What do we have to do to have a winning team?

[TheJewishKing]

It's a good question, first this team needs the right attitude, a positive attitude, a winner attitude, now when we have an experienced coach like George Karl who know a lot about winning it's a good opening step towards changing our attitude, changing our attitude to a winning one means that the Kings can't choke anymore in the final minutes when it all comes to the deciding possessions, Kings must adapt to the fact that it has several players who can finish games and get the job done, but I believe that one will change now that we have our coach.

Another thing the Kings management needs to do is to refresh our roster a little bit, sign only the valuable players in the squad, and try to get the best our of those who we would like to trade, we also need to invest a lot in signing big free agency factors to our team.
Kings need to sign a slasher to the team someone who is a pure shooter, such as: Aaron Afflalo or Wesley Matthews, Danny Green.
The Kings need a solid backup center because Cousins can't take the entire load on his back, I was thinking maybe Timofey Mozgov, Brandan Wright.
I believe Kings should resign Carl Landry and Reggie Evans and try to negotiate in the off-season with solid PF's, for instance: Tristan Thompson, Draymond Green.
Kings also need to have another skilled and experienced veteran player in the league who can definitely contribute to the team: Lou Williams.

I think that all of the names I mentioned in the previous paragraph can be signed by the Kings management if they will invest enough effort and time to attract them to the team and the city, I also believe that the Kings should go after a big name in the SG spot for the next season, because what we have now is certainly not enough.

 

[KingMilz]

If it were possible I would make myself 10 years older to to make Andre Miller 10 years younger

 

[Bricklayer]

A lot of people, Peja fans especially, with some Voison poison groupies in tow, thought that about the Webber injury. I had a sharp exchange with one of them that very night. That's just not knowing the NBA very well. Same as people trying to work up the gumption to jump on Cuz now aren't understanding the NBA. You win with great players, stable lineups, and good coaches.

In any case we have indeed been the worst franchise in the NBA over the last near decade now. But when you ask how do we win again the answer starts with the guys wearing the suits. You hit a horrendous streak like this only through active mismanagement. I was actively calling for us to tank out and get our new star NINE years ago. We delayed, for one single glorious year we were doing it right and picked up Tyreke Evans and DeMarcus Cousins in back to back drafts...and then the door of active front office stupidity slammed down hard. The Maloofs dragged a 4yr rebuild into a 9 and counting one. And then our new management scuttled our resurgence early this year for ****ing pathetic reasons. It takes hard work, blatant incompetence, and a healthy dose of arrogance allowing you to refuse to recognize your own incompetence to be out in the cold this long.

90% of all the answers about how we start winning again have nothing to do with players or anybody else, they have to do the arrogant dipcraps in the front office.

But the cubbard is NOT bare. Not nearly as bare as we make it look. We just simply have mismanaged and fought against success at every turn, and thrown together mismatched pieces and philosophies because the idiots at top have no ****ing clue what they are doing, so people with limited power carve out their little kingdoms, and people with the power act randomly at their whims.

I have said this before, it is as true now as it was then. You could hire ME as god emperor of the Kings and we would immediately be in line to start winning by next season. That simple. Because I am a genius? Well.... But in this case simply because I am not an idiot and take no crap. But at least 2/3 of the front offices in the league could turn this, maybe 3/4. Our problems stem from air conditioned offices, not sweaty gyms.

These are all assets we have going forward:

1) young HOF franchise center
2) old HOF coach, who unfortunately may or may not be best fit for HOF player
3) in prime 20pt scorer #2 weapon
4) Vlade Divac back in front office, several other former Kings, BJax, Christie, Pollard lurking
5) new arena + new revenue opening in a year

completely ignoring everything else, hell, that's one of the best core setups in the entire league. All you need to do is have the front office leadership to get everything pulling in the same direction and you have the raw material to win. Absolutely. We were winning without the HOF coach involved at all, because the former coach, who might turn out to be rather good himself, took it upon himself to get everything within his control moving in the same direction.

