A McLemore question

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Now, First of All™, I didn't create this thread to build a statue to Ben McLemore, or to tear him to pieces, so fans and haters alike can relax. McLemore's offense, except for the handful of possessions where he hasn't been given time to do anything but react, has been very poor. Pretty much all of the criticism of him on that end of the floor has been earned, and is, for the most part, fair.

His defense, on the other hand, has been solid, and seems to be progressing towards continual improvement in that direction. And, while the mistakes he's made on the court have stood out (in no small part, IYAM, due to the vacuum that the SG position has been for us offensively, and the resultant spotlight and attention that has led to), McLemore has quietly done a good job of doing many of the little things that people claim they're talking about when they say they want players with "high basketball IQ." Which leads me to the following question:

When we drafted this kid, many of us thought that he was going to be the next Ray Allen. But, what if he can develop into the next Tony Allen? Would that really be the worst thing in the world?

 

[NowImLost]

If Ben could become a Tony Allen-esque type player, then I would be more than happy with it.
I want to see Ben succeed as does everyone else, it's just that he has the athleticism and tools to become a decent player but he hasn't had much to show for it.
I know, I know.
It's only his second year, but being drafted #7 and not having displayed much worries me, just a little bit.
With time and growth, Ben should be able to put the pieces together and become something more than what we expect.
Or he could become what he is and never find it.
I hope for the former.

 

[upinsmoke]

The young man is a project but we're feel it's going to pay off down the road.

 

[Entity]

I have been impressed with his improved defense. He is capable on offense it just has to come to him. Defense is the reason we have won these games and Ben has been a large part of that defense.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Ben's defense has been a revelation. I like how he's progressing. The jumpshot will come when he's settled down.

 

[Chubbs]

It's very promising that he's making progress on the defensive end. At some point he'll work through the yips and have that perfect form on his jumper start result in made baskets. Combine that with the defense, he could be a lot better than tony Allen. But if he can be an extremely poverty stricken skid row version of Tony Allen for us this year, it might be enough for .500, assuming continued health, and all star level play from our stars.

How long can we afford to wait/hope for the growth to occur? Is the defensive improvement enough for now as long as he is showing confidence and some semblance of another skill, rebounding perhaps?

 

[Bricklayer]

He has absolutely no chance to be Tony Allen. None. That's instincts and anticipation he does not and will not ever have any more than he can learn to pass like Steve Nash.

But the possible comparison I raised in another thread was DeShawn Stevenson. Hyper athletic young kid (even was in a dunk contest) who came into the league, turned out to be offensively incompetent, but carved out a 10 year career bouncing around the league by being a tough and willing defender. Whether Ben will ever be tough and hardnosed is a (very) open question, but the sort of defensive proficiency a guy like Stevenson had, or Dahntay Jones, is something at least potentially achievable if you have the athletic gifts and the right focus.

 

[Bricklayer]

He is capable on offense it just has to come to him.

There is no evidence of that thus far other than some incredibly far off predraft scouting reports.

 

[Chupacabra]

Not the worst thing in the world at all! I'll take McLemore who is effective for 50% of the game over McLemore who is effective 0% of the game...and effectively costing us games ANY DAY! He really should just focus on defense. Not much he can do about a good looking shot that never goes in. He reminds me a lot of a young Gerald Green.

 

[Bricklayer]

Not the worst thing in the world at all! I'll take McLemore who is effective for 50% of the game over McLemore who is effective 0% of the game...and effectively costing us games ANY DAY! He really should just focus on defense. Not much he can do about a good looking shot that never goes in. He reminds me a lot of a young Gerald Green.

Hmm...not sure that is a great compliment -- a young Gerald Green was an idiot and would never even have considered playing defense.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

He's going to have to stop losing his man when he doesn't have the ball. SO many open 3pt shots for Reddick tonight

 

[rainmaker]

While watching the game I was asking myself could Ben become a Matt Barnes type. A difference I see between Ben and names brought up in this thread, Allen, Stevenson or Barnes is they have a real toughness and chippiness to them I flat out don't see from Ben. They're also natural hustlers, regularly giving 100% and going after almost every loose ball. I don't see that from Ben either.

