from someone who calls himself a Sacramento Kings fan.
If this incompetency continues....this franchise might take another decade to finish rebuilding. From the get go, I hated bringing in Mullin because he had that Golden State fast paced vision in mind and then you also bring in a guy with no GM experience in Pete who is bound to make some mistakes, I suppose it's not a surprise anymore what goes on. We have seen it all, our team was nearly taken away, we get a billionaire techie who wants to reinvent the game and his vision does not coincide with his GM.
Let me see if I can put somewhat of a positive spin on this thing. A challenge I know, but I think if you look closely, you'll see a small ray of sunshine. Of course that's only if you want to see it. I liken back to Mark Cuban, who, as I said about Karl, whether you like him or not, has been extremely successful, not only at business, but at owning, and helping create a winning team. But he admits that when he came into the league, all bright eyed and bushy tailed, he was arrogant, and thought he knew exactly what to do. As a result, he made a lot of mistakes. Ticked off a lot of people, and hired a lot of the wrong people. But he learned from his mistakes, and eventually rectified his mistakes.
There's no doubt that Vivek made mistakes. He listened to the wrong people. Easy to do when they're in the HOF, seem knowledgeable, and have past experience running an NBA team. I suspect some of you might have done the same thing. He made mistakes by hiring some of the wrong people. But that's history. He made mistakes, and he's admitted that he made mistakes. The fact that he admitted it, is a positive. More importantly, he did something about it. He went and hired a coach with a great resume. A coach that any player in the NBA would have to respect, even if he didn't like him. That's a positive. Finally, he went and hired a man who represents Kings basketball. Represents the style of basketball we all love in sacramento. And then gave him the ear that had previously belonged to Mullins. That's a positive.
I'm not saying everything is all peaches and cream. I'm saying that when you make mistakes, the only thing you can do, is a redo. You go back and try and do it the right way. Vlade may not have any experience at being a GM or as vice president of an NBA team, but he knows good basketball when he see's it. I have no doubt that he knows talent when he see's it. In Vlade and Karl, you have years of NBA experience, and you can't put a price on that. Vivek can't go back and change the past, but he can certainly change the future. On the surface, right now, it appears that's he trying to do just that. I'm willing to give him a little of the rope back and see what he does with it. I mean what's the alternative? By the way, can we stop calling the owner of our team trash? It's a classless thing to do.
There's no doubt that Vivek made mistakes. He listened to the wrong people. Easy to do when they're in the HOF, seem knowledgeable, and have past experience running an NBA team. I suspect some of you might have done the same thing. He made mistakes by hiring some of the wrong people. But that's history. He made mistakes, and he's admitted that he made mistakes. The fact that he admitted it, is a positive. More importantly, he did something about it. He went and hired a coach with a great resume. A coach that any player in the NBA would have to respect, even if he didn't like him. That's a positive. Finally, he went and hired a man who represents Kings basketball. Represents the style of basketball we all love in sacramento. And then gave him the ear that had previously belonged to Mullins. That's a positive.
I'm not saying everything is all peaches and cream. I'm saying that when you make mistakes, the only thing you can do, is a redo. You go back and try and do it the right way. Vlade may not have any experience at being a GM or as vice president of an NBA team, but he knows good basketball when he see's it. I have no doubt that he knows talent when he see's it. In Vlade and Karl, you have years of NBA experience, and you can't put a price on that. Vivek can't go back and change the past, but he can certainly change the future. On the surface, right now, it appears that's he trying to do just that. I'm willing to give him a little of the rope back and see what he does with it. I mean what's the alternative? By the way, can we stop calling the owner of our team trash? It's a classless thing to do.
You know, given my complete disdain for our front office, I struggle to truly see this report as a bad thing.
I have doubts about some details -- Gerbil not wanting Karl for istance (remember the report of him going to Vivek and saying "oops" on the Corbin thing? you just twist that slightly, same way they did with Malone "not wanting" Cousins extended, and you go from Gerbil wanting Karl to come in in the offseason to Gerbil not wanting him at all.
Nonetheless, since I have decidedly not liked whatever whoever in charge has been doing all season, if more cooks are arriving to make it a big ole messy volatile mix that's bound to explode...I'm good with that. Whatever follows after the upcoming shakeup almost has to be better than waht came before, or at least more chastened.
