Sacramento Kings
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Tyreke was really a casualty of bringing in a new front office that didn't have the time to really familiarize itself with the existing roster. PDA's approach with Evans seemed to be that he'd resign him if it was a bargain but otherwise he was okay with him leaving. And the reality of the NBA is that somebody is going to overpay for the second tier free agents pretty much every offseason. Letting Reke go after offers was going to result in him coming back with a contract that was higher than D'Alessandro wanted to match. I think if they'd aggressively courted Evans they could have gotten him back at a slightly lower deal - maybe 4/40 or something along those lines. But what bothered me most about it was that signing Landry and trading for Derrick Williams (via Mbah a Moute who they dealt 2nd rounders for) cost the Kings nearly the same as Tyreke last year and are actually costing significantly MORE this season.
Thornton really took a nosedive last season and I'm still not sure why. I figured the best case scenario was him starting over McLemore and putting up a lot of points to make himself a good trade asset around the deadline when hopefully Ben would be coming into his own and ready to start. Unfortunately neither of those things happened.
Still, Evans/Thomas and McLemore/backup SG - Anthony Morrow was a guy I wanted would be a nice guard rotation this season. The team would have still had to figure out their starting SF & PF but I think that Evans/McLemore/Cousins with Thompson and Thomas off the bench is as solid a core to build around as Collison/McLemore/Gay/Cousins with Landry and Williams off the bench. And how nice would it be to have Patrick Patterson off the bench this year?
Thornton really took a nosedive last season and I'm still not sure why. I figured the best case scenario was him starting over McLemore and putting up a lot of points to make himself a good trade asset around the deadline when hopefully Ben would be coming into his own and ready to start. Unfortunately neither of those things happened.
Still, Evans/Thomas and McLemore/backup SG - Anthony Morrow was a guy I wanted would be a nice guard rotation this season. The team would have still had to figure out their starting SF & PF but I think that Evans/McLemore/Cousins with Thompson and Thomas off the bench is as solid a core to build around as Collison/McLemore/Gay/Cousins with Landry and Williams off the bench. And how nice would it be to have Patrick Patterson off the bench this year?
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He had the BB-IQ of a rutabaga.
It looks like he's learned to play his height:
It looks like he's learned to play his height:
Should be noted that he suffers from an actual mental disability that we kept employing as an excuse during his two years with the Kings (If I remember correctly, there was also a rumor that the reason he entered the draft so soon was because he was on the verge of being academically disqualified by the NCAA). He also was incredibly immature and (for a year at least) stuck behind a pretty good big man corp with Boogie/Pre-sucking (i.e. contract year) Samuel Dalembert/JT (before he hit his head and forgot how to play offense)/Carl Landry and then he suffered an injury that caused him to miss most of the season. His second year in the league, things devolved into full Maloofdom and he was stuck behind Boogie/Chuck Hayes/JT/Sucky JJ Hickson and occasionally Donte Greene because this was the season that Keith Smart took over and we know how awesome that was.
What if ......... The trades that happened and didn't happen and same with signings all had merit as do the the observations you offer above. I guess it's having the cake and eating it, too. Meantime we start Cuz, JT,
Gay, Ben and DC with a bunch of familiar guys off the bench. That' who we march with. Maybe we'll get just a little bit better.
Gay, Ben and DC with a bunch of familiar guys off the bench. That' who we march with. Maybe we'll get just a little bit better.
There will always be times that I agree and times I disagree with the decisions made by the Kings FO/ownership when it comes to signings, trades, draft picks etc. But really I was just pointing out that this team could have been built around Tyreke and Cousins and I'm not sure that would have been worlds different than building around Rudy and Cousins. Either way you're right - the Kings have the roster they have and the emphasis should be on how to move forward and improve. That said, I REALLY wish we had been able to substitute Jimmer for Patterson in the Gay trade and that we'd kept Robin Lopez in the Tyreke trade.
Cousins/Lopez/Thompson/Patterson is a heck of a frontcourt rotation.
Cousins/Lopez/Thompson/Patterson is a heck of a frontcourt rotation.
We wasted an entire season on the Tyreke / MT / IT experiment. I distinctly remember you writing lengthy screeds at the time about how a backcourt with multiple 20 point scorers would never work in the NBA. You really think Beno would've fixed all that?
We also tried the Beno / Tyreke duo as a way to compliment each other, which also failed.
Are you saying that you would trade Gay, DC, and Ben to get that foursome back today???
We also tried the Beno / Tyreke duo as a way to compliment each other, which also failed.
Are you saying that you would trade Gay, DC, and Ben to get that foursome back today???
Agree on the Jimmer/ Paterson switch but I never understood or was convinced that we had an option on the Lopez deal. He was part of the trade/transaction but I always had the feeling the deal would only have gone down if Lopez went the way he did. I know our folks on here have always assumed we had a shot at him. But did we?
