Donald Sterling up to his old tricks

[ESP47]

We're talking about a mans right to say what he wants in PRIVATE. I'm not condoning his ignorance but how far are we going to take this stuff? Are we going to trap ourselves in a world where no one is allowed to be honest, even in private anymore? It's one thing to walk into work and make racist remarks and it's another to have a private conversation at home taped and then brought to work for everyone to hear.

Absolutely everyone who wants this guy out is a full blown hypocrite because there is absolutely no one out there who has ever not said anything racist in private. It's human nature whether it's ignorant or not. All I'm saying is that you need to give yourself a long look in the mirror before you go trying to burn this guy at the stake.

 

[Padrino]

We're talking about a mans right to say what he wants in PRIVATE. I'm not condoning his ignorance but how far are we going to take this stuff? Are we going to trap ourselves in a world where no one is allowed to be honest, even in private anymore? It's one thing to walk into work and make racist remarks and it's another to have a private conversation at home taped and then brought to work for everyone to hear.

Absolutely everyone who wants this guy out is a full blown hypocrite because there is absolutely no one out there who has ever not said anything racist in private. It's human nature whether it's ignorant or not. All I'm saying is that you need to give yourself a long look in the mirror before you go trying to burn this guy at the stake.

no, we're talking about a man with a history of deeply racist and inexcusable behavior, and despite the fact that this most recent outburst of racist (and sexist) commentary occurred in private, it represents an excellent opportunity for adam silver to act where david stern had previously enabled...

Here Are All The Shockingly Awful Donald Sterling Stories That The NBA Ignored For Years

 

[Kingster]

We're talking about a mans right to say what he wants in PRIVATE. I'm not condoning his ignorance but how far are we going to take this stuff? Are we going to trap ourselves in a world where no one is allowed to be honest, even in private anymore? It's one thing to walk into work and make racist remarks and it's another to have a private conversation at home taped and then brought to work for everyone to hear.

Absolutely everyone who wants this guy out is a full blown hypocrite because there is absolutely no one out there who has ever not said anything racist in private. It's human nature whether it's ignorant or not. All I'm saying is that you need to give yourself a long look in the mirror before you go trying to burn this guy at the stake.

I'm with you on this statement in particular. The internet/twitter/24-7 hyper-media environment is creating a 1984-ish environment in which there is no private life. I remember years ago listening to a guy who wrote a fictional story in which he posited that there was an individual who found himself in huge arena of people and the people in the arena hated him for some reason. They bood him and yelled epithets at him until eventually his heart stopped - they literally hated him to death. Now we have a "virtual arena" in which we bounce from one person to the other, finding fault collectively, manufacturing a firestorm over the private thoughts of an individual. It makes you wonder where it is heading.

PS To my knowledge I haven't made a racist comment in my entire life. But no doubt in my mind I've made other comments that I wouldn't want the public hearing.

 

[jalfa]

We're talking about a mans right to say what he wants in PRIVATE. I'm not condoning his ignorance but how far are we going to take this stuff? Are we going to trap ourselves in a world where no one is allowed to be honest, even in private anymore? It's one thing to walk into work and make racist remarks and it's another to have a private conversation at home taped and then brought to work for everyone to hear.

Absolutely everyone who wants this guy out is a full blown hypocrite because there is absolutely no one out there who has ever not said anything racist in private. It's human nature whether it's ignorant or not. All I'm saying is that you need to give yourself a long look in the mirror before you go trying to burn this guy at the stake.

if the NBA were a court of law, this tape would be inadmissible evidence, sure. luckily it's not and has every right to protect itself against damages to its reputation. whether or not the way his views have been caught on tape are ethical is, at this point, irrelevant. fact is, the tape exists and the damage is real and not going away soon. it would've been better if things had been done years ago, as Sterling's track record as a slumlord, racist, and overall horrible human being is well-known. however, it's happening now and even though the trigger for this avalanche is dubious, at least something is happening.

