Well, see you in a different uniform next season IT

[LPKingsFan]

Yeah, I thought people were taking his previous comments of wanting to be "the best little guy ever" too far, but this is different. He's doubling down on wanting to go to a team that will let him be a score-first PG. Given the new management's demonstrated interest in pass-first PGs (Calderon, Vasquez, Andre Miller), I'm not sure that team is the Kings.

That said, he continues to show up to things like the City Council meeting, and the interview concludes with "And hopefully it's here."

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Yeah, I thought people were taking his previous comments of wanting to be "the best little guy ever" too far, but this is different. He's doubling down on wanting to go to a team that will let him be a score-first PG. Given the new management's demonstrated interest in pass-first PGs (Calderon, Vasquez, Andre Miller), I'm not sure that team is the Kings.

Ray McCallam is not a pass-first PG. Neither is Dennis Schroeder, if you're counting anyone PDA is rumored to be interested in.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

This is no way sounds like a guy who'll take on a role as a 6th man and in no way sounds like a guy who thinks he's anything other than an elite, score first PG.

Its a good thing he's a legitimate starting PG then. One of the best PGs scoring wise in the league and about average as a playmaker.

Unfortunately for the little guy, that's not what this team needs.

What this team needs is someone who makes it better, which is exactly what Isaiah does.

This whole "having to prove people wrong" mindset, which we often saw manifest itself in many games where he put his 1v1 PG matchup above team play really hurts in a team setting, especially one where Boogie and Rudy are reliant on him feeding them the rock.

Except that never happened?

It's great to a certain extent he has this confidence, every pro player needs that across sports, but, how it fits in the team concept is also very important and how IT views himself as a player does not fit with what we need at the PG position.

Isaiah fits fine at the PG spot. Elite scorer, passable playmaker and third on the team in Usage rate, which is exactly where it should be.

It would be nice to get an upgrade. But until that happens, Isaiah is the best option. I hear all the time about nebulous ideas like "team concept" and "team play" when the advocates haven't the slightest clue on how what they propose actually makes the team better.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Hmm..



Yeah, what a selfish monster, saying he wants to become a better all-around player while showing his support at the City Council meeting

I want to be wanted for being, like I said, a score-first point guard.

he's excellent at what he does. score. i classify him as a microsized shooting guard. he "can" assist but chooses to look for his first. he's known to freeze out other players to boost his ego.

 

[The_Jamal]

CK: How has your summer been going? What is it that you are working on?

IT: Everything, man. I want to come back a more complete player. I feel I can be one of the best guards in the NBA and I’m going to put in the work to do that. There’s nothing specific that I’m really working on, I just want to get better at all aspects

CK: We keep hearing all the press, but what is it you’re thinking about as you go into free agency? Is it Kings? Is it the best fit for you? Where is it you want to be?

IT: Whatever’s best for myself and my family. That’s all I can look forward to right there, because I’ve never been a part of nothing like that and I just have to do what’s best for myself. At the end of the day, I just want to be wanted. I just want to be wanted for being 5-9. I want to be wanted for being, like I said, a score-first point guard. I want to be wanted. If they want me here (in Sacramento), I want to be here.

CK: Do you think you did enough this season to prove you are a starting NBA point guard?

IT: I mean, the numbers speak for themselves. She don’t think I’m a starting NBA point guard (Thomas pointed to a reporter nearby), but it’s fine. But I just got to keep proving people wrong and that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to use that as motivation to keep proving to people that I am a starting point guard in this league.



This is no way sounds like a guy who'll take on a role as a 6th man and in no way sounds like a guy who thinks he's anything other than an elite, score first PG. Unfortunately for the little guy, that's not what this team needs. This whole "having to prove people wrong" mindset, which we often saw manifest itself in many games where he put his 1v1 PG matchup above team play really hurts in a team setting, especially one where Boogie and Rudy are reliant on him feeding them the rock. It's great to a certain extent he has this confidence, every pro player needs that across sports, but, how it fits in the team concept is also very important and how IT views himself as a player does not fit with what we need at the PG position.

1. It's a good thing he's an elite, score first PG then. Or do I need to bring his comparison to Lillard, Steph, Kyrie, Parker again?

2. When did he let his 1v1 PG matchup hurt team play? I don't recall him EVER saying "F off" to other guys on the team and going at his PG counterpart. Hell, Cousins got the ball MORE when IT was on the floor. So this simply isn't true.

3. I agree with him. If he was 6'2, he'd be getting heralded as a top NBA PG. His numbers line up with the elite PGs in the NBA today. But because he's 5'9, he's not taken seriously as a player. And personally, I'd much rather have a player with a chip on his shoulder than someone who gets complacent. Cousins gets praised on this forum for having the same exact mentality.

 

[The_Jamal]

Hmm..



Yeah, what a selfish monster, saying he wants to become a better all-around player while showing his support at the City Council meeting

Yikes! What a selfish monster, indeed! How dare IT want to go to a team that wants him! He should shred that mindset immediately. He should only play in the NBA for other people and not where he's actually want him!