I don't see why not. Essentially Lopez was included to match up the salaries and trim some fat from New Orleans payroll. The Blazers gave the Kings two 2nd round picks and gave the Pelicans the draft rights to Jeff Withey, their 2nd round pick that summer. I can't imagine if the Kings simply said that they wanted Lopez that New Orleans would have balked. I mean, Withey is a decent backup or third string center but I think the reality is that D'Alessandro wanted to keep the cap space - space that he used to pursue Iguodala and then when that didn't pan out, to sign Carl Landry.
It's interesting that people play out these scenarios as either or propositions. When D'Alessandro came in IT and Thornton were under contract and Evans was a restricted free agent and the Kings still had the #7 pick they used to draft McLemore. They also had all of the players they used to trade for Rudy Gay in Salmons, Patterson and Hayes - just missing Vasquez who obviously came over in the Tyreke S&T.
What they wouldn't have would be Landry (no cap room to sign him) and Derrick Williams - no cap room to trade 2nd rounders for Mbah a Moute and absorb his contract and later flip him for Williams.
But if they wanted, the Kings could have resigned Evans, drafted McLemore and traded for Gay using Fredette in place of Vasquez (and ideally Outlaw in place of Patterson - I think Toronto was desperate enough to dump Gay that they would have done that) and then had a roster of:
PG: Evans/Thomas/McCallum (?)
SG: Thornton/McLemore
SF: Gay/some 10 day contract level SF
PF: Thompson/Patterson/Acy
C: Cousins/Gray/
Is that a good roster? Hard to say. Talented for sure but with 4 high usage/high shot volume ballstoppers in the starting lineup and virtually no consistent outside shooting it would be hard to see how it would work out. But it would be doable. At least for last season. With Cuz's extension and (presumably) resigning IT the team would be over the luxury tax this season.
It's interesting that people play out these scenarios as either or propositions. When D'Alessandro came in IT and Thornton were under contract and Evans was a restricted free agent and the Kings still had the #7 pick they used to draft McLemore. They also had all of the players they used to trade for Rudy Gay in Salmons, Patterson and Hayes - just missing Vasquez who obviously came over in the Tyreke S&T.
What they wouldn't have would be Landry (no cap room to sign him) and Derrick Williams - no cap room to trade 2nd rounders for Mbah a Moute and absorb his contract and later flip him for Williams.
But if they wanted, the Kings could have resigned Evans, drafted McLemore and traded for Gay using Fredette in place of Vasquez (and ideally Outlaw in place of Patterson - I think Toronto was desperate enough to dump Gay that they would have done that) and then had a roster of:
PG: Evans/Thomas/McCallum (?)
SG: Thornton/McLemore
SF: Gay/some 10 day contract level SF
PF: Thompson/Patterson/Acy
C: Cousins/Gray/
Is that a good roster? Hard to say. Talented for sure but with 4 high usage/high shot volume ballstoppers in the starting lineup and virtually no consistent outside shooting it would be hard to see how it would work out. But it would be doable. At least for last season. With Cuz's extension and (presumably) resigning IT the team would be over the luxury tax this season.
I can't believe you guys are still crying over the loss of Tyreke Evans. I think some of you are still more enamored with the thought of what you thought he was going to be instead of what he actually is.
News Flash: He's nothing special and not good fit with Cousins. The Kings had multiple seasons to succeed and grow with Evans and Cousins and it didn't happen.
Tyreke Evans never really improved all that much after his rookie year in the league. Yes he has improved a little bit but not enough to bridge the gap on the league adjusting to him. Hence the reason he never has been able to improve upon the numbers in his rookie season. You know the "20-5-5...................just like Michael Jordan" crap that you all bought into hook, line, and sinker. Make no mistake this forum and Kings fans in general fell hard for Tyreke Evans. So many were convinced he was going to be a superstar franchise player. He was practically anointed the savior. Sure much of that was the Maloofs creating propaganda since they needed to give the fans hope (to keep buying tickets) but the fans were so desperate for a new star that they jumped to anoint Tyreke as the next one.
After several years what happened? I thought the guy was going to be a game-changer? Jordan and Lebron like potential?
Instead Tyreke is just the 2nd or 3rd best player on .500 team with. That's basically going to be his ceiling. People can make all the excuses for him they want but after this many years the time for excuses is over. He hasn't improved much on his flaws and he has still yet to show any leadership skills. He's a nice guy and a humble guy which are both good qualities in a league full of prima donnas but at the same time he just doesn't have that drive and leadership traits that the winning superstar players have.
I remember having the debate with friends during Tyreke's rookie season. I thought Steph Curry was going to a better player long term because not only could he shoot but more importantly he was a better passer with better court vision than Tyreke. Steph had a better basketball IQ then Evans. I was blasted with the "20-5-5........Jordan..........Lebron" stuff and told that Tyreke was going to be a superstar and Steph Curry had already reached his ceiling in college.
Fast forward years later and Tyreke has more or less stayed the same. He still has the same flaws he had coming into the league. Meanwhile Curry has improved his early deficiencies (ball handling and defense) to where he is now an adequate defender and excellent ball-handler. Curry's improvement in the area of ball handling is really remarkable. Steph also has shown the leadership qualities and fire that Tyreke Evans just doesn't have.
