Jimmer Fredette

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Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#61
#61
What I "saw" was that Jimmer lost his confidence when IT came in. That may have a lot to do with the fact Jimmer didn't have his hands on the ball as much. Then again, maybe we are making too much about nothing. I really don't want Jimmer on the court with IT as that also implies he'll be in the court with Rudy and Cuz and I don't have a clue how that's supposed to work out. The sg has no offensive roll with IT, cuz, and Rudy. Heck, there barely are enough shots to go around with Cuz and Rudy and IT so why add Jimmer? It certainly isn't for his defensive prowess.
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#62
#62
Glenn said:
What I "saw" was that Jimmer lost his confidence when IT came in. That may have a lot to do with the fact Jimmer didn't have his hands on the ball as much. Then again, maybe we are making too much about nothing. I really don't want Jimmer on the court with IT as that also implies he'll be in the court with Rudy and Cuz and I don't have a clue how that's supposed to work out. The sg has no offensive roll with IT, cuz, and Rudy. Heck, there barely are enough shots to go around with Cuz and Rudy and IT so why add Jimmer? It certainly isn't for his defensive prowess.
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It appears that he feels obligated to give the ball to IT all the time? I wish he wouldn't do that and just run the offense or push it up himself once in a while, when they're in together
 
T

treach1976

Bench
#63
#63
ShastaKingsFan said:
It appears that he feels obligated to give the ball to IT all the time? I wish he wouldn't do that and just run the offense or push it up himself once in a while, when they're in together
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IT demands the ball from Jimmer. I remember a play during the Knicks game where Jimmer was given the ball after a rebound and IT ran back almost from Half Court and faced Jimmer at about the free throw line for the ball. It was probably nothing, but it struck me as a bit odd. Normally, if you were already that far up the floor you would let another guard bring the ball up and then let them pass it to you in the backcourt. Nobody was back for pressure and a Center was back as well, so it's not like Jimmer was going to be hassled. Jimmer of course gave up the ball, but I thought it was a just a bit odd at the time.
 
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Npliam

Starter
#64
#64
Glenn said:
What I "saw" was that Jimmer lost his confidence when IT came in. That may have a lot to do with the fact Jimmer didn't have his hands on the ball as much. Then again, maybe we are making too much about nothing. I really don't want Jimmer on the court with IT as that also implies he'll be in the court with Rudy and Cuz and I don't have a clue how that's supposed to work out. The sg has no offensive roll with IT, cuz, and Rudy. Heck, there barely are enough shots to go around with Cuz and Rudy and IT so why add Jimmer? It certainly isn't for his defensive prowess.
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Jimmer didn't lose confidence. There was just no possible way for him to keep up what he had just done. He scored like 15 points and had acouple of assists in 6 minutes. That type of production is unsustainable. At that rate he would score 120 points and have 16 assists a game....by himself. Jimmer scored 6 points in the 4th I think when he was playin g with IT.

FWIW I don't think Jimmer and IT should play more than 5-7 minutes a game depending on match-up but I do think Jimmer should take about 10 of IT's minutes from him with the starting unit.
 
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Toasty

Guest
#65
#65
Jimmer needs to push the ball up court faster and give the defense more to think about. He waits for the defense to come to him.
 
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treach1976

Bench
#66
#66
Toasty said:
Jimmer needs to push the ball up court faster and give the defense more to think about. He waits for the defense to come to him.
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I don't see this... Actually, interesting stat from the new advanced analytics piece on NBA.com, around speed and distance... Jimmer actually moves faster and covers more distance than IT. Now, I know this is subject to WIDE interpretation that I would love to here... It's probably driven by IT's tendency to hold onto the ball for long periods of time at the end of quarters / shot clock, etc. to get his shot off so may not make my point, but interesting nonetheless. Screen Shot 2014-02-14 at 5.10.49 PM.png
 
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Toasty

Guest
#67
#67
That us because he gets rid of the ball early...then gets it back too late to run anything significant. He has to hit the offense as soon as he gets over half court.
 
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Npliam

Starter
#68
#68
treach1976 said:
I don't see this... Actually, interesting stat from the new advanced analytics piece on NBA.com, around speed and distance... Jimmer actually moves faster and covers more distance than IT. Now, I know this is subject to WIDE interpretation that I would love to here... It's probably driven by IT's tendency to hold onto the ball for long periods of time at the end of quarters / shot clock, etc. to get his shot off so may not make my point, but interesting nonetheless. View attachment 4813
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I am pretty sure Jimmer would beat IT in a foot race.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#70
#70
VF21 said:
Um... I've been as positive about Jimmer as any Kings fan on this forum, but even I can't cosign that one.
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Strangely enough, at the combine, for what its worth, Jimmer posted a 3.21 seconds in the full court dash, and IT posted a 3.14. Which is pretty close. IT looks quicker because of his ballhandling ability, which allows him to get where ever he wants. Or at least that's my theory.
 
Hadlowe

Hadlowe

Starter
#71
#71
bajaden said:
Strangely enough, at the combine, for what its worth, Jimmer posted a 3.21 seconds in the full court dash, and IT posted a 3.14. Which is pretty close. IT looks quicker because of his ballhandling ability, which allows him to get where ever he wants. Or at least that's my theory.
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IT's handle allows him better change of pace/direction moves in the half-court.