I want to be wanted for being, like I said, a score-first point guard.

he's excellent at what he does. score. i classify him as a microsized shooting guard. he "can" assist but chooses to look for his first. he's known to freeze out other players to boost his ego.

A bunch of tomfoolery that you can't quantify other than with your misguided and biased opinion.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

1. It's a good thing he's an elite, score first PG then. Or do I need to bring his comparison to Lillard, Steph, Kyrie, Parker again?

2. When did he let his 1v1 PG matchup hurt team play? I don't recall him EVER saying "F off" to other guys on the team and going at his PG counterpart. Hell, Cousins got the ball MORE when IT was on the floor. So this simply isn't true.

3. I agree with him. If he was 6'2, he'd be getting heralded as a top NBA PG. His numbers line up with the elite PGs in the NBA today. But because he's 5'9, he's not taken seriously as a player. And personally, I'd much rather have a player with a chip on his shoulder than someone who gets complacent. Cousins gets praised on this forum for having the same exact mentality.

ben was doing well during what periods? greivis at the beginning and during the end with ray. he was lost between those periods.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Yikes! What a selfish monster, indeed! How dare IT want to go to a team that wants him! He should shred that mindset immediately. He should only play in the NBA for other people and not where he's actually want him!



A bunch of tomfoolery that you can't quantify other than with your misguided and biased opinion.

i call it like i see it

5'7 selfish microsized elite scoring guard

 

[LPKingsFan]

ben was doing well during what periods? greivis at the beginning and during the end with ray. he was lost between those periods.

I'm not sure the numbers bear that out. Individually, they might, but I'm not sure where to access that. But according to Basketball-Reference's splits of 2-man combinations, the TEAM was a net -5.6 points/100 possessions with Ben and IT, -4.5 with Ben+Vasquez, and -9 with Ben+McCallum. So, maybe a little bit better with GV, but a lot worse with Ray. (the team was also -7.6 with Ben+Gay)

 

[Henkel]

Of course IT should be pursuing a starting job. He could eventually end up as a 6th man, but heading into free agency after the season he just had a starting job is a reasonable expectation. Some of you make it sound like he's suffering from selfish delusions, which just highlights your own bias.

 

[SacTownKid]

Ray McCallam is not a pass-first PG. Neither is Dennis Schroeder, if you're counting anyone PDA is rumored to be interested in.

Yeah, he's even better. He's a "here Rudy, here Cuz, you have the ball, I'll play off of it and make the game easier for you" type.

 

[funkykingston]

Some interesting things to come out of that interview.

Always interesting to hear IT refer to himself as being 5'9" when that was his measured height barefoot. Pretty much every other NBA player uses their height in shoes (which would make Thomas 5'10" or 5'11") but it's clearly a sticking point for him.

I didn't have any issue with what Thomas said. He HAS earned a big contract. He's shown that he is a very good scorer and decent distributor and has played way beyond his 2nd round deal.

As for wanting to be a score first guard, that's who he is. He's not going to convince teams that all of a sudden he's going to be a pass first playmaker over the off season. He's going to get signed to do what he does. The problem is that most teams don't want a small lead guard as their starting PG. It makes me wonder how many teams are looking at him as a potential starter. And I think that's good for the Kings. I'd love IT back as a super sixth man and spot starter.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Yeah, he's even better. He's a "here Rudy, here Cuz, you have the ball, I'll play off of it and make the game easier for you" type.

I'm not sure how much it makes it easier for Cousins, though. At least, looking at these Basketball-Reference splits. Kings were +2.3 with Cousins+Thomas, -7.9 with Cousins+McCallum, and -11.6 with Cousins+ Vasquez (!!! might have more to do with defense, but yeesh) -.8 with Cousins+Gay, for the record.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Yeah, he's even better. He's a "here Rudy, here Cuz, you have the ball, I'll play off of it and make the game easier for you" type.

Yes, Ray was more deferential to Rudy and Cousins than Isaiah was. Both guys' usage rocketed up. But ultimately that ended up being a bad thing. We were 2 - 8 in games that Ray started, both Rudy and Cousins saw their offensive efficiency plummet, and BOTH the team's offense AND defense (ironically enough) went into the toilet.

So yeah, Ray's really making it easier for DeMarcus and Rudy there, by making the Kings overall a much worse team

 

[dude12]

Save the plus minus numbers, IT has good offensive numbers for himself but his defense is non-existant and it helps equate into a losing record. Not all the blame goes to him for sure but when you quarterback the team, you must take the heat. He is a 6th man who should be providing offense off the bench like Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson. That is what he is or at least should be.

He's not going to see himself in that role and that probably means he's going to be moving on. IT could be part of turning this around but he can't be the starting PG with his defense....can't.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

i call it like i see it

5'7 selfish microsized elite scoring guard

So he's selfish AND he has the ability to shrink (Isaiah is 5'9 barefoot).

What a fascinating fellow

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Save the plus minus numbers, IT has good offensive numbers for himself and the team

Fixed that for you.