 

[Padrino]

I find it very odd that the crime is he doesn't want his black girlfriend to be seen with black guys, and as Trueblood detailed there's been a ton of stuff that came out before that seemed worse. So why now? Is it because Magic Johnson was one of the black guys he didn't want his black girlfriend to be around.

for those wondering "why now?", it's simply a matter of dissemination of information. the speed at which information moves in 2014 far exceeds that of the newspaper/magazine/television eras. previously, donald sterling's racist behavior was contained primarily within two spheres of information: the nba's and the city of los angeles'. the former did its best to sweep each individual donald sterling-related disgrace under the rug, and the latter has always contained a multitude of higher profile distractions, including a much more famous professional basketball franchise that was winning while sterling's clippers were mired in his poor stewardship of the team...

in short, a wider conversation of how a professional sports league deals with a racist owner of one of its teams never really occurred, because the information didn't spread outward far enough for the public to express any level of outrage. the issue was contained; it was ignored. many of the nba's youngest generations of players were not even aware of sterling's history of racism prior to tmz's release of the recording. many in the general public likewise had no idea. die-hard fans of nba basketball knew, and clippers fans certainly knew, but now that the clippers are relevant, now that blake griffin's cape-wearing kia commercial hero is gracing tv's all over america, and now that information moves at the speed of light, enough people know of donald sterling's terrible behavior to express an educated level of outrage...

beyond that, the "why now?" question is largely irrelevant. the negligence of the past is not a justification for inaction in the present...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

This is the biggest overreaction I've seen in years. Old white guy is racist...what are the odds of that? Old white guy says something racist in PRIVATE to his gold digger girlfriend and it gets leaked out. Now he has to be punished and get himself forced out of the league?

Yup.

This world is completely full of hypocrites. Ever said anything racist or made a racist joke in private to a spouse, friend or family member?

Uhh... no.

It's one thing to go on record making racist remarks and it's another thing to have a private conversation with somebody and have it leaked to TMZ and forced fed from the professional "I'm offended" crowd and jammed down the throats of every American. They try and make us feel like we should be completely outraged that some old guy said something racist in the privacy of his own home. It's ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is thinking that those two situations are remotely comparable. There's a world of difference between Joe Klansman having racist beliefs, and a guy who actually has the ability to deny other people housing, or deny other people economic opportunity having racist beliefs. It's like the difference between your neighbor being racist, and your boss being racist.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

We're talking about a mans right to say what he wants in PRIVATE.

No, that's what you're talking about, that's not what we're talking about.

I'm not condoning his ignorance but how far are we going to take this stuff? Are we going to trap ourselves in a world where no one is allowed to be honest, even in private anymore? It's one thing to walk into work and make racist remarks and it's another to have a private conversation at home taped and then brought to work for everyone to hear.

Oh please. This isn't a "thought crime" issue. We're talking about a guy with a proven track record of acting on his racist beliefs. That goes way beyond just thinking about it.

Absolutely everyone who wants this guy out is a full blown hypocrite because there is absolutely no one out there who has ever not said anything racist in private. It's human nature whether it's ignorant or not.

Bull ****ing ****! Speak for yourself.

 

[whozit]

Yup.

...


What's ridiculous is thinking that those two situations are remotely comparable. There's a world of difference between Joe Klansman having racist beliefs, and a guy who actually has the ability to deny other people housing, or deny other people economic opportunity having racist beliefs. It's like the difference between your neighbor being racist, and your boss being racist.

What's that old adage about your having a right to wave your fists in the air but that right ending at the tip of my nose.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That's exactly right.

 

[Hadlowe]

I'm with you on this statement in particular. The internet/twitter/24-7 hyper-media environment is creating a 1984-ish environment in which there is no private life. I remember years ago listening to a guy who wrote a fictional story in which he posited that there was an individual who found himself in huge arena of people and the people in the arena hated him for some reason. They bood him and yelled epithets at him until eventually his heart stopped - they literally hated him to death. Now we have a "virtual arena" in which we bounce from one person to the other, finding fault collectively, manufacturing a firestorm over the private thoughts of an individual. It makes you wonder where it is heading.

PS To my knowledge I haven't made a racist comment in my entire life. But no doubt in my mind I've made other comments that I wouldn't want the public hearing.

I believe you are referring to "The Public Hating" by former Tonight Show host, Steve Allen.

Stirling is a jackass, both for his long history of racist housing practices as well as foisting the Clippers on the league over the last thirty years when they were consistently terrible. Whether he deserves to lose his team or not, I leave to the board of governors.

While I am uncomfortable with the way that this bit of salaciousness came to light (surreptitiously recorded private conversations leaked through that bastion of integrity, TMZ), Stirling was having an open and notorious affair with a woman several decades his junior. How terribly shocking that this gold digger ended up doing something to make his public life uncomfortable, he said with a yawn.

 

[jalfa]

 

[ESP47]

Yup.

Uhh... no.