'Sides, awash in a sea of incompetence, at this point I think I'd reduced to rooting on anybody who's tall enough to have played center, and who can therefore maybe have a ****ing clue about Cuz's situation. Shaq for majority owner/Vlade for Gm? Bring it on.
I have doubts about some details -- Gerbil not wanting Karl for istance (remember the report of him going to Vivek and saying "oops" on the Corbin thing? you just twist that slightly, same way they did with Malone "not wanting" Cousins extended, and you go from Gerbil wanting Karl to come in in the offseason to Gerbil not wanting him at all.
Nonetheless, since I have decidedly not liked whatever whoever in charge has been doing all season, if more cooks are arriving to make it a big ole messy volatile mix that's bound to explode...I'm good with that. Whatever follows after the upcoming shakeup almost has to be better than waht came before, or at least more chastened.
'Sides, awash in a sea of incompetence, at this point I think I'd reduced to rooting on anybody who's tall enough to have played center, and who can therefore maybe have a ****ing clue about Cuz's situation. Shaq for majority owner/Vlade for Gm? Bring it on.
I had no idea when Vlade's role was first announced that it was anything more than ceremonial - so this is coming on kind of fast for me. But, I like it.
I thought long ago that PDA was going to have to fall on his sword for the sake of preserving what is left of Vivek's image. I'm actually starting to wonder if Leslie Moore did the same thing - of course I don't know if she is still doing the snarky "chill much" stuff anymore since I'm blocked along with the rest of the world, but it does seem to me like Vivek is throwing baggage that made him look bad overboard - and if I'm a betting man, PDA, Bratz and Mully are dead men walking.
Vivek gets a do-over next year with Vlade as VP and George Karl as GM/Coach. I bet we draft whoever George SAYS we draft (or else we trade the pick for Lawson at George's behest).
All good... the darkest times are behind us for sure. Nobody could survive the buffoon show that PDA Bratz and Mullin put on around the coach Malone firing. Nobody. And Vivek isn't going anywhere so it is just smart emotional business to pretend along with him that it was the fault of bad advisers and hope he learned from it.
I thought long ago that PDA was going to have to fall on his sword for the sake of preserving what is left of Vivek's image. I'm actually starting to wonder if Leslie Moore did the same thing - of course I don't know if she is still doing the snarky "chill much" stuff anymore since I'm blocked along with the rest of the world, but it does seem to me like Vivek is throwing baggage that made him look bad overboard - and if I'm a betting man, PDA, Bratz and Mully are dead men walking.
Vivek gets a do-over next year with Vlade as VP and George Karl as GM/Coach. I bet we draft whoever George SAYS we draft (or else we trade the pick for Lawson at George's behest).
All good... the darkest times are behind us for sure. Nobody could survive the buffoon show that PDA Bratz and Mullin put on around the coach Malone firing. Nobody. And Vivek isn't going anywhere so it is just smart emotional business to pretend along with him that it was the fault of bad advisers and hope he learned from it.
What, exactly, has he admitted as a mistake he made?
IIRC, the ONLY thing Vivek has admitted to is hiring Malone before the GM.
So when the only thing Vivek has admitted is an insinuation that he hired the wrong guy (Malone), when Malone is the ONLY right hire in the entire franchise.... well, that :
a) doesn't exactly prove Vivek has learned ANYthing
and
b) doesn't exactly strike me as a positive.
IIRC, the ONLY thing Vivek has admitted to is hiring Malone before the GM.
So when the only thing Vivek has admitted is an insinuation that he hired the wrong guy (Malone), when Malone is the ONLY right hire in the entire franchise.... well, that :
a) doesn't exactly prove Vivek has learned ANYthing
and
b) doesn't exactly strike me as a positive.
Let me make something clear from the start. There is probably no bigger Vlade hommer than myself (well apart from maybe VF21) but I have my reservations about his ability as a GM. I am speaking as someone who has followed Vlade from the moment he signed his first professional contract with my club Partizan back in Serbia, to the time he went to Lakers, then to Charlotte, then to Kings, then back to Lakers again, then on to Real Madrid as a GM for a season and then on to being a president of the Serbian olympic committee. Oh and in the middle of all that he, along with a couple of other Partizan legends saved my beloved Partizan from extinction about a decade ago.