DraftExpress says that Isaiah ran a 3.96 three quarter court while Jimmer had the 3.21 you have above. That has to be bad data from DraftExpress as that would put IT as one of the slowest end to end players in the league. John Wall's combine score had a 3.14 sprint. I would be fairly surprised if IT was as quick end to end as John Wall.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#72
#72
Hadlowe said:
IT's handle allows him better change of pace/direction moves in the half-court.

DraftExpress says that Isaiah ran a 3.96 three quarter court while Jimmer had the 3.21 you have above. That has to be bad data from DraftExpress as that would put IT as one of the slowest end to end players in the league. John Wall's combine score had a 3.14 sprint. I would be fairly surprised if IT was as quick end to end as John Wall.
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Draft express also had Monta Ellis as the worst athlete in his draft class and JJ Redick having a bigger vertical than Andre Iggy.
 
T

treach1976

Bench
#74
#74
Npliam said:
Jimmer didn't lose confidence. There was just no possible way for him to keep up what he had just done. He scored like 15 points and had acouple of assists in 6 minutes. That type of production is unsustainable. At that rate he would score 120 points and have 16 assists a game....by himself. Jimmer scored 6 points in the 4th I think when he was playin g with IT.

FWIW I don't think Jimmer and IT should play more than 5-7 minutes a game depending on match-up but I do think Jimmer should take about 10 of IT's minutes from him with the starting unit.
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I like when Tetsujin used to make the Jimmer/Chuck Norris jokes. This reminded me of those. :D
 
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Npliam

Starter
#75
#75
Hadlowe said:
IT's handle allows him better change of pace/direction moves in the half-court.

DraftExpress says that Isaiah ran a 3.96 three quarter court while Jimmer had the 3.21 you have above. That has to be bad data from DraftExpress as that would put IT as one of the slowest end to end players in the league. John Wall's combine score had a 3.14 sprint. I would be fairly surprised if IT was as quick end to end as John Wall.
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So......I was right.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#76
#76
andremiller07 said:
Draft express also had Monta Ellis as the worst athlete in his draft class and JJ Redick having a bigger vertical than Andre Iggy.
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It's not like those are DraftExpress's numbers. They're the NBA combine numbers, DX is just the one site that collates them and puts them up.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#81
#81
They have him listed twice one at 3.96 and one at 3.14. I'd bet all I have it is 3.14. I would then bet all I will ever have that jimmer could not beat IT in a foot race.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#82
#82
Entity said:
They have him listed twice one at 3.96 and one at 3.14. I'd bet all I have it is 3.14. I would then bet all I will ever have that jimmer could not beat IT in a foot race.
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Name the distance. :) I've been lurking on this conversation as I believe it teaches us that if it is on the internet, it isn't necessarily true. Gasp! Shock!
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#84
#84
bajaden said:
Strangely enough, at the combine, for what its worth, Jimmer posted a 3.21 seconds in the full court dash, and IT posted a 3.14. Which is pretty close. IT looks quicker because of his ballhandling ability, which allows him to get where ever he wants. Or at least that's my theory.
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Quicker first steps. Useful.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#86
#86
bajaden said:
Strangely enough, at the combine, for what its worth, Jimmer posted a 3.21 seconds in the full court dash, and IT posted a 3.14. Which is pretty close. IT looks quicker because of his ballhandling ability, which allows him to get where ever he wants. Or at least that's my theory.
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Derek Williams was a 3.23 he is right there with jimmer.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#87
#87
Hadlowe said:
Bizarre. I just checked it again and it still shows 3.96.
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OK, I've kind of figured this out. There are three different entries for Isaiah Thomas in the DX database for 2011. The whole shebang is listed here: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements.php

If you sort by year (2011) and camp = NBA Draft Combine, you'll see that IT ran the sprint in 3.14. However if you sort by camp = Nets Workout, he ran it in 3.96...but it was a different sprint because the absolute fastest time was 3.78 and most people were over 4 seconds. Apples to apples!

Now, why DX has that particular Nets measurement on IT's main page instead of the Draft Combine, I have no idea.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#88
#88
Hadlowe said:
IT's handle allows him better change of pace/direction moves in the half-court.

DraftExpress says that Isaiah ran a 3.96 three quarter court while Jimmer had the 3.21 you have above. That has to be bad data from DraftExpress as that would put IT as one of the slowest end to end players in the league. John Wall's combine score had a 3.14 sprint. I would be fairly surprised if IT was as quick end to end as John Wall.
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I think I said something about his ballhandling. DraftExpress actually posted two different times for IT, both of which I thought were off, but I went with the quicker of the two to give IT the benefit of the doubt. IT is a good athlete, but he's not an extreme athlete like Wall is.
 
Hadlowe

Hadlowe

Starter
#89
#89
bajaden said:
I think I said something about his ballhandling. DraftExpress actually posted two different times for IT, both of which I thought were off, but I went with the quicker of the two to give IT the benefit of the doubt. IT is a good athlete, but he's not an extreme athlete like Wall is.
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Yeah. I thought I was pointing out something important about his handle, but I have no idea what it was.
 
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