What's ridiculous is thinking that those two situations are remotely comparable. There's a world of difference between Joe Klansman having racist beliefs, and a guy who actually has the ability to deny other people housing, or deny other people economic opportunity having racist beliefs. It's like the difference between your neighbor being racist, and your boss being racist.

All I can say is don't cast stones from glass houses. Lets record your daily conversations and then bring them to work and let your boss go through them. Then we can all burn you at the stake for not being the perfect human being that you apparently hold everyone else accountable to be.

if the NBA were a court of law, this tape would be inadmissible evidence, sure. luckily it's not and has every right to protect itself against damages to its reputation. whether or not the way his views have been caught on tape are ethical is, at this point, irrelevant. fact is, the tape exists and the damage is real and not going away soon. it would've been better if things had been done years ago, as Sterling's track record as a slumlord, racist, and overall horrible human being is well-known. however, it's happening now and even though the trigger for this avalanche is dubious, at least something is happening.

This isn't a crime so the whole court of law thing makes no sense. At what point does the 1984 junk stop? Lets let the NSA release your phone conversations and your internet activity to your work and let them "protect themselves against damages to their reputation".

How far do you guys want to take this? Should we strip away peoples rights to where they can't even have private conversations without fear of being fired from their jobs? Sounds like as long as it's happening to someone else, you guys are ok with it. I'm sure as crap you guys would have a completely different opinion about it if someone recorded an inappropriate conversation you had with someone and then plastered it all over the internet and tv.

 

[jalfa]

All I can say is don't cast stones from glass houses. Lets record your daily conversations and then bring them to work and let your boss go through them. Then we can all burn you at the stake for not being the perfect human being that you apparently hold everyone else accountable to be.



This isn't a crime so the whole court of law thing makes no sense. At what point does the 1984 junk stop? Lets let the NSA release your phone conversations and your internet activity to your work and let them "protect themselves against damages to their reputation".

How far do you guys want to take this? Should we strip away peoples rights to where they can't even have private conversations without fear of being fired from their jobs? Sounds like as long as it's happening to someone else, you guys are ok with it. I'm sure as poopoo you guys would have a completely different opinion about it if someone recorded an inappropriate conversation you had with someone and then plastered it all over the internet and tv.

you keep making that comparison to an ordinary person and it just doesn't hold water. Sterling is a public figure inextricably linked to the product he's selling. public outrage at the view he has voiced will cost not only him (looking at the running sponsors, etc.), but also the NBA itself by association. therefore, the NBA has every right to defend itself and its product under the by-laws of the NBA. what the precise reason behind said outrage is doesn't matter at that point.

as far as the ex-girlfriend goes, I assume she'll be prosecuted by Sterling and his lawyers for releasing this tape. if anybody is guilty of a crime, it's her, I don't know enough about American law to judge that. it really doesn't matter in the context of Sterling being punished, though.

 

[HndsmCelt]

How far do you guys want to take this? Should we strip away peoples rights to where they can't even have private conversations without fear of being fired from their jobs? Sounds like as long as it's happening to someone else, you guys are ok with it. I'm sure as poopoo you guys would have a completely different opinion about it if someone recorded an inappropriate conversation you had with someone and then plastered it all over the internet and tv.

You miss the point. Noone is suggesting that Sterling or any one else should have RIGHTS taken away. Dude can be a bigoted jerk as long as he wants and can say what ever he wants in public OR private. It's just that the overwhelming majority of NBA players, fans etc. don't want to hear it and don't want his sheet wearing butt to own a team. There is no RIGHT to own a team (just ask Hansen, Bamer and Ellison) The other owners, players and fans have every right to want him gone and take every legal action to make that happen.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

All I can say is don't cast stones from glass houses. Lets record your daily conversations and then bring them to work and let your boss go through them. Then we can all burn you at the stake for not being the perfect human being that you apparently hold everyone else accountable to be.

This may come as a shock to you, but you don't have to be "perfect" to not be a racist. It requires little more than not being a horrible human being.

Anybody recording my conversations (they wouldn't be "daily" conversations, because I don't converse with people daily) would be treated to encyclopaedic discussions of professional wrestling, and women's basketball, and not much else. If you record my conversations with my best friend, you might also occasionally transcribe discussions about fatherhood or comic books.

This isn't a crime so the whole court of law thing makes no sense. At what point does the 1984 junk stop? Lets let the NSA release your phone conversations and your internet activity to your work and let them "protect themselves against damages to their reputation".