It's easy to constantly go back and time and go over what the Kings front office should have done in signings, trades, and draft picks. If that's the case why are we even talking about letting Tyreke go to New Orleans? Let's go back years earlier to when Geoff Petrie passed on Curry to draft Evans........mistake but then again hindsight is 20/20
News Flash: He's nothing special and not good fit with Cousins. The Kings had multiple seasons to succeed and grow with Evans and Cousins and it didn't happen.
Tyreke Evans never really improved all that much after his rookie year in the league. Yes he has improved a little bit but not enough to bridge the gap on the league adjusting to him. Hence the reason he never has been able to improve upon the numbers in his rookie season. You know the "20-5-5...................just like Michael Jordan" crap that you all bought into hook, line, and sinker. Make no mistake this forum and Kings fans in general fell hard for Tyreke Evans. So many were convinced he was going to be a superstar franchise player. He was practically anointed the savior. Sure much of that was the Maloofs creating propaganda since they needed to give the fans hope (to keep buying tickets) but the fans were so desperate for a new star that they jumped to anoint Tyreke as the next one.
After several years what happened? I thought the guy was going to be a game-changer? Jordan and Lebron like potential?
Instead Tyreke is just the 2nd or 3rd best player on .500 team with. That's basically going to be his ceiling. People can make all the excuses for him they want but after this many years the time for excuses is over. He hasn't improved much on his flaws and he has still yet to show any leadership skills. He's a nice guy and a humble guy which are both good qualities in a league full of prima donnas but at the same time he just doesn't have that drive and leadership traits that the winning superstar players have.
I remember having the debate with friends during Tyreke's rookie season. I thought Steph Curry was going to a better player long term because not only could he shoot but more importantly he was a better passer with better court vision than Tyreke. Steph had a better basketball IQ then Evans. I was blasted with the "20-5-5........Jordan..........Lebron" stuff and told that Tyreke was going to be a superstar and Steph Curry had already reached his ceiling in college.
Fast forward years later and Tyreke has more or less stayed the same. He still has the same flaws he had coming into the league. Meanwhile Curry has improved his early deficiencies (ball handling and defense) to where he is now an adequate defender and excellent ball-handler. Curry's improvement in the area of ball handling is really remarkable. Steph also has shown the leadership qualities and fire that Tyreke Evans just doesn't have.
It's easy to constantly go back and time and go over what the Kings front office should have done in signings, trades, and draft picks. If that's the case why are we even talking about letting Tyreke go to New Orleans? Let's go back years earlier to when Geoff Petrie passed on Curry to draft Evans........mistake but then again hindsight is 20/20
Personally I was never that bothered by the Evans trade. I had really high hopes for Tyreke and I thought he was misused and jerked around too much early in his career but the reality is that he never made the leap to being a great player. He had the tools, but clearly Curry, Harden, Blake Griffin had more desire to be great and worked hard to get to the next level. I was just doing it as a thought exercise.
D'Alessandro's defenders have made the argument that he built a much improved roster and while I don't think he's done a bad job of assembling talent, there were a LOT of different ways this team could have been put together. Was it better to let Tyreke go and use that caproom on Landry and Derrick Williams? From a talent perspective I find it hard to say yes.
But Cousins and Tyreke were two very intriguing but flawed players to build around. Cousins because he wasn't a defensive anchor/shotblocker like most great bigs (something Cousins has made remarkable improvement on this season) and Evans because he was a poor outside shooting guard who wasn't a natural floor general but really needed the ball in his hands to be successful.
As for Curry, I will freely admit I never thought he'd be a great NBA player coming out of college. I saw a great college shooter/scorer that I figured would be another SG in a PG's body and essentially be a rich man's Steve Kerr on a good team. It's a testament to (1) the value of outside shooting in today's NBA and (2) Curry's work ethic and drive. And those are exactly the two things that kept Evans from being the guy we hoped he would.
Tyreke Evans isn't a star and he won't ever be. But it's an interesting question as to whether Gay/Cousins is a big upgrade from Evans/Cousins.
D'Alessandro's defenders have made the argument that he built a much improved roster and while I don't think he's done a bad job of assembling talent, there were a LOT of different ways this team could have been put together. Was it better to let Tyreke go and use that caproom on Landry and Derrick Williams? From a talent perspective I find it hard to say yes.
But Cousins and Tyreke were two very intriguing but flawed players to build around. Cousins because he wasn't a defensive anchor/shotblocker like most great bigs (something Cousins has made remarkable improvement on this season) and Evans because he was a poor outside shooting guard who wasn't a natural floor general but really needed the ball in his hands to be successful.
As for Curry, I will freely admit I never thought he'd be a great NBA player coming out of college. I saw a great college shooter/scorer that I figured would be another SG in a PG's body and essentially be a rich man's Steve Kerr on a good team. It's a testament to (1) the value of outside shooting in today's NBA and (2) Curry's work ethic and drive. And those are exactly the two things that kept Evans from being the guy we hoped he would.
Tyreke Evans isn't a star and he won't ever be. But it's an interesting question as to whether Gay/Cousins is a big upgrade from Evans/Cousins.