2014 Draft Prospects:

MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#421
#421
Oh yea, a few notes on WCS -

I may be the last remaining Cal fan on the planet, but I get so frustrated with how he plays Cauley-Stein. He'll start one game, come off the bench in the next, play 30 minutes one night, play 10 the next .. Subbing him in and out at random times, etc. It's frustrating to watch and makes it a little harder to evaluate what his real numbers look like. He has more games where he plays under 20 minutes than over 30.

Now, I can't blame Cal as much as I want to because WCS has that sickle cell trait blood disorder that apparently hinders his endurance, so while there may be no bigger WCS fan than myself .. I wonder how much this will effect his draft status. I'm sure all the GM's know about it already, but come draft time these issues pop up again as people will look for any little thing to put one player over another.

And lets say we do draft WCS - I wonder how reliable he'll be. At what point does Vonleh become the smarter, safer pick?
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#422
#422
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
After watching Randle about 10x this year, I can't help but feel like something is missing there. I don't know what it is. I can't put my finger on it, but I'm not overly impressed. He doesn't feel like a can't miss prospect. Good player, Paul Milsap level seems a little more appropriate than multiple time all-star I'd certainly take Embiid or Wiggins over him at this point.
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I don't disagree! I think Randle is going to be a good NBA player, and probably more in the Randolph mode than in the Milsap one. He's a very physical player like Randloph, and is similar size with a similar game. Nothing wrong with that either, if that happens to be his ceiling. But I have Vonleh ahead of him now.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#423
#423
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
Oh yea, a few notes on WCS -

I may be the last remaining Cal fan on the planet, but I get so frustrated with how he plays Cauley-Stein. He'll start one game, come off the bench in the next, play 30 minutes one night, play 10 the next .. Subbing him in and out at random times, etc. It's frustrating to watch and makes it a little harder to evaluate what his real numbers look like. He has more games where he plays under 20 minutes than over 30.

Now, I can't blame Cal as much as I want to because WCS has that sickle cell trait blood disorder that apparently hinders his endurance, so while there may be no bigger WCS fan than myself .. I wonder how much this will effect his draft status. I'm sure all the GM's know about it already, but come draft time these issues pop up again as people will look for any little thing to put one player over another.

And lets say we do draft WCS - I wonder how reliable he'll be. At what point does Vonleh become the smarter, safer pick?
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I don't think the sickle cell disorder is a factor. There are games where Stein plays significant minutes with no apparent effect. Calapari tends to jerk players in and out of the lineup quite a bit. Sometimes due to fatigue, sometimes do to foul trouble, something Stein is guilty of at times, and sometimes because their not playing the way he wants them to. He used to jerk Poythress in and out a lot last season. But I'm no doctor, so who knows. However, I'd take Vonleh over Stein right now. Vonleh looks like a two way player, and that makes him more valuable. He's rawer (if that's a word) than Cauley-Stein, but has a bigger upside. He's just as good a rebounder right now, and has a very nice outside jumpshot. All he needs is experience.
 
Hallama

Hallama

Starter
#424
#424
WCS had a great game. ESPN guys were saying how Cal knows right away if WCS is engaged in the game or not, and last game he was. Could explain his inconsistent minutes.
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#425
#425
A few games from minor defensive-minded prospects, who could be rotation players in the League:
Josh Huestis 30min, 9p (4-7 2p%, 1-2 FT%), 5reb, 2ast, 4 stl, 1bl, 1 TO in a 80-69 road win over another fringe PAC-12 contender California,
Okaro White 36min, 15p (3-5 2p%, 0-1 3p%, 9-9 FT%), 8reb, 3ast, 1stl, 2bl, 0TO in rout of Virginia Tech, bottom ACC team,
Xavier Thames 27min, 23p (2-3 2p%, 3-4 3p%, 10-11 FT% for TS% of 95.8!!! :D), 3reb, 2ast, 1stl, 5TO in a tough toad win vs Boise State. I know, 2 assists and 5 TOs doesn't sound like NBA PG, but that's how San Diego State plays: a lot of attacking the basket, not a lot of creating for their teammates (204 assists and 203 TOs this season) and it works for #5 team in the country with 20-1 record, plus they start another ballhandler next to him, and Thames had only 30 TOs in 20 games before this one.
 