Sterling has never denied that it was him on the tape. TTBOMK, he hasn't even claimed that it was recorded without his knowledge. AFAIK, people are just sort of assuming it was. My understanding is that the recording may have been released without his consent, but that it was not recorded illegally. If anything, I'd heard something yesterday which indicated that he not only knew that he was being recorded, but that he asked her to do so on a regular basis, and that, before they had their falling out and she vowed to "get even," she had advised him what was on the tape, and that he was okay with everything he had said.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

How far do you guys want to take this? Should we strip away peoples rights to where they can't even have private conversations without fear of being fired from their jobs? Sounds like as long as it's happening to someone else, you guys are ok with it. I'm sure as poopoo you guys would have a completely different opinion about it if someone recorded an inappropriate conversation you had with someone and then plastered it all over the internet and tv.

You miss the point. Noone is suggesting that Sterling or any one else should have RIGHTS taken away. Dude can be a bigoted jerk as long as he wants and can say what ever he wants in public OR private. It's just that the overwhelming majority of NBA players, fans etc. don't want to hear it and don't want his sheet wearing butt to own a team. There is no RIGHT to own a team (just ask Hansen, Bamer and Ellison) The other owners, players and fans have every right to want him gone and take every legal action to make that happen.

To put it another way, you have the right to say what you want. You don't have the right to say what you want, without consequences. Hence, why sponsors are withdrawing from the Clippers, and that's the least he deserves. Ass****s should be called out for their assholery. And, when you're at the head of the pyramid, and have the ability to hire and fire people, to evict people from their homes and cast them out into the street, that's doubly true.

 

[Glenn]

This could end up being a very complex discussion and possibly a heated discussion like we used to have. I think it's remarkable that it has been as civil as it has been.

Sterling's goose is cooked whether he is uniquely racist or shares thoughts and statements of other people on this forum. The big difference between us and him is that he has a huge impact and his racism has been at the heart of lawsuits before. His racism has hurt people. It's not "just" the hurt of using nasty words to describe groups of people but actions that hurt groups of people.

I was extremely struck that Kareem Abdul Jabbar went public. He NEVER goes public and to me when Kareem speaks, I listen. I had already thought of this but Kareem's comment was that the most surprising thing in this whole mess is that it took so long for Sterling's behavior and speech to be exposed. Sterling is 80 years old and it's not like his racism popped into his head a few days ago. His racism is well documented, this "private" conversation being only one example of a long list of things he has done. In the meanwhile, the NBA has looked the other way. Heck, I thought the NBA was looking the other way when he decade after decade fielded non competitive teams. It's worse than that. They ignored his racism. The local NAACP is looking the other way. He donates money to the local NAACP and he wouldn't be the first person to buy himself an award.

This guy thinks he is not a racist because he buys homes for the players, etc. That's an odd way of saying that he pays their salary and they spend it but it had a plantation owner feel about it. I have a personal problem with rich people living a life where they escape the repercussions of their behavior that the rest of us would experience. This situation has a greater stench. This man's behavior has been swept under the carpet by at least two institutions that should have a huge interest in what he has said; the NBA and NAACP. He has bought his way out of trouble a great deal of his life or so I believe. I suspect he is so used to having his views accepted that he doesn't know that what he has said in this instance is wrong. How is he going to learn if the NBA and NAACP look the other way? He doesn't get it and probably won't. Reminds me of another character on a horse in Nevada.

We cannot continue to cover for these people. The "crime" is as much ours as it is his. He has been enabled. Kareem is correct is saying that what is shocking about this is that no one seemed to know he was a racist. All the data was there. It didn't take a genius to figure it out. This Emperor has not been wearing clothes yet no one has noticed?

We will not change Sterling but we can change ourselves if we find anything within ourselves that sounds similar to Sterling. Let's not make excuses for him. That only perpetuates the problem. Let us learn what is hurtful if not plain wrong and also learn why it is hurtful. It is the "why" that is very important. If we can learn the "why," perhaps a little bit of change can occur.