Anyway, my point is he is really inexperienced in the front office role as a GM. Depite our love for him and his love for the game, he never has won a championship in the NBA. I am not sure he knows what it takes or how to build it. He represents the same PACE vision as the crowd bringing us down.
There are certainly genuine positives having Vlade back with us. He brings a lot and I think his best role is the one Mullin occupies with a little bit of a cross over to some of the business side but a GM he is not, nor am I convinved that he would make a good one. I am concerned that he has not spent more quality time with DeMarcus on the recent road trip. Cousins reactionto the question was concerning to me.
I was always against brining in Mullin from day one. I wanted to give PDA a chance when we got him and he has made some good moves in his time here BUT he lost me when he fired Malone. I would let both of them go and bring in a GM who has been there and done that in a front office position of sorts. Not necessarily a GM from another team but an understudy from a successful franchise that has won championship or more in his time there.
By all means I would love a splashy move of Buford or someone like that but it would be unlikely. We MUST stay away from anything GSW or Denver related....ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!
Anyway, my point is he is really inexperienced in the front office role as a GM. Depite our love for him and his love for the game, he never has won a championship in the NBA. I am not sure he knows what it takes or how to build it. He represents the same PACE vision as the crowd bringing us down.
There are certainly genuine positives having Vlade back with us. He brings a lot and I think his best role is the one Mullin occupies with a little bit of a cross over to some of the business side but a GM he is not, nor am I convinved that he would make a good one. I am concerned that he has not spent more quality time with DeMarcus on the recent road trip. Cousins reactionto the question was concerning to me.
I was always against brining in Mullin from day one. I wanted to give PDA a chance when we got him and he has made some good moves in his time here BUT he lost me when he fired Malone. I would let both of them go and bring in a GM who has been there and done that in a front office position of sorts. Not necessarily a GM from another team but an understudy from a successful franchise that has won championship or more in his time there.
By all means I would love a splashy move of Buford or someone like that but it would be unlikely. We MUST stay away from anything GSW or Denver related....ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!
fwiw PDA has not tweeted anything at all since Jan 30 when he congratulated Boogie on his All Star selection. Pretty freakin ominous.
Too bad in a way - I honestly like Pete and I don't think he's bad where personnel is concerned, and he has giant brass balls imo to get on the bus and drive with fans to a Warriors game. I will sincerely wish him well when he leaves - I think he is just mainly taking the fall for his boss.
Too bad in a way - I honestly like Pete and I don't think he's bad where personnel is concerned, and he has giant brass balls imo to get on the bus and drive with fans to a Warriors game. I will sincerely wish him well when he leaves - I think he is just mainly taking the fall for his boss.
Did Petrie tell Adelman to play fast or slow? In those days were the Kings playing too fast or too slow. Did Petrie consult with coach before he made draft picks? Was Petrie a basketball genius? Did Petrie fire anyone? Bring back Petrie. Ownership, basketball advisor Divak, Petrie GM, Karl coach. Give Mullin and PDA an extended leave of absence.
Just to play a small amount of devils advocate, there's a lot of advantage to be had by having differing visions on a team. If Vivek is in a room with four executives who all agree with him on everything, at least three of those guys are unnecessary. A corporate environment characterized by "group think" is very comfortable and low on conflict, but it's also low on creativity and innovation. You need different ideas to catalyze, discussions with honest disagreements, and team members willing to hold each other accountable.
The trick is, this all has to be done with the good of the team in mind. The benefit of the team, not of individual agendas, is what must drive the conflict. Once competing ideas are considered and a decision is made, the group must be able to move forward in unity.
...and it is for these reasons that I think Pete and Mully will soon be gone. I plan to toast their departure!
The trick is, this all has to be done with the good of the team in mind. The benefit of the team, not of individual agendas, is what must drive the conflict. Once competing ideas are considered and a decision is made, the group must be able to move forward in unity.
...and it is for these reasons that I think Pete and Mully will soon be gone. I plan to toast their departure!