 

[VF21]

Troll accusations and passive-aggressive responses are not part of what's accepted around here. I've removed a few posts for that very reason. If anyone wants to continue that kind of stuff, they can take it to "conversations"

 

[ockingsfan]

I think that the Kings need a point guard who is a very good facilitator. Someone that can get DMC and Rudy their shots in the spots they need it.

The point guard is a position they need to upgrade in my opinion, with George Karl as coach. DC is a solid PG and defender, but he is not a facilitator.

I really think the Kings are going to go hard for Ty Lawson this summer and get Karl his floor general from Denver. I think if the Kings keep their top 10 pick this draft, they will trade it to Denver along with maybe DC for Lawson.

I think Lawson can be had for a top 10 pick and I don't think the Kings would even need to include Nik for the trade to happen, but they may need a 3rd team to facilitate a trade.

If the Kings go into next season with this starting lineup:

PF: Jason Thompson
SF: Rudy Gay
Center: DeMarcus Cousins
SG: Ben McClemore
PG: Ty Lawson

I think the Kings make the playoffs with a #6-8 seeding with this starting lineup, as long as they can get some bench help.

 

[PoundForPound]

I think that the Kings need a point guard who is a very good facilitator. Someone that can get DMC and Rudy their shots in the spots they need it.

The point guard is a position they need to upgrade in my opinion, with George Karl as coach. DC is a solid PG and defender, but he is not a facilitator.

I really think the Kings are going to go hard for Ty Lawson this summer and get Karl his floor general from Denver. I think if the Kings keep their top 10 pick this draft, they will trade it to Denver along with maybe DC for Lawson.

I think Lawson can be had for a top 10 pick and I don't think the Kings would even need to include Nik for the trade to happen, but they may need a 3rd team to facilitate a trade.

If the Kings go into next season with this starting lineup:

PF: Jason Thompson
SF: Rudy Gay
Center: DeMarcus Cousins
SG: Ben McClemore
PG: Ty Lawson

I think the Kings make the playoffs with a #6-8 seeding with this starting lineup, as long as they can get some bench help.

Great post. I agree wholeheartedly, however, I'd like for the Kings to somehow go into next season with a new starting power forward. Then i'll be able to say, comfortably, that the team can make the playoffs.

 

[Gilles]

I think that the Kings need a point guard who is a very good facilitator. Someone that can get DMC and Rudy their shots in the spots they need it.

The point guard is a position they need to upgrade in my opinion, with George Karl as coach. DC is a solid PG and defender, but he is not a facilitator.

I really think the Kings are going to go hard for Ty Lawson this summer and get Karl his floor general from Denver. I think if the Kings keep their top 10 pick this draft, they will trade it to Denver along with maybe DC for Lawson.

I think Lawson can be had for a top 10 pick and I don't think the Kings would even need to include Nik for the trade to happen, but they may need a 3rd team to facilitate a trade.

If the Kings go into next season with this starting lineup:

PF: Jason Thompson
SF: Rudy Gay
Center: DeMarcus Cousins
SG: Ben McClemore
PG: Ty Lawson

I think the Kings make the playoffs with a #6-8 seeding with this starting lineup, as long as they can get some bench help.

Ty Lawson gets his assists mostly by driving to the basket off of screens, dishing it to athletes/shooters, who look for openings after defenses have to react to Lawson's drives, or by running the break. None of that makes life easier for DMC or Rudy. To give them the ball "in the spots they need it" you actually don't need 5'11" guy, 6'6" Stauskas would do a much better job (after ha acclimates to NBA, of course).

 

[206Fan]

I think that the Kings need a point guard who is a very good facilitator. Someone that can get DMC and Rudy their shots in the spots they need it.

The point guard is a position they need to upgrade in my opinion, with George Karl as coach. DC is a solid PG and defender, but he is not a facilitator.

I really think the Kings are going to go hard for Ty Lawson this summer and get Karl his floor general from Denver. I think if the Kings keep their top 10 pick this draft, they will trade it to Denver along with maybe DC for Lawson.

