Carmichael Dave innuendo, "We are officially at Defcon One"

[Bricklayer]

I understand what you're saying Brick, but that's not how the NBA works, and that's how it'll never work.

The players are the players and the owners are the owners.

we think the firing of Malone is bad....if we end up not hiring Karl because Cousins or his agent doesn't like him, the Kings will be the laughing stock of the entire NBA to players, coaches, staffs, owners, and Silver. No one in the NBA would ever ever take the Kings seriously again because we'll be known for the team that caters to their players.
It's just not how the NBA works at all.

Like Amick said, is this Vivek's team, or is this Cousins' camp team?

This is how you ruin franchises...the Kings have only been ruined for a year, I have no clue why anyone would want more years.

So anytime Cousins isn't happy, we're going to have to change everything to fit his needs and how he likes it? We're going to have to bend over to our toes to make him happy, or else he'll threaten to bolt? Players in the NBA should have 0 input in anything FO related.

Just doesn't work like that in the NBA, and never has.

Again, I think you're not really that aware of the pertinent NBA history. Not ancient history either. Yes, Kobe basically fired several coaches in L.A. (Rudy T., Mike Brown). He wanted Phil back. He got him. LeBron fired Brown in Cleveland, and left anyway. The players fired Don Nelson in New York, and got Riley's protege Van Gundy instead. Shaq wanted Riles to come back, he came back at SVG's expense. Dwight wanted SVG gone, he was gone. CP3 wanted Doc, Doc he got. etc. etc.

Time and time again this happens with great players. And we are in a perfect situation for it. Vulnerable, having not only not proven we know how to go forward, but having proven we don't have a bleeping clue and have driven the franchise back. Those agents have no respect for us at all. Nor should they. This next hire is precisely 100% about keeping Cousins happy, and as long as Cousins being happy involved winning, then that is absolutely the way it should be. Welcome to the NBA.

 

[Bricklayer]

uhh, duh. That's not the issue here.

Karl isn't the ideal coach if you had your pick of who you wanted. We don't have that luxury. And with the crapstorm created by firing Malone, we no longer have the luxury to wait until the off-season to look for more options. The team is 100% done playing with 30 games left. There's just absolutely nothing positive happening on the floor anymore and it's only going to get worse over the next 2 months. Even worse than fans being pissed off at the FO/team is they're flat out just losing interest in watching/following the Kings. There's simply no other option other than to go get the proven winning coach in here to shake things up.

I don't disagree with that. I do disagree that George Karl is the only hope Obi Wan Kenobi. Or at least I want to hear who their proposed alternative is.

 

[VF21]

I don't disagree with that. I do disagree that George Karl is the only hope Obi Wan Kenobi. Or at least I want to hear who their proposed alternative is.

I think the fear is they don't have an alternative, proposed or otherwise. And if they do, it night just be someone we really don't want. You know, be careful what you wish for.

...Paging Chris Mullin on line 1...

 

[Bricklayer]

I think the fear is they don't have an alternative, proposed or otherwise. And if they do, it night just be someone we really don't want. You know, be careful what you wish for.

...Paging Chris Mullin on line 1...

That's management's proposed alternative.

But if Cousins' camp doesn't want Karl, they have to have something else in mind. I want to hear it.

Karl's a clumsy play. A he's famous so we don't care about fit play, or a *squeak*pace master! pace! *squeak!* play by PDA. Unlike most people desperate for anything here, I'm keeping my distance for that one. Its far better than many alternatives, but its in no way ideal in my book. So I want to hear what the proposed alternative is, and I can only assume a Dan Fegan has no problem expresssing himself about proposed alternatives.

 

[Warhawk]

That's management's proposed alternative.

But if Cousins' camp doesn't want Karl, they have to have something else in mind. I want to hear it.

Karl's a clumsy play. A he's famous so we don't care about fit play, or a *squeak*pace master! pace! *squeak!* play by PDA. Unlike most people desperate for anything here, I'm keeping my distance for that one. Its far better than many alternatives, but its in no way ideal in my book. So I want to hear what the proposed alternative is, and I can only assume a Dan Fegan has no problem expresssing himself about proposed alternatives.

But I also think that is one of the big problems here. We are hearing that Cousin's camp doesn't want Karl, but it appears that it is based on past issues and isn't directly related to Cousins. We have not heard that Cousins has any issues with Karl. Until that happens, or other big-name coaches throw their hat into the ring (that gets express approval from Cousins himself), I am going to continue thinking that Karl is our best choice at this time. This screw-up of a season can't continue like this. Just can't.

 

[jdbraver]

Even if Fegan has an alternative why would they want to come to this team over another vacancy in the summer. Let's face it Karl is as good as we will get. Let's get him b4 he comes to his senses.