Everyone can interpret anything the way they want. I doubt that anything would strike you as a positive, since all you spout is negativity. And your dammed good at it. You should be proud. The mistake he admitted to, wasn't that he hired Malone, but that the process was wrong. The job should have been PDA's to do. Now he may have become disenchanted with Malone after hiring him, but that's not the mistake he admitted to. He hired and inexperienced coach, and he hired and inexperienced GM. Both were probably bad idea's in retrospect. I suspect that when he finally fires PDA, which I think might happen as soon as this summer, he'll admit that rushing to judgement on who should be the GM was a bad idea, but he'll do it nicely.
Now I know you'd like him to come out and lambast PDA, Mullins, and whomever else you don't like. But in the real world of business, it's not the classiest thing in the world to do. You ask him to tender his resignation, and then tell the world that he had a nice run, he did a great job, and you have great respect for him. But at this time, the organization has decided to go in a different direction. I know that's not harsh enough for you. You'd probably prefer that PDA be drawn and quartered in front of the old arena, but alas, that's not going to happen.
Look, lest you misjudge me, let me be clear. I'm not happy about this mess. I wasn't happy about the firing of Malone. I was disappointed in the signing of Landry, not so much that it was Landry, but because of the size and length of the contract, and that, was this the best we could do? Yeah, I get pissed just like everyone else. But I refuse to sit around and live in the past. I refuse to come onto this forum and ***** about Malone being gone. I refuse to prognosticate about what our record would be if Malone was still the coach. Why? Because he's frigging gone!!!!!! And he's not coming back. So what is the point? I have to believe that its going to get better, because if I don't, then I'm gone. And I'm not gone now, because I'm not a quitter. And in order for me not to quit, I have to believe the team is going to improve. That McLemore is going to get better, or were going to trade him for someone that is.
I find it ironic that I, a man 73 years old, is the one with the patience. I, who probably shouldn't buy green banana's, who probably has less time to burn on the clock of life, is willing to wait and let things develop. But so be it. I've dealt with impatient people all my life. They rush to everything, including judgement. But you know, you could be right about all of this. Maybe your spot on. The problem is, if I believed that to be true, I'd be miserable. And to be honest, I would move on at that point. If it's not fun, then why do it. Basketball is supposed to be fun.
Now I know you'd like him to come out and lambast PDA, Mullins, and whomever else you don't like. But in the real world of business, it's not the classiest thing in the world to do. You ask him to tender his resignation, and then tell the world that he had a nice run, he did a great job, and you have great respect for him. But at this time, the organization has decided to go in a different direction. I know that's not harsh enough for you. You'd probably prefer that PDA be drawn and quartered in front of the old arena, but alas, that's not going to happen.
Look, lest you misjudge me, let me be clear. I'm not happy about this mess. I wasn't happy about the firing of Malone. I was disappointed in the signing of Landry, not so much that it was Landry, but because of the size and length of the contract, and that, was this the best we could do? Yeah, I get pissed just like everyone else. But I refuse to sit around and live in the past. I refuse to come onto this forum and ***** about Malone being gone. I refuse to prognosticate about what our record would be if Malone was still the coach. Why? Because he's frigging gone!!!!!! And he's not coming back. So what is the point? I have to believe that its going to get better, because if I don't, then I'm gone. And I'm not gone now, because I'm not a quitter. And in order for me not to quit, I have to believe the team is going to improve. That McLemore is going to get better, or were going to trade him for someone that is.
I find it ironic that I, a man 73 years old, is the one with the patience. I, who probably shouldn't buy green banana's, who probably has less time to burn on the clock of life, is willing to wait and let things develop. But so be it. I've dealt with impatient people all my life. They rush to everything, including judgement. But you know, you could be right about all of this. Maybe your spot on. The problem is, if I believed that to be true, I'd be miserable. And to be honest, I would move on at that point. If it's not fun, then why do it. Basketball is supposed to be fun.