F

fanop

Bench
#427
#427
Gilles said:
A few games from minor defensive-minded prospects, who could be rotation players in the League:
Josh Huestis 30min, 9p (4-7 2p%, 1-2 FT%), 5reb, 2ast, 4 stl, 1bl, 1 TO in a 80-69 road win over another fringe PAC-12 contender California,
Okaro White 36min, 15p (3-5 2p%, 0-1 3p%, 9-9 FT%), 8reb, 3ast, 1stl, 2bl, 0TO in rout of Virginia Tech, bottom ACC team,
Xavier Thames 27min, 23p (2-3 2p%, 3-4 3p%, 10-11 FT% for TS% of 95.8!!! :D), 3reb, 2ast, 1stl, 5TO in a tough toad win vs Boise State. I know, 2 assists and 5 TOs doesn't sound like NBA PG, but that's how San Diego State plays: a lot of attacking the basket, not a lot of creating for their teammates (204 assists and 203 TOs this season) and it works for #5 team in the country with 20-1 record, plus they start another ballhandler next to him, and Thames had only 30 TOs in 20 games before this one.
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Arby's Roast Beef said:
Xavier Thames is basically a 6'3" Jamal Crawford.
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Xavier Thames is actually a hometown player. A 4 star recruit with a grade of 88 on espn.

The only other recent Sacramento player ranked that high was Josiah Turner who ranked #1 in the state with a 5 star ranking.. too bad he messed up his career. Tons of potential, but wasted. Currently in the D-League
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#428
#428
Arby's Roast Beef said:
Xavier Thames is basically a 6'3" Jamal Crawford.
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Well, if you only watch offense, and even then he's much more aggressive, getting to the line a lot. Then you go the other way, and he's the first line of one of the best defenses in the country. So
1. Plays defense
2. Gets the ball to the open teammate
3. Excellent shooter
4. Draws fouls
Thames is no Rondo, but he also doesn't need the ball to be effective. Again this is college, both athletic and experienced team with a good coach, so Thames might just have found the perfect place in his senior year (he didn't look special for 3 years), but he looks like the guy, you want next to Cousins/Gay, he's ready to play and is likely to be undrafted FA, so all it takes is a place on a Summer League roster.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#429
#429
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
Oh yea, a few notes on WCS -

I may be the last remaining Cal fan on the planet, but I get so frustrated with how he plays Cauley-Stein. He'll start one game, come off the bench in the next, play 30 minutes one night, play 10 the next .. Subbing him in and out at random times, etc. It's frustrating to watch and makes it a little harder to evaluate what his real numbers look like. He has more games where he plays under 20 minutes than over 30.

Now, I can't blame Cal as much as I want to because WCS has that sickle cell trait blood disorder that apparently hinders his endurance, so while there may be no bigger WCS fan than myself .. I wonder how much this will effect his draft status. I'm sure all the GM's know about it already, but come draft time these issues pop up again as people will look for any little thing to put one player over another.

And lets say we do draft WCS - I wonder how reliable he'll be. At what point does Vonleh become the smarter, safer pick?
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I'd be surprised if Vonleh isn't ranked higher than WCS on most boards. I think Vonleh has been the smarter, safer pick for a while now.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#431
#431
Kingster said:
I'd be surprised if Vonleh isn't ranked higher than WCS on most boards. I think Vonleh has been the smarter, safer pick for a while now.
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Vonleh has two way potential, and that makes him a better prospect. Right now, Cauley-Stein is the better defender, and he should be. He has more experience. I'd certainly take Vonleh over Stein, but I won't turn down Stein if he's only one left
 
R

randymoss1881

Starter
#436
#436
Tetsujin said:
Considering what the old dude reputedly said, I probably would have done more than just shove the bastard. Also that lady clapping in his face is a bit of female dog.
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It doesn't matter if this is how he reacts to talk then you don't draft him over Ennis cause players will eat him alive on the court.

So what would have happen if the old man wasn't an old man but a student who was in pretty good shape. He would have hit marcus back and then you have a palace fight again. You don't hit a fan under any circumstance.
 
F

fanop

Bench
#437
#437
Tetsujin said:
Considering what the old dude reputedly said, I probably would have done more than just shove the bastard. Also that lady clapping in his face is a bit of female dog.
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Many speculation that it was a racist slur, or some type of racist comment. I'd like to see Smart's side of the story because if the guy really said something racist, then he deserved it. But that fan looks like a pig.. the way he reacted after was like it was all fun in games.. not sure on this one. However, it was a bad reaction by Smart...

oh and I just found this video floating around espn comments.. it's the same exact fan... who flipped off an A&M player 4 years ago.. I think he's a little messed up in the head. Judge for yourself
 
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S

SacKings2002NBAChampions

Guest
#438
#438
Smart is crossed off my list
We don't need another idiot in the lineup
We have one troublemaker already and a wanna be trouble maker in IT
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#439
#439
SacKings2002NBAChampions said:
Smart is crossed off my list
We don't need another idiot in the lineup
We have one troublemaker already and a wanna be trouble maker in IT
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I'm not a big fan of Smart's, but I don't think he should be condemned over this incident. Up to now, he's been a model citizen. He's had nothing but good reviews from his coaches and his teammates. He hasn't been playing well lately, and I think it was a matter of frustration and whatever the fan said. No doubt, he shouldn't have done it. You don't get into physical altercations with fan's regardless of what they say. But I think he deserves a little slack. I'm sure he's very regretful. I also doubt that it'll affect his draft status.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#444
#444
Gilles said:
Kings already have Mateen Cleaves in their draft history.
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Come on, that's not a fair comparison. Ennis has looked very good, and looks more like a legit PG than just about any other college PG. The only knock on him is that he's not as quick as some of the others. But he has no problem getting where he wants on the court. He's excellent with change of speed and hesitation moves. He's more crafty than quick, but by no means is he Vasquez slow or unathletic.
 