I think Lawson can be had for a top 10 pick and I don't think the Kings would even need to include Nik for the trade to happen, but they may need a 3rd team to facilitate a trade.

If the Kings go into next season with this starting lineup:

PF: Jason Thompson
SF: Rudy Gay
Center: DeMarcus Cousins
SG: Ben McClemore
PG: Ty Lawson

I think the Kings make the playoffs with a #6-8 seeding with this starting lineup, as long as they can get some bench help.

I don't think we can make the playoffs with a team like that. PF is still crap. Change JT and maybe Ben. Lots of good fa SGs. Gerald Green, Danny Green, and Wesley Matthews.

 

[lawlman91]

OK maybe I'm the last remaining optimist on this board, but I think we need to tweak the roster a little bit at Pf and than actually need to take a step back and give it time to grow - let Karl and the players develop some chemistry and let the core of our players find their roles and learn to trust each other and play to win and not play for individual achievements and I believe we have a decent chance to be competitive.
Of course I m not against making upgrades to our roster, but I believe in our core and won't mess around with it too much.
As a small market franchise we won't win due to talent alone - we only have a chance if we build some unique atmosphere of trust and get these guys to play as one unit - this will take time and making too many roster moves will hamper this process.

This is one of the posts in the thread that I believe is very, very reasonable.

We all know that chemistry is real with the Malone extravaganza.

 

[9x1x6]

I think that the Kings need a point guard who is a very good facilitator. Someone that can get DMC and Rudy their shots in the spots they need it.

The point guard is a position they need to upgrade in my opinion, with George Karl as coach. DC is a solid PG and defender, but he is not a facilitator.

I really think the Kings are going to go hard for Ty Lawson this summer and get Karl his floor general from Denver. I think if the Kings keep their top 10 pick this draft, they will trade it to Denver along with maybe DC for Lawson.

I think Lawson can be had for a top 10 pick and I don't think the Kings would even need to include Nik for the trade to happen, but they may need a 3rd team to facilitate a trade.

If the Kings go into next season with this starting lineup:

PF: Jason Thompson
SF: Rudy Gay
Center: DeMarcus Cousins
SG: Ben McClemore
PG: Ty Lawson

I think the Kings make the playoffs with a #6-8 seeding with this starting lineup, as long as they can get some bench help.

I think 1 top 8 pick this year is worth having to take on Lawsons contract. Amazing facilitator and only 27, plus he uses reddit.

 

[mac]

Anyone remember when he lit us up this year? Like I mentioned I feel like he could be a effective weapon for us probably best suited off the bench.

Like I said, you live and die by Anderson's chucking. And when I say chucking, I mean chucking. He can go on a tear and hit 6 3's in a game, but he could also keep shooting despite being 1-10. His defense actually isn't that bad and this year he's done a good job of crashing the boards for offensive rebounds and getting offensive putbacks. But I still think we'd be much better off with a Channing Frye who just takes the open 3s rather than Anderson who looks to put up 3s at all cost.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

His post-up game isn't bad. He is an unmitigated chucker this year, though. He would have to be reined in quite a bit in a Kings uniform (8-10 shots per game at most). His defense is also really, really bad.

sign us up for that 8.5m/yr contract for a super bench player that plays no d. cuz did improve like mad on defense. we can now exhaust the hell out of him/shorten his playing career by carrying the offense and defense assignments. yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Big Cuz 15]

What needs to be done to build a winning team is (in order) address long-term weaknesses in passing, spacing/shooting, defense and basketball IQ through personnel changes and sticking with a good coach (like Karl).

1.) Passing - this needs to be addressed through personnel upgrades and changes. Collison has exceeded expectations, but we shouldn't settle if a better passer comes along that doesn't add to our weaknesses above. We also need better passing as a team, particularly at the 2, 4 and entire bench. Think players that not only have a positive A/TO ratio, but also dish out a higher volume of assists vs. current starting personnel (w/o killing the offense, of course).

2.) Spacing/shooting - a more recent weakness (ie last few years). We need more 3p shooters who can spread the floor as well as a starting PF who can space the floor as well (midrange and/or 3P range). As Cousins is our most efficient (and unstoppable) player, this will give him space to operate while spreading the defense.