I think I sort of agree with some of what you wrote. Like, I'm not sure that Vlade is ready to be a GM. At least not without someone to mentor him for at least a year. Where I might disagree, is when you threw Vlade into the so called pace fray. I took it to imply that you didn't like the pace of the team that included Vlade, Peja, Webb, Christie, etc. I find that hard to believe, so I suspect you didn't mean it that way. The other thing that confuses me, it folks keep bringing up the Warriors as an example of what we don't want to do. So my question is, which Warrior team are we talking about, because the last time I checked, the current one is leading the western conference in the standings, and is the number one defensive team in the NBA. Seems to me, they might be a good role model.
If the Kings are going to be looking for a new GM, then maybe we should look to bring back Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Although he's never been a GM, he was the assistant GM for the Kings, and he was the GM of the Reno team. By the way, many speculated that he left the team because of who we drafted. I think that's pure nonsense. Disagreements on draft picks are the norm, and no one gets their way all the time. However, remember he was the GM of the Reno team, and I doubt he wanted his name attached to what they're doing there now.
If the Kings are going to be looking for a new GM, then maybe we should look to bring back Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Although he's never been a GM, he was the assistant GM for the Kings, and he was the GM of the Reno team. By the way, many speculated that he left the team because of who we drafted. I think that's pure nonsense. Disagreements on draft picks are the norm, and no one gets their way all the time. However, remember he was the GM of the Reno team, and I doubt he wanted his name attached to what they're doing there now.
I disagree with you here, as many times the the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior, and that comes into play as we as fans are asked to dedicate our time and money to the team going forward.
In any aspect of life when you're expected to dedicate your time and money to a future endeavor, you generally weigh that decision on previous experience and the track record of those asking you to fulfill that expectation. A sports franchise is reliant on fans showing up and paying to watch, watching at home for tv revenue and buying merchandise. We're the customers and without customers, a business plummets. So when fans sit here and ask themselves should I buy this Stauskas jersey or should I dedicate 2.5 hours of my Friday evening to watching this team, should I pony up $250 dollars so my wife and I can go to the game on Sunday or should I fork over this 5K for season tickets next year, the past most certainly comes into play and more often than not, it's the recent past.
Now fans are free to ignore the recent past, just as one person can ignore the last meal he ate at Olive Garden was terrible, yet the next person might not and decide to spend his time and money elsewhere.
And while part of being a fan is hope, I'd say it's misplaced to expect fans of a team who hasn't had success in close to a decade to continue rooting/following/paying based on hope and if that's all sports was about, hope, there's little incentive or accountability on organizations to win. Should Philly fans only look forward or do they have a right to be quite angry at what's transpired the last couple years?
So while Malone may be gone and while some may wash their hands of it moving forward, it does effect others who bought season tickets or NBALP or who are considering setting aside 2.5 hours to watch a game as that decision has impacted and is still impacting those situations. And as a paying fan I'd argue you're well within your right to complain that the product we have now isn't near the product we had in Nov/Dec.
I'd also say, when looking around the league at other teams who started rebuilding after us, Tor, NO, Pho, Wash, etc, we've had to be far more patient than just about any other fan base. IMO an organization can't lose as we have for near a decade, make arguably the biggest blunder the league has seen in years, firing Malone after our first taste of success in 8 years and throwing the season down the toilet, then just tell people to get over it and move on. Some will, more won't, and we see that with game threads being dead. And that's pretty much the point and which we've arrived, where fans are either venting, or they've just gone and done something else with their time which is worse.
In any aspect of life when you're expected to dedicate your time and money to a future endeavor, you generally weigh that decision on previous experience and the track record of those asking you to fulfill that expectation. A sports franchise is reliant on fans showing up and paying to watch, watching at home for tv revenue and buying merchandise. We're the customers and without customers, a business plummets. So when fans sit here and ask themselves should I buy this Stauskas jersey or should I dedicate 2.5 hours of my Friday evening to watching this team, should I pony up $250 dollars so my wife and I can go to the game on Sunday or should I fork over this 5K for season tickets next year, the past most certainly comes into play and more often than not, it's the recent past.
Now fans are free to ignore the recent past, just as one person can ignore the last meal he ate at Olive Garden was terrible, yet the next person might not and decide to spend his time and money elsewhere.
And while part of being a fan is hope, I'd say it's misplaced to expect fans of a team who hasn't had success in close to a decade to continue rooting/following/paying based on hope and if that's all sports was about, hope, there's little incentive or accountability on organizations to win. Should Philly fans only look forward or do they have a right to be quite angry at what's transpired the last couple years?