 

[Kingster]

for those wondering "why now?", it's simply a matter of dissemination of information. the speed at which information moves in 2014 far exceeds that of the newspaper/magazine/television eras. previously, donald sterling's racist behavior was contained primarily within two spheres of information: the nba's and the city of los angeles'. the former did its best to sweep each individual donald sterling-related disgrace under the rug, and the latter has always contained a multitude of higher profile distractions, including a much more famous professional basketball franchise that was winning while sterling's clippers were mired in his poor stewardship of the team...

in short, a wider conversation of how a professional sports league deals with a racist owner of one of its teams never really occurred, because the information didn't spread outward far enough for the public to express any level of outrage. the issue was contained; it was ignored. many of the nba's youngest generations of players were not even aware of sterling's history of racism prior to tmz's release of the recording. many in the general public likewise had no idea. die-hard fans of nba basketball knew, and clippers fans certainly knew, but now that the clippers are relevant, now that blake griffin's cape-wearing kia commercial hero is gracing tv's all over america, and now that information moves at the speed of light, enough people know of donald sterling's terrible behavior to express an educated level of outrage...

beyond that, the "why now?" question is largely irrelevant. the negligence of the past is not a justification for inaction in the present...

Well, I intended the first paragraph to be a completely separate post, so my mistake on that.

That said, I don't think the questions of privacy, timing, hypocrisy, or racism surrounding the events are irrelevant. There are a multitude of levels and questions and aspects to this story. One can have a field day just disussing the privacy matter. Then there is the hypocrisy (by everyone who knew of his racism prior to this event, but who are just now screaming from the mountaintops). Then there is the racism itself. The timing of this is also relevant. Why wasn't the issue a lightning rod when it had actual real effects, such as hiring practices and real estate rental practices? It is odd that those circumstances did not engender the public uproar that Sterling telling his black mistress not to be seen publicly with black men engendered. Have the zombies now awakened? Sometimes it floors me what captures the public attention and what doesn't.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

As far as his racism "not coming to light," and I hate to say it, but I think that a lot of the minority players and/or coaches (all of whom, I think, are also former players) allowed themselves to be insulated from it. As was articulated yesterday by a few former players, the fact that they were successful, upstanding men, who were making these all these owners money, allowed many of them to rationalize it away, and convince themselves, "Oh, he's not talking about me; he's talking about those Black people!" And when these statements come to life, and they realize, "No, he's talking about you, too!", that has led to a much more vocal reaction than his previous racist behavior.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Breaking news: Banned for life!

$2.5M fine, maximum allowable under NBA constitution.
Urging other owners to force a sale of the team.
UPDATE: lifetime ban is independent of whether or not he sells the team.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Breaking news: Banned for life!

$2.5M fine, maximum allowable under NBA constitution.
Urging other owners to force a sale of the team.

Pretty much the harshest penalty Silver could handout...Well done!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Whoa! Lisa Guerrerro from Inside Edition putting the Commish on blast! Mainstream coverage.

EDIT - Also, and I just realized this, NBC broke into their regular programming to cover the press conference; presumably, other networks did, as well.

 

[Padrino]

Breaking news: Banned for life!

$2.5M fine, maximum allowable under NBA constitution.
Urging other owners to force a sale of the team.

watching press conference, too. board of governors can force sale with vote, requires 3/4 approval...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

watching press conference, too. board of governors can force sale with vote, requires 3/4 approval...

If 3/4 of the owners vote him out, could he even take them to court?

 

[Tetsujin]

Silver dropping the Mjolnir-esque ban hammer. Heck of a way to start his regime

 

[Padrino]

If 3/4 of the owners vote him out, could he even take them to court?

that's a good question, and i wouldn't know the answer to that. i would assume that he wouldn't have much in the way of legal standing, but the guy's motto is "i don't sell," and if there's a way to fight it, i'd also assume that he'd go down swinging...

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Silver dropping the Mjolnir-esque ban hammer. Heck of a way to start his regime

Considering how soft he was over the previous two months, he pretty much had to.

 

[HndsmCelt]

that's a good question, and i wouldn't know the answer to that. i would assume that he wouldn't have much in the way of legal standing, but the guy's motto is "i don't sell," and if there's a way to fight it, i'd also assume that he'd go down swinging...

On the one hand a BOG force out has never been litigated, so who knows how it would go. But on the other hand with sponsors fleeing and other consequences looming he may decide toto just take the huge cash out he would get from a sale.

 

[Padrino]

On the one hand a BOG force out has never been litigated, so who knows how it would go. But on the other hand with sponsors fleeing and other consequences looming he may decide toto just take the huge cash out he would get from a sale.

that's true. with both the kings and bucks selling for over $500 million, many are speculating that the clippers could easily sell for over $1 billion. HUGE cash-out. RECORD-SHATTERING cash-out, to be more precise.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Well done to Silver for coming down as hard as he possibly could. Hopefully the other owners vote for the scumbag to sell and the NBA can be permanently rid of him.