Isaiah is an overwhelming plus for the team offensively. Anybody who argues otherwise has no idea what they are watching

 

[LPKingsFan]

Save the plus minus numbers, IT has good offensive numbers for himself but his defense is non-existant and it helps equate into a losing record. Not all the blame goes to him for sure but when you quarterback the team, you must take the heat. He is a 6th man who should be providing offense off the bench like Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson. That is what he is or at least should be.

He's not going to see himself in that role and that probably means he's going to be moving on. IT could be part of turning this around but he can't be the starting PG with his defense....can't.

If you're referring to the numbers I posted, those were +/- numbers for the team (as I put in CAPS) based on player combinations. If IT's defense was a net negative on the court, those numbers would reflect that, no?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Isaiah is an overwhelming plus for the team offensively. Anybody who argues otherwise has no idea what they are watching

An "overwhelming plus," compared to whom? Ray McCallum? Is that the argument to keep Thomas, that he's better than McCallum?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If you're referring to the numbers I posted, those were +/- numbers for the team (as I put in CAPS) based on player combinations. If IT's defense was a net negative on the court, those numbers would reflect that, no?

The numbers you posted don't appear to reflect defensive statistics.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

An "overwhelming plus," compared to whom? Ray McCallum? Is that the argument to keep Thomas, that he's better than McCallum?

You don't understand plus/minus very well do you?

The numbers you posted don't appear to reflect defensive statistics.

The Kings are 3.9 points worse defensively last season with Isaiah off the floor.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If you're referring to the numbers I posted, those were +/- numbers for the team (as I put in CAPS) based on player combinations. If IT's defense was a net negative on the court, those numbers would reflect that, no?

Slim is correct here. Those numbers from BR are net change in Kings' score per 100 possessions, not team +/- (which would of course be the more interesting value).

Edit: I was mistaken. Those numbers appear to indeed be +/-, with a poor short label that misled me.

 

[LPKingsFan]

The numbers you posted don't appear to reflect defensive statistics.

If a team is a net +/- X with a given combo on the floor, which is calculated by the team's points and the opponent points, the defensive impact is accounted for by the opponent points number. It's not a perfect metric, but at the very least it would seem to weigh both sides of the court evenly. If you're a terrible defender, any combo with you is going to have a worse +/- because your poor defense is allowing the opposing team to score more points/100 possessions. Am I missing something?

 

[LPKingsFan]

Slim is correct here. Those numbers from BR are net change in Kings' score per 100 possessions, not team +/- (which would of course be the more interesting value).

Hmm... then why does it say "Points minus Opponent points" in the description then? I'll defer to you on all things numerical, though!

 

[gunks]

Call me crazy but I'd rather keep IT than Rudy.

We could cover IT with a 3 and D SG....We'd be better off with a glue guy type at SF. Too bad we missed out on Iggy, but we can still get Deng!

 

[The_Jamal]

You don't understand plus/minus very well do you?



The Kings are 3.9 points worse defensively last season with Isaiah off the floor.

This. It's actually silly how much worse the Kings were last season without IT on the floor. Part of that is how bad his replacements were. And part of that is he makes an impact when playing.

Literally EVERY team statistic was better with IT on the floor. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02/on-off/2014/

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If a team is a net +/- X with a given combo on the floor, which is calculated by the team's points and the opponent points, the defensive impact is accounted for by the opponent points number. It's not a perfect metric, but at the very least it would seem to weigh both sides of the court evenly. If you're a terrible defender, any combo with you is going to have a worse +/- because your poor defense is allowing the opposing team to score more points/100 possessions. Am I missing something?

What is the opposing teams' FG% when Thomas is on the floor?

 

[CurseOfTheSalmons]

i have determined that isaiah is the problem.

 

[dude12]

Go pour over the numbers if you want but is there someone trying to say IT is not a defensive liability? I'd prefer to ave a PG that can actually play some defense. IT is a fine offensive player but I'd like to see our PG actually stop the opposing PG. The team needs a starting PG capable of scoring and defending and facilitating an offense. IT wants to be only one of these (his own thought process) which makes him a very good 6th man

 

[rainmaker]

Its a good thing he's a legitimate starting PG then. One of the best PGs scoring wise in the league and about average as a playmaker.

We don't need that.

What this team needs is someone who makes it better, which is exactly what Isaiah does.

Marginally and the ceiling is low. It's more about fit, especially given our cap space.

Except that never happened?

Why the question mark? He's taken 1v1 PG matchups personal a number of times.

Isaiah fits fine at the PG spot. Elite scorer, passable playmaker and third on the team in Usage rate, which is exactly where it should be.

No, he doesn't fit fine. Elite scorer, arguable. Yet, we don't need an elite scorer at PG which is what you fail to understand. We need a) defense, b) a ball mover and c) a PG who understands the flow of the game. Being tall enough to get the ice out of the freezer wouldn't hurt either.

It would be nice to get an upgrade. But until that happens, Isaiah is the best option.

What you also fail to understand is it's going to be damn hard, if not near impossible to re-sign IT, then get an upgrade. You want an upgrade, you don't re-sign IT, not for the money he'd presumably be asking for given his statements.