 

[Kingster]

Again, I think you're not really that aware of the pertinent NBA history. Not ancient history either. Yes, Kobe basically fired several coaches in L.A. (Rudy T., Mike Brown). He wanted Phil back. He got him. LeBron fired Brown in Cleveland, and left anyway. The players fired Don Nelson in New York, and got Riley's protege Van Gundy instead. Shaq wanted Riles to come back, he came back at SVG's expense. Dwight wanted SVG gone, he was gone. CP3 wanted Doc, Doc he got. etc. etc.

Time and time again this happens with great players. And we are in a perfect situation for it. Vulnerable, having not only not proven we know how to go forward, but having proven we don't have a bleeping clue and have driven the franchise back. Those agents have no respect for us at all. Nor should they. This next hire is precisely 100% about keeping Cousins happy, and as long as Cousins being happy involved winning, then that is absolutely the way it should be. Welcome to the NBA.

Fantastic! Malone is coming back then. Right?

 

[Chubbs]

The dumb thing here is not that they haven't hired Karl. That they haven't hired anyone is the problem. And that they leaked negotiations that went nowhere. So now they've shown they are not content with Corbin.

They've also shown no one is on the same page, and that there still is no plan.

Honestly, who cares what Demarcus thinks? If the front office was united they already would have made a move. It gets this late in the process, and then they leak this nonsense about Cousins camp?

This is all on Vivek. He makes the decisions.

There are more coaches out there than George Karl. I don't understand exactly why this fan base locked in on him as more or less the one and only.

What is ultra concerning is the clumsiness the FO is displaying. No one knows what the hell they are doing and they keep on stepping in it. It's uncanny.

Oh, and it's absolutely ridiculous to think Boogie's camp suddenly has pull. They just fired Boogie's favorite coach. That just happened. Now he's holding up hiring a hall of fame coach?

If Boogie had that much pull this wouldn't be happening.

 

[steelevt]

That's management's proposed alternative.

But if Cousins' camp doesn't want Karl, they have to have something else in mind. I want to hear it.

Karl's a clumsy play. A he's famous so we don't care about fit play, or a *squeak*pace master! pace! *squeak!* play by PDA. Unlike most people desperate for anything here, I'm keeping my distance for that one. Its far better than many alternatives, but its in no way ideal in my book. So I want to hear what the proposed alternative is, and I can only assume a Dan Fegan has no problem expresssing himself about proposed alternatives.

I respect that. It's just I don't know if cousins will outright say I want _____ as the next coach. All I know is we need a new coach. A coach that knows how to win. Winning cures all. But of the choices we've heard. Jackson, mullin, McMillan, gentry, (2 of whom not available) we don't have much choice if we need someone now. If cuz did have an opinion I'd be all for hearing him out. But just saying no without an alternative helps no one.

 

[Kingster]

I think it's safe to say that if they can't agree on Karl, they just aren't interested in winning for the remainder of the season. It's just going to be one humiliating loss after another, just like tonight. If they don't care about winning, why should I?

 

[ESP47]

There are more coaches out there than George Karl. I don't understand exactly why this fan base locked in on him.

He's coached 25 years and missed the playoffs 3 times.

1987 was the last time a Karl coached team didn't finish at .500.

Yeah he has a lot of first round exits and no championships but you know what, I don't care. We're one of the worst markets in basketball, can't sign big name free agents and the players we do have on the roster have currently quit playing. I'll take a first round exit any day of the week.

Playoff basketball is what it's all about. I can live with the team never winning a championship but it's not even interesting to watch if we don't have a shot at the playoffs.

 

[The Hammer]

The dumb thing here is not that they haven't hired Karl. That they haven't hired anyone is the problem. And that they leaked negotiations that went nowhere. So now they've shown they are not content with Corbin.

They've also shown no one is on the same page, and that there still is no plan.

Honestly, who cares what Demarcus thinks? If the front office was united they already would have made a move. It gets this late in the process, and then they leak this nonsense about Cousins camp?

This is all on Vivek. He makes the decisions.

My read on DMC around all this is that all he really wants is strong leadership in the org. Where there was none, you could start to see him desperately trying to fill the void. The strongest negative criticism of Corbin he levelled was that he was a "substitute teacher" i.e. -- nobody respected him and he was a weak leader. I think he honestly wouldn't have a problem with anyone who was a coach... as long as that person was an effective leader of the team, was competent, etc. Style?? Who cares. Even personal style. Who cares! DMC wants to win, and he knows it takes strong leadership for any organization to be winners. He also knows he can't be the coach, gm, and star player, therefore he wants to be on a team, any team, that has strong leadership. Virtually none of his coaches were effective leaders until Malone. That's why he respected Malone so much... and I think that's why he's having serious doubts (obvious in his body language) about being a part of this org long term.