3.) Defense. Our team has shown that with good coaching, we can be an above-average defensive team. However, we need more defensive personnel, especially off the bench.

4.) Basketball IQ. More players who know how to make the right play.

***

I've said this before, but Pete's only got this offseason to right the ship - and lots of moves need to be made - or he'll be sent his walking papers by an impatient ownership group.

u don't think the special advisor is sharpening his knives for gerbil so he can move into GM mode?

 

[bajaden]

Ever since this happened, this team has done nothing

Overall, in general, your correct. But specifically, your wrong. Webber was injured during the playoffs of the 2002-03 season. The following year, without Webber, the team won 57 and lost 27 games. Webb returned for the playoffs, had a great first game back, but couldn't sustain it and we eventually lost. Many argued that Adelman shouldn't have inserted Webb back into the lineup and that it destroyed the chemistry that had developed that year. The following year, with Webb still in tow the team won 50 games and lost 32 and made the playoffs. The next year, the team won 44 games and lost 38 and made the playoffs. But obviously it was a team in decline. If the rebuild had started then, we'd probably be having a different conversation now. But it didn't. From that point on, the team either had no direction, or had no interest in having a direction. The Maloof's were bankrupt, but acting like they wern't. They were in a total CYOA mode with little regard for the team, the city, or the fans. It wasn't that the Maloof's were inept, it was that they didn't care. Unfortunately, the results were the same.

 

[pshn80]

Our new team by hook or crook:
Center. Cousins. Thompson

Power Forward. Newbie. Thompson

Small Forward. Gay. Casspi

Shooting Guard. Newbie. Stauskas

Point Guard. Collison. Miller/McCallum

Above are ten players. Add to them (1) a PF, (2) a PF/SF, (3) (4) (5) best you can get.
Gone are McLemore, Williams.
The rest are on the fence: Moreland, Evans, Hollins, Landry.

That's for starters. Add in a little chemistry and continued good coaching and a half season of experience playing together and, voila, a spanking new .400 to .450 team and a half season later the will be winners. Kits management, you are free to use this information.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

This team needs to learn to pass with intelligence and develop the instincts that go along with it. Ties right into Bball IQ.

Way too many pass attempts from multiple players, that have a low percentage of working. Cousins and Gay included. The unnecessary turnovers kill flow and rhythm

 

[Spike]

Consistency will make everyone "look smarter" on the court. Having intelligent players means crap if the system doesn't fit, is a crapty system, and/or they haven't had the time to practice it.

 

[Prince_XY]

maybe get a competent front office that has an identity in mind and stick with it, that would be a great start to boot. Proceed then to fill those gaps with players that are willing and able to shoot and play defense is another way to go about it..

How long do you think our FO been operating for you to judge them as incompetent?

Is it as long as Oklahoma's or San Antonio's FO for you to think they are doomed to fail?

BTW, how long did it take from when the OKC's front office started to get their team to a contender status?

So, you think it is easy to get All-Star players to come and play in cowbell town after years of being a losing franchise?

 

[Prince_XY]

I have said this before, it is as true now as it was then. You could hire ME as god emperor of the Kings and we would immediately be in line to start winning by next season. That simple. Because I am a genius? Well.... But in this case simply because I am not an idiot and take no poopoo. But at least 2/3 of the front offices in the league could turn this, maybe 3/4. Our problems stem from air conditioned offices, not sweaty gyms.

These are all assets we have going forward:

1) young HOF franchise center
2) old HOF coach, who unfortunately may or may not be best fit for HOF player
3) in prime 20pt scorer #2 weapon
4) Vlade Divac back in front office, several other former Kings, BJax, Christie, Pollard lurking
5) new arena + new revenue opening in a year

completely ignoring everything else, hell, that's one of the best core setups in the entire league. All you need to do is have the front office leadership to get everything pulling in the same direction and you have the raw material to win. Absolutely. We were winning without the HOF coach involved at all, because the former coach, who might turn out to be rather good himself, took it upon himself to get everything within his control moving in the same direction.