F

fanop

Bench
#445
#445
Hallama said:
Still not convinced Ennis will be a solid to good pro, but that shot saved their undefeated season - supa' clutch, good on him.
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I think he's one of the slower paced pgs. He's not as flashy as all these other combo guards, but I think in the pros as a starter, he'll be able to get it done. I think he can have a solid career depending on which team drafts him.
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#446
#446
bajaden said:
Come on, that's not a fair comparison. Ennis has looked very good, and looks more like a legit PG than just about any other college PG. The only knock on him is that he's not as quick as some of the others. But he has no problem getting where he wants on the court. He's excellent with change of speed and hesitation moves. He's more crafty than quick, but by no means is he Vasquez slow or unathletic.
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I know, it's not a fair comparison. That was just a reaction to "need a winner" comment.
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#447
#447
bajaden said:
Come on, that's not a fair comparison. Ennis has looked very good, and looks more like a legit PG than just about any other college PG. The only knock on him is that he's not as quick as some of the others. But he has no problem getting where he wants on the court. He's excellent with change of speed and hesitation moves. He's more crafty than quick, but by no means is he Vasquez slow or unathletic.
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Interesting stat about Ennis. Yesterday when he turned the ball over with just under 4 minutes to go, it was his FIRST turn over of the year in the final 5 minutes of a game.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#449
#449
Telemachus said:
Interesting stat about Ennis. Yesterday when he turned the ball over with just under 4 minutes to go, it was his FIRST turn over of the year in the final 5 minutes of a game.
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One of his pluses. He doesn't turn the ball over much. He just has a good feel for the game, and makes good decisions. There has been some great PG's that lacked the athleticism you'd normally expect from great players. I'm probably not going to put this well, and some will misinterpret my meaning, but I think there's a tendency to focus, with tunnel vision at times, on the issue that concerns us the most when judging a player. As a result, we exclude, or downgrade too severely, because of that bias. When we place to much emphasis on just one aspect of a players game, it can blind us to what he can do.

Right now, two traits seem to be at the forefront on the forum. Defense, and to a lesser degree, athleticism. Certainly both are important traits, but I don't think you should automatically exclude players without looking at their entire game, and their possible overall fit. I'm a huge believer in defense, but I look at defense as a team concept more than an individual concept. I'm walking a fine line here, because individually, you still have to do your part in team defense. But my point is, that you might not have the individual ability to guard your opposition one on one in isolation, but within the team concept, you might excel. I've said many times, that if I have to choose between a player that lacks athleticism, but is very skilled and has good BBIQ, and a player that's a great athlete, but lacks skills and BBIQ, I'll take the skilled player 90% of the time. Yes, I do make exceptions, but its based on the individual. In general, I just don't like generalizations. I don't like lumping a player into a group because he resembles a previous player. When you do that, you take out the human element. It's hard to measure a players heart along with his capacity to learn.

I think a players critic's raise their level of expectation to match a players press clippings coming out of highschool. The more highly touted a player is, the higher the bar is set. Which, isn't really fair. Personally, I haven't seen a player in some time, more ready to step into the NBA and contribute right away as Parker is. I watch him play, and look at all the little things he does. The way he moves with confidence. The on court decisions he makes, and I see an NBA player. And yet, I see people nit picking him. Pointing out every mistake or flaw they can find. And it confuses me. This is an 18 year old kid, who looks like he's ready to step into the NBA right now. Not many players at that age can say that. Of course he has flaws! He's frigging 18 years old. When I was 18 I didn't have a clue who the hell I was or what I wanted to do with my life. I spent most of my time arguing with someone and getting into trouble. So, getting back to Ennis. If not for Embiid, Parker, Exum, Wiggins, Smart, Randle, etc, in a normal year, Ennis would be in the discussion for being a top 3 pick. Along with looking at potential baseed on athleticism and skill level, I think its important to look at results. Ennis is the PG and leader on an undefeated team that's ranked number one in the nation. That has to count for something, even if it is Syracuse. Damm!
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#450
#450
Not sure how I feel about PDA personally attending the Syracuse game as I guess I am ambivalent about those prospects. But they are the prospects who will be there in our probable range
 
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