So while Malone may be gone and while some may wash their hands of it moving forward, it does effect others who bought season tickets or NBALP or who are considering setting aside 2.5 hours to watch a game as that decision has impacted and is still impacting those situations. And as a paying fan I'd argue you're well within your right to complain that the product we have now isn't near the product we had in Nov/Dec.
I'd also say, when looking around the league at other teams who started rebuilding after us, Tor, NO, Pho, Wash, etc, we've had to be far more patient than just about any other fan base. IMO an organization can't lose as we have for near a decade, make arguably the biggest blunder the league has seen in years, firing Malone after our first taste of success in 8 years and throwing the season down the toilet, then just tell people to get over it and move on. Some will, more won't, and we see that with game threads being dead. And that's pretty much the point and which we've arrived, where fans are either venting, or they've just gone and done something else with their time which is worse.
You may be surprised that I don't disagree with anything you just said. Understand, that when I was talking about moving on from the Malone firing, I was giving my personal approach to the firing. I've never been one to dwell in the past. I see no point in it. That doesn't mean I, you, or anyone can't learn from it. It's just that there reaches a point, at least where I'm concerned, where it becomes boring to read the same thing over and over again. Especially when it's not going to change anything. But that's me. I don't expect everyone to deal with it the same way. Confucious (probably misspelled) says, "He who lives in the past, has no future". Just thought I'd throw that in for fun.
Now I agree that sometimes the best way to predict the future, is to look at past history. For instance, I can predict that Cousins will in all likelyhood complain to the ref's in the next game he plays. I feel confident that I can predict he'll likely get another technical before the season ends. But in his case, I have a considerable amount of information to go on. Four years worth not counting his one year at Kentucky. But in the case of Vivek, I don't have that much info to go on, so therefore I don't feel confident predicting anything one way or the other. All I can do is try and read the tea leaves that are available. I know this recession goes back around seven years or so, but most of it predates Vivek. To some extent, he's being punished for the sin's of the Maloofs. The facts are, he inherited a mess, and then made it a bigger mess. Unfortunately for him, he also inherited a much shorter rope than the Maloofs did.
From a fans perspective, its an individual decision as to how much money you want to spend, or how much support you want to give. I've been there and done that. I've been a season ticket holder and watched a bad team play night after night. I watched the people around me come and go, and I couldn't blame them for throwing in the towel. It's damm expensive to go a game. And I'm not just talking about the tickets. But I'm sure you know that. Look, I love coming to this forum and reading what others have to say. You can obtain a lot of info here. But I get tired of coming here and reading one thread after another bashing the team in general, or a player specifically. I don't begrudge anyone the right to do it, its just that I get tired of reading it. Hell, I don't even respond most of the time anymore. Maybe I'm just tired!
Now I agree that sometimes the best way to predict the future, is to look at past history. For instance, I can predict that Cousins will in all likelyhood complain to the ref's in the next game he plays. I feel confident that I can predict he'll likely get another technical before the season ends. But in his case, I have a considerable amount of information to go on. Four years worth not counting his one year at Kentucky. But in the case of Vivek, I don't have that much info to go on, so therefore I don't feel confident predicting anything one way or the other. All I can do is try and read the tea leaves that are available. I know this recession goes back around seven years or so, but most of it predates Vivek. To some extent, he's being punished for the sin's of the Maloofs. The facts are, he inherited a mess, and then made it a bigger mess. Unfortunately for him, he also inherited a much shorter rope than the Maloofs did.
From a fans perspective, its an individual decision as to how much money you want to spend, or how much support you want to give. I've been there and done that. I've been a season ticket holder and watched a bad team play night after night. I watched the people around me come and go, and I couldn't blame them for throwing in the towel. It's damm expensive to go a game. And I'm not just talking about the tickets. But I'm sure you know that. Look, I love coming to this forum and reading what others have to say. You can obtain a lot of info here. But I get tired of coming here and reading one thread after another bashing the team in general, or a player specifically. I don't begrudge anyone the right to do it, its just that I get tired of reading it. Hell, I don't even respond most of the time anymore. Maybe I'm just tired!