Fegan doesn't always move players. But he can. He is highly adept at representing big stars long term career interests. So good for Cuz. If this team can't pull their head out of their ass and put a winning culture around Cuz, then they deserve to lose him. And I'll be all for it. They'll lose me too.

Speaking of culture... how comical does all the talk of "culture change" look now... when the "culture" at the top is nothing but bickering children.

 

[Bricklayer]

But I also think that is one of the big problems here. We are hearing that Cousin's camp doesn't want Karl, but it appears that it is based on past issues and isn't directly related to Cousins. We have not heard that Cousins has any issues with Karl. Until that happens, or other big-name coaches throw their hat into the ring (that gets express approval from Cousins himself), I am going to continue thinking that Karl is our best choice at this time. This screw-up of a season can't continue like this. Just can't.

Yeah, well obviously if the objection is about something personal to the agents then no, that's ridiculous. Not out of the realm of agent possibility, but should in no way be a big enough hurdle it can't be crossed. The key is Cousins and that coach. If the agents have something else they are trying to line up, I want to hear it. Fegan is a major power player. He knows everybody. Cousins should be becoming a major star for him. What if he's made phone calls, which agents do? Consider some of these scenarios:

1) Cousins himself doesn't want Karl
2) Cousins' agents don't want Karl for personal reasons, but don't care who else it is
3) Cousins' agents don't want Karl because they think he's a bad fit with Cuz, but have no alternatives
4) Cousins' agents have contacted Jeff Van Gundy to take over another great center
5) Cousins' agents are trying to arm wrestle Vivek into rehiring Malone
6) Cousins' agents have made preliminary we-ain't-tampering contact with Thibodeau's camp, and it was favorable for this summer
7) Cousins' agents have talked an old friend named Riles down out of the luxury box for one last go
8) etc.

ok, 7 probably isn't happening. But if there is a holdup here I want to know what else is up before I commit to anything. Dan Fegan is the sort of guy who can make things happen in a way our little gerbil cannot. Is he trying to? I don't know. But this idea that's he's unprofessionally holding a personal grudge and damaging his client's interests in the process seems extremely farfetched. You don't get to be top dog pulling that sort fo stuff.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Again, I think you're not really that aware of the pertinent NBA history. Not ancient history either. Yes, Kobe basically fired several coaches in L.A. (Rudy T., Mike Brown). He wanted Phil back. He got him. LeBron fired Brown in Cleveland, and left anyway. The players fired Don Nelson in New York, and got Riley's protege Van Gundy instead. Shaq wanted Riles to come back, he came back at SVG's expense. Dwight wanted SVG gone, he was gone. CP3 wanted Doc, Doc he got. etc. etc.

Time and time again this happens with great players. And we are in a perfect situation for it. Vulnerable, having not only not proven we know how to go forward, but having proven we don't have a bleeping clue and have driven the franchise back. Those agents have no respect for us at all. Nor should they. This next hire is precisely 100% about keeping Cousins happy, and as long as Cousins being happy involved winning, then that is absolutely the way it should be. Welcome to the NBA.

Sums a lot up, question though, has any player in particular gotten Karl fired? It always seemed like players liked him to me.

It with Cousins it sure seems like it may be sour grapes with his people rather than Cousins in particular, but obviously we don't know what's going on there.

 

[Chubbs]

This tweet still seems pretty relevant. Resistance is not only coming from Boogie's camp.

Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 1m1 minute ago
There is serious resistance to George Karl possibility from some Kings minority owners too. Lead owner Vivek Ranadive hearing from all sides

 

[Bricklayer]

Fantastic! Malone is coming back then. Right?

No he's not. But it was one of the real cherries on top of the incompetence that we had a cheap office backstab go on and they didn't even tell Cuz what was up. Of COURSE you tell your franchise player you are about to axe his friend/mentor/partner. Of COURSE you do. The egos involved here are amazing.

 

[Bricklayer]

This tweet still seems pretty relevant. Resistance is not only coming from Boogie's camp.

Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 1m1 minute ago
There is serious resistance to George Karl possibility from some Kings minority owners too. Lead owner Vivek Ranadive hearing from all sides

That too I am curious about. If I were a minority owner I might object on stylistic grounds. But how many of the minority owners are really basketball saavy people? And if they aren't, what could the objection be at this point to a George Karl? Looks damn good for business to me.

 

[The Hammer]

No he's not. But it was one of the real cherries on top of the incompetence that we had a cheap office backstab go on and they didn't even tell Cuz what was up. Of COURSE you tell your franchise player you are about to axe his friend/mentor/partner. Of COURSE you do. The egos involved here are amazing.