The kid is young though so who knows. Really lacks confidence. If he had confidence or gets it down the road, will he play with more of the edge these other guys do? As Pop would say, I need to see from nasty from Ben. Need to see some attitude. He still looks bright-eyed.

 

[Chupacabra]

Hmm...not sure that is a great compliment -- a young Gerald Green was an idiot and would never even have considered playing defense.

It's not a compliment at all. All that potential and athletic ability and can't harness any of it. Why couldn't I be 6'5 with the ability to jump like I'm on a trampoline?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

But the possible comparison I raised in another thread was DeShawn Stevenson. Hyper athletic young kid (even was in a dunk contest) who came into the league, turned out to be offensively incompetent, but carved out a 10 year career bouncing around the league by being a tough and willing defender. Whether Ben will ever be tough and hardnosed is a (very) open question, but the sort of defensive proficiency a guy like Stevenson had, or Dahntay Jones, is something at least potentially achievable if you have the athletic gifts and the right focus.

I haven't seen any indication that he's trending towards not being tough.

As others have mentioned, the mechanics of his jump shot look good. And, as I've mentioned, I think that his shot will be fine once he learns to stop thinking so much on offense. But, I also tend to think that he's probably going to be, like, a 4-5 year vet before he reaches the level of comfort that he won't be thinking so much. Which begs the question, is McLemore capable of contributing enough in other areas of the game, for him to last long enough in the league to become a 4-5 year vet?

 

[kingsboi]

Tony Allen...huh? that is 1st team all defense we are talking about, I'm not sure he can get there but maybe 2nd or 3rd team? if we are lucky or if we keep him around long enough for him to reach that status. That being said, I only have one question. Was he a good shooter at Kansas?

 

[Chupacabra]

I haven't seen any indication that he's trending towards not being tough.

I would even go as far to say that i think he is tough. Anyone that had to grow up in an ultra violent, poverty stricken town like Mclemore did has to be atleast a little tough. Being 19 years old and getting your ass handed to you on the court every night also helps forge a tough individual. That much adversity will give a person toughness.

Given his form on his jumpshot and the fact that it was a major reason for him being a top first round draft pick it is absolutely amazing that he struggles to make wide open shots.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Tony Allen...huh? that is 1st team all defense we are talking about, I'm not sure he can get there but maybe 2nd or 3rd team? if we are lucky or if we keep him around long enough for him to reach that status. That being said, I only have one question. Was he a good shooter at Kansas?

According to his B-R.com profile, he shot 49.5 percent at Kansas, but it doesn't break that number down in terms of jumpers versus layups, or anything.

 

[Padrino]

the title of this thread seems appropriate, as ben mclemore remains quite the question mark. that said, i'm appreciating the defense he's providing thus far, and for that reason alone, he deserves to retain the starting job. team chemistry on the defensive end of the floor is so vital to the kings finding (and sustaining) any success this season. hopefully they can get enough offense from mclemore/stauskas on a game-to-game basis to keep the SG position from being statistically barren on the offensive end, but if ben's not hitting shots, i like that he's managing to impact the game in another important way...

 

[VF21]

...When we drafted this kid, many of us thought that he was going to be the next Ray Allen. But, what if he can develop into the next Tony Allen? Would that really be the worst thing in the world?

I'd be happy.

Slightly O/T - Maybe he should keep the third eye patch on his forehead. His defense has improved exponentially since he started wearing it.

 

[gunks]

After last season, I'm down for ANY signs of improvement. His defense is getting better. That's something.

If he tops out as a stud defender, I won't complain.

 

[Gilles]

Tony Allen...huh? that is 1st team all defense we are talking about, I'm not sure he can get there but maybe 2nd or 3rd team? if we are lucky or if we keep him around long enough for him to reach that status. That being said, I only have one question. Was he a good shooter at Kansas?