It is really easy to say it is that simple to turn this franchise around, especially for us naive casual fans who hasn't any kind of actual experience running a professional team. Everything seems so simple, because we have not actually done it to realize how hard it is to do.

Brick, you are a very smart man. Do not forget there are lots of variables in play running a multi-million dollar sports team. Just to give one important variable as example, as part of a grand plan you want player A, B, and C to come to Sacramento and you have all the money to give them. If they don't want to come here, then your grand plan is already screwed.

Sometimes I wonder why we don't get it when it is so obvious.

And you want the team to be controlled by your favorite Malone who said analytics does not win games and only defense does?

Come on. We are in the 21st century and nobody believes that the world is flat. And most very good contending teams uses analytics. We all know we cannot win them all with defense alone. What we actually had was a fallacy of hope at the start of the season. But deep inside, we knew we cannot win them all when what the coach was doing in offense again and again was to give the ball to Cousins, Gay, or even IT and have them do the iso-plays do the trick, or have the under-performing rookie Stauskas play at a crucial time of the game.

IMO, we should be thankful to the FO for speeding-up the process of firing Malone. It is a very big positive. Now, we got a true and tested HOF coach in placed.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Nope. Front office gets no extra credit; they could have hired Karl in December. Hell, they could have hired Karl in August.

 

[ParniValjak]

Playing to the strengths of your best player would be a good start!

 

[Chubbs]

It is really easy to say it is that simple to turn this franchise around, especially for us naive casual fans who hasn't any kind of actual experience running a professional team. Everything seems so simple, because we have not actually done it to realize how hard it is to do.

Brick, you are a very smart man. Do not forget there are lots of variables in play running a multi-million dollar sports team. Just to give one important variable as example, as part of a grand plan you want player A, B, and C to come to Sacramento and you have all the money to give them. If they don't want to come here, then your grand plan is already screwed.

Sometimes I wonder why we don't get it when it is so obvious.

And you want the team to be controlled by your favorite Malone who said analytics does not win games and only defense does?

Come on. We are in the 21st century and nobody believes that the world is flat. And most very good contending teams uses analytics. We all know we cannot win them all with defense alone. What we actually had was a fallacy of hope at the start of the season. But deep inside, we knew we cannot win them all when what the coach was doing in offense again and again was to give the ball to Cousins, Gay, or even IT and have them do the iso-plays do the trick, or have the under-performing rookie Stauskas play at a crucial time of the game.

IMO, we should be thankful to the FO for speeding-up the process of firing Malone. It is a very big positive. Now, we got a true and tested HOF coach in placed.

You are embarrassing yourself at this point.

And they aren't winning with Karl either. So stop with the hall of fame stuff.

Thankful? The ****?

Ps-the last play of regulation tonight? ISO to rudy gay.

I am seriously annoyed with you and your tired, stale 'points' you keep repeating. I mean seriously, firing malone is fine cause of one goddamn play to nik stauskas? Which may not have even been the designed play?

For gods sake man.

And Karl is doing the same thing late. ISO to rudy. Seen it multiple times.

 

[randymoss1881]

Playing to the strengths of your best player would be a good start!

You would think that were common sense when your best player is a potential top 4 player in the league

 

[KingMilz]

You would think that were common sense when your best player is a potential top 4 player in the league

Problem with that is our best player doesn't play to his strengths that often......

 

[ParniValjak]

Problem with that is our best player doesn't play to his strengths that often......

Absolute rubbish! It's not Cousins' choice to hang around the perimeter, it's his instruction! This hierarchy, and I include the coach in this, is so obsessed getting the best out of his scrubs even if it is at the expense of your best player. I can understand if that makes you a better team overall and leads to more wins but it's pretty obvious that it doesn't.

 

[Bricklayer]

We all know we cannot win them all with defense alone.

An interesting accusation.