Even WORSE... they CLAIMED they did.. and lied about it!

Hard to look more despicable than that.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Who could these influential minority owners be? Does anyone know what percentage Mark Mastrov and Jacobs Family own? Are they not two largest minority share holder behind Vivek Ranadive's around 60% majority? Surely this list (link) of minority owners mostly local Sac area, adding maybe add Shaq couple others are not the "resistance" partners. Somehow it has smokescreen feel - like problem lies elsewhere - but where?

http://blogs.sacbee.com/city-beat/2...e-1-million-each-to-buy-sacramento-kings.html

 

[Kingfanpaul]

Go into work today feeling enthusiastic and optimistic that we're getting George Karl only to come home from work in disbelief. Then you take into consideration how the team played tonight too and man....what a bummer of a night.

 

[Kingster]

So who are all the freaking alternatives with Hall of Fame credentials who can be hired NOW? Can't wait for that long list. Management said it's Karl or Corbin. Those are the two choices you've got. That's it. You want a Hall of Fame Coach or you want Corbin? I want to do this poll at the end of every disastrous loss that we're going to see for the rest of the season. How many games do we have left?

 

[IfAt1st]

Well-
this dog and pony show certainly fits my conspiracy narrative wherein Vivek doesn't want Cousins on the team, and manages to get Demarcus blamed for not getting Karl as coach.

The part I don't get is that Demarcus could so easily blow this whole charade up if he wasn't down with it.
All he has to say is "I'd love Karl to come coach us", and the organization wouldn't be able to use him as a scapegoat.

This is starting to look dangerously like Demarcus is aiding the narrative that will get him traded to another team.

 

[Albatros]

Good lord what a circus.

At this point if I'm Karl this isn't worth the headache.

Maybe cuz's agents can coach the team.

 

[Sac.Kings]

At this point one has to worry that we end up getting rid of Cousins, Karl says no, and we get nothing. Actually, wouldn't even surprise me. I may not even flinch.

 

[VF21]

At this point one has to worry that we end up getting rid of Cousins, Karl says no, and we get nothing. Actually, wouldn't even surprise me. I may not even flinch.

But...arena.

 

[The Hammer]

Well-
this dog and pony show certainly fits my conspiracy narrative wherein Vivek doesn't want Cousins on the team, and manages to get Demarcus blamed for not getting Karl as coach.

The part I don't get is that Demarcus could so easily blow this whole charade up if he wasn't down with it.
All he has to say is "I'd love Karl to come coach us", and the organization wouldn't be able to use him as a scapegoat.

This is starting to look dangerously like Demarcus is aiding the narrative that will get him traded to another team.

And I wouldn't blame him one bit.

With all the arrogance coming steaming piping hot out of the FO... this has strangely become for me a game of rooting for them to get their comeuppance. This FO, I cannot abide.

 

[The Hammer]

But...arena.

Yeah... and you know who we should really be thanking for the arena: people like Kevin Johnson, Mike Taveras, John Dangberg, etc. It's the City that mustered up the sweet, sweet deal that could have attracted many buyers. It was a fantastic deal for a new owner.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

That too I am curious about. If I were a minority owner I might object on stylistic grounds. But how many of the minority owners are really basketball saavy people? And if they aren't, what could the objection be at this point to a George Karl? Looks damn good for business to me.

Shaq and Mitch are part of the minority group. Perhaps that's where the objections are coming from? If so, you'd have to at least listen. If it's coming from anybody else, it shouldn't be given much consideration for the exact reason you stated - they smply aren't basketball saavy.

I wonder if Rick Adelman is bored in retirement yet?

 

[rhythmless]

Shaq and Mitch are part of the minority group. Perhaps that's where the objections are coming from? If so, you'd have to at least listen. If it's coming from anybody else, it shouldn't be given much consideration for the exact reason you stated - they smply aren't basketball saavy.

I wonder if Rick Adelman is bored in retirement yet?

If RA came back, I would forgive all sins. Too bad he's got enough sense to stay the pace away from Vivek and his goons.

 

[itzcoatl]

I was on board with Karl only because I thought he was best available. I am not willing to bring in Karl for the sake of Karl. He is only a means to an end. And that end is finding a coach that can maximize winning. How much any coach can win in Sacramento will partially be determined upon getting the most out of DMC. If there is another available coach who can get the most out of DMC, then we should get that coach instead of Karl.

It is foolish to force a style of play on DMC that doesn't play to his strengths. No sane person would have put Duncan or Shaq or Olajuwon or, etc. on a run and gun team.