Breakdown of BMac's shooting in college: http://hoop-math.com/Kansas2013.php

 

[Tetsujin]

It should probably be noted that while his offensive numbers are atrocious, they're still not far off from Nik's, which probably says more about Nik's struggles than Ben's improvement

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

The difference is that most us feel that it's only a matter of a short amount of time, before Nik gets his shot and offensive flow going. Ben on the other hand, after all of last year and what we've seen so far. I don't think anyone has a clue

 

[HereWeBoogie]

It should probably be noted that while his offensive numbers are atrocious, they're still not far off from Nik's, which probably says more about Nik's struggles than Ben's improvement

i do feel that Nik hasn't really gotten many good looks.

Ben on the other hand has had some of the most wide open shots an NBA guard will ever get, and has made 0 of them. The only 2 jump shots he's made were crazy buzzer beaters

 

[macadocious]

I really don't understand why Ben isn't shooting a better %, the form on his jumper has to be in the top 5-10% of the league.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I really don't understand why Ben isn't shooting a better %, the form on his jumper has to be in the top 5-10% of the league.

Lack of confidence and over thinking it. There's a reason why he hit those two threes at the last second it's because those shots were done without any thinking involved.

 

[Bricklayer]

Lack of confidence and over thinking it. There's a reason why he hit those two threes at the last second it's because those shots were done without any thinking involved.

And were pretty much pure luck.

This one today he missed so badly it glanced off the backboard and in. Hey, you take them, but the fact is he hasn't hit a single shot he INTENDED to hit all season so far.

There's just nothing there. Its not even a guy with a structured game who is missing his normal shots. He has no game. I have more game. With Ben...well one positive is he seems to know when and where to pass the ball to for the most part, aside from one dumb forced baseline drive into 3 guys that had him jump in the air and throw the ball in panicked fashion over the top to Boogie. But he's young, those mistakes happen to all young guys. But this year so far I have even less idea than last what a good Ben game would even look like. We just have no evidence. It would have to be built from the ground up.

 

[sactownfan]

Oh Ben... hey Kevin Martin took a little bit before he exploded and his defense was just God awful and still is.... haha I can only pray that Ben's shot comes around and his confidence comes up cause right now the rest of the team doesn't look to pass to anyone playing the SG spot.

 

[Sac.Kings]

And were pretty much pure luck.

This one today he missed so badly it glanced off the backboard and in. Hey, you take them, but the fact is he hasn't hit a single shot he INTENDED to hit all season so far.

There's just nothing there. Its not even a guy with a structured game who is missing his normal shots. He has no game. I have more game. With Ben...well one positive is he seems to know when and where to pass the ball to for the most part, aside from one dumb forced baseline drive into 3 guys that had him jump in the air and throw the ball in panicked fashion over the top to Boogie. But he's young, those mistakes happen to all young guys. But this year so far I have even less idea than last what a good Ben game would even look like. We just have no evidence. It would have to be built from the ground up.

I don't think the Kings have the patience or are even willing to rely on him while he develops. I am also afraid that Ben just doesn't get things. I look at him on the sidelines talking to the coach and during the game and I see a lost sort of look. I have always been an advocate of trading Ben once we drafted Nik. Nik in my mind was drafted to replace Ben while we ship him off for a player we can use. I agree with your assessment of Ben. His defense is improved but he's become even more of a liability on offense, which I thought was impossible after last season. But so far through preseason and these 3 games I get the sense that offensively he has regressed.

 

[VF21]

Oh Ben... hey Kevin Martin took a little bit before he exploded and his defense was just God awful and still is.... haha I can only pray that Ben's shot comes around and his confidence comes up cause right now the rest of the team doesn't look to pass to anyone playing the SG spot.

Ben was drafted much higher than Kevin Martin. And Martin's problem wasn't that he didn't hit his shots; Martin's problem was getting minutes in the first place. In fact, if you recall, he was even left off the playoff roster his rookie year.

Ben has been given every opportunity in the world. If he hadn't been touted as a shooter from the gate it might not be so tough. It's hard to accept a steer when you thought you were buying a bull.