We know nothing of the sort. We know that a bunch of wannabe sports hipster idiots who desperately want to be able to say they have special knowledge run around making specious arguments because of "data points". And we know these particular idiots have proven exactly jack and crap in their entire existence, especially in comparison to all those neandrathal defense and power play advocates of yore. Meanwhile we know that defense has been the absolute core of great team after great team, and in fact there are very few examples of BAD teams who play great defense.

Michael Malone was basketball smarter than any of his bosses. And he was apparently basketball smarter than you, hitching your follower wagon to the flashy dim bulb blond waving vacantly at you.

New does not necessarily mean better. 70 years of history and accumulated knowledge is not trumped by a ****ing calculator. People weren't running around like idiots doing stupid stuff and never noticing it was stupid. They were testing basketball principles in a REAL lab, one involving a dozen players on a side for thousands of games a year, year after year after year. A truly smart man would have been watching and learning. That's where Michael Malone has lived his entire life. A cheap and pathetic man, a software mogul perhaps who didn't even know basketballs were round a decade ago, or an assistant player agent with a correspondence school law degree and a pocket protector, might instead try to take a shortcut and claim ultimate knowledge because of some formula he invented.

The NBA is highly efficient at identifying the most talented players in the world. The NBA is highly HIGHLY INefficient at identifying the best basketball minds to identify and assemble teams of those players. Its who you know, how much money you have made in other industries, were you a good player on the court sometimes, now were you a math major.

 

[Spike]

Here's the real rub.

Statistics are GREAT for evaluation. When you talk about data points and market trends, they can be super.
So far, they mean **** when it comes to being predictive, especially as they relate to people. People suck at being data points. They're emotional. They're inconsistent. They're human.

You can say good teams use analytics, but the really good teams use them to confirm what they already know. But as a whole, whether in sports, education, whatever, prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome.

Those who play the game, whatever the field, know that.

 

[lawlman91]

Statistics derive their value from the soundness of the argument of why that statistic accurately predicts a player's future performance. These statistics are always flawed because of in-game exceptions. Hence, the statistic will always have a constant error bounds; in other words, the quality of that statistic will remain the same. Eye tests derive their value from years of experience, blood, sweat, and tears in the name of basketball: they identify exceptions and then filter those exceptions in order to reach conclusions about a particular player. The more experienced a person becomes, the better that person becomes at identifying exceptions, filtering exceptions, etc. In turn, the eye test will have a decreasing error bounds. Therefore, the quality of the eye test increases as a person becomes more experienced.

The only way to attempt to improve the quality of statistics is to:

1) Modify the equations of an already-existent statistic
2) Create a new kind of statistic

The problem here is that there is no guarantee that doing either of the above will increase the accuracy of that statistic; for all we know, modifying f(x) may actually increase the error in that statistic! Therefore, statistics attempts to improve its accuracy using mathematical reasoning. Meanwhile, the eye test bases its modifications not on mathematical reasoning but on whatever basketball the person is watching or playing at the current moment. A person's eye test will always decrease in error because once one of his/her current beliefs fault, the eye test will modify itself to be more accurate, which means that error will always decrease recursively (since these "new beliefs" will become the "old beliefs" once a new discovery is made).

In conclusion, the eye test is more reliable than statistics because it:

1) More flexibly accounts for exceptions than statistics
2) Will always decrease in error, whereas statistics sometimes increases or decreases in error

 

[mac]

Still waiting to see the results of the analytic special sauce they were talking about 2 years ago.

 

[Albatros]

Apart from cuz I wouldn't lose sleep about blowing this team up. I'm a fan of Rudy but if he needs to be moved so be it.

I don't particularly like Ben as a player I just don't think he'll ever be what you want him to be with his atrocious handle and mental lapses.

Andre Miller is a good head to have around even if he wants to be an assistant at some point.

Ray is just ok but a gross over dribbler who kills offense, Too early to judge Nik.

Omri is probably the only bench guy I keep because I like his drive even if he's fairly limited.

I just don't like this team a hell of a lot. Watching them make the same dumb ass mistakes no matter who is coaching is beyond infuriating. It's clearly mental at this point.